How are the bars, restaurants, agogos, massage shops, gentleman clubs and any business doing during covid?

[kinyara]

16 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Sure, but the customer is not making so much of a donation to a Thai landlord. 

Instead, you're subsidising the Thai boyfriend hanging around the pool hall drinking with his mates, brilliant. ???? 

[champers]

Deutsch Haus, the German restaurant at J of Soi 4 & Pattaya Beach Rd, has been closed for about a year and is now being demolished. It is a very good location, what will replace it?

Just further along Beach Rd, heading towards Soi 5, a new Hot Dog place has recently opened. I haven't tried it yet but temptation will surely get the better of me soon.

[treetops]

16 minutes ago, champers said:

Just further along Beach Rd, heading towards Soi 5, a new Hot Dog place has recently opened.

Buddy's Hotdog.

[Leaver]

10 hours ago, kinyara said:

Instead, you're subsidising the Thai boyfriend hanging around the pool hall drinking with his mates, brilliant. ???? 

 

The girl can do with the money as she pleases, as she earned it.  The Thai landlord on the other hand.................

[kinyara]

13 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

The girl can do with the money as she pleases, as she earned it.  The Thai landlord on the other hand.................

Yes same freedom should apply to the money you have to pay your landlord for your rent as the girls you have to pay for sex. 

[kinyara]

For Sale sign has gone up at the Big Kahuna ( American orientated ? ) restaurant on Thappraya Road before the Hanuman turn.

[Leaver]

7 hours ago, kinyara said:

Yes same freedom should apply to the money you have to pay your landlord for your rent as the girls you have to pay for sex. 

 

Sure, but the difference is, I have entered into a contract with the landlord, and should the landlord increase the rent to an amount that doesn't accurately reflect the property market, I can vacate and rent another property. 

 

With commercial premises, particularly hospitality venues, the contract the bar owner has with their Thai landlord is reflected in the prices of the goods and services offered.  In effect, the rent, as with other expenses, is pushed onto the consumer.  

 

You could have two similar bars, in close proximity, both offering the same goods and services, but one has higher rent, so a Singha beer in that bar may be 80 baht, why the other bar with cheaper rent can offer the same Singha beer for 70 baht.  That Singha beer is the exact same product for both bars, it even came from the same factory, but it's 14% more expensive in one bar.

 

The answer for the bar owner with the expensive rent is to find another place to rent, but it costs a lot to move.  Indeed Soi LK Metro and Soi Baukhao are a product of ridiculous rents in Walking Street.  As prices rise in LK and Baukhao, how long before then next enclave is discovered? 

 

As I have said before, Thai landlords are playing a big part in pushing the market here past what the market is prepared to pay, and I think tourists arranging to meet girls and cutting out the lady drinks and bar fines will grow in popularity.  Salaries for the girls have not increased at the same rate rents have. 

 

Let's be honest, Pattaya Beach is terrible, and the water even worse.  Basic infrastructure here is lacking.  Eg. decent side walks, flooding etc.   However, the adult nightlife is probably the best in the world.  The Thai landlords know this, so rents are high.  They want their cut of the sex trade. 

 

Then, along comes a new way to meet girls working in the sex trade here, which was already happening pre covid, and it's bound to have an impact on the percentages for bar owners.  The only question is just how much percentage?  How will bar owners make their Thai landlords understand that their takings are down because tourists are coming into their bar with a freelancer off the internet?  They may be still selling alcohol, but just not at the lady drink prices.  The bar owner still has his own girl he has to pay a salary, but with no bar fines being paid, why both having salaried hookers?

 

I've asked members here how much bar fine would they be prepared to pay, before deciding it's not worth it.  No one has answered.  One member was honest and admitted he hasn't paid a bar fine for a long time.  Once again, if expats aren't paying,  for how long can you rely on tourists to keep paying, particularly as prices rise, and the word spreads about use of the apps?

 

Is it your position online will have no impact whatsoever? 

[PJ71]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

No one has answered.

No one is interested in your waffle - lol.

[kinyara]

6 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Sure, but the difference is, I have entered into a contract with the landlord, and should the landlord increase the rent to an amount that doesn't accurately reflect the property market, I can vacate and rent another property. 

 

With commercial premises, particularly hospitality venues, the contract the bar owner has with their Thai landlord is reflected in the prices of the goods and services offered.  In effect, the rent, as with other expenses, is pushed onto the consumer.  

 

You could have two similar bars, in close proximity, both offering the same goods and services, but one has higher rent, so a Singha beer in that bar may be 80 baht, why the other bar with cheaper rent can offer the same Singha beer for 70 baht.  That Singha beer is the exact same product for both bars, it even came from the same factory, but it's 14% more expensive in one bar.

 

The answer for the bar owner with the expensive rent is to find another place to rent, but it costs a lot to move.  Indeed Soi LK Metro and Soi Baukhao are a product of ridiculous rents in Walking Street.  As prices rise in LK and Baukhao, how long before then next enclave is discovered? 

 

As I have said before, Thai landlords are playing a big part in pushing the market here past what the market is prepared to pay, and I think tourists arranging to meet girls and cutting out the lady drinks and bar fines will grow in popularity.  Salaries for the girls have not increased at the same rate rents have. 

