Myanmar men plead not guilty to murder of British tourists on Koh Tao

[Doc46]

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

Scotland Yard spent only two hours on Koh Tao and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team.....Wow!! Great job Sherlock, then again what else could you have done? You were only there to observe the powerful and convincing evidence of the RTP. No wonder the family statement says the evidence APPEARS to be powerful and convincing.

I say it one more time, I will never believe in a million years the B2 are guilty unless I have seen independently (non-thai) verified DNA (if that is/was still possible). Nothing can change my mind, and definitively not a million posts from JD praising the RTP.

This case stinks too high heaven! So Sherlock, to end all this show the world your DNA findings! Just say you did independently verify the DNA from the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples and you will publish the result in due time. The fact that you didn't even meet them says it all.........you did not check the DNA, you accepted the RTP results. The B2 deserve better and so do their families!

.

Well the Thai investigation Chief said that Sherlock only could observe,,,So The Sherlocks should have stayed home and the UN should have worked together with the Thai investigation force. Now the Sherlocks can do <F<<K> ALL

[webfact]

UPDATE:

Koh Tao Murder Suspects Trial Set For 25 Feb
By Khaosod English


The two suspects in a prisoner's van outside Koh Samui court, 8 Dec 2014.

SURAT THANI – The trial of the two Burmese migrant workers accused of murdering two British backpackers in September has been set for 25 February 2015, after the two suspects plead not guilty in court.

The suspects, Zaw Lin and Win Phyo, were formally charged last Thursday with murdering David Miller, and raping and murdering Hannah Witheridge on the popular island of Koh Tao on 15 September.

Zaw and Win are also facing charges of illegally entering the Kingdom of Thailand, residing in Thailand without permission, and nighttime theft for allegedly stealing Miller's mobile phone and sunglasses.

Zaw and Win, both 21, plead not guilty in front of a judge at Koh Samui Court today. Upon hearing their plea, Judge Sunawin Suriyapan scheduled a preliminary evidence examination for 26 December, and said the formal trial would begin on 25 February of next year.

The pair’s defence lawyer, Nakhon Chomphuchart, said he would do his best to represent the suspects in the court, and expressed hope that the Thai justice system will "give fairness" to the two men.

"The charges brought against them by the prosecutor are very serious," Nakhon said, noting that if found guilty, his clients will most likely face death penalty.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1418036206


-- Khaosod English 2014-12-09

[steven100]

Thailand knows Burma cannot fight back diplomatically, that's why they are pushing case rapidly. Only solution is all Burmese labors should leave Thailand immediately for 3 months, so that all resorts and hotels should close down during the high season.

That will never happen as you know. They need there job to help support the family.

[siampolee]

This is a cut and paste of a post I made in another thread here on T.V

Might be an idea that might actually be followed in a normal society or even here to follow the same route as this controversial case in South Africa.

The evidence was considered very dubious and the judge took the right decision on the case maybe those pointers should or could be used here.

Shrien Dewani acquitted. Interesting to see the parallels in that case with this case concerning the horrific Koh Tao murders and the evidence offered by the police here.

Quote

Shrien Dewani has been cleared of playing any role in the "honeymoon murder" of his wife as a South African judge threw out the case against him and ruled that the prosecution case had been "riddled with contradictions".

http://www.independent.co.uk/

Edited December 9, 2014 by siampolee

[Dogmatix]

Since the 2B were charged with staying in the country without permission, I wonder why no one has been charged with the criminal offence of sheltering illegal immigrants. Also why no charges of working without work permits and corresponding charges for the owners of the AC Bar for employing workers without work permits?

Does the pancake man have a work permit to sell pancakes and exemption from the Royal Decree restricting working in retail shops to Thais? Does he have a work permit to work as an interpreter?

Edited December 9, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Dogmatix]

One of them has been charged with theft of David's sun glasses along with the famous phone that police reported finding in 4 different places. That is the first mention I have seen of the sun glasses, is this new evidence? We're the accused' finger prints found on the glasses?

[siampolee]

Dogmatix post # 131.

Since the 2B were charged with staying in the country without permission, I wonder why no one has been charged with the criminal offence of sheltering illegal immigrants. Also why no charges of working without work permits and corresponding charges for the owners of the AC Bar for employing workers without work permits?

Surely you are not suggesting that there is selectivity regarding the maintaining the law there on Koh Tao are you?

Ooop's forgot we are talking about activities on a private fiefdom.

