SURVEY: Should Scotland seek independence from the UK?

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

But the point is that it is for the people of Scotland to decide.

Which is what I said in reply to your first post. That is, Scotland should have the right to decide whether or not they want independence.

 

If Indyref2 happens and the Scots decide to leave, then it no longer rests with Scotland alone as to what happens to UK as a whole.

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Maybe your use of words such as "Scotland", "Scottish" and "We"????????

 

Well here's a clue.

Give us a referendum and we will all know.

[bkkcanuck8]

Just now, youreavinalaff said:

Which is what I said in reply to your first post. That is, Scotland should have the right to decide whether or not they want independence.

 

If Indyref2 happens and the Scots decide to leave, then it no longer rests with Scotland alone as to what happens to UK as a whole.

After a win in Indyref2, the two sides will have to sit down and work out a 'withdrawal agreement' ... so you are right after - then it no longer rests completely with Scotland.

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

Which is what I said in reply to your first post. That is, Scotland should have the right to decide whether or not they want independence.

 

If Indyref2 happens and the Scots decide to leave, then it no longer rests with Scotland alone as to what happens to UK as a whole.

 

Just now, Rookiescot said:

 

Well here's a clue.

Give us a referendum and we will all know.

I would, if it was up to me. As I pointed out above.

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

If you would care to read my comments on TVF, you will see that I have never had any issues with a second referendum. In fact, I have even said they they should have one.

Good for you. Now I don't claim all English don't want that, but all the opinions against a referendum are from English.

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

but all the opinions against a referendum are from English

I don't think so. Not "all"

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Good for you. Now I don't claim all English don't want that, but all the opinions against a referendum are from English.

English Brexiteers no less.

Who were warned voting for Brexit risked the union.

They decided to vote for Brexit anyway. Now they cannot face the consequences of their own actions. 

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I don't think so. Not "all"

Ok, maybe, but which posts here from non-english are saying no to a referendum?

[7by7]

7 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Which is what I said in reply to your first post. That is, Scotland should have the right to decide whether or not they want independence.

 Then you went on to say in that post that it should all be under the control of Westminster. Which I disagreed with and explained why.

 

9 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

If Indyref2 happens and the Scots decide to leave, then it no longer rests with Scotland alone as to what happens to UK as a whole.

What happens to the UK as a whole does not currently rest with Scotland alone!

 

If Scotland votes to leave the UK then they will have no say at all on what happens to the UK

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Ok, maybe, but which posts here from non-english are saying no to a referendum?

I didn;t think for one minute you were referring only to a small group of people on a forum thousands of mile from Scotland. I thought you were looking at the bigger picture.

[Orton Rd]

28 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Whilst part of the eu, explained hundreds of times. 

 

Some brexiteers which dont want scotland to have a decision sure do sound like trump supporters.

 

 

Trump has nothing to do with it, they had a vote and it was no but some want to keep having them until they get the right result.

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

If Scotland votes to leave the UK then they will have no say at all on what happens to the UK

Again, I disagree. Unless Scotland wish to walk away with nothing, they will need to negotiate with the rest of the UK.

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I didn;t think for one minute you were referring only to a small group of people on a forum thousands of mile from Scotland. I thought you were looking at the bigger picture.

Damned, and there was me thinking we were discussing this on a forum thousands of miles from Scotland.

On this forum I am discussing the opinions of the posters of this forum, unless clearly stated otherwise. So on this forum the only objections to a scottish independence referendum come from English.

[bkkcanuck8]

7 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Again, I disagree. Unless Scotland wish to walk away with nothing, they will need to negotiate with the rest of the UK.

So walking away with nothing is an option - Scotland might be thankful that the English are fine with keeping the entirety of the debt to themselves ????

[Jimbo53]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 In which case those opposed to Scottish independence have nothing to fear from another referendum!

I certainly dont fear it,i dont get a vote because i dont live there,it will make no difference to me,i will still be keeping my British Passport.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/07/most-scots-would-back-remaining-in-uk-new-poll-suggests

[youreavinalaff]

11 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

So walking away with nothing is an option - Scotland might be thankful that the English are fine with keeping the entirety of the debt to themselves ????

I would very much doubt that. They would have great difficulty running their country without a currency.

[Jimbo53]

36 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Well here's a clue.

Give us a referendum and we will all  know.

Already had one! Another will have the same outcome,and a complete waste of time and money again !

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/07/most-scots-would-back-remaining-in-uk-new-poll-suggests

[Jimbo53]

37 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Good for you. Now I don't claim all English don't want that, but all the opinions against a referendum are from English.

