Sinovac or wait ...?

[DBath]

30 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

 

"No but Piszer is working on tabs you can take orally...."

No thanks, I'll wait for a suppository version to come out, and who is Piszer?? (BTW, either you clearly did not get my post or pretended not to).

[tifino]

that Efficacy word really gets thrown around...

but really; it comes down to what Factors are being considered, and their relative priorities:

 

 - the hope for Resistance

 - the hope against onTransmitting to others

 - the hope for minimising the suffering/ maximising survivabilty of those who catch it 

 

 

 

well, the first two are moot points, due to being unachievable

 - ' so all that's left is option three

 

given the above; does anyone have good Links to see which of/and/or all (of the three options) that the Pharms are Claiming their Efficasy %figures against??  

 

 

 

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, tifino said:

that Efficacy word really gets thrown around...

but really; it comes down to what Factors are being considered, and their relative priorities:

 

 - the hope for Resistance

 - the hope against onTransmitting to others

 - the hope for minimising the suffering/ maximising survivabilty of those who catch it 

 

 

 

well, the first two are moot points, due to being unachievable

 - ' so all that's left is option three

 

given the above; does anyone have good Links to see which of/and/or all (of the three options) that the Pharms are Claiming their Efficasy %figures against??  

 

 

 

I've seen this kind of request before and it really hinges on what you mean by "good links"?

Anyway, here is a link to a massive study done  in Chile

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/chinas-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-67-effective-preventing-symptomatic-infection-2021-04-16/

Edited May 24, 2021 by placeholder

[Heng]

For me, it's wait.  Retired, the only people I come into close contact with are my family, neighbors are around 50 meters away on each side with salty sea air washing that Covid away everyday.  ????

 

If I had to stay in my city place (condo: which is basically a vertical cruise ship in terms of how easy it is to spread disease), if I as still working, then yes fine, Sinovac.   

[Ireland32]

You would have to be Frigging Ting Tong to get Chinese Vaccine , How can you travel with Chinese Vaccine or Russian Vaccine...

[Ireland32]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

I've seen this kind of request before and it really hinges on what you mean by "good links"?

Anyway, here is a link to a massive study done  in Chile

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/chinas-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-67-effective-preventing-symptomatic-infection-2021-04-16/

China make Bioweapons and Chinese make Vaccine , Lunacy to take Vaccine 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Ireland32 said:

China make Bioweapons and Chinese make Vaccine , Lunacy to take Vaccine 

Because?

[Ireland32]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Because?

Think , I know it’s a tough one 

[Tony125]

 

Thailand to extend dose gap for AstraZeneca vaccine to 16 weeks

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/thailand-extend-dose-gap-astrazeneca-141830543.html

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

 

Thailand to extend dose gap for AstraZeneca vaccine to 16 weeks

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/thailand-extend-dose-gap-astrazeneca-141830543.html

ie......supplies are going to be severely restricted.

[chessman]

1. If you look deeper at the ‘50% effective’ statistic often given for Sinovac, it came about after trials with frontline healthcare workers in Brazil... So research  with  people exposed to Covid constantly. Just under 50% did get Covid... but most of the cases were mild and there were no deaths. In research with more representative samples of people the efficacy of Sinovac has been higher.

 

2. the travel question is a wild card. I think countries desperately want to avoid vaccine passports because it will be a red tape nightmare. But if cases and deaths increase again in the Autumn and winter later this year (as they did last year) then I think they will become inevitable. Then you have to wonder if the US, UK and EU will approve the Russian and Chinese vaccines and whether having it will cause you any problems if you wish to travel to those countries.

 

3. without minimising this virus, it is also true that surveys have shown that people are massively overestimating the danger of the virus. Depending on your own health situation and your ability to avoid risky situations, I don’t think it’s crazy to conclude that you are at very low risk of catching it and waiting for your preferred virus.

[shdmn]

7 hours ago, placeholder said:

Because?

Put on your tinfoil hat and connect the dots sheeple.

Edited May 24, 2021 by shdmn

[shdmn]

4 hours ago, Ireland32 said:

Think , I know it’s a tough one 

So I thought about it.  The US, UK, and the EU all do bioweapons research and they also make vaccines.  So what do I need to think now?

Edited May 24, 2021 by shdmn

[MrJ2U]

I wouldn't take the Sinovac jab and most Thais aren't stupid enough to take it either.  Theres been no peer review so there obviously hiding the horid efficiency rating.

[Crossy]

18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Sinovac has been approved by WHO for emergency use. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56967973

 

I see that Sinopharm is been approved, Sinovac is a different animal!

