Which has the strongest chassis, a current Ranger or a current Hilux?

[alacrity]

I like to do projects in my spare time, but (by my standard, I'm hopeless at body-work and painting. Sadly, my guy that was excellent at such things, passed last year. He was irreplaceable for many reasons, more than his talents.

 

Took a long pause from the last (unfinished) rebuild/modification of a Mk3 Cortina and bought some other stuff, which isn't the same as doing something for yourself. So, I have a Toyota V8 and manual 5 speed gearbox to work from and I'm thinking of building an off-roader. Something I'd never have considered before (but bodywork isn't so important). So, I'm thinking of buying the latest standard of a "Christmas Tree".

 

Thought about using my 3.2 Wildtrack as a donor, but I can't buy the same standard new. Even an upgrade to a Raptor (to replace) gives the same (new) poxy motor and gearbox, along with an additional tax disadvantage.

 

Can buy a 'new' suitable ; Ford or Toyota for less than 800K as donors and I'm thinking that the Toyota chassis will need the least changes.

 

If I'm really only buying a chassis. What's the strongest?

[pgrahmm]

I would say go Toyota...The Ford had is fading here....

People that really used their trucks as Thai work vehicles dabbled with Ford's - but after a short time defaulted back to Toyota....They vote with their money....

 

Count the number of "working" Toyota trucks versus working Ford trucks by % & that should give you a good indication....

[alacrity]

8 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

I would say go Toyota...The Ford had is fading here....

People that really used their trucks as Thai work vehicles dabbled with Ford's - but after a short time defaulted back to Toyota....They vote with their money....

 

Count the number of "working" Toyota trucks versus working Ford trucks by % & that should give you a good indication....

I tend to agree that Ford have lost their recent advantageous. However, I'll stand by my  opinion that the 3.2 Widtrack has been the best available truck in Thailand for a long time. Including the Raptor.

 

My quandary is; what body and chassis I choose for my project? I'll pretty much dump what I don't need. I'm hopeless at metal fabrication and not so good at shooting color. That's the reason I'm looking at a 'new' basic truck for modification.

 

For compatibility, my reasoning is that a Toyota chassis and body may be stronger and need fewer changes.

 

Although it's more difficult, I'm looking for validation of my preference to go the Ford route

[DavisH]

The 1uz and 3uz v8's are a common swap into toyota hiluxes here. 

 

[northsouthdevide]

Personally, I find it difficult to choose a winner between the Toyota and Ford 4x4 conversions that I see on the road.

There do seem to be a lot more Toyota, but that could also be down to finance availability, and such factors.

1 thing that does come to my mind is for offroad, isn't a v8 a little heavy?

Modern engines are smaller, lighterand quite powerful these days, and would be a lot kinder on brakes.

[alacrity]

16 hours ago, DavisH said:

The 1uz and 3uz v8's are a common swap into toyota hiluxes here. 

 

The 1UZ-FE looks to be a good fit and that's the motor I have. Like the exhaust note.

[alacrity]

4 hours ago, northsouthdevide said:

Personally, I find it difficult to choose a winner between the Toyota and Ford 4x4 conversions that I see on the road.

There do seem to be a lot more Toyota, but that could also be down to finance availability, and such factors.

1 thing that does come to my mind is for offroad, isn't a v8 a little heavy?

Modern engines are smaller, lighterand quite powerful these days, and would be a lot kinder on brakes.

Toyota's do seem to be more prevalent, which is one of the reasons I would prefer to use a Ford. They're not as common. That popularity doesn't appear to limit available options though. Although there may be less experience available to draw from.

 

The V8 is a motor I have. It's just sitting there, waiting for a home. It has an aluminium  block and weighs in at 320 lbs. So it's quite a bit lighter than a 2UZ and gives 300 hp normally aspirated. Test driving a Raptor put me right-off the smaller motors.

 

It's early days and I'm on a big learning curve planning this thing. As I progress and become more enlightened, I may better appreciate the wisdom in your words.

[wombat]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:59 PM, alacrity said:

 I'm hopeless at metal fabrication and not so good at shooting color. 

A mia noi would be less headaches if your 'guy' has gone to greener pasture

[chilly07]

Isuzu DMax. Isuzu only do Trucks!

