What they don't tell you about clearing off to Vietnam

Jack Mountain · September 3, 2019

2 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Vietnam's the only country to have been victorious in 3 wars against 3 permanent members of the UN Security Council.

Jingthing · September 3, 2019

1 hour ago, Yinn said:

Up to him.

They kill his family, but you worry about say that?

Wow.

That's really very weak.

Who is they?

Today's tourists and expats in Vietnam, all that happen to have white skin, killed his family?

Seriously?

Do you even have a clue about the concept of racism?

But you're right about one thing. I've had experiences abroad where the person I am talking to doesn't realize I'm American, and quite often they start spouting anti-American hatred. So you as a not farang would be in a much better position to hear how the people there really think. Though I don't think we can make any grand generalities based on your very limited experiences.

I did visit Hanoi and other parts of North Vietnam at the very beginning of the expansion of tourism there. So Americans there were still not very common. I was confronted specifically for being an American, not in an openly racist way or even about the war times which nobody was blaming me for explicitly (which would have been absurd as I was an anti-war activist back then). It was more on the lines of -- why aren't more Americans coming?!? Seriously that's what I was asked again and again.

So now they're coming!

Edited September 3, 2019 by Jingthing

Cadbury · September 3, 2019

7 minutes ago, jondoe18 said:

Does anyone know how it is with a visa if foreigner marry a Vietnamese citizen?

Because I think three months to a year visa/extention ... until death do us part..
Is a bad joke used only in one country.

Yes I know. A 5 year marriage visa exemption is obtainable for about US$75. You will need a health certificate (obtained at a local hospital), a certificate of single status from your home country and a residency certificate signed by the landlord. Plus a "fee" for the government authority to conduct the simple marriage ceremony.

Your 5 year visa exemption needs stamping every 6 months. This is automatic when you re enter Vietnam from foreign country (such as Thailand) and is free. If you don't leave the country during the six months then you need to get it stamped at the local immigration office.

None of this Thai nonsense about marriage visa compulsory deposits, or TM30's or 90 day reports or snap home inspections and interviews with neighbours.

In the 12 years I have been in Vietnam I have only ever been to the Immigration office once and that was to transfer my visa exemption to a new passport. Vietnam is hassle free living and working, unlike Thailand.

Take little notice of the naysaying blowins (like the author of the original post) who think they know everything after a short few months stay in Vietnam. What they think they know is mainly false and misleading bia hoi expat gossip.

In my early days before marriage I did a visa run to BKK every three months on a Thai visa exemption for a 10 to 15 day stay. Never had any problems. Thai immigration can see from your Vietnam visas that you live in Vietnam and are not trying to stay as a phoney tourist looking for work. They realise you are just doing a visa run from the dates on your Vietnam visa.

I purchased a Vietnam bank bond the other day, pays 9% annually. I enjoy a beer and get 48 X 425 ml bottles of Hanoi beer delivered to the door at a total cost of 350,000 VND which is roughly 9.5 baht per bottle. Genuine Red Label scotch whiskey from the nearby BIG C supermarket (as big as any in Thailand) one km away costs about 400 thai baht

Think about it.

Cadbury · September 3, 2019

On 9/1/2019 at 2:52 PM, vinniekintana said:

Sounds dreary.

In any case, thanks for taking the time to write this.????

Pity you think so because most of it is garbage from a p!ssed off blowin visitor who, by self admission, has only been in Vietnam a few months because he does not have enough money to live in Thailand (800,000 baht). He can't even understand the Vietnamese currency and keeps trying to equate it to the Thai baht when in fact the Vietnam dong is related to the US dollar and is pegged to it.

I have been in Vietnam for 12 years and find it a great place to be headquartered. Before you make a judgement I suggest you get some real advice from someone who has lived in Vietnam at least 5 to 10 years and who knows the ropes.

e.g motor bike theft. Duh! I still have the same motorbike I bought 12 years ago. Why?......because I take precautions to make sure it is not stolen. Just like people in any country take precautions against theft of their property.

e.g supermarkets. I live in a provincial city in northern Vietnam. There is a Big C supermarket about one km away from me and it is as big as any Big C in Bangkok. The poor man is ignorant of the life around him in Vietnam. The country is going gangbusters compared to Thailand which is going in reverse.

Most of his stuff is just petty childish grievances plus a bit of false gossip for good measure.