 

Later in the same article "A decision is expected in the coming days on another Chinese vaccine developed by Sinovac, while Russia's Sputnik vaccine is under assessment."

 

EDIT The PM has apparently stated that Sinovac will get WHO approval this week.

 

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, shdmn said:

So I thought about it.  The US, UK, and the EU all do bioweapons research and they also make vaccines.  So what do I need to think now?

Maybe Ireland32 thinks that bioweapons and vaccines and brewed up in the same lab and that sometimes the bioweapons team forgets to wash the pots?

[watthong]

Personally I would like to take this opportunity to thank - and please this is NOT a sarcastic comment - sincerely those who say NO to Sinovac, for sparing the doses so that others, myself included, in their lesser wisdom but stronger survival instinct, would clamber up for. (Post vaccination, I will still observe the safety caution, until the majority of people around me get vaccinated one way or another, or buy myself an island, whichever comes first.)

[Mansell]

On 5/24/2021 at 8:24 AM, Ketyo said:

Probably better to take it.

 

2 doses are supposedly quite effective at stopping people getting hospitalised or dying. But it's bad at stopping people catching serious, mild and symptomless cases compared to western vaccines.

 

It means that even if a large fraction of the population takes Sinovac, COVID is still going to circulate. It's almost impossible to get to herd immunity with weak vaccines.

 

The worst case would be to be the unvaccinated person when everyone else is vaccinated with Chinese (but not dying) and COVID is circulating at high levels. It would be a risky position to be in.  That's what could happen is we waiting for a western vaccine as they open up.

 

Look at Chile, Mongolia, Hungary, Serbia, Maldives, Seychelles, UAE, Turkey. All relied a lot on Chinese vaccines and have got very high vaccination rates.... but still had large waves of cases (and deaths) when they tried to open up. 

I think you may be wrong about Mongolia. I have friends there and they have no interest in anything Chinese. They would rather take the Russian version.

[Pib]

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Sinovac has been approved by WHO for emergency use. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56967973

 

 

Above 7 May article was talking the Chinese vaccine Sinophram which is different from the Chinese vaccine  Sinovac.   Two different vaccines.   But supposedly the WHO will approve the Sinovac vaccine later this week.

 

 

 

Below 4 May article talks the various Chinese vaccines....apparently five of them but the Sinophram and Sinovac vaccines are the ones you likely see outside of China. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01146-0

 

 

 

[placeholder]

30 minutes ago, Mansell said:

I think you may be wrong about Mongolia. I have friends there and they have no interest in anything Chinese. They would rather take the Russian version.

Is the Russian version widely available there? The Russians have run into manufacturing problems:

COVID-19 vaccine: Here's why Russia is struggling to make Sputnik V doses

https://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/pharma/covid-19-vaccine-here-why-russia-is-struggling-to-make-sputnik-v-doses/story/439057.html

 

And over 50% of Mongolians have received at least one dose of vaccine:

 

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/mongolia

[Ireland32]

9 hours ago, shdmn said:

So I thought about it.  The US, UK, and the EU all do bioweapons research and they also make vaccines.  So what do I need to think now?

Go collect your 50 cents from CCP , 50 cent army warrior Wumao 

[rabas]

58 minutes ago, Mansell said:

I think you may be wrong about Mongolia. I have friends there and they have no interest in anything Chinese. They would rather take the Russian version.

We also have Mongolian friends and they definitely identify with Russia more than China.  Russian is their second language although that's starting to change in favor of English.

 

Vaccine wise, they started with AZ then China gifted them a large amount of Sinopharm. After a sharp outbreak in April, likely from the UK variant, they have switched to Sputnik, buying 1,000,000 doses and receiving 300,000 as a gift from Russia.

 

So Mongolia is likely another country disappointed with Chinese vaccines.

 

https://montsame.mn/en/read/262009

[rabas]

Here is maybe the best data on relative efficacy between vaccines. A study published in Nature Medicine compares relative efficacy and neutralization antibodies (immune response). A bit complicated but the graph clearly shows the relative relationships. 

 

Fig. 1: Understanding the relationship between neutralization and protection. (Click to zoom)

The full paper is here:

Neutralizing antibody levels are highly predictive of immune protection from symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection

[JCauto]

21 hours ago, BoganInParasite said:

Might be best if you refrained from posting when not lucid. Or perhaps take time first to read and understand a comment. Remember, brain in gear before opening mouth.

Are you now talking to yourself?