[Excel]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:59 PM, alacrity said:

I tend to agree that Ford have lost their recent advantageous. However, I'll stand by my  opinion that the 3.2 Widtrack has been the best available truck in Thailand for a long time. Including the Raptor.

 

My quandary is; what body and chassis I choose for my project? I'll pretty much dump what I don't need. I'm hopeless at metal fabrication and not so good at shooting color. That's the reason I'm looking at a 'new' basic truck for modification.

 

For compatibility, my reasoning is that a Toyota chassis and body may be stronger and need fewer changes.

 

Although it's more difficult, I'm looking for validation of my preference to go the Ford route

In the states the Raptor has the bigger and better 6 cyl engine, so logically the Ford should suit your task here better.

[billd766]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:08 PM, pgrahmm said:

I would say go Toyota...The Ford had is fading here....

People that really used their trucks as Thai work vehicles dabbled with Ford's - but after a short time defaulted back to Toyota....They vote with their money....

 

Count the number of "working" Toyota trucks versus working Ford trucks by % & that should give you a good indication....

And then drive around the second hand truck sales tents.

 

Count the number of Toyotas and the number of Fords. There will be at least 10 times more Toyotas than Fords.

 

Ford owners tend to keep them a long time as they are strong and reliable. I still have my Ford Ranger 2.5 turbo diesel that I bought in 2001 and like most Fords it just keeps rattling on with 428,xxx km on the clock.

 

I have gone through, batteries, brakes, clutches and 1 radiator. Mostly fair wear and tear and all the dents, scratches etc except 1 are mine.

[VocalNeal]

On 4/23/2021 at 8:35 PM, alacrity said:

If I'm really only buying a chassis. What's the strongest?

 

I've never seen an anti aircraft gun in the back of a Ford? 

 

Chassis is just a couple of rails. Whichever is the deepest will be the strongest. All the other bits can be added. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by VocalNeal

[pgrahmm]

29 minutes ago, billd766 said:

And then drive around the second hand truck sales tents.

 

Count the number of Toyotas and the number of Fords. There will be at least 10 times more Toyotas than Fords.

 

Ford owners tend to keep them a long time as they are strong and reliable. I still have my Ford Ranger 2.5 turbo diesel that I bought in 2001 and like most Fords it just keeps rattling on with 428,xxx km on the clock.

 

I have gone through, batteries, brakes, clutches and 1 radiator. Mostly fair wear and tear and all the dents, scratches etc except 1 are mine.

 

Of course there will be more Toyotas - even on a down year <14%>  they still outsell Ford 5 to 1...There just isn't that many of them....

 Ford truck sales are down 43%..... Safe to say the Thai romance with them has waned - along with the fact that Ford was propped up as a popular choice for expats; of which there are fewer now.... 

Longevity also comes into play.....

The Thais dabbled & went back to either Toyota or Isuzu...

Edited April 25, 2021 by pgrahmm
Spell check sucks

[natway09]

If you pay a visit to Ford factory in Rayang, they will explain.

They assemble the big V8 for the US market (not available here) but the chasis may be

[millymoopoo]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:35 PM, alacrity said:

Thought about using my 3.2 Wildtrack as a donor, but I can't buy the same standard new. Even an upgrade to a Raptor (to replace) gives the same (new) poxy motor and gearbox, along with an additional tax disadvantage.

The Ford Ranger PX1 & 2 (P5AT - 3.2 engine) and other variants are the best Fords Ford Australia ever designed.! (avoid the new 2 litre twin turbo - unproven and probably over blown)
Powertrain provided by Mazda, another positive.

Chassis strength compared to Toyota probably much of a muchness as they are the same thickness and about the same size.

The huge upside from my experience is the P5AT engine, being a 5 cylinder it develops smooth constant power by overlapping the power stroke, something lacking in 4 cylinder engines.

My friends '3D' Toyota is left breathing my diesel fumes from the start, put a trailer on and he's back in the quickly disappearing distance.

Just because one brand outsells another does not always make them better.

[monty1412]

does anyone know who fitted the HiluX with the IUZ.. love to get that done and exhaust sounded oooooh aaaah 

 

[vinny41]

Total sales of Pick-up Trucks from January to December 2020 were 364,887 units, accounting for 46.1% of the total country sales of 792,146 units.