 

Let's be honest, Pattaya Beach is terrible, and the water even worse.  Basic infrastructure here is lacking.  Eg. decent side walks, flooding etc.   However, the adult nightlife is probably the best in the world.  The Thai landlords know this, so rents are high.  They want their cut of the sex trade. 

 

Then, along comes a new way to meet girls working in the sex trade here, which was already happening pre covid, and it's bound to have an impact on the percentages for bar owners.  The only question is just how much percentage?  How will bar owners make their Thai landlords understand that their takings are down because tourists are coming into their bar with a freelancer off the internet?  They may be still selling alcohol, but just not at the lady drink prices.  The bar owner still has his own girl he has to pay a salary, but with no bar fines being paid, why both having salaried hookers?

 

I've asked members here how much bar fine would they be prepared to pay, before deciding it's not worth it.  No one has answered.  One member was honest and admitted he hasn't paid a bar fine for a long time.  Once again, if expats aren't paying,  for how long can you rely on tourists to keep paying, particularly as prices rise, and the word spreads about use of the apps?

 

Is it your position online will have no impact whatsoever? 

I actually only answered your question whether your landlord has the freedom to choose what to spend what you have to pay him in rent as a tenant. Of course he has.

 

Re all the above, if you haven't already watched it I suggest you watch the interview Buzzin Pattaya did with the owner of Heaven Above during Covid. It addresses quite a few of the questions you raise from an experienced guy in the industry who faced a lot of the issues you mention. The key takeaways for me were the wealthier Asian customers visiting Walking Street pre-covid were prepared to pay the 2,000/5000 bar fine and girl fee in the big venues because they were only there for a short trip. His Western customers weren't which made the location unprofitable for him. The other thing I noted was he said he was keeping his beer prices the same in the new location, ( Soi Boomerang ),  even though cheaper rent and suggested some form of cartel pricing in the area to ensure his fellow bar owners all maximised profits.

 

As a customer I'm against that, we've seen one group trying to dominate one area and force fixed higher profits for themselves through a monopoly. To me it's debatable who are the bigger profiteers, the landlord or the tenant.

 

The best thing about Pattaya as a customer is the competition, and long may that continue. Nothing wrong with a customer base that supports the best deal in town, however the tenant and landlord divvy up the profits between themselves is really not my concern. If I had the wealth I'd rather own than rent in the main nightlife areas in Pattaya. At the end of the day market forces determine how it all pans out, Pattaya is absolutely no different to anywhere else in the world in that respect.

 

[scubascuba3]

Long boring posts have started again ⬆️⬆️⬆️

 

My 2 favourite street food places have increases their prices 5-10 baht, surprised they waited so long

[Leaver]

21 hours ago, kinyara said:

I actually only answered your question whether your landlord has the freedom to choose what to spend what you have to pay him in rent as a tenant. Of course he has.

 

Re all the above, if you haven't already watched it I suggest you watch the interview Buzzin Pattaya did with the owner of Heaven Above during Covid. It addresses quite a few of the questions you raise from an experienced guy in the industry who faced a lot of the issues you mention. The key takeaways for me were the wealthier Asian customers visiting Walking Street pre-covid were prepared to pay the 2,000/5000 bar fine and girl fee in the big venues because they were only there for a short trip. His Western customers weren't which made the location unprofitable for him. The other thing I noted was he said he was keeping his beer prices the same in the new location, ( Soi Boomerang ),  even though cheaper rent and suggested some form of cartel pricing in the area to ensure his fellow bar owners all maximised profits.

 

As a customer I'm against that, we've seen one group trying to dominate one area and force fixed higher profits for themselves through a monopoly. To me it's debatable who are the bigger profiteers, the landlord or the tenant.

 

The best thing about Pattaya as a customer is the competition, and long may that continue. Nothing wrong with a customer base that supports the best deal in town, however the tenant and landlord divvy up the profits between themselves is really not my concern. If I had the wealth I'd rather own than rent in the main nightlife areas in Pattaya. At the end of the day market forces determine how it all pans out, Pattaya is absolutely no different to anywhere else in the world in that respect.

 

 

Good post. 

 

You mentioned cartel type pricing to maximize profits, but could it be cartel type pricing to simply ensure survival for all? 

 

Quite sure we all know the group you are alluding to, in many ways, it represents a Ponzi scheme for new investors.  I'm not so sure it was profitable, pre covid.  

 

Yes, there is good competition in Pattaya, and that's great.  I have suggested it's the Thai landlords driving the prices here, but I accept the examples you have given where bar owners are the ones who are price gouging.  I wish them well, going up against the apps, with their ridiculous lady drink and bar fine prices.  ????

 

I agree market forces will determine the destiny of many businesses here, but will Thai landlords even recognize some digital disruption has occurred to the sex trade here? 

 

Also, in regards to market forces, it's around 45 baht for a beer in the equivalent of an air conditioned  gentleman's club with hookers in Vietnam, even cheaper in regular bars.  Could the same market forces you see on a local level, extend to customers not just going to a cheaper bar, but to a cheaper country? 

