How are the bars, restaurants, agogos, massage shops, gentleman clubs and any business doing during covid?

[TaaSaparot]

1 hour ago, Baron Samedi said:

Did Pattaya nightlife made it through COVID or is it FUBAR ?

Been FUBAR since 2005 IMO

[Baron Samedi]

13 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

Been FUBAR since 2005 IMO

Seriously? What makes you say that?

I'd like to know more. Brief me plz.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Baron Samedi

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, Baron Samedi said:

Seriously? What makes you say that?

I'd like to know more. Brief me plz.

Buakhao, Treetown, LK Metro is quite lively nowadays. 

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, Baron Samedi said:

Hi guys ????

 

Can anyone of you give a quick update. You know some sort of summary of the 50+ pages you've been poppin' out since 2020 ????

 

Did Pattaya nightlife made it through COVID or is it FUBAR ?

 

Thanks !

 

PS: Patong is FUBAR. The shadow of its old self....

Is over. The dating apps and greedy, stupid Thai landlords have ruined it.

[Danderman123]

On 5/30/2022 at 1:51 AM, Baron Samedi said:

Hi guys ????

 

Can anyone of you give a quick update. You know some sort of summary of the 50+ pages you've been poppin' out since 2020 ????

 

Did Pattaya nightlife made it through COVID or is it FUBAR ?

 

Thanks !

 

PS: Patong is FUBAR. The shadow of its old self....

Some parts of Pattaya are so crowded that nobody goes there.

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Some parts of Pattaya are so crowded that nobody goes there.

 

And the parts where nobody goes have been called "rammed" by some on this forum.  ???? 

[Leaver]

On 5/30/2022 at 12:11 AM, Yellowtail said:

Is over. The dating apps and greedy, stupid Thai landlords have ruined it.

 

It's the sex apps that will see it "over" for the greedy Thai landlords, via their tenants. 

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

It's the sex apps that will see it "over" for the greedy Thai landlords, via their tenants. 

Except girls often move from app to bars or massage or the other way, so it seems both can coexist 

[Leaver]

14 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Except girls often move from app to bars or massage or the other way, so it seems both can coexist 

 

Yes, they can co-exist. 

 

I have never said the traditional lady drink and bar fine business model will disappear.  I think it will still be the predominant business model for some years to come. 

 

However, online will take a percentage away from the traditional business model here.  Whether that be 10%. 20%, 30% or 40%. 

 

How will bar owners with tight margins continue to pay the rent with even a 20% loss to their digitally disrupted traditional bar business model? 

 

The bar owners rely on lady drinks and bar fines to pay the rent.  The Thai landlords rely on their tenants collecting profits from lady drinks and bar fines so they receive their rent. 

 

There's only a few things that can happen.

 

One is, the bar owners increase their prices of their lady drinks and bar fines so the customers that are willing to pay cover for those who are no longer paying.  This is risky, because the higher the prices go, the more customers get pushed onto online.  That's the death spiral. 

 

Two is, lady drinks and bar fines remain the same, but the price of regular drinks increase.  Also risky, as why would a drinker pay more when they are not interested in buying lady drinks and paying bar fines.

 

Three is, Thai landlords accept what has happened to the traditional bar business model and adjust rents accordingly. (don't hold your breath until bars start closing like they did at the peak of covid and covid rent discounts were offered)

 

Four is, bar owners absorb the loss.  They could absorb some of the loss, to a point, then it becomes unsustainable. 

 

Five is, bar owners go completely freelance, except for  service staff, in which freelance girls lounge around a bar using the wifi and socializing with each other, messaging potential customers, and if they are lucky to get a lady drink or bar fine, so be it, but their main focus will be their phone and working online, despite being sat at a bar.  This will also need an adjustment in rents.

 

Interesting times ahead. 

[PJ71]

On 5/31/2022 at 10:17 PM, Leaver said:

 

And the parts where nobody goes have been called "rammed" by some on this forum.  ???? 

