Koh Tao murder suspects retract confessions: 'interpreter assaulted us'

[dieseldave1951]

Lies! This was a perfect police investigation and you farrangs just need time to understand.

Happiness in the Kingdom now sits at 120% and corruption has been eradicated.

Love live the Generalissimo

[smutcakes]

"No No Dummy, you did it this way not that way"!!

You have to wonder why if they were going to select a random street vendor as a translator they selected this one. There are 1000's of Burmese on KT, so there must be some who speak these two's dialects.

This street vendor sells rotti in Samui, not KT, so perhaps he has been a well known pliable 'assistant' for police in some cases.

[Baerboxer]

I still cannot get over how so little has been made internationally of the 'interpreter' and the pictures of him selling Rotti's.

It seems strange given the tragedy of the circumstances, but i still cant help having a little snigger at the pictures of him in his day job, and then donned in a police shirt informing the accused how they committed the crimes.

Its so surreal that if someone informed you of it, you would think they were certified. Not to mention the fact that apparently he does not even speak the same language as the accused.

It would seem a very odd choice of interpreter, unless he does this regularly for the police.

I read he's a Rohingya. In which case he may not be to fond of Burmese given their normal treatment of his people. Is he also an expert in the particular dialect the 2 suspects speak?

There are large amounts of Burmese on the Island.Surely a more appropriate translator, maybe one who does this professionally, could have been found?

Or, perhaps he was used for his particular skill set?

Another oddity in this case of oddities.

[A1Str8]

OMG what are we going to do now? The truth has come out. We lost face ain't we?

[mihalis]

where are the pics, showing their beaten bodies, tortured, etc........... Not once, has a pic been spread thru social media, yet, everyone who has no clue of the truth, states they were........

[Pattaya46]

"No No Dummy, you did it this way not that way"!!

A single image extracted from its context often can say anything you want it to say... A popular Internet game

Now go look the full video, and see how wrong your comment is.

[shawndoc]

Has more come out on the DNA testing? I remember originally they said it was sent to Singapore for the analysis. The reason I ask, is that means some of the original DNA might still be in the Singapore lab outside of the BIBs reach, that would give a true sample to test against.

Wouldn't hold out too much optimism. Singapore could only have what RTP labeled and sent.

But that was long before the Burmese got fingered.

[Suffinator]

The way this is going the only death penalty that will be applied is to that of Tourism. Well the Thais remain convinced they can live in isolation from the rest of the world and don't need any outside investment or influence.

Let them have what they want and see how long it takes before the economy collapses ... let's face it with a GDP declining by the day it's heading that way.

As for me... I did the only decent thing a human being can do... I left for I will not be responsible for spending money in a country that is truly despicable and cares for nothing other than what they can gain financially. It's a pity the rest of the expat community doesn't do the same and finally bring Thailand to its knees.

[templedog]

I'm usually an optimist. However we got to consider one major fact: it became a national THAI affair and it may have been brought up to the political level. My point is, once "politics" takes over, it's all set. You can rig, fake, manipulate and do whatever the hell you want to. That's the basic ABC of politics. Get over it! It's fact.

Is it in their interest to consult the public and speak out the true facts? Of course not. There are some things going on the background we don't know of and we might never going to know, because it's classified, diplomatic talks. It's in their interest to calm the public and give them whatever they want to hear. The people want to see results and thus the officials are under pressure. So that's what they give to us. Not the truth, but something we might want to hear.

You really think the Thai officials let the Brits stroll in and hand them everything on the silver platter? I think they (Thais) must've sent out a clear sign through diplomatic channels NOT to snoop around too much- politely. Or without sounding like a "conspiracy" guy, they set out a deal. You guys come in, let media go along with you. We're all fine.

Thai to Brits: "Let's not jeopardise our relationship because of SUCH MATTER" or as usually go hard rock solid:

"We have found some British spies, convicted criminals, and illegal activities by your citizens in Kingdom of Thailand. Maybe we have some more information about the Royal Navy, nasty child abduction business etc"

The Brit goes: "Ok, ok, ok, you got us. We still want your rice for cheap price. We like Thai pussy and it seems you've got some more cards on the table right now... We just going to send some investigators... make it look all look legit. Let's settle this as quickly as possible. We have to re-align our assets from vote-rigging on the Scottish independency... We're still busy"

Politics is far more what you see and hear on TV

Jonde,

You and I are on the same page concerning what goes on behind closed doors.............however, I hate this page.