[Yellowtail]

18 hours ago, Leaver said:

 Could the same market forces you see on a local level, extend to customers not just going to a cheaper bar, but to a cheaper country? 

One can only hope. 

 

Smart businesses tend to charge what the market will bear. 

[treetops]

Walked several miles yesterday - first time for a while - which included Buakhao and some side streets, part of Walking Street and some side streets and the entire length of Beach Road.

 

There are more new/repurposed/renamed/remodeled businesses of all types open or opening soon than I would ever have guessed.  No shortage of confidence  in business on the ground.

 

My big disappointment was Tin Cups on Buakhao seems to have closed and been stripped.  Anyone know if it's closed for good or just being worked on?

[petermik]

2 hours ago, treetops said:

 

 

My big disappointment was Tin Cups on Buakhao seems to have closed and been stripped.  Anyone know if it's closed for good or just being worked on?

Been like that for the past couple of weeks....renovation taking place in their noodle place but whether for them or new owners no-one seems to know.....

[scubascuba3]

I tried a few Walking St agogos last night and was much improved from a few weeks ago but nowhere near as good as pre covid in terms of hot girls. Baccara, Windmill, Dollhouse, Fahrenheit. Draft beer 80-110 

Encouraging though and heading in the right direction

Edited June 10, 2022 by scubascuba3

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

One can only hope. 

 

Smart businesses tend to charge what the market will bear. 

The pressure is always upwards, and sex sells well. 

[petermik]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

The pressure is always upwards, and sex sells well. 

Speak for yourself....I enjoy visiting the historic sights

[jacko45k]

Just now, petermik said:

Speak for yourself....I enjoy visiting the historic sights

If you have climbed the multitude of steps to a Thai temple in the Thailand sunshine, you have seen it!

[jayboy]

On 6/8/2022 at 11:20 PM, kinyara said:

I suggest you watch the interview Buzzin Pattaya did with the owner of Heaven Above during Covid. It addresses quite a few of the questions you raise from an experienced guy in the industry who faced a lot of the issues you mention

I occasionally watch Buzzin Pattaya.The presenter seems a bright and personable cheeky chappie type but negative impressions remain.The whole scene he depicts is resolutely down market - geared for the tattooed gor blimey ex London cabbie type. A sophisticated visitor would avoid like the plague.Secondly the tours of the area Buzzin Pattaya shows underlines how scuzzy and downmarket the whole place is.

 

Sex always was the engine that drove Pattaya but in the past there were some redeeming features.All gone now.

[scubascuba3]

55 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I occasionally watch Buzzin Pattaya.The presenter seems a bright and personable cheeky chappie type but negative impressions remain.The whole scene he depicts is resolutely down market - geared for the tattooed gor blimey ex London cabbie type. A sophisticated visitor would avoid like the plague.Secondly the tours of the area Buzzin Pattaya shows underlines how scuzzy and downmarket the whole place is.

 

Sex always was the engine that drove Pattaya but in the past there were some redeeming features.All gone now.

If you want somewhere up market maybe a different country is best

[jayboy]

12 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

If you want somewhere up market maybe a different country is best

Quite so, though there are many places in Thailand that offer excellent experiences for the discerning traveller.

 

As for Pattaya, its fate will be determined by economic forces.

[Olmate]

10 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Quite so, though there are many places in Thailand that offer excellent experiences for the discerning traveller.

 

As for Pattaya, its fate will be determined by economic forces.

Leaver under another name????! 

[scubascuba3]

5 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Leaver under another name????! 

You mean not just Mac Mickmanus 555

[Olmate]

38 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You mean not just Mac Mickmanus 555

"Micmacpaddywak" give a dog a bone! 

[Danderman123]

I am traveling with a bar recruiter, and hear the details of the bar business daily.

 

i would say the biggest change since Covid is the large number of Indians coming into the gogos and spending money. And that the girls are happy to go with Indian customers.

[Olmate]

4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I am traveling with a bar recruiter, and hear the details of the bar business daily.

 

i would say the biggest change since Covid is the large number of Indians coming into the gogos and spending money. And that the girls are happy to go with Indian customers.

Travelling bar recruiter? Your really in the know????! 

[scubascuba3]

29 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I am traveling with a bar recruiter, and hear the details of the bar business daily.

 

i would say the biggest change since Covid is the large number of Indians coming into the gogos and spending money. And that the girls are happy to go with Indian customers.

Yes lot's of Indians on walking st, freelancers for Indians not only on beach road but hanging outside the Pratumnak 2nd road hotels, massage shops busy

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, Olmate said:

Travelling bar recruiter? Your really in the know????! 

Yeah, I took her to Dubai, but she spends much time on Facebook, looking for ladies.

 

If I were really smooth, I would get her to pass along the top tier to me..l. But, no can do.

[tomyami]

Different opening times around streets is controlled by police 12 - 2am couple of bar owners have told me 1 who is thai who closes at 12 on the dot wont give police anything.

Think the LD 150/160 in bars is pushing it.

[Danderman123]

The bars and gogos are gradually ramping up, plenty of new openings.