No doubt those staunch supporters of the police farce force here will spring to the police farces forces defense and explain fully the reasons for such in action.

Then they no doubt, will expect us to believe the worth of the tales they spin too.

[HeijoshinCool]

"It is my understanding that the court wants to speed this up given its impact on tourism and international relations."

Ah, yes, let's not worry about the impact on the pursuit of justice, or the the accused, or the families of the victims. Let's worry about tourism and what other countries think of us.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

Scotland Yard spent only two hours on Koh Tao and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team.....Wow!! Great job Sherlock, then again what else could you have done? You were only there to observe the powerful and convincing evidence of the RTP. No wonder the family statement says the evidence APPEARS to be powerful and convincing.

I say it one more time, I will never believe in a million years the B2 are guilty unless I have seen independently (non-thai) verified DNA (if that is/was still possible). Nothing can change my mind, and definitively not a million posts from JD praising the RTP.

This case stinks too high heaven! So Sherlock, to end all this show the world your DNA findings! Just say you did independently verify the DNA from the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples and you will publish the result in due time. The fact that you didn't even meet them says it all.........you did not check the DNA, you accepted the RTP results. The B2 deserve better and so do their families!

.

That would be up to the defence to do, to verify their own DNA sampling.

Apparently the prosecution already have their evidence.

[asiamaster]

One of them has been charged with theft of David's sun glasses along with the famous phone that police reported finding in 4 different places. That is the first mention I have seen of the sun glasses, is this new evidence? We're the accused' finger prints found on the glasses?

Good that some new evidence has been mentioned, Now CSILA and the kind have something to conspire about again...

[Dogmatix]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

Scotland Yard spent only two hours on Koh Tao and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team.....Wow!! Great job Sherlock, then again what else could you have done? You were only there to observe the powerful and convincing evidence of the RTP. No wonder the family statement says the evidence APPEARS to be powerful and convincing.

I say it one more time, I will never believe in a million years the B2 are guilty unless I have seen independently (non-thai) verified DNA (if that is/was still possible). Nothing can change my mind, and definitively not a million posts from JD praising the RTP.

This case stinks too high heaven! So Sherlock, to end all this show the world your DNA findings! Just say you did independently verify the DNA from the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples and you will publish the result in due time. The fact that you didn't even meet them says it all.........you did not check the DNA, you accepted the RTP results. The B2 deserve better and so do their families!

.

That would be up to the defence to do, to verify their own DNA sampling.

Apparently the prosecution already have their evidence.

So the plods spent a generous 2 hours on Koh Tao? Did they find powerful and convincing evidence while drinking at the AC Bar?

I wonder how the spent the rest of their 10 day visit to Thailand. I hope they saved taxpayers' money by flying economy on Aeroflot or Biman Bangladesh Airlines. Now their bosses are conferring with the Thai police bosses on human trafficking in London. At least their barking up the right tree there. Thai police are experts on human trafficking,

[Dogmatix]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

Scotland Yard spent only two hours on Koh Tao and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team.....Wow!! Great job Sherlock, then again what else could you have done? You were only there to observe the powerful and convincing evidence of the RTP. No wonder the family statement says the evidence APPEARS to be powerful and convincing.

I say it one more time, I will never believe in a million years the B2 are guilty unless I have seen independently (non-thai) verified DNA (if that is/was still possible). Nothing can change my mind, and definitively not a million posts from JD praising the RTP.

This case stinks too high heaven! So Sherlock, to end all this show the world your DNA findings! Just say you did independently verify the DNA from the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples and you will publish the result in due time. The fact that you didn't even meet them says it all.........you did not check the DNA, you accepted the RTP results. The B2 deserve better and so do their families!

.

That would be up to the defence to do, to verify their own DNA sampling.

Apparently the prosecution already have their evidence.

So the plods spent a generous 2 hours on Koh Tao? Did they find powerful and convincing evidence while drinking at the AC Bar?

I wonder how the spent the rest of their 10 day visit to Thailand. I hope they saved taxpayers' money by flying economy on Aeroflot or Biman Bangladesh Airlines. Now their bosses are conferring with the Thai police bosses on human trafficking in London. At least they're barking up the right tree there. Thai police are experts on human trafficking,

[Dogmatix]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

Scotland Yard spent only two hours on Koh Tao and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team.....Wow!! Great job Sherlock, then again what else could you have done? You were only there to observe the powerful and convincing evidence of the RTP. No wonder the family statement says the evidence APPEARS to be powerful and convincing.

