Do they make it difficult on purpose?

[ChiangMaiThai]

Lived here 20 years. Still can't get over how difficult the system is for your average person trying to run a business or even just go about their personal lives in peace.

 

1. I ordered a couple bottles of Visine on Amazon as my eyes get irritated in the polluted air. I'm now submitting multiple documents and POA and passport copies all to the FDA to request an official waiver to allow this dangerous drug into the Kingdom. Seriously <deleted>?

 

2. I started a company. Process took over a year including getting WP. Well over a hundred documents signed to register for VAT and declare my company address and purpose. Another 100 signed to open a bank account. Now that I have the account, a secured credit card is impossible. Why? The bank can't lose and will only make fees. Easily 200,000 Baht spent so far on all kinds of fees in relation to the opening of the company.

 

Why not streamline the process and actually encourage commerce here? My assumption is that the guys at the top aren't affected by any of this and simply don't care.

[donnacha]

The individual government departments are ego-fueled fiefdoms, who care more about their own revenue generation or simply asserting their own importance by making you jump through hoops. Any notion of the greater national good is irrelevant.

Case in point: they spend hundreds of millions of dollars every marketing "Amazing Thailand" in western countries, but then allow their credibility and reputation to be thrashed by individual ignorant airport IOs and corrupt policemen.

Singapore has thrived more than any other country in the region because they had competent leadership with a cohesive vision of the type of state they wanted to be.

[ChiangMaiThai]

45 minutes ago, donnacha said:

The individual government departments are ego-fueled fiefdoms, who care more about their own revenue generation or simply asserting their own importance by making you jump through hoops. Any notion of the greater national good is irrelevant.

Case in point: they spend hundreds of millions of dollars every marketing "Amazing Thailand" in western countries, but then allow their credibility and reputation to be thrashed by individual ignorant airport IOs and corrupt policemen.

Singapore has thrived more than any other country in the region because they had competent leadership with a cohesive vision of the type of state they wanted to be.

I think you nailed it. They should look at Singapore and be genuinely embarrassed.  

[henry2109]

No, they definitely do not make in difficult on purpose. They cannot do better. If it comes better, it is an exemption (to the rule).

 

It is a mixture of ignorance, incompetence, unconcern. It takes decades to change this. Singapore is not comparable to Thailand, its a differend mindset, anchored deeply in their gens. So live with it and adapt.

[1FinickyOne]

10 minutes ago, ChiangMaiThai said:

They should look at Singapore and be genuinely embarrassed.

only if they want to be like Singapore... a very rigid place... not sure why people here expect Thailand to be like other places in just the ways they like..

 

it sounds reasonable to me that you can choose the place you want to be, rather than change or complain abt the place you are at... 

[ChiangMaiThai]

14 hours ago, kenk24 said:

only if they want to be like Singapore... a very rigid place... not sure why people here expect Thailand to be like other places in just the ways they like..

 

it sounds reasonable to me that you can choose the place you want to be, rather than change or complain abt the place you are at... 

I'm not saying destroy Thai culture and language and way of life and replace with some 1984 style sterile regime. I'm saying the Thai system makes it incredibly tedious to get anything done, especially when it comes to business. If they care about their people, the guys at the top should want Thailand to be as business friendly as possible. 

[1FinickyOne]

7 hours ago, ChiangMaiThai said:

incredibly tedious to get anything done, especially when it comes to business.

for you? maybe? and yet in my village any poor Thai can open a convenience store in their living room or a soup restaurant in front of their house seemingly at the drop of a hat... people can ride around on motorcycles selling food or walk between the lanes of traffic at a red light... 

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

7 hours ago, ChiangMaiThai said:

replace with some 1984 style sterile regime.

and you did cite Singapore as what Thailand should be like.. 

[Pravda]

23 hours ago, ChiangMaiThai said:

Lived here 20 years. Still can't get over how

 

Why do you bother? Have a family here?

[jackdd]

On 2/25/2020 at 4:47 PM, ChiangMaiThai said:

Lived here 20 years. Still can't get over how difficult the system is for your average person trying to run a business or even just go about their personal lives in peace.

For the average person it's very easy to run a business here.

A foreigner is not the average person.

 

23 hours ago, ChiangMaiThai said:

If they care about their people, the guys at the top should want Thailand to be as business friendly as possible. 

After 20 years you should have learned that they don't care about their people, all they care about is getting as rich as possible.

[ChiangMaiThai]

19 hours ago, Pravda said:

 

Why do you bother? Have a family here?

Yep.

[ChiangMaiThai]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

For the average person it's very easy to run a business here.

A foreigner is not the average person.

 

After 20 years you should have learned that they don't care about their people, all they care about is getting as rich as possible.