erinsf · September 3, 2019

I too would choose to live in BKK if, I could only because, it is more developed. I think though, a lot of what the author/poster has written about refers to Saigon which is the largest city (over 10 million residents and growing,) in Vietnam. There are lots of options from the beach to the mountains, to chose from. BKK is a much older international city...so, I understand why it is more developed. BUT, I am very protective of my love/hate motorbikes but, not Vietnam, relationship lol. I am not sure it will be able to BE A BANGKOK...without figuring out mass transit like BKK has. But, the MRT didn't open until 2004. I kind of believe this must have been posted awhile ago. So, I will update you all here. There are a number of 7-11's nowadays along with, Family Mart and Circle K's. Yes, traffic is a nightmare and the pollution is on par with BKK but, it isn't as dreary as this posting makes it out to be. I do not recommend driving. Like BKK, there is a lot of building going on. I was walking around Ho Chi Minh Square last night and I was reminded of how vibrant and modern some areas of Saigon are. Back to driving... there is no need to drive. But, some people do. Transportation is accessible and affordable Grab Taxi, Be and new local 'taxi,' companies. It is REALLY CHEAP. And, driving is silly...in my opinion. There are no rules. Most persons on motorbikes do NOT hae a license and the fines for any violation...including killing someone are not worth it. Is it different than BKK, yes. It is a developing country as, they have been occupied by another country or, at war for much of the last few hundred years. It wasn't really until the early 1990s when they started interacting with other countries. And, it was in the last few years that a lot of the international relationships have started to blossom. Thailand is 1000 years old. And, they have it figured out a bit better in big city. Is Saigon nuts..yes. Is crime rampant? Well, it depends on what you consider rampant. There is petty theft and if you hold your phone out and take a selfie or, don't secure it ...someone will take it. Women should wear bags over their shoulders/chest. But, this is common sense in any city you go to. DaNang is a smaller city. There is some petty crime for sure but, more in the big city. In Saigon there has been some violent crime against women. There is also a great deal of domestic abuse in Vietnam but, the government is highlighting this and trying to change the story. ATMs are everywhere but, like this poster said...the amount of money each bank allows you take out changes from bank to bank. Citibank is the best...I think 6 million now. And, in my case....my US/International bank covers transaction fees. I hear this is common nowadays. Once you leave Saigon, the people are a lot more relaxed and it makes sense. It's crazy here. I love the Vietnamese I have met...for the most part. It takes only one meeting to be invited home to meet the extended family for many of my relationships. Are there people who aren't friendly in Thailand, the USA, France? Yes...Vietnam too. Housing ....the poster is correct...a 'one bedroom' apartment is often, a studio. And, I have noticed on numerous occasions, the photos do not match the apartment. They are not new. They are not big. They are not stocked with all the pots and pans you need. Though, a number of 'serviced apartments,' in BKK have not been stocked well, either. I have purchased lots of kitchen equipment during my time in SE Asia. I do love a serviced apartment though and they are abundant in Vietnam. Saigon is stupid expensive these days but, DaNang and Hoi An are more affordable and really, nicer places to settle down. The motorbikes drive on sidewalks everywhere but, it is more prevalent in Saigon and Hanoi and it DRIVES ME NUTs. The motorbike issue is one of my greatest complaints. I think in general, I enjoy living in Bangkok more because, it is more developed for walkers, shoppers and eating out. There are new dining options every year in Vietnam...with more choices for cuisine. A lot of the restaurants are very good. You can also eat well/cheap on the streets. There are number of international shops in Saigon and Hanoi nowadays (Gap, H&M, make-up, Versace, Banana Republic, Zara et al.) Vietnam has changed a lot in the past 5 years I have lived or, visited here. Some changes are good...some bad. The biggest complaint I have is the traffic. I hate the motorbikes. There are more and more each day, month and year lol. There are not many rules which I can tell. They drive through lights, don't stop before they turn, drive in the opposite direction, drive in sidewalks and basically....pedestrians walk at their own risk. The pecking order...TRUCKS (they honk but, don't stop, BUSES (also do not stop,,) cars, motorbikes, bicycles and then...pedestrians. And, there is a lack of optional road crossing like there is in BKK. BUT, when it comes to smaller places to live, DaNang and Hoi An are more interesting in many ways than, Chiang Mai for example. DaNang has a million people and it is spread out. While, Hoi An is smaller and more charming and has great restaurants, charming old city, good beaches et al. Vietnam is transitioning from the wild-wild-west to a dynamic country. It is going to take time. the USA, European countries, China/Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur et al...took a long time to get where they are today. If you have to move somewhere try Hanoi if you want a big city. It is a bit more tame and developed simply because, the seat of government is there and it's older. Or, try DaNang or Hoi An. If you want small, try Dalat..its also more temperate as, its in the mountains.

joecoolfrog · September 3, 2019

14 hours ago, Yinn said:

You go Hanoi before? I go already.

Go to Hanoi war museum. Not only the Vietnam War is the (big) problem.

From 1954 -1975 the French do really bad thing. So cruel. Really. Unbelievable.

We also go the Hanoi food tour with the young Vietnam guide. He say he not like farang.

Sorry you not like hear about that. But is true.

So that my experience. What about you?

I did.

You know about what the French do there? Or not?

So terrible. Really.

As a student of history I know exactly what the French got up to in Indochina , not good and no surprise that the vietnamese people fought for independence.

So there may well be some lingering resentment towards the French but NOT towards every white skinned westerner.

I am certain that the tourist guide did not use the expression Farang , its not a word in common usage in Vietnam and in any case I doubt that he is as ignorant as you clearly are.

If you mean French then say French , mean American then say American , saying Farang is simply stupid.

Dont you realise that everybody is a foreigner the minute they set foot outside of their own country , even you Yinn.

If I dont like Thais , I say I dont like Thais ( though I wouldn't because its moronic to make sweeping generalisations) I dont say I hate all Asians !

Do you think all Asians are the same , have the same culture and beliefs , act the same , should Thailand be blamed for Japanese war atrocities.