Coz there's nothing there - lol.

[PJ71]

On 5/31/2022 at 10:19 PM, Leaver said:

 

It's the sex apps that will see it "over" for the greedy Thai landlords, via their tenants. 

Well in tree town and round about that area it appears the sex apps ( that you always harp on about ) are having little effect as most of the places there are very busy with normal people going out for the whole socialising, interacting experiennce, you do realise that still does happen, right?

[PJ71]

10 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Yes, they can co-exist. 

 

I have never said the traditional lady drink and bar fine business model will disappear.  I think it will still be the predominant business model for some years to come. 

 

However, online will take a percentage away from the traditional business model here.  Whether that be 10%. 20%, 30% or 40%. 

 

How will bar owners with tight margins continue to pay the rent with even a 20% loss to their digitally disrupted traditional bar business model? 

 

The bar owners rely on lady drinks and bar fines to pay the rent.  The Thai landlords rely on their tenants collecting profits from lady drinks and bar fines so they receive their rent. 

 

There's only a few things that can happen.

 

One is, the bar owners increase their prices of their lady drinks and bar fines so the customers that are willing to pay cover for those who are no longer paying.  This is risky, because the higher the prices go, the more customers get pushed onto online.  That's the death spiral. 

 

Two is, lady drinks and bar fines remain the same, but the price of regular drinks increase.  Also risky, as why would a drinker pay more when they are not interested in buying lady drinks and paying bar fines.

 

Three is, Thai landlords accept what has happened to the traditional bar business model and adjust rents accordingly. (don't hold your breath until bars start closing like they did at the peak of covid and covid rent discounts were offered)

 

Four is, bar owners absorb the loss.  They could absorb some of the loss, to a point, then it becomes unsustainable. 

 

Five is, bar owners go completely freelance, except for  service staff, in which freelance girls lounge around a bar using the wifi and socializing with each other, messaging potential customers, and if they are lucky to get a lady drink or bar fine, so be it, but their main focus will be their phone and working online, despite being sat at a bar.  This will also need an adjustment in rents.

 

Interesting times ahead. 

Yet again, you seem to know everything, you should maybe offer your services to bar owners / lanndlords that have been in the business for decades as you obviously have it all figured out....

[aussiexpat]

15 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Yes, they can co-exist. 

 

I have never said the traditional lady drink and bar fine business model will disappear.  I think it will still be the predominant business model for some years to come. 

 

However, online will take a percentage away from the traditional business model here.  Whether that be 10%. 20%, 30% or 40%. 

 

How will bar owners with tight margins continue to pay the rent with even a 20% loss to their digitally disrupted traditional bar business model? 

 

The bar owners rely on lady drinks and bar fines to pay the rent.  The Thai landlords rely on their tenants collecting profits from lady drinks and bar fines so they receive their rent. 

 

There's only a few things that can happen.

 

One is, the bar owners increase their prices of their lady drinks and bar fines so the customers that are willing to pay cover for those who are no longer paying.  This is risky, because the higher the prices go, the more customers get pushed onto online.  That's the death spiral. 

 

Two is, lady drinks and bar fines remain the same, but the price of regular drinks increase.  Also risky, as why would a drinker pay more when they are not interested in buying lady drinks and paying bar fines.

 

Three is, Thai landlords accept what has happened to the traditional bar business model and adjust rents accordingly. (don't hold your breath until bars start closing like they did at the peak of covid and covid rent discounts were offered)

 

Four is, bar owners absorb the loss.  They could absorb some of the loss, to a point, then it becomes unsustainable. 

 

Five is, bar owners go completely freelance, except for  service staff, in which freelance girls lounge around a bar using the wifi and socializing with each other, messaging potential customers, and if they are lucky to get a lady drink or bar fine, so be it, but their main focus will be their phone and working online, despite being sat at a bar.  This will also need an adjustment in rents.

 

Interesting times ahead. 

Do you ever write anything other than you are a bar and sex app genius...

