Thailand falls in global English Proficiency Index for fourth consecutive year

[ChipButty]

1 minute ago, Natai Beach said:

I was at homepro last week in the loading bay. I saw a English bloke waving his hands around at a couple of confused Thais. He wanted a piece of rope, but was unable to ask for it making himself frustrated and being mildly rude to the staff. 
In two seconds I politely asked them for some rope. 
 

While we were waiting he started going on about how stupid they are and he had been living here for 8 years. I said to him if they were good at foreign languages they wouldn’t be working at homepro for 10,000 a month. I don’t think it had ever occurred to him. 

After 8 years he should be able to speak Thai,

[wombat]

thats because Thailand is ahead of the rest of the world in acknowledging that Chinese is the coming new world language....get with the program fellow round eye, we are the ones behind

[Emdog]

16 hours ago, SoilSpoil said:

I spend 25% of my working time teaching, the rest is activities, administration and testing. Testing every week, quarter, mid-term, and semester. And very important to make sure that each student has at least a 60% score. No surprise these results.

A few decades ago in USA there was a push for more testing in Congress. One senator remarked "the pig doesn't get any fatter by weighing it"... which stuck in my mind.

Testing can be useful in finding out what students know and don't know. If you don't use results to drive teaching, then it is a waste of time.

I was a teacher in USA, masters in education, blah blah

I would like to volunteer a few hours a week to teach at a local school for free. I imagine more than a few retired expats such as myself would also volunteer. Many barriers to making this a reality, perhaps including having a native English teacher would show how little skill the accredited Thai English teacher has. And so it goes

[Chassa]

I believe the official language in Singapore is English!

 

[simon43]

13 minutes ago, wombat said:

thats because Thailand is ahead of the rest of the world in acknowledging that Chinese is the coming new world language....get with the program fellow round eye, we are the ones behind

Why was he stunned?

 

You would have to be living in the Sahara desert with your head stuck in the sand not to realise that China will be the world leader in the not-too-distant future.  RMB as the leading currency, military as the leading military etc etc. The USA, EU and Russia will be the underdogs asking themselves "why didn't we see this coming?"

 

(I don't agree with China's policy at all, but at least I'm realistic enough to recognise what's going on...)

[Natai Beach]

18 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

After 8 years he should be able to speak Thai,

Should be able to but it really doesn’t worry me if they can or can not. 
 

But they shouldn’t be rude to locals because the locals can not understand them.

 

And for someone who hasn’t picked up even basic thai like how to ask for a piece of rope after 8 years of living here? He was the stupid one.

 

Similar comments on this thread, more likely than not coming from like the homepro bloke. I wonder if he will read this. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Natai Beach

[ChipButty]

7 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

Should be able to but it really doesn’t worry me if they can or can not. 
 

But they shouldn’t be rude to locals because the locals can not understand them.

 

And for someone who hasn’t picked up even basic thai like how to ask for a piece of rope after 8 years of living here? He was the stupid one.

 

Similar comments on this thread, more likely than not coming from like the homepro bloke. I wonder if he will read this. 

In the early days I used to write 5 things down on a piece of paper and carry that around with me, usually things I would be doing everyday them days when I built a house and pool I wanted to know what was what in Thai and it started to come together so I could ask questions and when I go to buy things, I didn't want to be dependent on other people

[poyai111]

Mai bpen rai - ' nuff sed

[nobodysfriend]

Thailand is the center of the world for many ( nationalistic ) Thais .

The prove is that many foreigners want to come here .

Why should they learn English ? The foreigner should learn to speak Thai if they want to come here .

For what the average Thai person needs in life , sanook , pen mau . tam boum boum , kin Khao , etc , they do not need to speak or understand english . If they can read the thai language , it is enough to play ' line ' all day long on their phones ...

English is good for getting a well paid job ? No need for this , too much action to learn ... just 300 baht a day is enough already for many .

Sad.