[retarius]

Let the evidence speak for itself I say, I have no doubt they have been assaulted in police custody but I do worry sometimes about people rushing to conclusions about their complete lack of involvement in the crime.

The DNA evidence is the key to the whole case and getting it checked again is going to be the decisive factor

Isn't the interpreter just some local pancake seller?

Agree...but the plod's role has been downgraded...see as observers, they will be able to see the results of the DNA analysis but not to have a UK lab replicate the results or take DNA from the suspects to compare with samples from the bodies back home.

[iReason]

The "interpreter" initially used by police turned out to be a local food vendor of Rohingya descent, not a professional.

Just like the police, not professional at all.

This is all over the BBC this morning. More of Thailand's reputation in tatters. Not that Thailand had a good reputation to begin with.

This 'perfect job' by the RTP is seriously starting to unravel. How long before we see some RTP charged with coverup and destroying evidence? Follow the money. See who paid out and received large sums of money since Sept 15.

"This 'perfect job' by the RTP is seriously starting to unravel."

And Scotland Yard has not even arrived yet...

[stephen terry]

Incidentally BBC World Television is covering the story that the suspects have retracted their confessions etc.

Apparently so and if I've got it right of Rohingya descent which could see him conveniently deported. I'm not sure if his status here was ever explained.

The suspects and staff from the Myanmar Embassy said he couldn't speak the suspects dialect and since they are Buddhists and he's Muslim there's no love lost.

Depending on where this all goes it could be interesting to hear how the BIB justify his use.

They will have a very difficult time justifying his use, and this presents a big problem for the prosecutor because it is one of several factors that will make it difficult for the prosecutor to persuade the judge(s) and the courtroom observers that the accused men's original confessions were reliable "beyond a reasonable doubt".

The defense lawyer should be able to call the translator as a witness for all to observe in court, and the defense lawyer will argue and present evidence in support of the following:

• The translator was not registered or licensed as an official translator (which in another Thai case I recently read about--British businessman in Pattaya--made the confession inadmissible ... albeit after he spent a long time in prison on what he says were trumped up charges)
• The translator's entire existence and livelihood on Koh Tao (and probably in Thailand) depended on the local authorities, so if they were unhappy with his "translation" he stood to lose everything
• The translator was the only person in the room who spoke Arakanese other than the suspects; so he is the only witness as to what the two accused men said that day
• Since there is no video or audio of the confessions, the translator's own paraphrasing and translation from Arakanese to Thai (neither of which is his original language) is the only evidence of the confessions
• There is a long-running conflict between members of the translator's ethnic group and that of the accused
• For the reasons stated above, the translator is an inherently unreliable witness, and therefore his translation of the confessions is unreliable
• For all of these reasons and more, there is a reasonable doubt as to whether the confessions are reliable.

The defense lawyer will also be able to question the translator regarding everything he witnessed surrounding the arrest, interrogation, re-enactment etc.

I think this, along with the potential unreliability of all of his other key evidence, is why the prosecutor has sent the file back to the police for more circumstantial evidence to support his case in court.

I agree with you so very much and during my time in Hong Kong there was never a thought about using an interpreter who was not officially certified.

The stumbling block here could be if the suspects decide to plead guilty, for whatever reason, and evidence doesn't need to be produced and tested in court.

What if the judge is only too happy to go with the Guilty plea and doesn't ask questions ?

With no cross examination available the defence can only present mitigation and allude to things without going too far and being criticised, maybe. In some jurisdictions the judge would ask " why are you pleading guilty then ? "

As they have retracted by way of a signed statement sent to the prosecutor, it is now a 'not guilty' plea. The prosecutor needs enough evidence (factual and circumstantial) to support the charges before he will send it to trial. This evidence will now be without any admission of guilt. The judge(s) will review the revised evidence submitted and reach a verdict on the charges. It has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt to secure a guilty verdict. If the B2 are found guilty (of the murder charge) the sentence will be the death penalty (most likely commuted to life imprisonment down the line).

As the Brit poIice will only be allowed observation access (at best) to the judicial process, it's pretty high stakes - and I wouldn't like to be in the B2's shoes.