Do you understand now ?

phycokiller · September 3, 2019

talk of past wars is a bit silly in my opinion, nobody really cares about what happened before they were born. hatred of germans and japanese died out in my grandfathers generation and Im not young. most young people in cambodia havent heard of pol pot as far as I can tell. sure there is racism, but I doubt, unless they are elderly, any vietnamese have a grudge against the french or americans in particular these days

Yinn · September 3, 2019

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

As a student of history I know exactly what the French got up to in Indochina ,

Good, you understand.

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

not good and no surprise that the vietnamese people fought for independence.

So there may well be some lingering resentment towards the French but NOT towards every white skinned westerner.

I am certain that the tourist guide did not use the expression Farang , its

Correct.

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

not a word in common usage in Vietnam and in any case I doubt that he is as ignorant as you clearly are.

If you mean French then say French , mean American then say American , saying Farang is simply stupid.

If I look somebody, how I know if from USA or France? Look same.

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

Dont you realise that everybody is a foreigner the minute they set foot outside of their own country , even you Yinn.

If I dont like Thais , I say I dont like Thais ( though I wouldn't because its moronic to make sweeping generalisations) I dont say I hate all Asians !

Some people hate asians. Some people hate black. Some people hate muslim.

I don’t hate anyone. But some people do.

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

Do you think all Asians are the same , have the same culture and beliefs , act the same , should Thailand be blamed for Japanese war atrocities.

Do you understand now ?

No

drbeach · September 3, 2019

On 9/1/2019 at 4:24 PM, NCC1701A said:

when i was in Saigon I was thanked for my country trying to help defeat the north. And was told most people don't even remember the war it was so long ago.

ironically, Vietnam is expanding their military to fight the Communist Chinese aggression in SEA. Thailand is inviting the Chinese in by the car loads. Good luck with that.

You mean plane loads. Also the Indians.

drbeach · September 3, 2019

13 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Good, you understand.

Correct.

If I look somebody, how I know if from USA or France? Look same.

Some people hate asians. Some people hate black. Some people hate muslim.

I don’t hate anyone. But some people do.

No

Most educated people can tell the difference between westerners just as they can between Asians. Cambodians have double eyelids for example, while Burmese could be anything from dark skinned Indian looking people to lighter skinned Chinese looking ones.

Westerners too - plenty of different hair colors and the accents or languages spoken alone should give you an idea. If anything, Asians look more similar to each other than westerners do, mainly due to Asians all having the same hair color. Of course since you think there is such a thing as "phasaa farang" you can't distinguish between French and English, let alone any other language.

Yinn · September 3, 2019

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Wow.

That's really very weak.

Who is they?

Today's tourists and expats in Vietnam, all that happen to have white skin, killed his family?

Seriously?

That is what he say.

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Do you even have a clue about the concept of racism?

Yes. It like when you go kill people in the other country because you don’t agree with “communism” or religion. Like that.

or could be for “weapon of mass Destruction”. Think ok if you have that, but not ok other country have that. And they not have that.

or could be to attack afghan because Saudi guy live in Pakistan attack you.

or China because? I not know why? Money?

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

But you're right about one thing. I've had experiences abroad where the person I am talking to doesn't realize I'm American, and quite often they start spouting anti-American hatred.

I not hate USA.

But understand why my food guide does. Or other people. Iraq, ahghan, etc etc

if you kill the family, bomb my house this people will hate you. Normal feeling.

i like peaceful.

if not that reason why you think have “anti American hated”. I think it the reason.

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So you as a not farang would be in a much better position to hear how the people there really think.

Yes.

I think if farang want want to go vietnam, the south better.

jondoe18 · September 3, 2019

1 hour ago, Yinn said:

But understand why my food guide does. Or other people.

I have never encountered hatred against me in Vietnam, neither before nor after

asking about my nationality.

But many times traveling with my Thai girl around Asia I could see dislike

and even hatred towards her...when a local found out that she is Thai .

phkauf · September 3, 2019

4 hours ago, phycokiller said:

talk of past wars is a bit silly in my opinion, nobody really cares about what happened before they were born. hatred of germans and japanese died out in my grandfathers generation and Im not young. most young people in cambodia havent heard of pol pot as far as I can tell. sure there is racism, but I doubt, unless they are elderly, any vietnamese have a grudge against the french or americans in particular these days

I echo your point. I recently had a great chat with a young fellow over beers at our hotel and his grandfather was killed in the American War (as they refer to it). He had no hard feeling about America, we both agreed it was mess from both sides. What he really got worked up about was the Mother XXXX'in Chinese as he put it. Most Vietnamese I come across have the same feelings.

phycokiller · September 3, 2019

2 hours ago, drbeach said:

Cambodians have double eyelids for example

I think nearly all humans do, one for each eye

tifino · September 3, 2019

12 minutes ago, phycokiller said:

I think nearly all humans do, one for each eye

it is a popular operation for Thais to undergo... the farang eyelid crease

robsamui · September 3, 2019

15 hours ago, erinsf said:

I too would choose to live in BKK if, I could only because, it is more developed. I think though, a lot of what the author/poster has written about refers to Saigon which is the largest city (over 10 million residents and growing,) in Vietnam. There are lots of options from the beach to the mountains, to chose from. BKK is a much older international city...so, I understand why it is more developed. BUT, I am very protective of my love/hate motorbikes but, not Vietnam, relationship lol. I am not sure it will be able to BE A BANGKOK...without figuring out mass transit like BKK has. But, the MRT didn't open until 2004. I kind of believe this must have been posted awhile ago. So, I will update you all here. There are a number of 7-11's nowadays along with, Family Mart and Circle K's. Yes, traffic is a nightmare and the pollution is on par with BKK but, it isn't as dreary as this posting makes it out to be. I do not recommend driving. Like BKK, there is a lot of building going on. I was walking around Ho Chi Minh Square last night and I was reminded of how vibrant and modern some areas of Saigon are. Back to driving... there is no need to drive. But, some people do. Transportation is accessible and affordable Grab Taxi, Be and new local 'taxi,' companies. It is REALLY CHEAP. And, driving is silly...in my opinion. There are no rules. Most persons on motorbikes do NOT hae a license and the fines for any violation...including killing someone are not worth it. Is it different than BKK, yes. It is a developing country as, they have been occupied by another country or, at war for much of the last few hundred years. It wasn't really until the early 1990s when they started interacting with other countries. And, it was in the last few years that a lot of the international relationships have started to blossom. Thailand is 1000 years old. And, they have it figured out a bit better in big city. Is Saigon nuts..yes. Is crime rampant? Well, it depends on what you consider rampant. There is petty theft and if you hold your phone out and take a selfie or, don't secure it ...someone will take it. Women should wear bags over their shoulders/chest. But, this is common sense in any city you go to. DaNang is a smaller city. There is some petty crime for sure but, more in the big city. In Saigon there has been some violent crime against women. There is also a great deal of domestic abuse in Vietnam but, the government is highlighting this and trying to change the story. ATMs are everywhere but, like this poster said...the amount of money each bank allows you take out changes from bank to bank. Citibank is the best...I think 6 million now. And, in my case....my US/International bank covers transaction fees. I hear this is common nowadays. Once you leave Saigon, the people are a lot more relaxed and it makes sense. It's crazy here. I love the Vietnamese I have met...for the most part. It takes only one meeting to be invited home to meet the extended family for many of my relationships. Are there people who aren't friendly in Thailand, the USA, France? Yes...Vietnam too. Housing ....the poster is correct...a 'one bedroom' apartment is often, a studio. And, I have noticed on numerous occasions, the photos do not match the apartment. They are not new. They are not big. They are not stocked with all the pots and pans you need. Though, a number of 'serviced apartments,' in BKK have not been stocked well, either. I have purchased lots of kitchen equipment during my time in SE Asia. I do love a serviced apartment though and they are abundant in Vietnam. Saigon is stupid expensive these days but, DaNang and Hoi An are more affordable and really, nicer places to settle down. The motorbikes drive on sidewalks everywhere but, it is more prevalent in Saigon and Hanoi and it DRIVES ME NUTs. The motorbike issue is one of my greatest complaints. I think in general, I enjoy living in Bangkok more because, it is more developed for walkers, shoppers and eating out. There are new dining options every year in Vietnam...with more choices for cuisine. A lot of the restaurants are very good. You can also eat well/cheap on the streets. There are number of international shops in Saigon and Hanoi nowadays (Gap, H&M, make-up, Versace, Banana Republic, Zara et al.) Vietnam has changed a lot in the past 5 years I have lived or, visited here. Some changes are good...some bad. The biggest complaint I have is the traffic. I hate the motorbikes. There are more and more each day, month and year lol. There are not many rules which I can tell. They drive through lights, don't stop before they turn, drive in the opposite direction, drive in sidewalks and basically....pedestrians walk at their own risk. The pecking order...TRUCKS (they honk but, don't stop, BUSES (also do not stop,,) cars, motorbikes, bicycles and then...pedestrians. And, there is a lack of optional road crossing like there is in BKK. BUT, when it comes to smaller places to live, DaNang and Hoi An are more interesting in many ways than, Chiang Mai for example. DaNang has a million people and it is spread out. While, Hoi An is smaller and more charming and has great restaurants, charming old city, good beaches et al. Vietnam is transitioning from the wild-wild-west to a dynamic country. It is going to take time. the USA, European countries, China/Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur et al...took a long time to get where they are today. If you have to move somewhere try Hanoi if you want a big city. It is a bit more tame and developed simply because, the seat of government is there and it's older. Or, try DaNang or Hoi An. If you want small, try Dalat..its also more temperate as, its in the mountains.

for God's sake learn about paragraphs.

balo · September 3, 2019

Having lived in both Vietnam and Cambodia, I would choose Phnom Penh over HCM or Hanoi.
Easier to get a 1 year visa through an agent, and then you just adapt to the city life. Lots of great restaurants , French and Khmer food.
I would still miss Bangkok . But personally I don't have to worry about moving.

Kaoboi Bebobp · September 4, 2019

On 9/3/2019 at 6:13 PM, phkauf said:

I echo your point. I recently had a great chat with a young fellow over beers at our hotel and his grandfather was killed in the American War (as they refer to it). He had no hard feeling about America, we both agreed it was mess from both sides. What he really got worked up about was the Mother XXXX'in Chinese as he put it. Most Vietnamese I come across have the same feelings.