Yes I've learned. Just here venting. Story number 3 for you. I ordered some vitamins from Amazon worth $58. UPS contacts me today to tell me that the only way they will be released is if I provide my passport to a messenger who will take it to register for e-customs or something. But I'm not in Bangkok. So they told me in accordance with their policies the package cannot be delivered or returned and will be destroyed. Amazing Thailand.

[ChiangMaiThai]

19 hours ago, kenk24 said:

and you did cite Singapore as what Thailand should be like.. 

Ok, let's take this one step at a time for you. 

 

Is it in the interest of the Thai leadership for the economy to perform well and its citizens to be satisfied? Of course the answer is yes. 

 

So why are they attached to an Indian style bureaucracy that prevents business from running efficiently, demonstrated by the fact that almost no multinational has HQ in BKK and instead has chosen Singapore? 

 

Yes, in your village you can go to Lotus and buy a 248 pack of Lay's and sell them for 8 Baht each in front of your house. Provides a huge boost to the economy I'm sure.

 

[jackdd]

6 minutes ago, ChiangMaiThai said:

Yes I've learned. Just here venting. Story number 3 for you. I ordered some vitamins from Amazon worth $58. UPS contacts me today to tell me that the only way they will be released is if I provide my passport to a messenger who will take it to register for e-customs or something. But I'm not in Bangkok. So they told me in accordance with their policies the package cannot be delivered or returned and will be destroyed. Amazing Thailand.

Why don't you inform yourself before ordering things abroad?

The problem with customs clearance when using a courier like UPS has been discussed here on Thaivisa many times. Always use regular post, never a courier.

For importing vitamins into Thailand you need an import license from the FDA, which you are not able to get in your situation. Even if you were in Bangkok you would most likely not get this package.

[ChiangMaiThai]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Why don't you inform yourself before ordering things abroad?

The problem with customs clearance when using a courier like UPS has been discussed here on Thaivisa many times. Always use regular post, never a courier.

For importing vitamins into Thailand you need an import license from the FDA, which you are not able to get in your situation. Even if you were in Bangkok you would most likely not get this package.

My mistake. Didn't realize amazon was sending by UPS. Usually use iherb, which takes 3 weeks, but makes it through. And yes, I am currently petitioning the Thai FDA to release 3 bottles of Visine eye drops as they have classified this a drug under their authority. Pretty major case for the department I am sure.

[scorecard]

On 2/25/2020 at 9:07 PM, donnacha said:

The individual government departments are ego-fueled fiefdoms, who care more about their own revenue generation or simply asserting their own importance by making you jump through hoops. Any notion of the greater national good is irrelevant.

Case in point: they spend hundreds of millions of dollars every marketing "Amazing Thailand" in western countries, but then allow their credibility and reputation to be thrashed by individual ignorant airport IOs and corrupt policemen.

Singapore has thrived more than any other country in the region because they had competent leadership with a cohesive vision of the type of state they wanted to be.

"...Singapore has thrived more than any other country in the region because they had competent leadership with a cohesive vision of the type of state they wanted to be..."

 

Very true...

 

[seancbk]

3 hours ago, ChiangMaiThai said:

My mistake. Didn't realize amazon was sending by UPS. Usually use iherb, which takes 3 weeks, but makes it through. And yes, I am currently petitioning the Thai FDA to release 3 bottles of Visine eye drops as they have classified this a drug under their authority. Pretty major case for the department I am sure.

 

Why not order Visine from Lazada? (if you really can't be bothered going to any local pharmacy for it) 

https://www.lazada.co.th/catalog/?q=visine

 

[LukKrueng]

3 hours ago, ChiangMaiThai said:

Yes I've learned. Just here venting. Story number 3 for you. I ordered some vitamins from Amazon worth $58. UPS contacts me today to tell me that the only way they will be released is if I provide my passport to a messenger who will take it to register for e-customs or something. But I'm not in Bangkok. So they told me in accordance with their policies the package cannot be delivered or returned and will be destroyed. Amazing Thailand.

I think it's "amazing" UPS. Same goes for Amazon. Wanted to order something - very small, costs about US$70. At checkout they added "presumed customs". I had the same item sent to me from Europe and from Australia by post few times and never was stopped at customs - just delivered to my home.

[3421abc]

move to Vietnam, takes 3 months tops to get set up and work permit w resident card. 1000usd get it done easy

[KhaoYai]

On 2/25/2020 at 10:07 AM, donnacha said:

Singapore has thrived more than any other country in the region because they had competent leadership with a cohesive vision of the type of state they wanted to be.

Yes, and they recognised early on that English is the language of business and made use of the language a priority. I believe that the use of English is now compulsory in their schools and pupils are not allowed to use any other langauge within school boundaries. Compare that with Thailand's attitude to English................

 

However, on the subject of starting a Ltd company and Thai bureaucracy in general, we need to realise that foreigners are not the only people that have problems. Ask your partner about the reams of paperwork and  photocopies they need to get anything done.

[shy coconut]

5 hours ago, ChiangMaiThai said:

Ok, let's take this one step at a time for you. 