Edited October 22, 2014 by stephen terry

[F4UCorsair]

This doesn't imply innocence or non involvement

Even convicted criminals with irrefutable, rock solid, evidence against them, plead their innocence of any wrongdoing.

Let this run its course. They may, of course, be not guilty, but equally they may be guilty.

I think it's the process that is there is the most concern about, and nobody wants to see two Iinnocent men swing in the name of expediency.

[HOOD Robin]

Guessing the police were hoping they'd commit suicide in prison, or at least wished for a fast-track trial. Tough on them and I hope it all comes out and destroys careers and KT tourism (until it's thoroughly cleansed).

I see Mr Kent's name mentioned again. Why? And why is he still ambassador even?

I bet the British bobbies are relishing working with the Thai police. I hope they are familiar with this place as it'll be easy to run them around if not. They'd be better off being chaperoned by the army. RTP should take a backseat or, better still, get out of the car!

" Guessing the police were hoping they'd commit suicide in prison, or at least wished for a fast-track trial. Tough on them and I hope it all comes out and destroys careers and KT tourism (until it's thoroughly cleansed). "

=> i'm afraid they will have "committed suicide" before the UK bobbies arrive here

" I see Mr Kent's name mentioned again. Why? And why is he still ambassador even? "

=> This Mr NOBODY should be sent to the coal mines in England !

" I bet the British bobbies are relishing working with the Thai police. I hope they are familiar with this place as it'll be easy to run them around if not. They'd be better off being chaperoned by the army. RTP should take a backseat or, better still, get out of the car! "

=> RTP asked in advance with the bobbies' WHERE- and WHAT abouts when they will be in the Kingdom.... That means the BLUEPRINT is already made in advance so there will be no tracks to be found for SY....

And without doubt they will receive the bobbs with their ooooh so famous smiles in Land of Scams...

[bannork]

WhizBang, on 22 Oct 2014 - 09:59, said:

Quote

The "interpreter" initially used by police turned out to be a local food vendor of Rohingya descent, not a professional.

Just like the police, not professional at all.

This is all over the BBC this morning. More of Thailand's reputation in tatters. Not that Thailand had a good reputation to begin with.

This 'perfect job' by the RTP is seriously starting to unravel. How long before we see some RTP charged with coverup and destroying evidence? Follow the money. See who paid out and received large sums of money since Sept 15.

I wonder, if this is what the RTP consider a "perfect job" what would they consider a "poor job." You also have to wonder how many "innocent" people have been jailed. in the past.

The Thai police said the case was complete <snip> in Thai, they never said it was perfect, that was poor translation.

Edited October 22, 2014 by metisdead
Thai language edited out of post. This is an English language forum, English is the only acceptable language, except in the Thai language forum where Thai language is allowed.

[heyexile]

Unfortunately, so many westerners, including many on this very forum, were calling for the murderers to be found quickly and sent to prison the next day. Even though in most foreign countries it takes time to find the suspects, here they are condemned for not finding the suspects next to the dead bodies. Because we live in a tourist area, they try to please the foreigners wishes and deliver results that are not correct, but expedient. Next time please give them some room to do their job.

Nothing to do with foreigners` wishes. It`s about Thai interests.

"Not saving Thailand`s face: the backlash of police corruption in tourist murders."

This is normal RTP procedure when tourists are killed by Thais. They find a non Thai scapegoat.

In the Kirsty Jones case, they grabbed a hill tribe guide guy. He reports that while police were torturing him, they said "This is for Thailand. It is your debt to Thailand for allowing you to live here. Your confession is for the greater good of the country."

Read the article, it`s fresh from yesterday and is a disturbing revelation of police procedures in the Koh Tao case and previous tourist murders in the kingdom. They only care about protecting influential Thais and the tourist buck.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/127509

[than]

After police torture, now the interpreter assault them, well strange defense for two murderer suspects......

[Bleacher Bum East]

Apparently so and if I've got it right of Rohingya descent which could see him conveniently deported. I'm not sure if his status here was ever explained.

The suspects and staff from the Myanmar Embassy said he couldn't speak the suspects dialect and since they are Buddhists and he's Muslim there's no love lost.

Depending on where this all goes it could be interesting to hear how the BIB justify his use.