[theshu25]

12 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

Do you ever write anything other than you are a bar and sex app genius...

There is not a thing that google (leaver) does not know. A real expert in everything.

[vidgra]

On 5/28/2022 at 2:48 AM, TaaSaparot said:

Got to laugh at the Creamfields EDM Festival at Nong Nuch which has been advertised for the last month or so.

 

The day before it starts, they are reminded by the authorities that there is no alcohol, and everyone must be seated, with no dancing.

 

LOL

as if anybody cares what the law or rules want...

 

 

[Leaver]

On 6/2/2022 at 1:10 AM, PJ71 said:

Coz there's nothing there - lol.

 

Nothing except for bars, restaurants and gogo's.  ???? 

[Leaver]

On 6/2/2022 at 1:12 AM, PJ71 said:

Well in tree town and round about that area it appears the sex apps ( that you always harp on about ) are having little effect as most of the places there are very busy with normal people going out for the whole socialising, interacting experiennce, you do realise that still does happen, right?

 

Tree Town construction is temporary.  I wouldn't call it "bricks and mortar."  Would you?  Probably no point me asking, because you never go on record with your opinion, you just troll those that do.

 

What about the bricks and mortar businesses in LK Metro, Soi Baukhao, and other soi leading off it?  You know, the ones paying 40,000, 60,000, 80,000 and over, per month, in rent.  

 

How are they doing with their lady drinks and bar fines?  That amount of rent dictates that X amount of their turn over must be X amount of lady  drinks and bar fines.  

 

Take 10, 20, or even 30% away of lady drinks and bar fines due to online, without a 10, 20, or 30% reduction in rent to compensate, and it's game over

 

Even if online only takes away say 15% of their lady drinks and bar fines, who picks up the 15% loss?

[Leaver]

On 6/2/2022 at 1:15 AM, PJ71 said:

Yet again, you seem to know everything, you should maybe offer your services to bar owners / lanndlords that have been in the business for decades as you obviously have it all figured out....

 

Once again, you miss the point.

 

Taxis were in the business for decades, and look what Uber did to the industry, globally. 

 

You make it sound like it there will NEVER be any digital disruption to the lady drink / bar fine business model here to any percentage, but it was already happening pre covid, and it increased during covid, yet, you think it will all fail and disappear.  Why is that?

[ChaiyaTH]

On 4/29/2022 at 7:47 PM, champers said:

Whether it is 10 or 5.5 million, the point I was making is that the percentage figure of 67% is way off beam. Some areas, Buakhao particularly, are maybe doing well but the same cannot be said for most of the city.

Dream on, won't even see 10 million next year. Inflation, economic issues etc are just warming up. People might be convinced covid is over but the truth is covid was nothing special compared what is coming next.

 

Enjoy life now we still can, in a world we know it is today.

Edited June 3, 2022 by ChaiyaTH

[ChaiyaTH]

45 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Even if online only takes away say 15% of their lady drinks and bar fines, who picks up the 15% loss?

There isn't a 15% loss, they were making ridiculous profits in the first place, now they make OK money.

 

The ones that die off should never been in the business anyway, and as those do, there is a better balance again between the amount of bars, girls and customers thus increasing turnover / profit.

 

Anyway, to blame this on dating apps is nonsense in the first place. What really happened is that many of the ladies are now too old and fewer in the young generation are interested while at the same time, since 2015 onwards, bars kept on opening and being added like mushrooms.

Some here also mention crazy things like that it could work together, which again is a misconception in most cases. They pick online work as they then not have to move to another city, pay rent and drink alcohol, even with earning just 5K online that is a better deal than 20K with costs and ruining health on top, for farm girls.

Edited June 3, 2022 by ChaiyaTH

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

There isn't a 15% loss, they were making ridiculous profits in the first place, now they make OK money.

 

Who is, "they" exactly?

 

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

The ones that die off should never been in the business anyway, and as those do, there is a better balance again between the amount of bars, girls and customers thus increasing turnover / profit.