1st Place Isuzu D-max : 160,328 units

(44.1% market share)

2nd, Toyota Hilux Revo : 129,893 units

(35.1% market share)

3rd, Mitsubishi Triton: 25,704 units

(7.3% market share)

4th place Ford Ranger : 24,508 units

(6.5% market share)

https://www.headlightmag.com/sales-report-pick-up-truck-2020/

[vinny41]

For 2021 Dmax has overtaken hilux in total number of sales

 

Total sales of Pick-up Trucks from January to February 2021 are   52,182 units

1st Place Isuzu D-max : 26,313 units

(50.3% market share)

2nd, Toyota Hilux Revo : 16,361 units

(31.4% market share)

3rd, Ford Ranger: 4,081 units

(7.8% market share)

4th place Mitsubishi Triton : 3,070 units

(5.9% market share)

No. 5 Nissan Navara : 1,111 units

(2.1% market share)

https://www.headlightmag.com/sales-report-pick-up-feb-2021/

[kwonitoy]

On 4/23/2021 at 8:35 PM, alacrity said:

If I'm really only buying a chassis. What's the strongest?

When I had a E-tan built some years ago the builder had a selection of frames to choose from, he recommended the Mitsubishi frame as it was the strongest of the small trucks. Honestly to me they looked about the same

[billd766]

5 hours ago, pgrahmm said:

 

Of course there will be more Toyotas - even on a down year <14%>  they still outsell Ford 5 to 1...There just isn't that many of them....

 Ford truck sales are down 43%..... Safe to say the Thai romance with them has waned - along with the fact that Ford was propped up as a popular choice for expats; of which there are fewer now.... 

Longevity also comes into play.....

The Thais dabbled & went back to either Toyota or Isuzu...

Actually when we bought the Ford I actually wanted to buy a Toyota. However SWMBO decided the Ford was what She wanted, and using feminine logic and wiles she gently mentioned that if we bought a Toyota, it would be a case of no nookie for a long while.

 

Faced with a choice like that I gave in. To me, one truck is much like another one, if I can drive one I can drive any other.

 

Decades ago I had a temporary job as a truck driver and the beastie I ended up with had a 5 speed crash gearbox and a 2 speed rear axle. I quickly learned how to double declutch to go through the gears.

 

Oddly enough I still do it now and again.

 

If I could drive that, the Ford is a doddle.

 

When SWMBO or I win the lottery the next car will be a Ford too.

[alacrity]

6 hours ago, wombat said:

A mia noi would be less headaches if your 'guy' has gone to greener pasture

For sure, there's some very good frames and bodies available there. Folks I know had many migraines from that option though.

[alacrity]

5 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

 

I've never seen an anti aircraft gun in the back of a Ford? 

 

Chassis is just a couple of rails. Whichever is the deepest will be the strongest. All the other bits can be added. 

I'm guessing, but I don't think the Ford brand is too popular in such regions. Live firings I've seen show that the chassis/suspension arrangement leaves a lot to be desired.

A chassis is a bit more than just two rails. Torsional stress is an important factor when good articulation is important.

 

Seems to be a dearth of chassis specifications around so it's difficult to choose the 'strongest' one. Today, discovered that older Mazda trucks have the same chassis as Ford. Confirmed by barcode.

Beginning to look like selecting a frame is just a 'coin toss'.

[alacrity]

4 hours ago, monty1412 said:

does anyone know who fitted the HiluX with the IUZ.. love to get that done and exhaust sounded oooooh aaaah 

 

I considered that, also. Look at the video again. There's a company name. I assumed it was more of a promo video from them.

[gunderhill]

6 hours ago, Excel said:

In the states the Raptor has the bigger and better 6 cyl engine, so logically the Ford should suit your task here better.

In which case why not a  Chevrolet  Colorado as they too  have  much bigger  engines in the States, there are  still a  few  kicking around new for well under 500k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKMQjm7i2Jw&ab_channel=CarDataVideo

Edited April 25, 2021 by gunderhill

[vinny41]

21 minutes ago, alacrity said:

I'm guessing, but I don't think the Ford brand is too popular in such regions. Live firings I've seen show that the chassis/suspension arrangement leaves a lot to be desired.

A chassis is a bit more than just two rails. Torsional stress is an important factor when good articulation is important.

