CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[mogandave]

It doesn't quite work out that easily as my state pension is paid every 28 days and with the exception of February the payment date moves forwards 2 or 3 days a month and then one month I get paid twice.
 
The military and company pensions are 5 days apart which isn't too much of a problem unless of course the date is on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday when of course Thai banks don't operate.
 
They get paid into my TransferWise borderless account in the UK and then I transfer them to my KBank account which comes via the BBK bank and then to KBank.

Sounds that easy.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, Confuscious said:

Will Immigration require with the new rules that the person show that he/she is paying income taxes on the monthly 40,000/65,000 Baht transfers or not?

Why would they? I have been transferring money into Thailand for over 10 years without mention of this! 

Can't predict the future though!

Edited January 9, 2019 by jacko45k

[billd766]

9 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Sounds that easy.

 

It depends when the bills come in, especially the unexpected ones.

 

I am also looking deeply in the Kasikorn Bank/about the recording of international forex transfersTransferWise thread as well.

[farangx]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

 

farangx,

 

I don't know if you use the bank letter method, but I certainly do.  Have used it for the last 8 years or so at Chaeng Watttana (Bangkok) immigration to get my annual extension of stay using the Bt800K deposit method.   

 

 Once you got your short & sweet bank letter which as I mentioned above is "very basic/simple" and does not provide any information about account activity other than balance on the day of the letter issue, does not provide deposits/withdrawals info, does not provide any seasoning period info, etc., you hand that bank letter with copy of your passbook along with the actual passbook to the immigration office.

 

 Each and every year the various immigration officers did not look at the bank letter for more than 2 seconds...."they just glanced at it to confirm you have the bank letter."   They then start looking at the copy of the passbook "and the actual passbook" to confirm the passbook and copy you provided match.  Well, they did glance back at the bank letter for another second to confirm the current day balance reflected on the letter matched the current day balance on the passbook.  Then the officer spent 30 seconds to a minute reviewing the passbook entries to ensure none of the various transaction entries show that I dropped below Bt800K during the 3 month minimum seasoning period.   Then sometimes they may annotate/circle some entries on the passbook copy.   

 

 But my point is they spent 90% of their time reviewing the passbook.....they only briefly glanced at the bank letter which only provides very basic account info.

 

I'd been using the bank letter for 800K extension in the past few years, they never asked me for my bank book.  Perhaps the statements that it came with satisfied them I really don't know.  I also had my bank book and other documents I think may help with me, which I never offer unless they asked otherwise it may be too hot for them to handle.  Maybe they will ask to see my bank book this year.

 

3 hours ago, Pib said:

 I expect for the "monthly income" method to confirm the overseas deposits/transfers are arriving monthly and in the required amount the passbook/statement will be the key document reviewed....and the bank letter will continue to be very simple/short...only providing the basic account info I mentioned before.  

 

  Whether some banks may start providing a more detailed letter for the income method to translate passbook transaction codes/confirm monthly overseas transfers I can't say.   

 

Since the bank letter seasoning are working for the banks and TI, there is no reason to change that section in the letter.

 

But for those on income transferred from overseas, I expect an additional paragraph or section in the letter to state these income entries are all from overseas.  Otherwise the letter would be useless.

 

Not that I am using this income method but I will definitely check that my bank can confirmed these transaction originated from overseas.  Otherwise I will have to switch home bank or local bank here to suit.  I am not going to wait 12 months only to find that 1 or more such entries spoil the fun for me.

 

[zydeco]

17 hours ago, skatewash said:

A bank statement good for the past 12 months.  It may take the bank a few days to get this statement as it might have to come from the Bangkok Headquarters. 

And if Immigration requires your documents to be dated the same day as you apply for extension, which they do????

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Nelska said:

Someone would have a feedback on the possibility of switching from a visa OA "retired" to a "Thai wife" visa? On another forum, I read that similar requests would seem to have been rejected in Chiang Mai immigration office. On the other hand, the reverse switch would be quite possible and even encouraged by immigration.
If you could successfully switch to a Thai wife visa, sharing your feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

In theory, it should not be a problem - you are already on a Non-Imm-O type extension, and merely changing the basis for it.  But IOs have to do more work for a family-based extension, so may resist this.  As many have experienced and know, they don't have to follow any rules if they don't feel like it.