They sure do. A Viet waitress in Saigon told me outright, "they are trying to kill us." This was after a discussion about contaminated food secreted into VN from China. Over time, I learned not to mention the Chinese.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Kaoboi Bebobp

Des Pickable · September 4, 2019

There are no 7-11’s in Vietnam!

obviously a load of

first sightings

up this street recognise the trees and the "building" sign

https://www.google.com/maps/@10.7704433,106.6881108,3a,75y,296.84h,100.9t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAF1QipMbLjjjfyvPIyHUy2l7fwKJ1EH0ZhEdC1UWNARb!2e10!3e11!7i6430!8i3215

Edited September 4, 2019 by Des Pickable
changed google maps

robsamui · September 6, 2019

On 9/4/2019 at 6:50 PM, Des Pickable said:

There are no 7-11’s in Vietnam!

obviously a load of

first sightings

up this street recognise the trees and the "building" sign

https://www.google.com/maps/@10.7704433,106.6881108,3a,75y,296.84h,100.9t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAF1QipMbLjjjfyvPIyHUy2l7fwKJ1EH0ZhEdC1UWNARb!2e10!3e11!7i6430!8i3215

That's absolutely fabulous! Thank you so much! I'll book a flight and a hotel straight away!

You must have very little nous if you don't realise that sending me a GPS location TO A 7-11 only emphasises my point that in Vietnam 7-11s are about as common as tits on a bull.

????????????????????

Edited September 6, 2019 by robsamui

BritManToo · September 6, 2019

On 9/4/2019 at 4:57 AM, balo said:

Having lived in both Vietnam and Cambodia, I would choose Phnom Penh over HCM or Hanoi.
Easier to get a 1 year visa through an agent, and then you just adapt to the city life. Lots of great restaurants , French and Khmer food.
I would still miss Bangkok . But personally I don't have to worry about moving.

Lots of decent Indian restaurants as well.

Not to mention you can get cannabis as a pizza topping.

Edited September 6, 2019 by BritManToo

mrmalkovich · September 6, 2019

US citizen running a company in Hanoi going on two years now. My two cents.

Crime - knock on wood, but in Hanoi at least, I haven't heard about any kind of crime or robbery from foreign or Vietnamese friends. I hear HCMC is the place to go for all that. Similarly, travel blogs will tell you that Hanoi is the home of swindlers and scammers, but I haven't seen any of that either.

Pollution - it's bad. Just had a fire at a light bulb factory here the other day and now we're all just trying to figure out how much the government is lying to us about it. Mercury in the air is apparently not a good thing. And this is just an exotic event - on an average day Hanoi is top ten for air pollution, and quite often number one.

Food - not that great in my opinion, and nowhere near as tasty as Thai food. A Vietnamese friend told me it's basically war food - that's why everything is boiled to hell and there are a ton of sauces, to help people muscle down food that was otherwise unedible. Theoretically their food is healthier than Thai food but in reality much of the food is contaminated with whatever's in the ground and/or whatever the Chinese sprayed on it to make it grow faster. That's why my Viet friends all tell me to never buy the weirdly goodlooking eerily cheap meat and veg the friendly grandmother is selling in front of my house, and go to the supermarket instead, or best of all, find someone who has relatives out of town with a farm and buy food from them. And yes, dog meat is very easy to find, as is cat meat, rat meat, and yes, dogs are stolen for food. I tried dog meat. And that's when I learned that for some reason there is no quicker way to <deleted> off a white person than tell them you tried dog meat.

Traffic - completely insane. I don't, and will never, ride a bike here. I pony up for two to five cab rides a day and it costs me $5 to $20 USD. I consider it a form of health insurance, in that bikes are the quickest way to get hurt around here, and I'll do anything to stay out of Vietnamese hospitals. The best hospitals in town are extremely cheap, but if <deleted> hits the fan you may not end up in the best hospital in town but in one where everything is dirty and nobody speaks your language. Good luck with that. I've seen dead people. Everyone laughs at me for not driving. Then they have their accident. Everyone I know has had a bike accident. Don't even WALK, let alone ride a bike during rush hour - bikes will flood the sidewalks and they won't have much to say if they hit you. Hitting each other out here is just fair game. You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. I'll say this about Hanoi traffic - it looks bad but it actually moves much faster than, say, BKK traffic. Grab is cheap, taxis are just as cheap, they'll be at your doorstep in minutes. the whole country runs on bikes and there are obviously plenty of people still alive. But my advice: don't play with your life if you can afford not to.

Noise - generally very loud people, but I enjoy that. Much prefer it to a country full of very quiet people. They are gregarious. Hanoian people are generally genuine, decent, family oriented people who love to be together. They live in the streets. They wake up at dawn and they're in the streets until late night doing everything - sleeping, eating, getting haircuts, shooting the breeze, whatever. That kind of life ain't a quiet one, and for one I'm glad people have a pulse around here. And it helps to choose your home here wisely. I live in a neighborhood full of family and children and I'm the loudest person there. Also helps to choose your home wisely as I hear some landlords can be complete bastards here and there's nothing anyone will do about it. Not one of my problems, again, knock on wood.

