Less Western Expats arriving than ever before and a significant fall in working Western expats now in Thailand

[hansnl]

13 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

Easily predicted. Young and old expats come and live and leave for very different reasons.

 

Thailand is an absolutely horrible for a young expat to work. It gives them nothing in return for their effort. Locals don't have any interest in learning from outsiders and kowtowing to Thai/Chinese bosses for a handful of Baht is hardly worth the subservience. 

 

Thais are more and more anti-foreigner and nobody feels this more than expats who actually work among elite Thais. They simply don't want them here. Period. 

Last part, may one wonder if those elite Thais have a Chinese background?

[davidst01]

government need to realise that 28,000 baht a month govt school salary is a joke. 10 to 15 yrs no increase  <deleted>

[PMZ]

My previous company has its' Regional HQ in Bangkok for 18 years, with more than 450 employees, about 100 of whom were expats. The unsettled environment, airport closure, Bangkok blockade issues, Coups etc of the Yellow Shirt and Red Shirt days, was the final straw for the Head Office. They moved most of the operation to Singapore, now with 280 in Singapore now and 150 left in Thailand, with only about 15 of the 100 expats left. A lot of the Thai workforce jobs were moved to Singapore and are now filled by Singaporeans.

Political instability and safety concern was 100% responsible for that move.

[overherebc]

9 minutes ago, Henryford said:

No farang "owns" a house in Thailand ha ha

Wrong.

[Fex Bluse]

20 minutes ago, Wallander4 said:

Have you tried looking at Bulgaria ... If you are EU citizen then you get 5 years residence permit after your 3 months. Daily living is cheaper and they have a great climate - try google Varna at Black Sea ...

Never heard any man say nice things about Bulgarian women... ?

[webcrawler00]

I just wish all expats in Thailand who don't like Thailand will leave ASAP.   Why keep complaining and bad-mouthing your host country? Leave! I have been here for more than 3 years and I still enjoy Thailand very much. Some things I don't like but I don't let those things bother me. I'll live here for as long as I am enjoying Thailand and once I don't, then I will leave. A waste of my time to complain about Thailand but I still stay here!

[Dustdevil]

15 hours ago, AdamTheFarang said:

The facts you state would be enough to put off most successful people. For example in Europe you can work in any 28 countries so if you like snow to the hot beach it's all there, you can own your own business not have to have strangers having shares, stay forever and even become a citizen no stress of Visa Runs, Applications etc Thailand is 50 years behind and with Asean will eventually have to open up. Yes and then if you say something debatable about a company have the threat of jail under the Computer Crimes Act like Alan at PhuketWan went through. Then you might get wacked if you upset the wrong people...................I am done with Thailand.........

Same in the States--any climate you want and all the other things you said. I'm probably done with Thailand too. Also no need to keep learning a new language every time you move.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Dustdevil

[bbbbooboo]

Well what a surprise....hmmm.... you make people feel unwelcome by treating them as “aliens”... they stop coming. I know I did

[inThailand]

Anyone who has lived here for years has seen increased prices, coupled with lower exchange rates, aging Expat community that is leaving or going 6 feet under and almost no one taking their place. The future doesn't look any better, as this trend continues. TV is another example of this trend or at least regarding the number of local posters. 

[bkk6060]

51 minutes ago, Easy Come Easy Go said:

It's what I've been saying all year. Less Farang and more Chinese. The thing with the Chinese is, they all hop on their buses, see sights, and get the hell out. They don't stop off in restaurants or 'gogo' bars like many farang do, and this spend less money which doesn't feed into the economy. 

I think that things have become too expensive here for what it is. There are a myriad of countries that are equally as beautiful if not more so, at a fraction of the price. Also, Thailands rubbish problem is getting out of control. It is a beautiful country naturally speaking, but they are ruining it with their trash and plastics. It's a shame but it is what it is 

I am seeing it differently especially the past year.

Have you visited any of the popular gogo's or discos recently?

Lots of young Chinese males at these places now.  Many with money buying drinks and taking girls.

The majority you are right are on the tours.  But, more and more especially younger Chinese male and female are not coming with a tour.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I am seeing it differently especially the past year.

Have you visited any of the popular gogo's or discos recently?

Lots of young Chinese males at these places now.  Many with money buying drinks and taking girls.

The majority you are right are on the tours.  But, more and more especially younger Chinese male and female are not coming with a tour.

Never seen Chinese in a go-go, seen plenty of Koreans though (and a few Japanese).

[cnx355]

12 hours ago, Canuckabroad said:

I agree with you, right down to the not-religious-but-core-values part.  That's why I like Saigon.  Half the girls I meet here are Catholic.

Vietnam would be a good alternative to Thailand but the visa situation is not favorable for retiree,  at the moment I think only US citizen can get a 1 year visa.  I have a US friend that moved to HCMC after many years in Thailand.

 

Following are what he told me after  3 years in Vietnam:

 

Driver licence are linked to the duration of your visa now. A new one to process every time you  have a new visa.

 

You can not properly register your motorcycle. You keep the original registration with no ownership change. Seem that is the way many Vietnamese do too.  