They will have a very difficult time justifying his use, and this presents a big problem for the prosecutor because it is one of several factors that will make it difficult for the prosecutor to persuade the judge(s) and the courtroom observers that the accused men's original confessions were reliable "beyond a reasonable doubt".

The defense lawyer should be able to call the translator as a witness for all to observe in court, and the defense lawyer will argue and present evidence in support of the following:

• The translator was not registered or licensed as an official translator (which in another Thai case I recently read about--British businessman in Pattaya--made the confession inadmissible ... albeit after he spent a long time in prison on what he says were trumped up charges)
• The translator's entire existence and livelihood on Koh Tao (and probably in Thailand) depended on the local authorities, so if they were unhappy with his "translation" he stood to lose everything
• The translator was the only person in the room who spoke Arakanese other than the suspects; so he is the only witness as to what the two accused men said that day
• Since there is no video or audio of the confessions, the translator's own paraphrasing and translation from Arakanese to Thai (neither of which is his original language) is the only evidence of the confessions
• There is a long-running conflict between members of the translator's ethnic group and that of the accused
• For the reasons stated above, the translator is an inherently unreliable witness, and therefore his translation of the confessions is unreliable
• For all of these reasons and more, there is a reasonable doubt as to whether the confessions are reliable.

The defense lawyer will also be able to question the translator regarding everything he witnessed surrounding the arrest, interrogation, re-enactment etc.

I think this, along with the potential unreliability of all of his other key evidence, is why the prosecutor has sent the file back to the police for more circumstantial evidence to support his case in court.

I agree with you so very much and during my time in Hong Kong there was never a thought about using an interpreter who was not officially certified.

The stumbling block here could be if the suspects decide to plead guilty, for whatever reason, and evidence doesn't need to be produced and tested in court.

What if the judge is only too happy to go with the Guilty plea and doesn't ask questions ?

With no cross examination available the defence can only present mitigation and allude to things without going too far and being criticised, maybe. In some jurisdictions the judge would ask " why are you pleading guilty then ? "

As they have retracted by way of a signed statement sent to the prosecutor, it is now a 'not guilty' plea. The prosecutor needs enough evidence (factual and circumstantial) to support the charges before he will send it to trial. This evidence will now be without any admission of guilt. The judge(s) will review the revised evidence submitted and reach a verdict on the charges. It has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt to secure a guilty verdict. If the B2 are found guilty (of the murder charge) the sentence will be the death penalty (most likely commuted to life imprisonment down the line).

As the Brit poIice will only be allowed observation access (at best) to the judicial process, it's pretty high stakes - and I wouldn't like to be in the B2's shoes.

I'm not sure that's correct. Despite the not-guilty plea and retraction of the confession, I think that the prosecutor will still be able to introduce the confessions into evidence, although he would have a big challenge demonstrating the reliability of the confessions because the defense counsel would counter them in the way I described in my comment. I might be wrong, but unless the judge decides the confessions are so unreliable that they are not admissible into evidence, they will still be part of the case.

[dieseldave1951]

the only reason they would of commited suicide was the re-aliasion that there position was dire

I also belive tha that the RTP were so cock a hoop that they would easily scape goat these two, they did not feel the need to bump them off,and stage a murder or suicide,in detention,

The two defendants should by know now that the world has an interest in there plight

if they are innocent then they should be able to see a way out,

It is in Thailands intrest to make sure these boys are in the best of health as of now

the RTP and PM are going to recieve the biggest "loss of face ever imagined "som nam naa"

Hopefully when it all over there will be the biggest shake and reform of the RTP and immirgration in Thailands history, and not before time

This whole episode has got to big for Thailand , thank god for social media, i've no doubt that this over powered even the most 1 sided "i'm always wright" self opinionated people who grace dominant positions of authority

Guessing the police were hoping they'd commit suicide in prison, or at least wished for a fast-track trial. Tough on them and I hope it all comes out and destroys careers and KT tourism (until it's thoroughly cleansed).

I see Mr Kent's name mentioned again. Why? And why is he still ambassador even?

I bet the British bobbies are relishing working with the Thai police. I hope they are familiar with this place as it'll be easy to run them around if not. They'd be better off being chaperoned by the army. RTP should take a backseat or, better still, get out of the car!

[Alan Spitfire]

I'll get the popcorn then!