Language barrier - cannot be overstated. If you live in the foreigner ghetto Tay Ho you will be kiiiiiind of okaaaaay squeaking by without knowing Vietnamese but you will basically be completely on the outside looking in, and if you live anywhere but that you will be a total astronaut, on your own. I'm learning Vietnamese, and I swing between acceptance and serious frustration that every time I try to say ANYTHING everyone looks at me like someone just farted and shrugs. If you came here alone, as I did, you will feel isolated, alone. Maybe like me you'll try to do something about it and learn, but that in a weird way can make it almost feel worse at times because it's when you try that you see how <deleted> hard it actually really is and is going to continue to be for a LONG time. But that was the moment when I realized I don't like an easy life. I enjoy a challenging life. And Vietnam gives me a rewarding challenge. I have a window on a lifestyle I think few people who aren't Vietnamese have ever seen. I'm watching a country run top speed out of total poverty into the fastest growing economy there is. This place is bursting with opportunity. And, most importantly for me, it is safe. Just make sure you have something to do when you come here.

Friends, nightlife - I can only speak for Hanoi. HCMC seems to be a lot of fun, a much more familiar kind of fun. Hanoi is FASCINATING. And to be sure, there are clubs and bars and all manner of dodgy places far dodgier than what Thailand probably allows these days, all over this city. Korean and Chinese and Japanese businessmen come here in droves along with hordes of other shady characters from all over the place and the things they're into probably put beer and hookers to shame. That's one of the things about Hanoi: living in a place where you just know that things you can't even imagine are going on all around you. But the actual clubs are a bit juvenile, bars are either glorified restaurants (read: no actual bar beyond a long high bench where waiters shuttle drinks from) or pubs that are divey in all the bad ways. Social life here, for me at least, is a binary: either I'm with all the young white english teachers pounding beers and watching them do questionable drugs or I'm sitting on a children's plastic stool with Vietnamese people looking at my phone and eating pumpkin seeds. I realize this probably speaks more to my mindstate as much as anything else: I'm sure there are plenty of other things to do here. But it's never been this hard for me to find places where everyone mingles - foreigners and locals - and has a few drinks and just enjoys their lives, and I've lived all over the world. Last but certainly not least, yes, a LOT of the booze and drugs are fake - as is most of the medicine you see in all those extra convenient pharmacies all over the place - and they will kill you. Every year they are pulling bodies out of the farang festivals here. I bought some cheap booze here and still have tingles in my fingers a year later. Be discriminating.

Attitude to foreigners - I am not American blooded or born in America but I have an American accent and attitude and am immediately clocked as American everywhere I go here. In my face, these people are either completely indifferent to my being American or are extremely supportive (Hanoi is still the only place where I ran into a taxi driver who said he was a Trump supporter). I'm pretty sure many of them will talk badly about Americans to each other, or to pretty Thai girls like Yinn when they want to keep the conversation going. But it's just not an issue here, and in HCMC the attitude not uncommonly borders on pro-American. Vietnamese are very proud to be independent and rightly so. At the same time they idolize anything South Korean and will do anything short of almost killing themselves to move there, yet if the Americans had won, Vietnam might be kind of like South Korea is now. The attitudes from north Vietnamese towards south Vietnamese are much less friendly than the attitudes from Vietnamese to Americans, although they reserve the worst for the Chinese, by a mile. People harping about the American War are missing the point - this was a civil war first, Vietnamese killing Vietnamese and plenty of them too, and very little of that is forgotten.

Cheap - yes. If you find anywhere cheaper than Vietnam on this planet, duck. They're probably about to start shooting.

Edited September 6, 2019 by mrmalkovich

robsamui · September 6, 2019

8 minutes ago, mrmalkovich said:

US citizen running a company in Hanoi going on two years now. My two cents.

Thanks for this - relaxed, perceptive and full of info and insights.

8 minutes ago, mrmalkovich said:

Crime - knock on wood, but in Hanoi at least, I haven't heard about any kind of crime or robbery from foreign or Vietnamese friends. I hear HCMC is the place to go for all that. Similarly, travel blogs will tell you that Hanoi is the home of swindlers and scammers, but I haven't seen any of that either.

I think a lot of it is about the area you're in and the density of housing. I was talking to a woman here and she told me that in her family's area of the city it's more open and on the fringe and there's hardly any crime. But when she moved into the center it was a different story.

8 minutes ago, mrmalkovich said:

Pollution - it's bad. Just had a fire at a light bulb factory here the other day and now we're all just trying to figure out how much the government is lying to us about it. Mercury in the air is apparently not a good thing. And this is just an exotic event - on an average day Hanoi is top ten for air pollution, and quite often number one.

Yes - it seems to be a LOT worse than Thailand.

8 minutes ago, mrmalkovich said:

Food - not that great in my opinion, and nowhere near as tasty as Thai food. A Vietnamese friend told me it's basically war food - that's why everything is boiled to hell and there are a ton of sauces, to help people muscle down food that was otherwise unedible. Theoretically their food is healthier than Thai food but in reality much of the food is contaminated with whatever's in the ground and/or whatever the Chinese sprayed on it to make it grow faster. That's why my Viet friends all tell me to never buy the weirdly goodlooking eerily cheap meat and veg the friendly grandmother is selling in front of my house, and go to the supermarket instead, or best of all, find someone who has relatives out of town with a farm and buy food from them.

Does this apply to the big food markets too? The supermarket produce looks superb but is a lot more expensive.