[Grumpy one]

1 hour ago, Natai Beach said:

a funny thread.

 

A whole bunch of farangs who have lived here for years who cant string a simple sentence together, complaining about Thais who have never been and have no interest in going to England and not being able to speak English.
 

And the endless advice on what the Thais should do without seeing the irony. ????
 

Much more useful for an expat to be able to speak the language where he lives than for Thais to speak a language they will never use. But it easier for them to complain on a forum than actually bothering to learn even basic polite Thai.
 

My grasp of the Thai language only gets me in trouble.

Mind you my wife's English is quite good, until the relo's visit.

Then we revert to " My friend you called, You friend me come today, and my favourite

you want sh=t ( cheese )

[Natai Beach]

7 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

In the early days I used to write 5 things down on a piece of paper and carry that around with me, usually things I would be doing everyday them days when I built a house and pool I wanted to know what was what in Thai and it started to come together so I could ask questions and when I go to buy things, I didn't want to be dependent on other people

 

It is fairly obvious to me the people who complain the most on this forum are the ones who haven’t bothered to learn Thai.

 

It would be a frustrating life, being an illiterate, deaf mute in a strange world. It would also be a lonely existence. It is annoying for the Thais who have to deal with them. 
 

But it doesn’t worry me, up to them, but it is cringeworthy when they are rude.

 

I concentrate my thai learning on very polite Thai. It seems to be appreciated and you get better service and it opens doors.
 

I doubt there would be many Thais in England too lazy to learn English. 
in Australia Thais are required to learn English as part of their visa being granted.

[Asquith Production]

13 hours ago, ravip said:

Live and let live...

'I am the best' attitude is disgusting... to put it mildly.

It is not about being the best attitude. English is the default language. If you want your country to grow you need to be able to communicate outside of it otherwise your depriving, in this case Thais, its ability to grow in knowledge and business opportunities

[gunnerterry]

I would presume the people/students surveyed were educated in the government school system as a majority of students learning in International and Private Thai schools can speak basic English. In government schools, Thai students are not nationally tested on their speaking skills. The English test involves a number of multiple choice questions, so they know they can just guess the answers, so don't pay attention in class. Teaching speaking and listening effectively to a class of 50-60 students in a Government school is virtually impossible. The only way the English proficiency will go up for the average Thai student is a complete restructure of the national tests, smaller classes in Government schools, and better facilities, training and evaluations for teachers.

[newnative]

    4 years of very poor leadership at the top explains the falling scores year after year.  They aren't doing anything right starting with education.  They've had years in power to turn things around and show positive results but, instead, the education system is getting worse, not better.  They should be ashamed.

[Neeranam]

17 hours ago, JusticeGB said:

If Thailand remains closed to farang tourists then bar girls will forget the little English that they know and the ratings will fall further ????

Yet, many of these "bar girls" will be forced to go back to school and learn English properly. No more "same same, ting tong, poom pui, ba ba baw baw". Then they can escape a miserable life of squalor and degradation. 

Sadly, these farang mongers don't care about their physical/mental/spiritual wellbeing, or that of themselves. 

[mike787]

Dah! They speak Thai, no need for English. 

[trainman34014]

I have lived in Thai Village life now for nearly 15 years and it is worth noting that there are still thousands of Thai's who cannot read and/or write; mainly in their 40's and up and a great many who do not even understand or use all of their own language.

 

Now; although we've moved on since these people were at School there are still thousands more Thai Kids struggling with Thai language lessons; so can we really expect them to be showing any sort of proficiency in learning Foreign languages ?    Many Children go for extra lessons at weekends just to keep up with their basic education and i believe the overall state of Thai education to be far worse than is spouted by any Government sources, as teaching 'Methods' are antiquated and 'Teachers' often inept and only in the job for the Pension !

[Neeranam]

I taught here for 25 years at high school, university. The leaders, directors, education ministers etc want to keep the students ignorant. They are succeeding, so you can't criticise them for failing. 