 

Bank account available but they are restrictions on Online usage and transfer for expats,  except if using  foreign banks like HSBC or others. Exemple: form a Vietnam Bank he could no transfer money to his Vietnamese girlfriend online as he was a foreigner. He opened another account with HSBC in HCMC and he could.

 

No e-entry permit for his 1 year visa multi entry  ( US Citizen), no 90 reporting either.

 

But, Canadian can get 3 month at maximum.  They maybe way to renew or extend with agent as my US friend did it in the past with shorter visa . I must mention that he goes every year get   his  1 year visa in New York City Vietnamese consulate.

 

I refer to  tourist visa and not  business  visa, student visa or teacher visa or people married to Vietnamese.

 

 The landlords or hotels are responsible to report your address.....They fine then, not you  if not done, contrary to Thailand .

 

Rental apartment, are just a bit more expensive but landlords take care of their building and respect contract agreement.

 

Good restaurant and bar but  more expensive too.  Street food and market  similar for most local product

 

Medical care not as good as Thailand except in large city hospital or private clinic  but  more expensive.

 

Overall , my US friends prefer Vietnam to Thailand at the moment. He visit Thailand as he still have many friends here.

 

So that is all that he told me about staying in Vietnam. It was  from conversation from  the last  3 years he lived in Vietnam, so possibly some information may not be up to date.

 

 

 

[Dustdevil]

2 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

They may insist you have a very huge lump of cash in the bank to pay for medical cover if needed one day.

( they wouldn't would they !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). 

That would be,  above and beyond the 800, 400 thousand in the bank extension of stay requirements they have now,   what you think a straight 1 million on top ?

I would not put anything past this lot. 

 

I guess you're not American, as Medicare and Plan F cover everything at age 65+. My total premium is under $200 and there are no copays or deductibles and I can go to the very best docs and hospitals. Much as I like Chiang Mai, I might be better off staying in the very safe and easy life of Boise (not as boondock as it sounds--one hour's flight to Seattle, and lively progressive community thanks to a large university.)

[garyk]

3 hours ago, rumak said:

Vamos a la playa...amigo

Haha, ok. 

Not heading to the beach this hop. Am heading back to Colombia to the cool mountains to spend a few weeks birding in the reserve outside of Bogota.

[Dustdevil]

Fewer expats, not "less" expats. Almost as bad as how everybody confuses loser with looser.

[Peterw42]

It appears to be a hard pill for some expats to swallow, we are not in the majority any more and haven't been for years. 

 

There appears to be a group of western ex-pats who still live in the western ex-pat bubble and truly believe they are the great white benefactors of thailand, single handedly driving and propping up the Thai economy. Believing they are in greater numbers than most other countries.

 

We have been in the minority for years, there are more tourists and ex-pats from Japan, India, Korea, Russia than any of the western counties, China outnumbers us 10 to 1, both as tourists and ex-pats.

 

There are a lot of myths that perpetuate the western ex-pat mindset, Chinese zero baht tours, Chinese dont spend any money or buy property, the Russians stopped coming, Indians buy one beer and share it, there are no Japanese ex-pats, English is required for business, trade and tourism. All just creating a level of self importance and justifying the western ex-pat superior opinion of themselves.

 

My wife's son is at university studying Mandarin, not English. My wife has 5 sisters and 2 of them are married to wealthy Japanese ex-pats, they own and run giant seafood factories. One of the richest ex-pats I know is Indian, multiple businesses and a couple of large hotels. One of my Russian neighbours recently opened a cheese and yoghurt factory. My local shops in Jomtien now has a chinese real estate agent, signs "only" in Chinese.

Yet somehow, your average western expat renting a condo and buying beer and hookers, buying a house in issan for a bar-girl,  is more important in the scheme of things.

 

People need a reality check, we are a minority, both as tourists and expats, and have been for years, stay or leave "up to you" but stop with the delusional "great white benefactor".

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Peterw42

[BuckleUp]

7 hours ago, mduras01 said:

 If they opened up foreign land ownership, prices would sky rocket by multiples. Foreign demand and speculative individual investors would simply kill the dream of any hard working thai to own land in their own country.

Happened in Melbourne, Sydney, & Brisbane. The Aussie dream of land ownership is gone for the next generation of Aussies. Thanks Chinese.

[johnarth]

I'm glad I live in a different part of Thailand ( Trat province ) I'm a retired Australian and broke as living on Aust retirement payments only$612 a month. my wife family and friends are very understanding they often bring food with them when they come and visit us  at first I was embarrassed but not now because my wife cooks up and invites them around for a feed, but I do have some money coming soon this is a very long story, I just wanted to make the point not all Thais are what you say.

[JTXR]

This is interesting enough, but the survey was done by TV, of TV members, and I can't help but wonder if TV members are in fact a representative sample of Western expats in Thailand.

 

 

[tigermoth]

Concerning health insurance, the question was framed in a way where a true answer was not possible. I do not have That health insurance but I do have health insurance in my own country which is not payable outside my home country. Therefore if I get any serious illness I would return to my home country for treatment. In Thailand I have regular, 6 monthly, health checkups, these cost between 3000 to 6000 baht which I pay for.