[NongKhaiKid]

# 132 it isn't a Not Guilty plea until said in court when asked " how do you plead ? " At best it's an indication they may plead Not Guilty and accused do change their mind before they actually appear.

I'm sure the BIB and ' interpreter ' have whispered n their ear they can avoid the death penalty by co-operating including a Guilty plea.

Now these confused young men may have lawyers saying they can get them off in a trial.

It's a nightmare.

[Bleacher Bum East]

Apparently so and if I've got it right of Rohingya descent which could see him conveniently deported. I'm not sure if his status here was ever explained.

The suspects and staff from the Myanmar Embassy said he couldn't speak the suspects dialect and since they are Buddhists and he's Muslim there's no love lost.

Depending on where this all goes it could be interesting to hear how the BIB justify his use.

They will have a very difficult time justifying his use, and this presents a big problem for the prosecutor because it is one of several factors that will make it difficult for the prosecutor to persuade the judge(s) and the courtroom observers that the accused men's original confessions were reliable "beyond a reasonable doubt".

The defense lawyer should be able to call the translator as a witness for all to observe in court, and the defense lawyer will argue and present evidence in support of the following:

• The translator was not registered or licensed as an official translator (which in another Thai case I recently read about--British businessman in Pattaya--made the confession inadmissible ... albeit after he spent a long time in prison on what he says were trumped up charges)
• The translator's entire existence and livelihood on Koh Tao (and probably in Thailand) depended on the local authorities, so if they were unhappy with his "translation" he stood to lose everything
• The translator was the only person in the room who spoke Arakanese other than the suspects; so he is the only witness as to what the two accused men said that day
• Since there is no video or audio of the confessions, the translator's own paraphrasing and translation from Arakanese to Thai (neither of which is his original language) is the only evidence of the confessions
• There is a long-running conflict between members of the translator's ethnic group and that of the accused
• For the reasons stated above, the translator is an inherently unreliable witness, and therefore his translation of the confessions is unreliable
• For all of these reasons and more, there is a reasonable doubt as to whether the confessions are reliable.

The defense lawyer will also be able to question the translator regarding everything he witnessed surrounding the arrest, interrogation, re-enactment etc.

I think this, along with the potential unreliability of all of his other key evidence, is why the prosecutor has sent the file back to the police for more circumstantial evidence to support his case in court.

I agree with you so very much and during my time in Hong Kong there was never a thought about using an interpreter who was not officially certified.

The stumbling block here could be if the suspects decide to plead guilty, for whatever reason, and evidence doesn't need to be produced and tested in court.

What if the judge is only too happy to go with the Guilty plea and doesn't ask questions ?

With no cross examination available the defence can only present mitigation and allude to things without going too far and being criticised, maybe. In some jurisdictions the judge would ask " why are you pleading guilty then ? "

Yes, it they plead guilty there may never be a trial with evidence produced on both sides.

A couple of weeks ago that was more problematic, because the two accused men Could Have (not saying they did) had motivations for pleading guilty (as well as confessing) that had nothing to do with actual guilt. For example, fear for their lives if they were released--e.g. IF somebody told them that if they did not confess and plead guilty, they would "disappear" and never be heard from again. As well as a total lack of understanding of the legal process and what was in store for them if they confessed and/or plead guilty.

But now they have competent defense lawyers who can explain their rights and the ramifications of pleading guilty to them, and probably have others who can provide some assurance that they will be provided safe passage if they are found innocent (together with the international spotlight, which provides some assurance on its own)---and the defense lawyers can at least attempt to convince them that they can trust for their safety if released.

So I think at this point, if they do actually plead guilty it would be more reliable (although maybe not completely reliable) than it would have been up until recently. People would have to judge the reliability of the guilty plea based on all the evidence circumstances surrounding it.

Just my opinion.

[stephen terry]

Unfortunately, so many westerners, including many on this very forum, were calling for the murderers to be found quickly and sent to prison the next day. Even though in most foreign countries it takes time to find the suspects, here they are condemned for not finding the suspects next to the dead bodies. Because we live in a tourist area, they try to please the foreigners wishes and deliver results that are not correct, but expedient. Next time please give them some room to do their job.

Nothing to do with foreigners` wishes. It`s about Thai interests.

"Not saving Thailand`s face: the backlash of police corruption in tourist murders."

