I still don't think the sky is falling ......but

[starky]

A couple weeks ago I had some fairly heated discussion with a couple of regular posters on here about what things would look like after Songkran.

   Im hoping the government can still get a grip on it, but in essence I was wrong. I still believe for most that Covid is relatively harmless, vaccines are no silver bullet and we need to consider a realistic plan for opening the world back up as soon as possible cos humanity didn't flourish from hiding in caves.

   But still, as a man I'm happy to admit I was wrong and to those posters and ThailandRyan in particular I extend my apologies. 

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, starky said:

I still believe for most that Covid is relatively harmless,

I think this is true....which is fine when you are one of those for whom the effects are zero or minimal.......but for others.......?

 

I wonder how people would have reacted if this disease had the inverse effect of killing a high proportion of children rather than old folk?

[starky]

22 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

I think this is true....which is fine when you are one of those for whom the effects are zero or minimal.......but for others.......?

 

I wonder how people would have reacted if this disease had the inverse effect of killing a high proportion of children rather than old folk?

Well fortunately it's not and I am not going to play what if? Also it's not killing a "high" proportion of people, and children wouldn't have the co-morbidities that people dying from covid do. So wheres the comparison. Too many variables. Of course it would be tragic. It's  life older folk naturally die at a greater rate than children if the inverse was true none of us would be here.

Most studies indicate that those who are unfortunate enough to die do have at least 2 if not more co- morbidities. So for the most part people dying from covid were already particularly vulnerable. And as this is something we have never experienced before you would have to unfortunately assume that the first couple of years is going to be the most devastating as those that are most vulnerable are almostly certainly going to be severely compromised. Which is why those most vulnerable must be protected, but what are we teaching our children? Not to socialise, to stay inside, to not go to school, to avoid contact with people? It's insanity.

  It's not nice, it's not pleasant it's certainly unpalatable but the future of the species has always been the priority. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by starky

[Kwasaki]

Not too sure what your going on about I don't think the sky is falling in either, and kids are tough and with the tect these days they can still communicate.

I thought the problem with many young people is they can have the virus and have no symptoms, it happened in my UK family but was found quickly and fortunately was not passed on to someone who could be susceptible to varing degrees.

From what I  can make out as I understand it, this virus is a very aggressive flu type that mutates and it's the way it's mutated is the main problem.

My grandchildren are fine in UK some are like me and hate school anyways. ???? ????

 

[Puccini]

If with the sky falling in we mean the health service getting overloaded to the extent that ambulances are queuing for long periods and the patients dying because of the unavailability of prompt emergency treatment, there were some places in some European countries where this was happening.

 

Once ICU beds became free again, lockdowns were lifted and other restrictions were eased and I see from news reports that the percentage of free hospital beds for intensive care continues to be an important factor in the decision-making for restrictions in many parts of the world.

[Jeffr2]

Quote

I still believe for most that Covid is relatively harmless, vaccines are no silver bullet and we need to consider a realistic plan for opening the world back up as soon as possible cos humanity didn't flourish from hiding in caves.

 

You sound like a covid denier.  We still don't know much about this virus.  Especially the long term effects, which seem to impact about 30% of those who get sick.

 

Vaccines are no silver bullet, but right now, it's our best way out of this mess.  So yes, for now, they are a silver bullet.  For now.

 

Who do you know that's hiding in a cave?  Not doing this is why we're in a 3rd wave.  Not sure what your on about there.

 

These new variants seem to be hurting young people now. 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/brazil-alarming-high-number-babies-children-are-dying-covid-19-n1264231

 

In Brazil, an alarmingly high number of babies and children are dying of Covid-19

 

While government data from Brazil suggest that over 800 children under age 9 have died of Covid-19, an expert estimates that the death toll is nearly three times higher.

[Jeffr2]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/05/us/michigan-covid-surge-patients-variants/index.html

 

In Michigan's latest coronavirus surge, there's a new kind of patient

 

Michigan is in another coronavirus surge and hospitals are again on the front line, but this time they have a new type of patient: younger and healthier.

[BritManToo]

20 hours ago, starky said:

It's  life older folk naturally die at a greater rate than children if the inverse was true none of us would be here.

 

It's not nice, it's not pleasant it's certainly unpalatable but the future of the species has always been the priority. 

You're quite wrong, it was expected you would need to produce 8-10 children in order for 2 males to survive into adulthood. This was true for the entirety of history except for the past 100 years in the west.

 

Wrong again, the biggest threat to our species is abortion and contraception. We already have shrinking populations.

Edited April 17, 2021 by BritManToo

[starky]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You're quite wrong, it was expected you would need to produce 8-10 children in order for 2 males to survive into adulthood. This was true for the entirety of history except for the past 100 years in the west.

 

Wrong again, the biggest threat to our species is abortion and contraception. We already have shrinking populations.

So for the past 100 years there have been more children dying than old people? Can you show me the stats on that? A lot of countries still have high mortality rate but far more people die of old age than die in infancy or through to adulthood.