In the past, we had reports of people getting retirement-based extensions when they applied for marriage-based - because their finances were adequate for retirement, and a retirement-extension was easier to process.  Those who needed marriage-based to work were refused a correction, and could be forced go leave w/o a re-entry permit to cancel their new "retirement" extension, go get a new Non-O Visa, then re-apply for the marriage-based.  To avoid having this done involuntarily, it was advised not to show "too much" bank-money and/or income, to make this change impossible. 

 

But, recently, I recall a report of staff resisting changing from marriage to retirement - so, evidently, a "problem" can sometimes be reduced to, "you want to change something," in addition to any work issue.

 

But since you mentioned Chiang Mai - they were recently given a re-organization / straightening-up, so may be more professional that an older report would indicate.  Please let us know your result.

[bdenner]

21 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

So because people don’t spend all their money you think they don’t have it?

AND -- If they are forced to import 65K Baht every month but only spend 30K, will only take em about 2 years to save the 800K Baht and presto, just top up year to year according to his/her budget!

[farangx]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

 

If it was me, until we find out how picky immigration is going to be on supporting docs to prove/document the monthly overseas deposit, and what new bank letter(s) Thai banks "might" provide to support the monthly income method, I would definitely update my passbook monthly to ensure the monthly deposit gets printed in your passbook.   The passbook entry is going to be the gold standard.

The bank book should be updated at least once a month to show that foreign transfer.  At least for as long as it takes to be comfortable with.  Besides you still have to check that entry anyway, at least to denied the chance to blame immigration for some people. ????

 

[farangx]

27 minutes ago, bdenner said:

AND -- If they are forced to import 65K Baht every month but only spend 30K, will only take em about 2 years to save the 800K Baht and presto, just top up year to year according to his/her budget!

Then you can take comfort that given the strong baht currency swings will affect you less.

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, farangx said:

I'd been using the bank letter for 800K extension in the past few years, they never asked me for my bank book.  Perhaps the statements that it came with satisfied them I really don't know.  I also had my bank book and other documents I think may help with me, which I never offer unless they asked otherwise it may be too hot for them to handle.  Maybe they will ask to see my bank book this year.

 

What immigration office do you use?  Chaeng Wattana (Bangkok) like me or another one? 

 

Regardless there is surely no shortage of inconsistently among the immigration offices....and even within the same office. TiT.

[Pib]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

 

If it was me, until we find out how picky immigration is going to be on supporting docs to prove/document the monthly overseas deposit, and what new bank letter(s) Thai banks "might" provide to support the monthly income method, I would definitely update my passbook monthly to ensure the monthly deposit gets printed in your passbook.   The passbook entry is going to be the gold standard.

 

 

3 hours ago, doctormann said:

Yes, I was thinking that too.  Complete pain but if it as to be done then it has to be done!

 

I do need to add that even though I say the passbook is going to be the gold standard I don't mean to imply that's the only Thai bank doc TI will surely accept if the Thai banks don't come up with a special letter for the income method.   Heck, like you said it can be hard sometimes to update your passbook once a month to ensure each transaction is shown separately...or the passbook goes MIA....or it gets damaged beyond recognition...etc. 

 

I would think in that case a 12 month bank statement from the bank that comes "with bank letterhead signature/stamp" (gives the immigration office a warm fuzzy it is not a fake you produced) showing all transactions like people usually have to get when apply for loans/mortgages that such a statement would be equal to/better than a passbook.  These types of annual statements only cost a couple hundred baht but usually take a few days to get.

[David Walden]

On 1/7/2019 at 6:21 PM, ubonjoe said:

They will not care. It would not be hard to explain to them which I wrote in the other topic.