I say it one more time, I will never believe in a million years the B2 are guilty unless I have seen independently (non-thai) verified DNA (if that is/was still possible). Nothing can change my mind, and definitively not a million posts from JD praising the RTP.

This case stinks too high heaven! So Sherlock, to end all this show the world your DNA findings! Just say you did independently verify the DNA from the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples and you will publish the result in due time. The fact that you didn't even meet them says it all.........you did not check the DNA, you accepted the RTP results. The B2 deserve better and so do their families!

.

That would be up to the defence to do, to verify their own DNA sampling.

Apparently the prosecution already have their evidence.

So the plods spent a generous 2 hours on Koh Tao? Did they find powerful and convincing evidence while drinking at the AC Bar?

I wonder how the spent the rest of their 10 day visit to Thailand. I hope they saved taxpayers' money by flying economy on Aeroflot or Biman Bangladesh Airlines. Now their bosses are conferring with the Thai police bosses on human trafficking in London. At least they're barking up the right tree there. Thai police are experts on human trafficking,

Edited December 9, 2014 by Dogmatix

[falangjim]

It's really too bad that foreigners being held on crimes they allegedly committed in Thailand cannot be held in a facility for foreigners only, and away from the native population. Furthermore, it would be a requirement that the prison personnel would also be foreigners looking over them with Thai supervision, in order to ensure their incarceration time is represented according to the International human rights code. It is really too bad, because it is not a stretch of the imagination to understand that as long as foreigners are going to be anywhere near the Thai prison population that their lives are forfeit, and for a very small price, and at any whim. I believe this with absolute conviction.

Were this true, that these men could be held in a foreigner's only prison block, then I would be interested to see if they would be more apt to name names and things that were said to them, which... to all intents and purposes, I am absolutely convinced if they utter this information they are as good as dead.

I could only surmise this as the only answer to my question, "If these boys know something (and I am certain they do) then why on Earth aren't they telling us what they know?".

Answer: If they speak out of turn, they are as good as dead, and their untimely demise will be buried under the same load of malarkey that the two murdered kids were.

Thailand has tourist police... so why can't they demonstrate their sense of fairness and have tourist prisons and tourist guards?

Answer: Don;t need to answer. It is all too clear.

The B2 are not tourists. They were working here as foreigners, either illegally or legally.

[Joe Black]

I love the way most of the comments here are so selectively one sided..like the UK police spent only 2 hours on KT...but we know they met up with other UK police who had been staying on the island...

But lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story...as they say..

[mojorison]

One can only imagine the extreme agony being felt in the TAT office right now. I bet the news of the B2's 'not guilty' plea went down like a lead balloon. Just think of all the tourist baht at risk as a result of the trial being prolonged and not as wished, concluded today.

Actually, having the trial will likely help return the UK backpackers. Other nationalities seem not to have diminished.

Still plenty of British heading there but apparently less than before.

if you know such things shouldnt it be "here" rather than "there"

do you declare your stance on this matter to western tourist or expats?

someone of such strong convictions would surely be true to themselves.

to easy, just way to easy

Nope. "here" is Nakhon Nayok. "there" is Koh Tao.

"A few hundred yards away along Sairee beach, the main tourist drag on the Thai holiday island, life continues as normal. Business, says a French man running a dive shop – much of Koh Tao’s tourism is based around diving – is actually busier than expected for the monsoon season. “After the murders you did notice that there were fewer people for a bit. But it was only really the British that stayed away. With everyone else, they didn’t even really notice.”

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/23/briton-thailand-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-mystery-mafia-fear

Are you suggesting that quote bears authority? Utter nonsense.

[Dogmatix]

"It is my understanding that the court wants to speed this up given its impact on tourism and international relations."

Ah, yes, let's not worry about the impact on the pursuit of justice, or the the accused, or the families of the victims. Let's worry about tourism and what other countries think of us.

The primary concern for the diminishing tourist dollar is an overarching theme in this case that govt officials have no shame in articulating to media.

Another motive for rushing the trial is clearly to allow the defence as little time as possible to work on their case. Unlike the UK and US where prosecutors have to disclose all evidence including witness statements well before pleas have to be entered and the trial starts, in Thai trials this is not the case. The defence only sees a bare summary of the evidence and only sees the details as they are revealed in court. Even though this clearly grossly unfair, the normal rhythm of a Thai trial where hearings only take place one day a month for two years or so, provides a little bit of offset to this, as the defence gets more time to call its own witnesses and try to refute the prosecutors' evidence as it is revealed. Not disclosing the evidence and radically curtailing the time available to the defence combined with giving them limited access to their clients by denying bail which is routinely given to most Thai murder suspects is about as unfair as it gets.