This is normal RTP procedure when tourists are killed by Thais. They find a non Thai scapegoat.

In the Kirsty Jones case, they grabbed a hill tribe guide guy. He reports that while police were torturing him, they said "This is for Thailand. It is your debt to Thailand for allowing you to live here. Your confession is for the greater good of the country."

Read the article, it`s fresh from yesterday and is a disturbing revelation of police procedures in the Koh Tao case and previous tourist murders in the kingdom. They only care about protecting influential Thais and the tourist buck.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/127509

And one quote from this sends alarm bells ringing:-

"A court date would be set, then moved, then set again, we went through years of this before we got to today."

A last resort to bury this case, perhaps?

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to Bangkok Post has been removed:

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

These restrictions are put in place by the above publications, not Thaivisa.com
In rare cases, forum Administrators or the news team may use these sources under special permission.

[Carrerakiss]

I see the usual suspects are out in force with their usual anti thai tirades.

Happy to live out their life in a country they despise so much. Mind bogglingly ironic but most of the morons can't see beyond the cheap beers and even cheaper carnal comforts.

The uk sends police help when in its own backyard law and order, public safety etc still remains one of the top 3 concerns of the average Brit.

Recreational drug use , alcohol abuse and the violence fuelled by these scourges grows by the day. Victims of these scourges continue to go unheard, despite the presence of the wonderful British bobby... Spare me this unequivocal claptrap!

Lord Lucan remains at large, Stephen Lawrence's disgraceful murder was whitewashed and UK police institutional racism continues unchecked.

But hey keep watching your reruns of ' only fools and horses', wipe away the tears when you hear Jerusalem at last night of the proms.

Pitiable small minded hypocrites the lot of you

I got to page 4 before the apologists for Thailand came out. I live here as well, mate, and It's as plain as the nose on even YOUR face that this is a scapegoat investigation. How naive are you?

I can be equally critical of Australia and England issues of law and order, as have lived In both, but there is much wrong with this country, and we should be free to talk about It on this forum as long It Is objective.

I quite like Only Fools and Horses. It has so much more intellectual content that Makkam's post

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Stop believing that the embassy never does anything .

They have quite cleverly managed to get access for thr British police without annoying anyone in thailand. They have made their statements about the problems with the case quite firmly and diplomatically.

What would you like them to do? Send in thr SAS?

Not my country nor my business, but wasn't the "access" granted only after the General met with Cameron in UK,

without any involvment of the UK embassy?

I'm sure Cameron based his meet from information taken from the media........................

[TTom911]

Wasn't the interpreter a roti seller?

The so called interpreter potentially has a lot of answers as to how the ' confessions ' etc were obtained so let's hope he can be made available for any court hearings and just doesn't just ' disappear '. There are a couple on possible interpretations of this so I'll leave to members to decide as they see fit.

Incidentally BBC World Television is covering the story that the suspects have retracted their confessions etc.

Apparently so and if I've got it right of Rohingya descent which could see him conveniently deported. I'm not sure if his status here was ever explained.

The suspects and staff from the Myanmar Embassy said he couldn't speak the suspects dialect and since they are Buddhists and he's Muslim there's no love lost.

Depending on where this all goes it could be interesting to hear how the BIB justify his use.

They will have a very difficult time justifying his use, and this presents a big problem for the prosecutor because it is one of several factors that will make it difficult for the prosecutor to persuade the judge(s) and the courtroom observers that the accused men's original confessions were reliable "beyond a reasonable doubt".

The defense lawyer should be able to call the translator as a witness for all to observe in court, and the defense lawyer will argue and present evidence in support of the following:

• The translator was not registered or licensed as an official translator (which in another Thai case I recently read about--British businessman in Pattaya--made the confession inadmissible ... albeit after he spent a long time in prison on what he says were trumped up charges)
• The translator's entire existence and livelihood on Koh Tao (and probably in Thailand) depended on the local authorities, so if they were unhappy with his "translation" he stood to lose everything
• The translator was the only person in the room who spoke Arakanese other than the suspects; so he is the only witness as to what the two accused men said that day
• Since there is no video or audio of the confessions, the translator's own paraphrasing and translation from Arakanese to Thai (neither of which is his original language) is the only evidence of the confessions
• There is a long-running conflict between members of the translator's ethnic group and that of the accused
• For the reasons stated above, the translator is an inherently unreliable witness, and therefore his translation of the confessions is unreliable
• For all of these reasons and more, there is a reasonable doubt as to whether the confessions are reliable.