 

Which I am sure makes for the appearance of a thriving local economy with closed and derelict commercial premises all over the city.

 

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Anyway, to blame this on dating apps is nonsense in the first place.

 

I haven't blamed dating apps being used by freelancers for anything. 

 

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

What really happened is that many of the ladies are now too old and fewer in the young generation are interested while at the same time, since 2015 onwards, bars kept on opening and being added like mushrooms.

 

Who cares about the old ladies?  That''s the nature of the industry.  Even they know that. 

 

The younger generation of Thai hookers are more tech savvy, and so are the sex tourists coming through. 

 

The Thai girls are more inclined to "test the waters" of an app, even from their "cherry" stage, probably only choosing younger guys. 

 

What does the traditional bar business model of lady drinks and bar fines mean to the younger generation anyway.  Not much, it's yesteryear. 

 

Times have changed.  Technology has brought us the "gig economy."  No longer does a Thai hooker need "Beach Road" or a boss, with no other option.

 

There are young people in western countries that have never used a metered taxi.  All they know is Uber, and similar.  This is the world we are now living in. 

 

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Some here also mention crazy things like that it could work together, which again is a misconception in most cases.

 

You have misquoted.  I believe the term was "co-exist" not "work together." 

 

They can co-exist / work together, given favorable conditions to all parties, that's business. 

 

Question is, will Thai landlords accept it? 

 

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

They pick online work as they then not have to move to another city, pay rent and drink alcohol, even with earning just 5K online that is a better deal than 20K with costs and ruining health on top, for farm girls.

 

They work online because they can work when they want to, go with who they want to, don't have a mamasan or boss to answer to, don't get their salary docked for not meeting targets, can arrange customers before they are even in Thailand, can meet customers at a place of the customer's choice, and can lounge around a bar soaking up free wifi and socializing with other bar girls as a freelancer, all the the while still on the phone and on the apps.  They have simply broadened their net, and have the flexibility to meet their "catch."  Whereas, the salaried girl is bound by the bar. 

 

The apps are not only beneficial for the customers, but in most cases, the the girl also.

 

Once again, the myth that online girls just come to the tourist's hotel for an hour and leave, is wrong.  Whilst that service is fine, many, including myself, have met girls from apps for a "bar experience."  Indeed, I have gone long time with some of them after meeting them, and have gone out drinking, dinner, and dancing. 

 

Tell me again, how is the strict traditional bar business model of lady drinks and bar fines going to compete with online meeting in the future, when the customer saves some money, and the girl makes more money, and the only ones to lose, eventually, will be Thai landlords who are unwilling to recognize online has changed a percentage of the game for their tenants? 

 

Once again, this was already happening pre covid, then it picked up during covid, and in my opinion, will continue to gain in popularity post covid, yet many don't seem to think it will have any impact on bars at all. 

 

I simply can't believe it will not, when it already has, and will continue to do so.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Leaver

[Leaver]

On 6/2/2022 at 5:51 AM, aussiexpat said:

Do you ever write anything other than you are a bar and sex app genius...

 

I asked you a simple question, "When's the last time you paid a bar fine?" 

 

You declined to answer, and most probably, because you haven't paid a bar fine for quite some time, yet, you expect tourists will pay bar fines, and continue to do so, well into the future.

 

Tell me, if you are not paying them, why would they, especially when another option for them exists, even when they are not in Thailand? 

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Leaver

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

People might be convinced covid is over but the truth is covid was nothing special compared what is coming next.

 

Enjoy life now we still can, in a world we know it is today.

Where do you get all the positivity from? maybe you're depressed

[PJ71]

7 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Who is, "they" exactly?

 

 

Which I am sure makes for the appearance of a thriving local economy with closed and derelict commercial premises all over the city.

 

 

I haven't blamed dating apps being used by freelancers for anything. 

 

 

Who cares about the old ladies?  That''s the nature of the industry.  Even they know that. 

