Vaccines Not Looking Good...Only 30% Efficacy

[Jeffr2]

13 hours ago, Sambotte said:

Brutes numbers again ? Ok :

We should not put 99% people in misery and lockdown (diverses freedom privation) for the benefit (a few more years to live with pre-existing conditions for most cases) of 1% !

Follow what Taiwan did.  2 week lockdown for a small part of the population, masks, social distancing, contract tracing...and they are back to normal.  Not sure why other countries don't get it.  Or, CV19 deniers.

[placeholder]

23 hours ago, Mark Nothing said:

If you think about the concept of "vaccine" logically it is ludicrous to take a perfectly healthy person and inject a foreign substance into the body in the name of health.  It simply sucks the vitality and life out of you while the body attempts to erradicate the toxins leaving your body in a depleted state.  

It's extraordinary that any children survive their childhood.

[faraday]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It's extraordinary that any children survive their childhood.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042373/united-kingdom-all-time-infant-mortality-rate/#:~:text=The infant mortality rate in,this number has dropped significantly.

[placeholder]

The author of the article cited, Peter Doshi, is also sceptical of flu vaccines

http://theorcpa.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/John-Hopkins-Study.pdf

[Pattaya Spotter]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The author of the article cited, Peter Doshi, is also sceptical of flu vaccines

http://theorcpa.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/John-Hopkins-Study.pdf

Yes, Doshi points out in the article that despite wider uptake of the annual influenza vaccine over the years, the number of deaths per year is relatively constant. If I understand his argument, it's similar to the one he's making about the current round of SARS-CoV-2 vaccine trials...that they aren't being tested enough on people who are most susceptible to serious outcomes if they get the virus. 

[placeholder]

Just now, Pattaya Spotter said:

Yes, Doshi points out in the article that despite wider uptake of the annual influenza vaccine over the years, the number of deaths per year is relatively constant. If I understand his argument, it's similar to the one he's making about the current round of SARS-CoV-2 vaccine trials...that they aren't being tested enough on people who are most susceptible to serious outcomes if they get the virus. 

First off, whatever the article did say, it did not say 

"Vaccines Not Looking Good...Only 30% Efficacy"

Here's what it did say on that score:

"In a sobering essay, Doshi said those hoping for a breakthrough to end the pandemic would be disappointed, with some vaccines likely to reduce the risk of COVID-19 infection by only 30%."

 

 

[Pattaya Spotter]

55 minutes ago, placeholder said:

with some vaccines likely to reduce the risk of COVID-19 infection by only 30%

Yes, that's what 30% efficacy means...if you take the vaccine and are exposed to an infectious dose of the virus, you're 70% likely to get it and 30% not. I also posted the link to the original BMJ article, which I have read, for anyone who wanted to review the primary source material.

 

Do you have a "second off"?

Edited October 23, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[owl sees all]

Two sick and one dead in the Oxford trial.

[bartender100]

On 10/22/2020 at 1:47 PM, Mark Nothing said:

If you think about the concept of "vaccine" logically it is ludicrous to take a perfectly healthy person and inject a foreign substance into the body in the name of health.  It simply sucks the vitality and life out of you while the body attempts to erradicate the toxins leaving your body in a depleted state.  

 

Diseases You Almost Forgot About (Thanks to Vaccines)

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/forgot-14-diseases.html

 

Vaccines seemed to have worked very well in the past

[Nout]

On 10/22/2020 at 7:05 PM, Pattaya Spotter said:

Thalidomide is a drug, given to sick people, not a vaccine given to healthy people. The standards are different.

Absolute rubbish..Thalidomide was given to pregnant women in the 50s to prevent morning sickness which had dreadful side effects on their children

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Yes, that's what 30% efficacy means...if you take the vaccine and are exposed to an infectious dose of the virus, you're 70% likely to get it and 30% not. I also posted the link to the original BMJ article, which I have read, for anyone who wanted to review the primary source material.

 

Do you have a "second off"?

Do you understand what it means when he writes "some vaccines"? That it doesn't mean the same thing as all vaccines?

[nemo38]

I am never going to take an mRNA vaccine. I am not at risk and Covid isn't dangerous enough to justify the lockdowns we have seen.

 

I believe that Sweden exists and managed to get on with life without trashing their economy. 

 

We need to hold the Covid promoters to account, with life jail sentences and stiffer penalties.

[onebir]

34 minutes ago, nemo38 said:

I am never going to take an mRNA vaccine.

Has anyone seen an explanation of the supposed advantages of mRNA vaccines? (I'm wary of them too.)

 

35 minutes ago, nemo38 said:

I believe that Sweden exists and managed to get on with life without trashing their economy. 

New Zealand (with 25 deaths) has done far better than Sweden.

[Scott]

Off-topic meme removed.  This is a discussion forum.