To reiterate, you have "judged" the risk to yourself and wife as being minimal since you presumably are taking precautions - that's sensible and proper to take precautions. However, you're "waiting" on studies about the vaccine while ignoring the basic and obvious evidence that is all around you. So you're basically comparing the risk of getting COVID-19 and having a really bad outcome (death or long-hauler) to the risk of the vaccine causing a really bad outcome (blood clotting or some other side-effect causing death or stroke or other long-term negative health problem). 

Hence my comment, you are comparing risks that are several different orders of magnitude as if they are somewhat similar - they're not. Your chances of getting COVID-19 are far far far far higher than any potential side-effect from the vaccine, and if you get COVID-19 your chances of a major negative outcome are far far far far higher than if you get a side-effect from the vaccine. So you're exposing yourself and your wife, as well as any others you come across to potentially life-threatening risk to avoid a risk that's less likely than being struck by lightning.

Edited May 25, 2021 by JCauto
removed one of two "are" in a sentence.

[Heng]

Don't worry, we have our scientists working on Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson and Johnson labels to slap on all these Sinovac vials so you can get whatever vaccine you want!

[JCauto]

21 hours ago, millymoopoo said:

Perhaps you may like to check reliable studies and results from sources like Mayo clinic, Yale and Biospace.

All show A Z, Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson and Novavax having higher efficacy rates than the Chinese, Russian and Indian vaccines, and of those, none are peer reviewed...!

Infact sinovac efficacy rates are shown as fluctuating wildly depending on the study group, thus suggesting inaccuracy.!
https://www.biospace.com/article/comparing-covid-19-vaccines-pfizer-biontech-moderna-astrazeneca-oxford-j-and-j-russia-s-sputnik-v/  
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison  

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859

Right. So quoting 37% efficacy was not pulling something out of your <deleted> then?

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

We also have Mongolian friends and they definitely identify with Russia more than China.  Russian is their second language although that's starting to change in favor of English.

 

Vaccine wise, they started with AZ then China gifted them a large amount of Sinopharm. After a sharp outbreak in April, likely from the UK variant, they have switched to Sputnik, buying 1,000,000 doses and receiving 300,000 as a gift from Russia.

 

So Mongolia is likely another country disappointed with Chinese vaccines.

 

https://montsame.mn/en/read/262009

Actually, as of the date of that article, they have received only 20,000 doses of Sputnik. As to why the switch, we can only speculate. Could be that they don't like the results with Coronavac. Could be that Sputnik charged less. Who knows?

[rabas]

35 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually, as of the date of that article, they have received only 20,000 doses of Sputnik. As to why the switch, we can only speculate. Could be that they don't like the results with Coronavac. Could be that Sputnik charged less. Who knows?

As of the article's date April 28:

 

Another 40,000 doses of Sputnik-V ordered from Russia will arrive on April 30.

 

And, "The State Emergency Commission has also reported that Mongolia established an agreement with Russia to purchase a total of 1 million doses of Sputnik-V vaccine from Russia, ... to arrive by mid-May. Moreover, Russia has pledged to provide 300,000 doses of the Sputnik-V for humanitarian purposes."

 

You may speculate as you wish but it looks like Mongolia has made up its mind.

[millymoopoo]

1 hour ago, JCauto said:

Right. So quoting 37% efficacy was not pulling something out of your <deleted> then?

Again you may like to read it properly 'Sinovac is at about 37% effective' quite clearly indicating it is not an accurate number, and that's the whole point about sinovac, there are no accurate numbers, different studies show wildly differing results...!

And the obvious deletion of your expletives from your comments goes to the validity of them..!

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, rabas said:

As of the article's date April 28:

 

Another 40,000 doses of Sputnik-V ordered from Russia will arrive on April 30.

 

And, "The State Emergency Commission has also reported that Mongolia established an agreement with Russia to purchase a total of 1 million doses of Sputnik-V vaccine from Russia, ... to arrive by mid-May. Moreover, Russia has pledged to provide 300,000 doses of the Sputnik-V for humanitarian purposes."

 

You may speculate as you wish but it looks like Mongolia has made up its mind.

Actually, it looks like Mongolia was playing China and Russia off against each other. And doing so very successfully. No evidence from the article linked to below that the Mongolian govt. was unhappy with the Chinese vaccine.

 

Countries Are Scrambling for Vaccines. Mongolia Has Plenty.

By playing off its big neighbors, Russia and China, Mongolia has emerged as a positive outlier among developing nations on the hunt for shots.

Russia has sold Mongolia one million doses of its Sputnik V vaccine. China has provided four million doses of vaccine — the final shipment of doses arrived this week. Mongolia’s most recent agreement with China’s Sinopharm Group, which is state-owned, was made days before the company received emergency authorization from the World Health Organization.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/20/business/coronavirus-vaccine-mongolia.html