THE COMBO METHOD...Is it any wonder that it presently maybe better to go back to your home country and apply for a Retirement Visa there (I do)...pretty easy considering all the stuffing around these post are indicating here in Thailand.  The present information indicates your Australian Aged Pension (AAP) or other countries similar will represent about Bt500.000 per year income, the other Bt300,000 you provide youself or beg, steal or borrow it and put it in a Thai bank a/c or in a bank in Australia if applying there.  Actually, this method is available in most countries and in Thailand.  So far there appears to be nobody following up on my posts about the combo method.  Despite the Senior Consul at the US Embassy suggesting on 103 fm that a big percentage of the applicant could arrange this method.   He clearly said 'Thai Immigration will preserve this method"  they promised and it appears is still available as it has for many years but few takers.

[doctormann]

23 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

 

I do need to add that even though I say the passbook is going to be the gold standard I don't mean to imply that's the only Thai bank doc TI will surely accept if the Thai banks don't come up with a special letter for the income method.   Heck, like you said it can be hard sometimes to update your passbook once a month to ensure each transaction is shown separately...or the passbook goes MIA....or it gets damaged beyond recognition...etc. 

 

I would think in that case a 12 month bank statement from the bank that comes "with bank letterhead signature/stamp" (gives the immigration office a warm fuzzy it is not a fake you produced) showing all transactions like people usually have to get when apply for loans/mortgages that such a statement would be equal to/better than a passbook.  These types of annual statements only cost a couple hundred baht but usually take a few days to get.

I hope that you are right because that would be a lot easier than having to update every month.

 

I can download statements from TMB - using TMB Direct on-line banking - but probably only for the previous six months.  Just need to do the download at least that often to get a 12-month record - if you start soon enough.

 

SWIFT transfers from my UK Bank (Barclays) are coded EXIM so that should satisfy the foreign source requirement.

 

Of course, the PDF printouts would need to be notarised as genuine by TMB so they might prefer to produce the full 12-month version anyway.  The only snag with that, as has been mentioned previously, is if there is an insistence on the statement being obtained on the same day that you make the extension application.  This could be a bit tricky if the bank needs several days to produce the document.

 

[farangx]

42 minutes ago, Pib said:

What immigration office do you use?  Chaeng Wattana (Bangkok) like me or another one? 

 

Regardless there is surely no shortage of inconsistently among the immigration offices....and even within the same office. TiT.

I am with Phuket, inconsistency is the only constant at TI.  Last year when I was doing the extension, the IO was flipping my paperwork like he was trying to find fault with it.  Finally he settled for a photo of where I lived when I collect my passport the next day.  Because he did not ask for it when I had it with me 2 years ago, I make them ask for it.

 

[mogandave]

It depends when the bills come in, especially the unexpected ones.
 
I am also looking deeply in the Kasikorn Bank/about the recording of international forex transfersTransferWise thread as well.

Well yeah, you might need to maintain a cushion ...

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, David Walden said:

THE COMBO METHOD...Is it any wonder that it presently maybe better to go back to your home country and apply for a Retirement Visa there (I do).

No sure why you quoted my post that was a reply to this post.

On 1/7/2019 at 6:18 PM, zydeco said:

How will you explain this to the banks and immigration? Will they care?

I will not be going anywhere to get a visa. I already have had my funds brought into the country every month for years.

[JLCrab]

51 minutes ago, Pib said:

 Heck, like you said it can be hard sometimes to update your passbook once a month to ensure each transaction is shown separately...or the passbook goes MIA....or it gets damaged beyond recognition...etc.

So we can maybe look forward to topics similar to the "My passport went through the washing machine" like my girlfriend stole my passbook or Gee I forgot to make my monthly transfer or all the other reasons why someone didn't do what they were supposed to do for extension purposes.

[farangx]

9 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Of course, the PDF printouts would need to be notarised as genuine by TMB so they might prefer to produce the full 12-month version anyway.  The only snag with that, as has been mentioned previously, is if there is an insistence on the statement being obtained on the same day that you make the extension application.  This could be a bit tricky if the bank needs several days to produce the document.

 

If your bank has the necessary information captured, there is no reason why you cannot have it while waiting.  You should be suspicious if they take days to retrieve them, the likelihood is that the staff are new to it.

 

But to be sure to be sure, bring along all the printouts you have in case you need to sell it to them.  Also make it a point to use the bank letter to apply for the extension on the same day the same day.  The idea is to have the IO cornered so that he has to no choice but to give you what you want.