 

The younger generation of Thai hookers are more tech savvy, and so are the sex tourists coming through. 

 

The Thai girls are more inclined to "test the waters" of an app, even from their "cherry" stage, probably only choosing younger guys. 

 

What does the traditional bar business model of lady drinks and bar fines mean to the younger generation anyway.  Not much, it's yesteryear. 

 

Times have changed.  Technology has brought us the "gig economy."  No longer does a Thai hooker need "Beach Road" or a boss, with no other option.

 

There are young people in western countries that have never used a metered taxi.  All they know is Uber, and similar.  This is the world we are now living in. 

 

 

You have misquoted.  I believe the term was "co-exist" not "work together." 

 

They can co-exist / work together, given favorable conditions to all parties, that's business. 

 

Question is, will Thai landlords accept it? 

 

 

They work online because they can work when they want to, go with who they want to, don't have a mamasan or boss to answer to, don't get their salary docked for not meeting targets, can arrange customers before they are even in Thailand, can meet customers at a place of the customer's choice, and can lounge around a bar soaking up free wifi and socializing with other bar girls as a freelancer, all the the while still on the phone and on the apps.  They have simply broadened their net, and have the flexibility to meet their "catch."  Whereas, the salaried girl is bound by the bar. 

 

The apps are not only beneficial for the customers, but in most cases, the the girl also.

 

Once again, the myth that online girls just come to the tourist's hotel for an hour and leave, is wrong.  Whilst that service is fine, many, including myself, have met girls from apps for a "bar experience."  Indeed, I have gone long time with some of them after meeting them, and have gone out drinking, dinner, and dancing. 

 

Tell me again, how is the strict traditional bar business model of lady drinks and bar fines going to compete with online meeting in the future, when the customer saves some money, and the girl makes more money, and the only ones to lose, eventually, will be Thai landlords who are unwilling to recognize online has changed a percentage of the game for their tenants? 

 

Once again, this was already happening pre covid, then it picked up during covid, and in my opinion, will continue to gain in popularity post covid, yet many don't seem to think it will have any impact on bars at all. 

 

I simply can't believe it will not, when it already has, and will continue to do so.

Why don't you open a thread ' dating apps taking over the world and all Pattaya's bars closing coz i know everything '

 

You could answer your own doom and gloom commennts - lol.

 

At least more insults for now coz you're wrong.

[PJ71]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

It's already taken away a percentage of market share

how much %?

[The Hammer2021]

On 6/1/2022 at 6:32 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Except girls often move from app to bars or massage or the other way, so it seems both can coexist 

Correct. The only people who believe in the app myth know nothing about the bar scene or how it works. Yes some girls use apps sometimes but that is largely  irrelevant  to the real P4P scene  which is about socialising and sex not just short visits. Clubs and bars rule.

[Leaver]

34 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

how much %?

 

According you, zero percent.  It's all myth.  ????

[The Hammer2021]

52 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

how much %?

It probably hasn't taken anything away- it might have even added to the scene. Girls on apps in bars! lol People who attribute apps to undermining the  dating and P4P scene are sometimes linked to bars and businesses that have failed seeking a reason for their failed endeavour.

[Rimmer]

Off topic bickering posts have been removed and replies.

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

It probably hasn't taken anything away- it might have even added to the scene. Girls on apps in bars! lol People who attribute apps to undermining the  dating and P4P scene are sometimes linked to bars and businesses that have failed seeking a reason for their failed endeavour.

 

I've never owned a bar here, nor do I want to.  I am a firm believer in renting, not buying here.  Never sent money for sick buffalo, nor joined The Issan House Builders Club. 

 

I'm a consumer, and I use the apps.  Hasn't the traditional bar business model lost my custom? 

 

Have you even looked at the apps and seen the hundreds of girls working off them?  They have to be getting customers, otherwise they wouldn't bother, and if they are getting customers, how can you say the apps have taken nothing away?

 

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by Leaver