[johnarth]

10 minutes ago, BuckleUp said:

Happened in Melbourne, Sydney, & Brisbane. The Aussie dream of land ownership is gone for the next generation of Aussies. Thanks Chinese.

NO thank the Turnbull Government for selling and allowing to sell Australia out to the Chinese

[LivinLOS]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

In 2016 20% of the sample were Expats that had only lived in Thailand for 3 or less years, two years later that figure had dropped to 14%. The arrivals have also been retirees and not working younger expat, with the average age increasing a whopping ten years from 50 year to just over 60 years old in just two years.  

 

Rather than consider only that this sample is a fair reflection of the overall community.. Perhaps also consider that this is where younger expats are using different social media.. 

Forums like this are dated, younger expats are I would feel more likely to be engaged on facebook for information and instagram and twitter for news and sharing. 

It may be the 'ThaiGeezer' old man syndrome is being shown in the survey response more than only being an external factor. 

[moontang]

26 minutes ago, Dustdevil said:

I guess you're not American, as Medicare and Plan F cover everything at age 65+. My total premium is under $200 and there are no copays or deductibles and I can go to the very best docs and hospitals. Much as I like Chiang Mai, I might be better off staying in the very safe and easy life of Boise (not as boondock as it sounds--one hour's flight to Seattle, and lively progressive community thanks to a large university.)

at 65, many are better off back in the usa, primarily due to Medicare..no doubt about that.  It is ten years away for me...there could be a voucher system in place by then, or even agreements with Thai Hospitals..would be win-win for the US Gov and the retirees...it was the Left, who completely shot down the idea, when vouchers were proposed in 2012..also the Left refusing to privitize even the smallest piece of SS..even though Singapore, Norway, Japan, and Canada do it....some how TriCare is used here, so maybe that can be a lesson for them.

Edited August 3, 2018 by moontang

[tigermoth]

13 minutes ago, BuckleUp said:

Happened in Melbourne, Sydney, & Brisbane. The Aussie dream of land ownership is gone for the next generation of Aussies. Thanks Chinese.

Chinese also are the owners of the vast number of new condos here and want over priced rents and inflated sale prices.

[moontang]

2 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Rather than consider only that this sample is a fair reflection of the overall community.. Perhaps also consider that this is where younger expats are using different social media.. 

Forums like this are dated, younger expats are I would feel more likely to be engaged on facebook for information and instagram and twitter for news and sharing. 

It may be the 'ThaiGeezer' old man syndrome is being shown in the survey response more than only being an external factor. 

yep, the old grumpy dicks are cannibalizing the forum..been happening for years...they are getting older, and the 30s, 40s folks go to other sources.

[mindfulness]

... ‘This years survey received a respectable 1,429 respondents‘. 

 

‘respectable’ ?  1,429 is hardly respectable when many come to this site / forum just to spout their self inflicted suffering 

 

... so again ‘respectable’ Really ??  

 

Many Thai Visa members reputation when talked about with most everyday expats is quite enlightening,  ‘Grumpy, Keyboard Warriors, Cynical, Self Rightous’, being popular descriptions. Anyhow all the best with Thai Visa and it’s ‘respectable’ data gathering for future surveys.

Personally the subjective math % reasoning of the graph charts is mind boggling. 

 

[Sydebolle]

The official Thailand, its bureaucracy and the crazy maze of rules and regulations, combined with the fact, that aliens are treated as second-class people from arrival to departure - go figure!

No need to kiss the Westerners bottom but treating them like your own people would be a step in the right direction. Compare day-to-day things like buying a car on finance, opening a bank account, get an internet hook-up, a credit card or a driving license. Everything is at least very complicated and combined with an entire forest of paper pulp turned into photocopy paper nobody reads or becomes flat-out impossible ......... just because we are Westerners.

I personally believe, this entire rant about making a Westerners life difficult is nothing more than an inferiority complex combined with jealousy and greed. 

And yes, Westerners speak what they think and vote with their feet. Instead of all those „rich“ well-spending Westerners the Kingdom will be graced with stingy, polluting, impolite and uneducated Chinese with lots of money - serves them right. 

I - for one - moved away for these very reasons; I now understand the word Apartheit which here tends to read more like „Farang“. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Sydebolle
Spellchecker typos

[digger70]

14 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

now,

let us assume that what you say is reasonably in line with reality

then, how come,

so many farangs are still settling here for retirement?

 

the stream of settlers is quite big

That's an easy one ,,,,It is simple because they can't afford to retire  in their own too expensive country,,,

 

 

[inThailand]

9 minutes ago, JTXR said:

This is interesting enough, but the survey was done by TV, of TV members, and I can't help but wonder if TV members are in fact a representative sample of Western expats in Thailand.

 

 

Based on the low number of non expats in the bars, restaurants, Makro, etc, would 70%+ of TV posters not be expats? And this trend has been growing? 

[IAMHERE]

I thought it said 'thriving' instead of reading arriving. Not a problem, plenty of Chinese and Indians and backslider religious fanatics to visit Thailand.