 

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

What immigration office do you use?  Chaeng Wattana (Bangkok) like me or another one? 

 

Regardless there is surely no shortage of inconsistently among the immigration offices....and even within the same office. TiT.

Yes.

One of the more intelligent posts in all.

Go to the office you use and ask to speak with a supervisor.

Every office can be different.

Do not come on here ask a question then get a bunch of vague yes and no´s.

[wobalt]

The problem with this approach is that Thai Immigration doesn’t research well what kind of “pensions exists in the different countries. In Germany they have for example pensions for civil servants,payments for workers are based on an insurance approach, sometimes it also includes payments from companies. Self employed peoples , rely on investments butusually not pay in the system, so no payment from th insurance.


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[mogandave]

So we can maybe look forward to topics similar to the "My passport went through the washing machine" like my girlfriend stole my passbook or Gee I forgot to make my monthly transfer or all the other reasons why someone didn't do what they were supposed to do for extension purposes.

The dog ate it...

[mogandave]

The problem with this approach is that Thai Immigration doesn’t research well what kind of “pensions exists in the different countries. In Germany they have for example pensions for civil servants,payments for workers are based on an insurance approach, sometimes it also includes payments from companies. Self employed peoples , rely on investments butusually not pay in the system, so no payment from th insurance.


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Well apparently no one has to have a pension of any kind to qualify.

All they need is time and money.

[Pawpcorn]

Hi again,

 

In the past, the US Embassy posted publicly, procedure instructions to show your bank... in the THAI Language. (They did this in the situation where we needed to get a bank draft (check) cut, to pay for Embassy Outreach functions, ahead of time.)

 

My TWO questions are...

#1: Is there a link to the Thai Immigration instructions (in terms of what the bank needs to do, to provide an exact description of what the "Letter of Certification" needs to contain; format, necessary information, etc.  ...in THAI LANGUAGE?

 

Since this is a NEW procedure, I'm sure the banks will have some "ramp up time" coming up to speed on this... and I'll be at a somewhat rural area (Udon Thani) where English is quite usually marginal.

It's so easy for things to get "lost in translation", and then there's the trap within Thai Culture... that if I'm forced to RETURN to the bank for a REDO of the "Letter"... there will be a strong feeling of shame and embarrassment by the Bank Staff, regardless of my efforts to moderate that...

 

#2: Also... am I supposed to make this request for documentation directly to the Bank Manager? (pretty sure English skills will be sketchy...)

 

I plan to trek to Udon Thani exactly FOUR WEEKS from now, to attempt to get this new "Letter of Certification", and renew my Retirement Extension shortly afterwards... so I'm in this vital planning stage...

 

Thanks again for your support, and help, ThaiVisa is priceless!!   HT to UbonJoe! ????

Pawpcorn

 

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Pawpcorn said:

#1: Is there a link to the Thai Immigration instructions (in terms of what the bank needs to do, to provide an exact description of what the "Letter of Certification" needs to contain; format, necessary information, etc.  ...in THAI LANGUAGE?

There is nothing from immigration available. It is basically the same letter used to prove a bank account used for the money in the bank option.

7 minutes ago, Pawpcorn said:

#2: Also... am I supposed to make this request for documentation directly to the Bank Manager? (pretty sure English skills will be sketchy...)

You ask at the service desk and they will have the manager or some authorized person to sign it.

[mogandave]

I think it fair to say the banks that get a lot of expat traffic will be fine.

If you’re the only guy trading there, it will likely be an issue.

[David Walden]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No sure why you quoted my post that was a reply to this post.

I will not be going anywhere to get a visa. I already have had my funds brought into the country every month for years.