Most likely the thrust of this is to pressure the accused to change their pleas and confess to some of the charges after the trial has started in the hope of reduced penalties. The defence lawyer has already hinted that this might be the case.

[AleG]

I love the way most of the comments here are so selectively one sided..like the UK police spent only 2 hours on KT...but we know they met up with other UK police who had been staying on the island...

But lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story...as they say..

Oh, it's better than just that, the same people that push every rumour, every half truth, every full lie, every wild theory, every unsupported accusation, insinuation and deduction is the same that then turns around, looks at the pile of inbred BS they have created and then declare that the investigation is a mess because there is so much inconsistencies in it.

[joebrown]

It's really too bad that foreigners being held on crimes they allegedly committed in Thailand cannot be held in a facility for foreigners only, and away from the native population. Furthermore, it would be a requirement that the prison personnel would also be foreigners looking over them with Thai supervision, in order to ensure their incarceration time is represented according to the International human rights code. It is really too bad, because it is not a stretch of the imagination to understand that as long as foreigners are going to be anywhere near the Thai prison population that their lives are forfeit, and for a very small price, and at any whim. I believe this with absolute conviction.

Were this true, that these men could be held in a foreigner's only prison block, then I would be interested to see if they would be more apt to name names and things that were said to them, which... to all intents and purposes, I am absolutely convinced if they utter this information they are as good as dead.

I could only surmise this as the only answer to my question, "If these boys know something (and I am certain they do) then why on Earth aren't they telling us what they know?".

Answer: If they speak out of turn, they are as good as dead, and their untimely demise will be buried under the same load of malarkey that the two murdered kids were.

Thailand has tourist police... so why can't they demonstrate their sense of fairness and have tourist prisons and tourist guards?

Answer: Don;t need to answer. It is all too clear.

The B2 are not tourists. They were working here as foreigners, either illegally or legally.

and they were paying the local police 500bht a month for the privelege of now being charged with illegal entry. Please read TV OP 5.10.2014 titled 'Koh Tao's other little secret..police corruption'.

[minikev]

Did anyone else read the statements from the parents of David and Hannah? They asked that we stopped sensationalizing and leave it to the evidence produced in the courts. I believe they deserve that after the pain they must be going through. I will watch with interest.

Good luck to the B2 if you are innocent! One way or the other this gruesome story will be over.

RIP Hannah and David.

[Lovekorat]

From a legal perspective this is now becoming an interesting case to follow, and there should be as many questions asked by the defence lawyers of the police as for the prosecution of the accused.

It appears from what information is available it is a defence lawyers paradise.

...was the crime scene secured, if not evidence is suspect and therefore not acceptable

...is the DNA found on Hannah independently verified, not acceptable if it isn't

...if the DNA from the accused was taken early why was there no match until the second attempt?

...how come the 4 different locations for the phone?

...why did the police state that 'no Thai' could possibly commit such a terrible crime ( I refer you to the rape and murder of a girl on a train recently, Thai man I believe)

....where is the missing CCTV footage?

...is there any evidence to be produced that ' could not have been planted or altered to suit the case'?

...exactly why was the case referred back, three times was it, to the police for 'fixing' by the prosecution service.

...and so on

If he is worth his title of lawyer he is able to rip this case to pieces unless there is irrefutable evidence.

And the whole investigation appears to be so badly handled I cannot see any evidence that could now be produced that could not be viewed as suspect.

Or unless of course there is another agenda.

I hold no views on the guilt or innocence of these two but it appears on the face of it that there are so many holes in it that the case cannot help but be thrown out if the right questions are asked.

And as a final rider,

Are the owners of the bar being arrested for use of illegal labour?

As it would appear that it is unlikely that these two couldn't possibly have committed the crime alone are there other arrests to be Made.

It is sad to see so many people on the forum attacking each other over did they or didn't they. Surely the only thing we all want, including the poor families of Hannah and David, is to establish the truth

Conspiracy theories are what they are, theories. But in the past have they not provided a platform for further investigation and subsequent ridicule of the original story?

I suppose, sad to say, most opinions will depend on how much we trust the Thai police to have found the real killers.

As I say it will be very interesting.