8 minutes ago, mrmalkovich said:

Traffic - completely insane. I don't, and will never, ride a bike here. I pony up for two to five cab rides a day and it costs me $5 to $20 USD. I consider it a form of health insurance, in that bikes are the quickest way to get hurt around here, and I'll do anything to stay out of Vietnamese hospitals. The best hospitals in town are extremely cheap, but if <deleted> hits the fan you may not end up in the best hospital in town but in one where everything is dirty and nobody speaks your language. Good luck with that. I've seen dead people. Everyone laughs at me for not driving. Then they have their accident. Everyone I know has had a bike accident. Don't even WALK, let alone ride a bike during rush hour - bikes will flood the sidewalks and they won't have much to say if they hit you. Hitting each other out here is just fair game. You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. I'll say this about Hanoi traffic - it looks bad but it actually moves much faster than, say, BKK traffic. Grab is cheap, taxis are just as cheap, they'll be at your doorstep in minutes. the whole country runs on bikes and there are obviously plenty of people still alive. But my advice: don't play with your life if you can afford not to.

Absolutely agree with everything here. I use my mbike to go to the local shops and eateries only - never more than a kilometer, and it's on the outskirts of the city. If I am ever going 3 or 4 Km I'll take a Grab. (The grab bikes are really cheap.) My thoughts on this is that you have to grow up with these road conditions and absorb them as you would do a language. The constant beeping of horns is a kind of mutual radar device that the locals are instinctively tuned to, like wheeling bats. For a foreigner it's the absolute opposite of everything they know and have been taught, and it scares the hell out of me.

8 minutes ago, mrmalkovich said:

Noise - generally very loud people, but I enjoy that. Much prefer it to a country full of very quiet people. They are gregarious. And it helps to choose your home here wisely. I live in a neighborhood full of family and children and I'm the loudest person there. Also helps to choose your home wisely as I hear some landlords can be complete bastards here and there's nothing anyone will do about it. Not one of my problems, again, knock on wood.

Noise physically damages me - headaches and ear and even tooth aches. Loud shrill noises particularly. I'm learning to live

with it!

8 minutes ago, mrmalkovich said:

Language barrier - cannot be overstated. If you live in the foreigner ghetto Tay Ho you will be kiiiiiind of okaaaaay squeaking by without knowing Vietnamese but you will basically be completely on the outside looking in, and if you live anywhere but that you will be a total astronaut, on your own. I'm learning Vietnamese, and I swing between acceptance and serious frustration that every time I try to say ANYTHING everyone looks at me like someone just farted and shrugs. If you came here alone, as I did, you will feel isolated, alone. Maybe like me you'll try to do something about it and learn, but that in a weird way can make it almost feel worse at times because it's when you try that you see how <deleted> hard it actually really is and is going to continue to be for a LONG time. But that was the moment when I realized I don't like an easy life. I enjoy a challenging life. And Vietnam gives me a rewarding challenge.

I spent 22 years in Thailand and at the end of that time could speak Thai like a small child. I'm making no attempt at all to learn Vietnamese as it's as insane as the traffic - although the numbers are important and I'll make an effort at them. Google Translate gets me by on the rest of daily needs . . .

8 minutes ago, mrmalkovich said:

Friends, nightlife - I can only speak for Hanoi. HCMC seems to be a lot of fun, a much more familiar kind of fun. Hanoi is FASCINATING. And to be sure, there are clubs and bars and all manner of dodgy places far dodgier than what Thailand probably allows these days, all over this city. Korean and Chinese and Japanese businessmen come here in droves along with hordes of other shady characters from all over the place and the things they're into probably put beer and hookers to shame. That's one of the things about Hanoi: living in a place where you just know that things you can't even imagine are going on all around you. But the actual clubs are a bit juvenile, bars are either glorified restaurants (read: no actual bar beyond a long high bench where waiters shuttle drinks from) or pubs that are divey in all the bad ways. Social life here, for me at least, is a binary: either I'm with all the young white english teachers pounding beers and watching them do questionable drugs or I'm sitting on a children's plastic stool with Vietnamese people looking at my phone and eating pumpkin seeds. I realize this probably speaks more to my mindstate as much as anything else: I'm sure there are plenty of other things to do here. But it's never been this hard for me to find places where everyone mingles - foreigners and locals - and has a few drinks and just enjoys their lives, and I've lived all over the world. Last but certainly not least, yes, a LOT of the booze and drugs are fake - as is most of the medicine you see in all those extra convenient pharmacies all over the place - and they will kill you. Every year they are pulling bodies out of the farang festivals here. I bought some cheap booze here and still have tingles in my fingers a year later. Be discriminating.

Some things for me to consider here . . .

8 minutes ago, mrmalkovich said:

Attitude to foreigners - I am not American blooded or born in America but I have an American accent and attitude and am immediately clocked as American everywhere I go here. In my face, these people are either completely indifferent to my being American or are extremely supportive (Hanoi is still the only place where I ran into a taxi driver who said he was a Trump supporter). I'm pretty sure many of them will talk badly about Americans to each other, or to pretty Thai girls like Yinn when they want to keep the conversation going. But it's just not an issue here, and in HCMC the attitude not uncommonly borders on pro-American. Vietnamese are very proud to be independent and rightly so. At the same time they idolize anything South Korean and will do anything short of almost killing themselves to move there, yet if the Americans had won, Vietnam might be kind of like South Korea is now. The attitudes from north Vietnamese towards south Vietnamese are much less friendly than the attitudes from Vietnamese to Americans, although they reserve the worst for the Chinese, by a mile. People harping about the American War are missing the point - this was a civil war first, Vietnamese killing Vietnamese and plenty of them too, and very little of that is forgotten.