The defense lawyer will also be able to question the translator regarding everything he witnessed surrounding the arrest, interrogation, re-enactment etc.

I think this, along with the potential unreliability of all of his other key evidence, is why the prosecutor has sent the file back to the police for more circumstantial evidence to support his case in court.

VERY good points indeed !!

That's where, next to everyone else, the UK police, even with her "observer" status, can dig in and add some very important punch to the fight.

They here would laugh and walk over such "irrelevant small issues in their "perfect" (sic...!!!) case" and probably convict anyways if left alone ...

But, also with the authority of a reputable UK police force behind it, such "findings" would drill MASSIVE wholes into the (non) due process and gives hard evidence how botched that entire "perfect" investigation is...

And that BESIDE all the other huge factual issues ("lost" CCTV, really conclusive DNA?, really all suspects followed.......?, possible torture of the Myanmar guys, etc etc etc.... all"). I try to word it (too?) politely....

The RTB will get red ear's if they get all their own indisputable mess rubbed under their noses....

Edited October 22, 2014 by TTom911

[elektrified]

Wasn't the interpreter a roti seller?

The so called interpreter potentially has a lot of answers as to how the ' confessions ' etc were obtained so let's hope he can be made available for any court hearings and just doesn't just ' disappear '. There are a couple on possible interpretations of this so I'll leave to members to decide as they see fit.

Incidentally BBC World Television is covering the story that the suspects have retracted their confessions etc.

Apparently so and if I've got it right of Rohingya descent which could see him conveniently deported. I'm not sure if his status here was ever explained.

The suspects and staff from the Myanmar Embassy said he couldn't speak the suspects dialect and since they are Buddhists and he's Muslim there's no love lost.

Depending on where this all goes it could be interesting to hear how the BIB justify his use.

They will have a very difficult time justifying his use, and this presents a big problem for the prosecutor because it is one of several factors that will make it difficult for the prosecutor to persuade the judge(s) and the courtroom observers that the accused men's original confessions were reliable "beyond a reasonable doubt".

The defense lawyer should be able to call the translator as a witness for all to observe in court, and the defense lawyer will argue and present evidence in support of the following:

• The translator was not registered or licensed as an official translator (which in another Thai case I recently read about--British businessman in Pattaya--made the confession inadmissible ... albeit after he spent a long time in prison on what he says were trumped up charges)
• The translator's entire existence and livelihood on Koh Tao (and probably in Thailand) depended on the local authorities, so if they were unhappy with his "translation" he stood to lose everything
• The translator was the only person in the room who spoke Arakanese other than the suspects; so he is the only witness as to what the two accused men said that day
• Since there is no video or audio of the confessions, the translator's own paraphrasing and translation from Arakanese to Thai (neither of which is his original language) is the only evidence of the confessions
• There is a long-running conflict between members of the translator's ethnic group and that of the accused
• For the reasons stated above, the translator is an inherently unreliable witness, and therefore his translation of the confessions is unreliable
• For all of these reasons and more, there is a reasonable doubt as to whether the confessions are reliable.

The defense lawyer will also be able to question the translator regarding everything he witnessed surrounding the arrest, interrogation, re-enactment etc.

I think this, along with the potential unreliability of all of his other key evidence, is why the prosecutor has sent the file back to the police for more circumstantial evidence to support his case in court.

Sounds like you should be the guy doing the cross-examination of the translator!

[Oziex1]

Yeah, I agree with the posts above that Nom Sod doesn't look like a killer, but he very well could have been involved, hence the rush off the island. I figure it was Nom Sod and the other two in that photo that Sean took, the AC Bar mngr and the cop....they would have to stay on the island, but Nom Sod is better off skedaddling to BKK. It adds up.

Did you guys see the photo of the kid who detonated bombs at the Boston Marathon a few years back, did he look like a killer?

What does a killer look like?

[TTom911]

A post containing a link to Bangkok Post has been removed:

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

These restrictions are put in place by the above publications, not Thaivisa.com

In rare cases, forum Administrators or the news team may use these sources under special permission.

ok then....Amazing Thailand....

Edited October 22, 2014 by TTom911