 

Seems to be a dearth of chassis specifications around so it's difficult to choose the 'strongest' one. Today, discovered that older Mazda trucks have the same chassis as Ford. Confirmed by barcode.

Beginning to look like selecting a frame is just a 'coin toss'.

The Mazda BT-50 is a compact/mid-size pickup truck produced by the Japanese manufacturer Mazda since 2006. It is a larger version of the predecessor B-Series pickup and is not sold in the Japanese and North American markets. The second-generation Ranger has been designed by Ford Australia, with a Mazda derivative sold as the BT-50. The third-generation BT-50 was revealed in 2020, now based on the Isuzu D-Max.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_BT-50

[alacrity]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

And then drive around the second hand truck sales tents.

 

Count the number of Toyotas and the number of Fords. There will be at least 10 times more Toyotas than Fords.

 

Ford owners tend to keep them a long time as they are strong and reliable. I still have my Ford Ranger 2.5 turbo diesel that I bought in 2001 and like most Fords it just keeps rattling on with 428,xxx km on the clock.

 

I have gone through, batteries, brakes, clutches and 1 radiator. Mostly fair wear and tear and all the dents, scratches etc except 1 are mine.

Have driven quite a few Toyota's at times when others; Mitsubishi and Nissan' were available and driven. My first, time I soon learned that if you didn't breakfast really early, you wouldn't be driving a Toyota that day. Mostly I/we got to drive a Nissan Pathfinder. The Toyota's got stuck, a lot, to such a degree that later in the deployment, if you didn't breakfast really early, you wouldn't be driving a Nissan.

 

My experiences have shown me that Toyota's are an over-rated Japanese product. Have always found another (Japanese) equivalent to be better.

 

Once I've decided on a frame, I've considered looking at pre-owned trucks. Trouble is, the inspection could be problematic and I need a pristine body too.

 

A Mitsubishi frame has been suggested, but I can't live with that body style.  Still looking like Ford's my best option. Had a Wildtrack for 5 years and understand a lot of it's strengths and weaknesses. Just modifying one could be my easiest option. Still using the V8 and changing the torque converter.

 

Would need to search the tents for that one.

[DavisH]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

And then drive around the second hand truck sales tents.

 

Count the number of Toyotas and the number of Fords. There will be at least 10 times more Toyotas than Fords.

 

Ford owners tend to keep them a long time as they are strong and reliable. I still have my Ford Ranger 2.5 turbo diesel that I bought in 2001 and like most Fords it just keeps rattling on with 428,xxx km on the clock.

 

I have gone through, batteries, brakes, clutches and 1 radiator. Mostly fair wear and tear and all the dents, scratches etc except 1 are mine.

There 10 times more toyotas because they sell 10 times more. Not look at the resale of a 10 year old ranger compared to a hilux. 

[DavisH]

57 minutes ago, alacrity said:

I considered that, also. Look at the video again. There's a company name. I assumed it was more of a promo video from them.

That was an exhaust shop that made the exhaust for the car. This swap seems to be quite common here (into a hilux), so I think getting the engine mounts would be no problem. There are several other videos of such a swap in Thiland on youtube. I think you could ask in the comments section there, or ask on a Thai hilux facebook page. Generally people will respond. The downside toa  toyota is you will pay a premium even for an old car - at least 300K+

Edited April 25, 2021 by DavisH

[NanLaew]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:08 PM, pgrahmm said:

I would say go Toyota...The Ford had is fading here....

Citation needed.

 

On 4/23/2021 at 9:08 PM, pgrahmm said:

People that really used their trucks as Thai work vehicles dabbled with Ford's - but after a short time defaulted back to Toyota....They vote with their money....

Citation needed.

 

On 4/23/2021 at 9:08 PM, pgrahmm said:

Count the number of "working" Toyota trucks versus working Ford trucks by % & that should give you a good indication....

And, citation needed.

 

Thanks for playing.

 

For the OP, as a true blue (oval) Ford fan, I can thoroughly recommend the Toyota Tiger, early 2000 model.

 

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, millymoopoo said:

The Ford Ranger PX1 & 2 (P5AT - 3.2 engine) and other variants are the best Fords Ford Australia ever designed.!

 

Two and half million Transit vans can't be wrong either.