Good idea but appears if you have a pension from where ever of about Bt500,000 (like Aussie) it figures that you will only need to have Bt300,000 in a Thai bank a/c for 2/3 months to obtain your retirement visa. The Combo method.  Talked about by the Cheif US Consul on 103FM radio in a recent interview.  This method is available as clearly indicated to anyone requesting it.  I am at a loss as to why Immigration does make it simple to use.  A few years ago at Hue Hin Immigration, I raised this with an officer he had no, idea what I was talking about.  It seems senior Thai immigration Officers confirm it is available and senior Embassy staff know all about it, why is it the Thai rank and file are not at all helpful and ignore people wishing to use it.  Perhaps they have no idea...TIT   Aussie aged pension (AAP) can be paid into a Thai bank a/c every 4 weeks by the Aus Gov., a perfect record of your income to help you obtain a retirement visa.  Just a little bit of help from Thai Immigration would improve things for Aussies and others a lot.  The Bt300,000 could easily be borrowed as a loan with its own security as it never leave the bank.  And all legal and above board...perhaps too easy you have to give the scammers a bit of a chance?

Edited January 9, 2019 by David Walden

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Good idea but appears if you have a pension from where ever of about Bt500,000 (like Aussie) it figures that you will only need to have Bt300,000 in a Thai bank a/c for 2/3 months to obtain your retirement visa.

I am on my 11th extension of stay based upon marriage. My income is well more than the 40k baht I need to do my extension that has been going into a Thai bank account every month for almost 7 years.

[JackThompson]

22 hours ago, tracy3eyes said:

I do not understand why they would not accept documents like P60's, Letters from Pension provider etc surely this is proof enough. Whats also annoying is the fact that I have had 10 million going through my Thai banks in the last 10 years. All tide up in property in Thai and Spain at the moment.

 

So if I cannot get a renewal in Sept I will give up! And go elsewhere as I suspect many others will or have to.

 

TI are hurting the very people they should be securing as good long standing genuine retirees.

I agree entirely with your sentiments, and the harm this move does.  I see no reason that people are not able to use their property (condos) similarly to "in the bank" funds for proving sufficient wealth to get a 1-year extension based on retirement. 

[skatewash]

7 hours ago, zydeco said:

And if Immigration requires your documents to be dated the same day as you apply for extension, which they do????

Hopefully, the bank calls you when the statement is available or gives you a date when you can go to the bank and pick up the statement and get the bank letter at the same time so at least all the documents have the same date.  You would possibly be able to go to immigration that same day or the next day.  In Phuket that has been acceptable, that is, they will allow bank documents to be at least a day old.  I have heard it's different in Bangkok but that may be because the banks and immigration at Chaeng Wattana are almost colocated.  That's not the case in Phuket.  I've heard that bank documents are supposed to be good for 7 days but have not tested that personally.

In my case, I use a small branch bank so I actually have to request the bank letter and statement one day in advance and then return the next morning to pick them up.  I then take them to Phuket Immigration so they are at that point up to 1 day old.  I should mention that I am getting only a 3-4 month bank statement as I use the 800,000 in the bank method.  My understanding is that banks typically can only issue you a 6-month bank statement locally and that a request for a 12-month statement has to be forwarded to the headquarters office in Bangkok.  I don't know because I only need 3-4 months for my application.

The timing will be tricky, I imagine.  It may require two trips to your bank to get everything together.  I guess we'll see as people start to do this in the next few months.

Edited January 9, 2019 by skatewash

[DogNo1]

In reference to Pib's post #368, since I had been proving my retirement income with my USAA bank statement accompanied by an embassy affidavit, I was able to get my extension each year.  I guessed wrong and assumed that my USAA bank statement alone would continue to provide adequate proof of steady retirement income.  Now, I have been contemplating sending $2,250 per month to my Bangkok Bank account through an ACH transfer but with BB's new rule requiring an International ACH form starting in June, that seems to be out.  Using TW presents a problem with getting transfers to post in our accounts as foreign transactions.  I don't really want to pay the SWIFT transfer charge each month, so I have considered just transferring the equivalent of 800,000 to Bangkok Bank and presenting that as proof of income when I go the Chaeng Wattana at the end of March but, of course it won't have been seasoned for three months by that time.  I can't extend for 60 days until it is seasoned because I must return to Tokyo around the middle of April.   Since there will be flexibility shown to applicants who will have not been able to achieve the twelve months of income transfers by the time that they apply, I wonder if similar flexibility will be shown to applicants who have not had time to achieve the three months' seasoning for their 800,000 in the bank? 

Edited January 9, 2019 by DogNo1