  Shrinking populations isn't all about abortion or contraception either as many people are choosing not to have any children at all or having far smaller families than what was traditionally true. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by starky

[BritManToo]

Just now, starky said:

So for the past 100 years there have been more children dying than old people? Can you show me the stats on that?

  Shrinking populations isn't all about abortion or contraception either as many people are choosing not to have any children at all or having far smaller families than what was traditionally true. 

https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality-in-the-past#:~:text=Across the entire historical sample,Around half died as children.

 

"Across the entire historical sample the authors found that on average, 26.9% of newborns died in their first year of life and 46.2% died before they reached adulthood. Two estimates that are easy to remember: Around a quarter died in the first year of life. Around half died as children."

[starky]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality-in-the-past#:~:text=Across the entire historical sample,Around half died as children.

 

"Across the entire historical sample the authors found that on average, 26.9% of newborns died in their first year of life and 46.2% died before they reached adulthood. Two estimates that are easy to remember: Around a quarter died in the first year of life. Around half died as children."

To which I say

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-death/deaths-in-australia/contents/age-at-death

 

2018, there were 158,493 deaths registered in Australia. The majority of deaths in Australia, like other developed countries, occur among older people. Sixty-six per cent of deaths registered in Australia in 2018 were among people aged 75 or over (59% for males and 73% for females). The median age at death was 78 years for males and 84 years for females (Table S2.1).

Edited April 17, 2021 by starky

[malathione]

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You're quite wrong, it was expected you would need to produce 8-10 children in order for 2 males to survive into adulthood. This was true for the entirety of history except for the past 100 years in the west.

 

Wrong again, the biggest threat to our species is abortion and contraception. We already have shrinking populations.

Is your species European, or, perhaps, some form of non-human? Because the human population is not shrinking. Abortion and contraception being a threat, an absolutely idiotic assertion even for a TV poster.

[nobodysfriend]

21 hours ago, starky said:

but the future of the species has always been the priority. 

I do not see much of a future for most of this species ...

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

You're quite wrong, it was expected you would need to produce 8-10 children in order for 2 males to survive into adulthood. This was true for the entirety of history except for the past 100 years in the west.

 

Wrong again, the biggest threat to our species is abortion and contraception. We already have shrinking populations.

To the tune of New York New York

 

'start spreadin' the seed...' 

[1FinickyOne]

31 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

I do not see much of a future for most of this species ...

so, you are saying most of us will die?

 

 

[Excel]

Just now, 1FinickyOne said:

so, you are saying most of us will die?

 

 

Eventually we all do, that's life - or death

[starky]

7 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

so, you are saying most of us will die?

 

 

Actually on a long enough timeline....lol we all gon die

[Brierley]

1 minute ago, starky said:

Actually on a long enough timeline....lol we all gon die

Not me, I have an amulet.

[starky]

19 minutes ago, Excel said:

Eventually we all do, that's life - or death

Cue the music... " it's the circle of life" lol more like the semi circle of life if you ask me. 

[Antonymous]

22 hours ago, Surelynot said:

I think this is true....which is fine when you are one of those for whom the effects are zero or minimal.......but for others.......?

 

I wonder how people would have reacted if this disease had the inverse effect of killing a high proportion of children rather than old folk?

 

You don’t have to look far for the answer to that. Just look what were we doing differently before Covid. In 2018 in Thailand  3,712 people per month, including children, died from flu and pneumonia, but that wasn’t even news.

 

I had pneumonia that developed from flu as a child and was in hospital for a month. Childhood friends died from it then, just as children do today.

 

According to the CDC:

 

“Similarities:

Both COVID-19 and flu illness can result in severe illness and complications. Those at highest risk include:

 

Older adults

People with certain underlying medical conditions

Pregnant people

 

Differences:

The risk of complications for healthy children is higher for flu compared to COVID-19. However, infants and children with underlying medical conditions are at increased risk for both flu and COVID-19.”

 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm

[Jeffr2]

7 minutes ago, Antonymous said:

 

You don’t have to look far for the answer to that. Just look what were we doing differently before Covid. In 2018 in Thailand  3,712 people per month, including children, died from flu and pneumonia, but that wasn’t even news.

 

I had pneumonia that developed from flu as a child and was in hospital for a month. Childhood friends died from it then, just as children do today.

 

According to the CDC:

 

“Similarities:

Both COVID-19 and flu illness can result in severe illness and complications. Those at highest risk include:

 

Older adults

People with certain underlying medical conditions

Pregnant people

 

Differences:

The risk of complications for healthy children is higher for flu compared to COVID-19. However, infants and children with underlying medical conditions are at increased risk for both flu and COVID-19.”

 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm

Still stuck with trying to compare the flu with Covid?  Doesn't work.  There are some similarities, but also massive differences.  This type of post doesn't help the situation.

[hellohello123]

People are allowed to have their opinion and I respect them, even if I disagree with them.