[trainman34014]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

After 8 years he should be able to speak Thai,

After 8 years he can do what he likes but he obviously likes looking like a fool !

[Neeranam]

48 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Thailand is the center of the world for many ( nationalistic ) Thais .

The prove is that many foreigners want to come here .

Why should they learn English ? The foreigner should learn to speak Thai if they want to come here .

For what the average Thai person needs in life , sanook , pen mau . tam boum boum , kin Khao , etc , they do not need to speak or understand english . If they can read the thai language , it is enough to play ' line ' all day long on their phones ...

English is good for getting a well paid job ? No need for this , too much action to learn ... just 300 baht a day is enough already for many .

Sad.

I wouldn't call it sad. Do you know the story of the Mexican fisherman? Whi is the sad one, the US banker or the fisherman? 

 

An American investment banker was taking a much-needed vacation in a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. The boat had several large, fresh fish in it.

The investment banker was impressed by the quality of the fish and asked the Mexican how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied, “Only a little while.” The banker then asked why he didn’t stay out longer and catch more fish?

The Mexican fisherman replied he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs.

The American then asked, “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The Mexican fisherman replied, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos: I have a full and busy life, señor.”

The investment banker scoffed, “I am an Ivy League MBA, and I could help you. You could spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat, and with the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats until eventually, you would have a whole fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to the middleman you could sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You could control the product, processing and distribution.”

Then he added, “Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City where you would run your growing enterprise.”

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But señor, how long will this all take?”

To which the American replied, “15–20 years.”

“But what then?” asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You could make millions.”

“Millions, señor? Then what?”

To which the investment banker replied, “Then you would retire. You could move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”

Edited November 26, 2020 by Neeranam

[soalbundy]

17 hours ago, johng said:

Don't forget that the  "Democratic soldier"  ????

said Thai would  become the de-facto world language  so of course no need to learn English ???? 

He only joking you

[dlclark97]

I find these results as being very unfortunate for the Thai population.  Like it or not, English is the international language for commerce and industry.  Mandatory for many airport employees and staff on aircraft.  It is also critical in commerce with other countries.  Thailand is no longer a country that does not depend to some extent on goods and services from other countries.  From personal with my daughters education the English teachers she has had were not qualified to teach English.  Several of her homework projects that I did not see before they were turned in were rated as correct when that was far from the truth.  She passed the subject but, in fact should have received a failing grade.  Some years ago I did some work at a company in South Korea.  All employees were required to spend the first hour of every day working on an English lesson presented by a company wide video lesson.  That teaching seemed to have been quite effective as many that I dealt with were very proficient.  Thailand needs qualified teachers if proper English is to be learned in Thai and international schools.  It's a must to succeed in today's world.

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

Rather than having a go at Thai's not speaking English in their own country we should be talking about farangs living in Thailand not speaking Thai, I know a guy who has been here 17 years the amount of Thai he knows you could put it on the back of a postage stamp,

Many I know have Thai families and still dont speak Thai, How lazy is that?

I've been here longer than 17 years and still speak very little Thai. Every job I've had,  had contracts and specifications in english. Thai language contracts have too many 'interpretation options'  ASME ANSI DIN BS etc just cannot be translated to Thai.

All my in-laws speak english.

I have enough Thai to get what I want in a shop or restaurant and that suits me fine.

[hotchilli]

18 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand falls in global English Proficiency Index for fourth consecutive year

I guess the education ministries policy of hiring teachers from countries that come at the cheapest price isn't working?

[mikebell]

18 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Not surprised, they are not really interested outside the tourist areas.

 

They should hire a lot of English teachers, a lot, and somebody that really can speak English and not the English teacher I spoke to in SiSaket many years ago, I didn't understand one word she was saying (Thai) and I felt sorry for her and her students. 

 

Singapore is doing very well in this regard.