[IslandLover]

thailandchilli, on 08 Dec 2014 - 16:32, said:

jdinasia, on 08 Dec 2014 - 16:24, said:

And the Canadian girl with her statement about never living anywhere she felt safer.

“I’ve never felt as safe living anywhere,” said one young Canadian woman based on the island.

Yes I notice its the same article that in a separate thread you said was published just for page views

As usual JD is being selective in what he posts. To provide some balance, here is another quote from the same Guardian article, this time from an English woman:

"Nonetheless, there is real fear. Several islanders who believe they know who killed Witheridge and Miller have fled. Those who remain stay silent, for good reason, according to the woman: “If you speak out you’ll suddenly find the landlord of your business doesn’t want to know [you] anymore, or you can’t get a visa. Very occasionally, people disappear.”

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/23/briton-thailand-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-mystery-mafia-fear

[mihalis]

Its real funny, so many cynical people on this forum, why aren't you all helping them fund their defence ? Families are happy with outcome, and they would have more info, than anybody....

[jdinasia]

thailandchilli, on 08 Dec 2014 - 16:32, said:

jdinasia, on 08 Dec 2014 - 16:24, said:

And the Canadian girl with her statement about never living anywhere she felt safer.

“I’ve never felt as safe living anywhere,” said one young Canadian woman based on the island.

Yes I notice its the same article that in a separate thread you said was published just for page views

As usual JD is being selective in what he posts. To provide some balance, here is another quote from the same Guardian article, this time from an English woman:

"Nonetheless, there is real fear. Several islanders who believe they know who killed Witheridge and Miller have fled. Those who remain stay silent, for good reason, according to the woman: “If you speak out you’ll suddenly find the landlord of your business doesn’t want to know [you] anymore, or you can’t get a visa. Very occasionally, people disappear.”

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/23/briton-thailand-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-mystery-mafia-fear

Selective? The rest of that quote suggesting violence isn't the issue there, which is clear from your selection.

The associated media coverage has seen Koh Tao characterised as mafia-run. One English woman, who has lived in the area for many years, says the term is misleading: “The mafia here aren’t the sort who carry guns in violin cases, or knock on doors extorting people. They’re the families that go back for generations, and who ran the islands before the police even got here.”

Edited December 9, 2014 by jdinasia

[IslandLover]

Dogmatix, on 09 Dec 2014 - 01:19, said:

One of them has been charged with theft of David's sun glasses along with the famous phone that police reported finding in 4 different places. That is the first mention I have seen of the sun glasses, is this new evidence? We're the accused' finger prints found on the glasses?

In another OP in this thread it mentions "spectacles" which I take to mean eye glasses or reading glasses. Anyway, it's news to me too. I cannot imagine that the male victim would have been carrying sun glasses with him after dark.

[thailandchilli]

Looks like Andy Hall is fairly happy after receiving some clarifications from Mark Kent yesterday

[thailandchilli]

Dogmatix, on 09 Dec 2014 - 01:19, said:

One of them has been charged with theft of David's sun glasses along with the famous phone that police reported finding in 4 different places. That is the first mention I have seen of the sun glasses, is this new evidence? We're the accused' finger prints found on the glasses?

In another OP in this thread it mentions "spectacles" which I take to mean eye glasses or reading glasses. Anyway, it's news to me too. I cannot imagine that the male victim would have been carrying sun glasses with him after dark.

Same here, the first I've heard of sunglasses. The cctv of David a few hours before the horrible deed did not show him carrying any, of course there's the possibility that they would be in his shorts pocket. But then according to the RTP the running man then put on Davids shorts, yet more reason to identify this prime suspect!

[joebrown]

Looks like Andy Hall is fairly happy after receiving some clarifications from Mark Kent yesterday

Are you sure about that. Andy Hall may be smiling, but he clearly states he didn't get all the information/clarification he needed.

[thailandchilli]

Looks like Andy Hall is fairly happy after receiving some clarifications from Mark Kent yesterday

Are you sure about that. Andy Hall may be smiling, but he clearly states he didn't get all the information/clarification he needed.

Not sure but just picked it up by his smiley/wink after his statement. Wishful thinking on my part but while there is hope I never give up on true justice

Edited December 9, 2014 by thailandchilli

[maidee]

as said in international newspapers, tourism is 10% + business for thailand

so finding scapegoats was thailand's main priority to do ...

they lined up for the first DNA test & were cleared in that time, 2 weeks later, they are the culprits after some beating session and translating service of a banana pancake seller ....