 

However, all these covid deniers, anti Vaxers  or whatever they are collectively called, I just hate their arrogance, guillability and essentially stupidity.

 

Sure, even the experts can get it wrong, and who knows maybe there is a chance covid was released by the governement or Bill gates

 

But to selectively pick out pieces of random tripe found on Facebook or the words of some anti-everything nutcase, and then suddenly start to become medical experts, virus experts,, legal experts 

It just makes me <deleted> angry, as it effects me and my family's health and well-being  with increased lockdowns, health risks, and restrictions 

Edited April 17, 2021 by hellohello123

[Jeffr2]

It's not looking good.

[Guderian]

22 hours ago, Surelynot said:

I think this is true....which is fine when you are one of those for whom the effects are zero or minimal.......but for others.......?

 

I wonder how people would have reacted if this disease had the inverse effect of killing a high proportion of children rather than old folk?

 

The Brazilian variant doesn't seem to be too picky about age, and it's probably heading our way soon enough.

[Excel]

11 minutes ago, hellohello123 said:

People are allowed to have their opinion and I respect them, even if I disagree with them.

 

However, all these covid deniers, anti Vaxers  or whatever they are collectively called, I just hate their arrogance, guillability and essentially stupidity.

 

Sure, even the experts can get it wrong, and who knows maybe there is a chance covid was released by the governement or Bill gates

 

But to selectively pick out pieces of random tripe found on Facebook or the words of some anti-everything nutcase, and then suddenly start to become medical experts, virus experts,, legal experts 

It just makes me <deleted> angry, as it effects me and my family's health and well-being  with increased lockdowns, health risks, and restrictions 

Facebook is essentially tripe, not random. People write about the brain washing techniques of the Russian Stalin era or for that matter the Chinese but they can not hold a candle to Mark Zuckerberg. He has brainwashed almost 2.8  billion people to press something called a like button  - how is that for conditioning of the human mind ? China eat your heart out.

[Inala]

1 hour ago, malathione said:

Is your species European, or, perhaps, some form of non-human? Because the human population is not shrinking. Abortion and contraception being a threat, an absolutely idiotic assertion even for a TV poster.

 

BritMan Too is right. Peak population will occur around 2040-50. After that, the world population will start a slow decline. It's well documented that as countries industrialize, urbanize and become wealthier, fertility rates drop as women assert more control over their reproductive rights. Fertility rates all around the world (with some exceptions of course in poorer countries) are in rapid decline. Even China's population is in decline. I lived in the Philippines for a long time and my skilled female staff were all choosing to have no more than 1 or 2 babies at the most, and that's the Philippines where families traditionally comprised more than 6 children. Contraception use is on the rise there and in many other developing nations as women enter the skilled workforce and assert their reproductive rights. How many Thai girls who are off the farm do you know are having more than 1 or 2 kids? It's not many....   

[Antonymous]

37 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Still stuck with trying to compare the flu with Covid?  Doesn't work.  There are some similarities, but also massive differences.  This type of post doesn't help the situation.

 

Doesn't help what situation? I was replying to this question:

 

23 hours ago, Surelynot said:

I wonder how people would have reacted if this disease had the inverse effect of killing a high proportion of children rather than old folk?

 

"I wonder how people would have reacted if this disease had the inverse effect of killing a high proportion of children rather than old folk?"

 

And I quoted directly from the CDC. It appears that you want to wear blinkers and only read what supports your narrow views about Covid. I prefer to take a wider look at what is happening and in this case the CDC has an excellent site that explains the close similarities between flu/pneumonia and Covid, with one of the few differences being that flu is much more dangerous than Covid to children.

 

If you are still in denial after reading the CDC announcement in the link that I provided, then take the matter up with the CDC.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Antonymous

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, Antonymous said:

 

Doesn't help what situation? I was replying to this question:

 

 

"I wonder how people would have reacted if this disease had the inverse effect of killing a high proportion of children rather than old folk?"

 

And I quoted directly from the CDC. It appears that you want to wear blinkers and only read what supports your narrow views about Covid. I prefer to take a wider look at what is happening and in this case the CDC has an excellent site that explains the close similarities between flu/pneumonia and Covid, with one of the few differences being that flu is much more dangerous than Covid to children.

 

If you are still in denial after reading the CDC announcement in the link that I provided, then take the matter up with the CDC.

It now seems the variants are going after younger people.  Even children.  I'm not in denial.  Just saying that to compare the flu (which we understand quite well) with CV19 (which we don't really understand, and is mutating), might not be a good thing to do. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Jeffr2

[thasoss]

trouble with covid, are the symptoms(for some).....heaps worse than the flu and it would appear ,after recovering, the effects linger for a long time.At my age i would hate to catch this virus.

[Surelynot]

41 minutes ago, Guderian said:

 

The Brazilian variant doesn't seem to be too picky about age, and it's probably heading our way soon enough.

Yes...just been reading that.....very worrying......and now the new Indian variant......but India not on the UK red list....why? Because Johnson has a trade visas coming up.......!!!!