 

Is it in the interest of the Thai leadership for the economy to perform well and its citizens to be satisfied? Of course the answer is yes. 

 

So why are they attached to an Indian style bureaucracy that prevents business from running efficiently, demonstrated by the fact that almost no multinational has HQ in BKK and instead has chosen Singapore? 

 

Yes, in your village you can go to Lotus and buy a 248 pack of Lay's and sell them for 8 Baht each in front of your house. Provides a huge boost to the economy I'm sure.

It would be interesting to know what your economy boosting business idea is.

Plenty of multi national firms employ thousands of Thais making a big impact 

on the economy and employment situation. They seem to manage ok.

 

What's with making multiple vitamin and other medicinal items on the internet then

getting frustrated because the country has its own import laws, surely you would learn 

your lesson first time round.

[from the home of CC]

On 2/25/2020 at 6:07 PM, kenk24 said:

only if they want to be like Singapore... a very rigid place... not sure why people here expect Thailand to be like other places in just the ways they like..

 

it sounds reasonable to me that you can choose the place you want to be, rather than change or complain abt the place you are at... 

worked there 9 mos a few years back and was not impressed, be okay I guess if I was 12 years old and had no parents..

[NoshowJones]

Do they make it difficult on purpose?

The answer is yes, they do not know any other way, it gives them great power and amusement.

[DJ54]

Difficulty with bring in Visine May be due to woman spiked 

husbands drinks with eye drops and killed... 

[khunPer]

On 2/25/2020 at 10:47 AM, ChiangMaiThai said:

1. I ordered a couple bottles of Visine on Amazon as my eyes get irritated in the polluted air. I'm now submitting multiple documents and POA and passport copies all to the FDA to request an official waiver to allow this dangerous drug into the Kingdom. Seriously <deleted>?

Next time try Lazada...

Google search for "Visine Thailand" and this comes up, like here.

????

[khunPer]

On 2/25/2020 at 10:47 AM, ChiangMaiThai said:

2. I started a company. Process took over a year including getting WP. Well over a hundred documents signed to register for VAT and declare my company address and purpose. Another 100 signed to open a bank account. Now that I have the account, a secured credit card is impossible. Why? The bank can't lose and will only make fees. Easily 200,000 Baht spent so far on all kinds of fees in relation to the opening of the company.

Yes credit card for a company is difficult, or impossible – I just gave up before starting the process. You can instead use a personal credit card and be refunded by the company, or the company can deposit an allowance in a personal credit card; it's not that difficult after all.

 

I never had 100 papers to sign to establish a Thai company limited, nor to open a bank account for the company. A few papers for the company foundation, which is often around 50k baht (or less) to establish. A meting report for 500 baht for opening a bank account, and some papers to sign in the bank, Internat banking can be included in the same meeting report, but require more papers to sign in the bank; furthermore a less than 6 month old certified print of company registration, which an accountant often will arrange for another 500 baht.

 

Normally the accountant can take care of the WP process, if everything else is Okay – like company capital, and number of Thai employees, and job description – it's a fairly simple process. Fees can vary, but around 10k baht (plus/minus) seem to be going rate; I've seen it advertised for 5k baht.

????

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

8 hours ago, ChiangMaiThai said:

I am currently petitioning the Thai FDA to release 3 bottles of Visine eye drops as they have classified this a drug under their authority.

why would you import visine when you can find it in any drug store in thailand?

acctually thai customs are much easier than many other countries. and shipments

to thailand are much faster. 

but when you start importing medical stuff, things getting complicated, and rightly so.

 

[sanuk711]

On 2/25/2020 at 4:47 PM, ChiangMaiThai said:

2. I started a company. Process took over a year including getting WP. Well over a hundred documents signed to register for VAT and declare my company address and purpose. Another 100 signed to open a bank account. Now that I have the account, a secured credit card is impossible. Why? The bank can't lose and will only make fees. Easily 200,000 Baht spent so far on all kinds of fees in relation to the opening of the company.

Did you buy the tree a Fanta..........................

[advancebooking]

On 2/25/2020 at 5:07 PM, donnacha said:

The individual government departments are ego-fueled fiefdoms, who care more about their own revenue generation or simply asserting their own importance by making you jump through hoops

so true.... in particular asserting their own importance by their bs rules that they make up. 

[timendres]

Most of the road blocks you face were created decades ago when Thailand was still quite behind the times, feared competition, and needed to protect fledgling local businesses (and wealth). While that landscape has changed dramatically, the government is still stuck in the dark age, and will be for quite some time. The secret to managing this is to stop doing things on your own, and get local talent that can make things happen at reasonable prices. 120k THB and I had a company registered, company bank account, VAT tax ID, business visa, work permit, and one year extension - all painless and not one care on my part other than signing and chopping documents.  Not super cheap, but not outrageously expensive either.