 

 

My son taught in Hat Yai. Lots of teachers engaged him in 'English' conversations -all gibberish.  I went into a Surin school at the request of the headmaster.  He had no English and my Thai wasn't up to much.  He sent for the Head of English to assist  the conversation. He began brightly with 'Me number one angrit teach in sakoon,' - this soon fell away.

[dlclark97]

8 minutes ago, dlclark97 said:

I find these results as being very unfortunate for the Thai population.  Like it or not, English is the international language for commerce and industry.  Mandatory for many airport employees and staff on aircraft.  It is also critical in commerce with other countries.  Thailand is no longer a country that does not depend to some extent on goods and services from other countries.  From personal with my daughters education the English teachers she has had were not qualified to teach English.  Several of her homework projects that I did not see before they were turned in were rated as correct when that was far from the truth.  She passed the subject but, in fact should have received a failing grade.  Some years ago I did some work at a company in South Korea.  All employees were required to spend the first hour of every day working on an English lesson presented by a company wide video lesson.  That teaching seemed to have been quite effective as many that I dealt with were very proficient.  Thailand needs qualified teachers if proper English is to be learned in Thai and international schools.  It's a must to succeed in today's world.  Unfortunately for myself, I would love to have more proficiency with the Thai language but at age 80, and for the last several years my hearing has been unable to detect the change in tones as I hear it spoken from others.  A constant irritant between my wife and I.

 

[SupermarineS6B]

17 hours ago, AlfHuy said:

Soon, no more English spoken but at school, they will be obliged to learn Mandarine to better understand their brothers and sisters.

100%........ That's on the books already.....  

[recom273]

18 hours ago, J Town said:

Hasn't this poor dead horse been beaten enough?

 

You get what you pay for. Pay a competitive salary and you'll get quality teachers. I know a school where they are currently short 14 teachers. They are part of the the largest private school system in Southeast Asia, and the pay they offer is literally laughed at and it shows. Numbers don't lie. As a result you get lousy English proficiency. Again, numbers don't lie.

You are presuming that English is taught by native speakers or NNES.
 

The majority of students in this country attend government schools where most lessons are taught by Thai teachers who after a their first couple of years are paid extremely well.

 

It’s the mentality of the whole system - some good local teachers are bogged down with pointless meetings in the region and extra curricular activities, a lot just carry out their role as the “English teacher” churning out the same mindless lessons year after year until they get meet the retirement age. 

There are so many issues as you say, regarding payment of native teachers but it won’t end if they pay better - real teachers will not rush to Thailand and put up with the quality of classrooms, the number of kids and the lack of consideration given.
 

The whole system needs a rethink, from the rote learning principle, the endless “fun” activities, the mentality of the kids, and the institution that controls it. Like you say, it’s been flogged to death and nothing will change.

[GinBoy2]

I dunno how many times we can flog this dead horse, poor creature has been dead for years!

 

Our son went to what was supposedly a good private school in KK, but even paying for education doesn't get them much better an education, you simply pay to get them a better quality of friends.

 

He was born in Singapore and we lived there until he went to middle school. My wife grew up in Chicago, so he was as fluent in verbal and written English as you can be when we moved to Thailand.

 

I never knew whether to laugh or cry when I'd see the 'corrections' to his English homework.

 

I tried to talk to his English teacher once. I'm fluent in Thai so we started off in Thai, then I switched to English. I swear to God the woman couldn't string a coherent sentence  together.

 

I'm sure somewhere in Bangkok there are schools with decent English language teachers, but the majority of the country those decent teachers are few and far between.

[Keesters]

Just how many Thais need to learn English in order to live and work their daily lives? 1 million, 10 million, all of them. I would think the number quite small. I can on a regular basis meet Thais who have never seen a farang let alone needed to communicate with them. But my 4yo grandson is doing not so bad coming home from school with a new word or phrase learnt on the playground. W T F (in full) was a recent one even though he's no idea what it means. Another was "Double tête" that he got from a half french lad. And his knowledge of flora & fauna in English just amazes people. Thank you youtube. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Keesters