 

[Pattaya Spotter]

9 hours ago, Nout said:

Absolute rubbish..Thalidomide was given to pregnant women in the 50s to prevent morning sickness which had dreadful side effects on their children

Drugs and vaccines are both therapies given to treat/prevent adverse medical conditions, and are throughly tested for safety before being used. However, drugs are generally given to already sick people and vaccines are given to healthy people to prevent illness/disease. The standards and ethics of using them are different for this reason. The experience with Thalidomide (drug) demonstrates why thorough safety testing is necessary before any Covid-19 vaccine is approved.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[Pattaya Spotter]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

Do you understand what it means when he writes "some vaccines"? That it doesn't mean the same thing as all vaccines?

Who said "all vaccines"? The author is referencing those currently in Phase 3 trials.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Who said "all vaccines"? The author is referencing those currently in Phase 3 trials.

Really? Where in the article does it say he is reference all those currently in Phase 3 trials?

"In a sobering essay, Doshi said those hoping for a breakthrough to end the pandemic would be disappointed, with some vaccines likely to reduce the risk of COVID-19 infection by only 30%."

 

[Pattaya Spotter]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? Where in the article does it say he is reference all those currently in Phase 3 trials?

"In a sobering essay, Doshi said those hoping for a breakthrough to end the pandemic would be disappointed, with some vaccines likely to reduce the risk of COVID-19 infection by only 30%."

 

Have you read the actual BMJ Doshi article...I have and that's where he makes the statement. That is what I am referring to.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[steelepulse]

This makes total sense to vaccinate everyone when the figures for people under 70 indicate a .05 ifr.  Why not vaccinate all the people that will simply fight off the virus and carry on with life?

 

https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

 

Profits before people!

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/23/2020 at 12:39 AM, BritManToo said:

Isn't that ZERO% efficiency?

Perhaps they cause a reduction in NONE serious outcomes?

[thaibeachlovers]

Some of us have been saying that the vaccine isn't necessarily going to be the magic bullet, and I'm wondering if one doesn't succeed what plan B is? Do they even have a plan B?

[Pattaya Spotter]

44 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Some of us have been saying that the vaccine isn't necessarily going to be the magic bullet, and I'm wondering if one doesn't succeed what plan B is? Do they even have a plan B?

Treatment of Covid-19 disease with mono/polyclonal antibody therapies (which Trump received) is one fallback.

[Surelynot]

15 hours ago, placeholder said:

On 10/22/2020 at 1:47 PM, Mark Nothing said:

If you think about the concept of "vaccine" logically it is ludicrous to take a perfectly healthy person and inject a foreign substance into the body in the name of health.  It simply sucks the vitality and life out of you while the body attempts to erradicate the toxins leaving your body in a depleted state.  

The toxins are produced by the live virus during a real infection, not by the immune system attacking an inert version of the virus....ie a vaccine 

[Chivas]

Reviweing all the articles on Astrazeneca and they are very close to giving the green light as early as 12th November.

Of course that wont open up Thailand overnight and obviously the vaccination programme will be huge but I for one will first in the queue at the earlist opportunity

 

Astrazeneca are always the Company that have sold the vaccine to Thailand already. Its clear the "market" knows as all travel stocks started to surge this week just gone

[Chivas]

Wheres the edit button gone lol ???

Apologies re the above post I assume its some system failure

[Pattaya Spotter]

26 minutes ago, Chivas said:

Wheres the edit button gone lol ???

Apologies re the above post I assume its some system failure

The 3 dots on the upper-right of your post...we're all on a learning curve ????

Edited October 24, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps they cause a reduction in NONE serious outcomes?

Would you take a (largely untested) vaccine to reduce sniffles a bit?

Edited October 24, 2020 by BritManToo

[Nout]

12 hours ago, nemo38 said:

I am never going to take an mRNA vaccine. I am not at risk and Covid isn't dangerous enough to justify the lockdowns we have seen.

 

I believe that Sweden exists and managed to get on with life without trashing their economy. 

 

We need to hold the Covid promoters to account, with life jail sentences and stiffer penalties.

90% a drivel of misleading and incoherent non sequitur. Each point is a separate issue and needs to be discussed as such.

Mrna is a life saver and is excellent.

As an export driven economy Sweden did get a great deal of its economy damaged.

[Pattaya Spotter]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Would you take a (largely untested) vaccine to reduce sniffles a bit?

At least for those of us residing in Thailand, there is no need to rush out and get the vaccine, unless one was going on an international trip. I for one will probably hang-back 6 months to a year until more wide-spread safety data is available before getting the jab.

[NanLaew]

Since they haven't developed a vaccine for the SARS coronavirus that kicked off almost 17 years go and weren't successful in getting one for the far more deadly MERS coronavirus from about 8 years ago either, why on earth would anyone be holding out hope for a silver bullet for this one?