I've found that it's only the older and more provincial Viets who ignore me - even to the point of pretending I'm not there. In the 5 months I've been here (in 4 cities) I've only ever encountered foreigner-hatred once - and that was from a teenager!

8 minutes ago, mrmalkovich said:

Cheap - yes. If you find anywhere cheaper than Vietnam on this planet, you should be worried. Something's not right.

I'm 70, I came here to retire, I'm happy with my own company, don't need the re-assurance of acquaintances around me and I'm never bored. I'm enjoying watching and learning the new culture and different behaviour-patterns, and am in no rush to get out and about.

I'm on a small pension - which was becoming tighter and tighter in Thailand (not to mention the increasing silliness of more and more new immigration rules) - and find that the overall cost of living here is between half and two-thirds of that which it was in Thailand. Added to which I can afford to fly back to Tland every 90 days to enjoy the food and warmth of the people for a few days. It suits me!

newcomer01 · September 6, 2019

Are you a complete moron or just a misguided nationalistic stooge ?
The gentleman is from the UK which played no part in the Vietnam war.
If you are going to lump all Farangs together then lets do the same for all asians ok.
Do the Chinese hate the Thais because the Japanese raped their women and slaughtered them indiscriminately ?
Of course they dont , but by grouping races together that is exactly the inference you suggest.
For goodness sake educate yourself and engage your brain before writing any more ignorant nonsense.

After Japan capitulated the British occupied Vietnam. Even using the Japanese to keep the locals under control. Then the British handed it to the French. Colonists. We know what happened after that. Very sad for the people.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

IraqRon · September 6, 2019

On 9/4/2019 at 6:50 PM, Des Pickable said:

There are no 7-11’s in Vietnam!

obviously a load of

first sightings

up this street recognise the trees and the "building" sign

https://www.google.com/maps/@10.7704433,106.6881108,3a,75y,296.84h,100.9t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAF1QipMbLjjjfyvPIyHUy2l7fwKJ1EH0ZhEdC1UWNARb!2e10!3e11!7i6430!8i3215

yeez where is all the trash and traffic and etc. etc. the Viet bashers talked about? I see a clean street, trees, and no stray dogs or trash, not to mention street walkers hanging out.

RocketDog · September 7, 2019

On 9/1/2019 at 4:12 PM, Yinn said:

So now your life have many problems. But is cheaper.

Maybe you can find the cheaper worse country and be more happy. Ethiopia is very cheap.

Good luck Rob.

The other thred talk about all the farang in Thailand will leave to go live in Vietnam.

How many really go?

i think they not like the farang? Because you killed there grandfather, rape the grandmother and bomb there house. Burn the village.

i go there before. Is interesting.

But....

the people spit INSIDE the restaurant, bar, etc. Yuk.

And not smile. Not “ow jai”

A Thai person who doesn't like Vietnamese people? What a surprise.

Getting past that I will infer that the killing /raping/bombing/burning is referring to the USA involvement in the war in the 1960's. I have not noticed any farang burning/bombing villages, killing grandmothers, or raping grandfathers when I was there two years ago.

First, I am American and the right age to have been in that war. I wasn't, but in the three weeks I was there only one very old woman scowled at me.

Actually the population in VN is very young with most of them being born after that war. They welcome interaction with Americans and are very friendly. The young hold no grudges against foreigners as you apparently do.

So you are wrong about all that part, but thanks for sharing your bigotry and naiveté with the forum.

Now we are more able than before to understand where some of your confused and derogatory posts are coming from.

Thanks for the entertainment. ????

sanemax · September 7, 2019

20 hours ago, IraqRon said:

yeez where is all the trash and traffic and etc. etc. the Viet bashers talked about? I see a clean street, trees, and no stray dogs or trash, not to mention street walkers hanging out.

although that is just one small segment of one street .

it could be that some of the others streets were congested .
or do you think that the posters who have mentioned Vietnam congested streets were all lying and just bashing Vietnam ?

watcharacters · September 7, 2019

On 9/1/2019 at 4:12 PM, Yinn said:

So now your life have many problems. But is cheaper.

Maybe you can find the cheaper worse country and be more happy. Ethiopia is very cheap.

Good luck Rob.

The other thred talk about all the farang in Thailand will leave to go live in Vietnam.

How many really go?

i think they not like the farang? Because you killed there grandfather, rape the grandmother and bomb there house. Burn the village.

i go there before. Is interesting.

But....

the people spit INSIDE the restaurant, bar, etc. Yuk.

And not smile. Not “ow jai”

Cheer up, Yinn.

albertik · September 7, 2019

Do the Vietnamese still drive with headlights off at night? A long time ago that was standard operating procedure.

Vacuum · September 7, 2019

On 9/4/2019 at 11:50 AM, Des Pickable said:

first sightings

Is that a drunk sleeping it off behind the tree?

Edited September 7, 2019 by Vacuum

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