No their not,i am Scottish,if i was allowed to vote against wasting money on another referendum i would.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

They already had a vote, they voted NO

That was when they were in the EU...now the Scots have been forced to leave against the majorities will then there is no reason another vote on independence from westminster and the union can’t take place. 

[bkkcanuck8]

15 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I would very much doubt that. They would have great difficulty running their country without a currency.

Scotland does not need to use the GBP, in fact it would be better for them to setup a currency board where the currency is 100% backed by foreign reserves. 

[youreavinalaff]

4 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Scotland does not need to use the GBP, in fact it would be better for them to setup a currency board where the currency is 100% backed by foreign reserves. 

Would that be the day before independence or the day after? I'm afraid there would be a catch 22 situation there.

 

Besides, in this scenario they have walked away with nothing. How can one set up a currency with nothing?

Edited March 7, 2021 by youreavinalaff

[Jimbo53]

10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

That was when they were in the EU...now the Scots have been forced to leave against the majorities will then there is no reason another vote on independence from westminster and the union can’t take place. 

EU vote was another issue,Scots previously voted to stay in the UK,the UK majority voted to leave the EU,thats democracy at work,not pandering to a specific group that take the huff because it does'nt go their way.

[stevenl]

24 minutes ago, Jimbo53 said:

No their not,i am Scottish,if i was allowed to vote against wasting money on another referendum i would.

Thanks, looks like so far you're the only one.

[bkkcanuck8]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Would that be the day before independence or the day after? I'm afraid there would be a catch 22 situation there.

 

Besides, in this scenario they have walked away with nothing. How can one set up a currency with nothing?

We are of course talking about a scenario that would be in no ones interest... but since Britain has a significant debt -- walking away with nothing would be 0% of and negative amount.    A referendum win would only be the first step, there would be a period where both parties would have to sit down and negotiate an exit in an orderly manner.  If you are arguing that the UK without Scotland's government would have an interest in a disorderly separation - then the UK as a whole would be <censored> as the remaining debt to GDP ratio would suddenly skyrocket (Same debt, smaller economy and a shrinking economy due to a disorderly exit).   A shock of a sudden shutdown of cross border supply of energy would be sufficient to shock any government into a more reasonable position.

[youreavinalaff]

10 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

We are of course talking about a scenario that would be in no ones interest... but since Britain has a significant debt -- walking away with nothing would be 0% of and negative amount.    A referendum win would only be the first step, there would be a period where both parties would have to sit down and negotiate an exit in an orderly manner.  If you are arguing that the UK without Scotland's government would have an interest in a disorderly separation - then the UK as a whole would be <censored> as the remaining debt to GDP ratio would suddenly skyrocket (Same debt, smaller economy and a shrinking economy due to a disorderly exit).   A shock of a sudden shutdown of cross border supply of energy would be sufficient to shock any government into a more reasonable position.

Not suggesting any of the above at all.

 

My original comment about Scotland leaving with nothing was in reply to some suggesting it was all up to Scotland and rest of UK should have no say. Your comment above had pretty much agreed with that.

[bkkcanuck8]

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

Not suggesting any of the above at all.

 

My original comment about Scotland leaving with nothing was in reply to some suggesting it was all up to Scotland and rest of UK should have no say. Your comment above had pretty much agreed with that.

The rest of UK would have no say in the same way that the EU had no say on UK leaving... the decision is made... what the UK does have a say on is the negotiations on a fair an equitable withdrawal agreement.   i.e. negotiations.

[youreavinalaff]

6 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

The rest of UK would have no say in the same way that the EU had no say on UK leaving... the decision is made... what the UK does have a say on is the negotiations on a fair an equitable withdrawal agreement.   i.e. negotiations.

That is what I said. All this running round in circles is making me dizzy.

 

There seems to be some people on here that don't understand the difference between an independence referendum and independence itself.

[Bluespunk]

30 minutes ago, Jimbo53 said:

EU vote was another issue,Scots previously voted to stay in the UK,the UK majority voted to leave the EU,thats democracy at work,not pandering to a specific group that take the huff because it does'nt go their way.

Nope. 
 

The last vote was when the uk was in the EU. 
 

Against the will of the majority of Scots that is no longer the case. 
 

New circumstances, new vote. 
 

Why is that such a problem I wonder. 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Nope.

 

Dave Evans, 1973 to1974; Australian.

Bon Scott, 1974 to his death in 1980; Australian.

Brian Johnson, 1980 to 2016 and 2018 to date; English.

Axl Rose, 2016 (stand in for on tour for an ill Johnson); 2016.

Scott was born in Forfar in Angus, Scotland, and spent his early years in Kirriemuir. Wikipedia

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Scott was born in Forfar in Angus, Scotland, and spent his early years in Kirriemuir. Wikipedia

And he was Australian, not Scottish as you claimed.