The true cost of paradise.

[4MyEgo]

34 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Which makes Pneumonia odd ......... my pal had Pneumonia age 58, medically shipped back to the UK and promptly diagnosed as having AIDs. Yes, 45k deaths is probably includes a lot of AIDs victims.

 

Did they give your pal an HIV test?

It's only 250bht.

 

 No idea, know he is still on that portable breathing thing to get oxygen, months later.

 

Eidt: Lungs collapsed twice, so doubt it's HIV.

[2k6]

Something to ponder as we get older The inventor of the treadmill died at the age of 54   ???? The inventor of gymnastics died at the age of 57   ????  The world bodybuilding champion  died at the age of 41   ????  The best footballer in the world, Maradona, died at the age of 60   ???? And then.. KFC inventor dies at 94   ????  Investor of Nutella brand died at the age of 88   ????  Cigarette maker Winston  died at the age of 102   ????  The inventor of opium died at the age of 116 in an earthquake   ☺   ️Hennessy inventor dies at 98   ???? How did doctors come to the conclusion that exercise prolongs life?  The rabbit is always jumping, but it lives for only 2 years. The turtle that doesn’t exercise at all, lives  400 years. So, Have a drink  Take a nap  If you wake up, have bacon & eggs!

[BigStar]

40 minutes ago, 2k6 said:

How did doctors come to the conclusion that exercise prolongs life?  

Doctors don't say that for good reason. But who always claims they do?????It's merely one of the favorite self-serving straw man arguments raised against healthy lifestyles by those too weak or lazy to live one themselves.  Increasing the probability of one's foreshortened lifespan is rather popular around here, however, until posters hit the Health forum, however. Then the cartoons, the jokes, the sour grapes, and the bravado all end. Why is that?

 

40 minutes ago, 2k6 said:

So, Have a drink  Take a nap  If you wake up, have bacon & eggs!

Good ideas. Red wine in moderation, short naps, low carb. ???? But now you've opened a can of worms . . . we'll soon have the usual invocations to genetic voodoo to counter. Can't argue with that, though, eh?

[simon43]

[quote]

...Policies from non-Thai western Insurers are typically double, giving the proposed $500 monthly or that amount would get you around 8 million baht cover per case with Thai Insurer, with no deducts. 

[/quote]

 

I pay $206 per month for $1 million USD cover with medivac included, from a European company, guaranteed cover for life, (although of course the premiums will increase in age bands). I'm 62 years old.

 

BUT - the important point is that I took out that policy when I was ailment-free (I still am), a few years before I turned 60 years old.  Of course you will have to pay a higher premium or even be refused cover if you wait until you are overweight, have high BP etc.

[Excel]

1 hour ago, 2k6 said:

Something to ponder as we get older The inventor of the treadmill died at the age of 54   ???? The inventor of gymnastics died at the age of 57   ????  The world bodybuilding champion  died at the age of 41   ????  The best footballer in the world, Maradona, died at the age of 60   ???? And then.. KFC inventor dies at 94   ????  Investor of Nutella brand died at the age of 88   ????  Cigarette maker Winston  died at the age of 102   ????  The inventor of opium died at the age of 116 in an earthquake   ☺   ️Hennessy inventor dies at 98   ???? How did doctors come to the conclusion that exercise prolongs life?  The rabbit is always jumping, but it lives for only 2 years. The turtle that doesn’t exercise at all, lives  400 years. So, Have a drink  Take a nap  If you wake up, have bacon & eggs!

That say it all.

 

However To add to that Roy Castle died of Lung cancer aged 62 and he never smoked nor did Bobby Moore who died aged 51. The UKs Queen is 95 , her husband was 99 when he died and her Mother was 101 when she died but her Sister who did smoke died when she was 71.

 

So what does this all tell us ? absolutely nothing except when your time is up it is up, so enjoy it whilst you can.

[polpott]

I was diagnosed with having a "big heart" by a cardiologist at BPH. No further detailed diagnosis offered. Having spoken to and sent the results of an ECG and Echo cardiogram to members of my family who are medics in the UK, I was offered the diagnosis of "heart failure". Flew back to the UK and am now under treatment for said condition by the NHS for free. Much improved and having also had both doses of the Covid vaccine for free, am now making plans for my imminent return to Thailand. Who needs health insurance?

[sqwakvfr]

Health Insurance in Thailand is now in the Covid 19 world  I am under 60 and before the mandatory Covid 19 coverage of $100,000 was implemented my annual premium for the mandatory OA Visa Health Insurance was just slight above $1,000.  With the addition of the $100,000 Covid 19 coverage my annual premium went over $2,000.  The insurance company i am with does not officer a monthly payment program but if they did my pro-rated monthly premium would be $167.  

[KannikaP]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

My 4 monthly check ups have been good for me and doc is happy.

If & when the Doc finds something he is not happy with? Then what?

[BritManToo]

50 minutes ago, josthomz said:

Are you 100% sure that if now you got cancer, and couldn't afford any treatment, you would just let it be and happily die without treatment instead of trying to somehow get the money to pay for the treatment?

I currently have all the symptoms of cancer but decided not to have it investigated.

If it's cancer I'll die, if it's something else (unlikely) I won't.

I'd probably have made the same decision if I were in the UK and treatment was free.

 

I also refused treatment for gallstones they said would kill me if I didn't have the op, that was 8 years ago and I'm still here, no gallstone problems.

 

So 100% sure.

[JAFO]

8 hours ago, canthai55 said:

what they spent on booze and cigs for the past 20 years

While I agree on cigs,  but unless a full on hard core alcoholic, the alcohol aspect isn't as big as the general lack of physical activity leading to obesity which leads to a long list of ailments that plague them, (Diabetes, High BP, High Cholesterol, Heart disease, Joint failure from excessive weight. etc etc). Those issues lead to other issues and high pharmaceutical costs coupled with the side effects of the meds. Staying physically active is the best best thing anyone can do for themselves. Just simple 1 hr a day of walking, riding a bike, hiking. 

 

As for Med insurance, I have it through work here in Thailand at this time and its free but will likely continue when I retire. I will offer this bit of advice, I highly encourage anyone moving here to keep a bank acct with a CC in good standing in your home country. Its a great emergency back up in the event you need it.    

[BigStar]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Not noticed much difference between the 'gross abusers' and the 'health nuts'.

Same chance of cancer, dementia, lung disease.

Maybe slightly reduced chance of heart disease.

Living a healthy lifestyle doesn't make you live any longer, although it may seem a lot longer.

Others, lacking your remarkable ability to draw general conclusions from your personal "noticing," seem to have noticed something, however.

 

Study of a high physical exercise cohort compared with community controls over more than 20 years showed that disability at age 80 years had been postponed by nearly 16 years while mortality had been postponed about 7 years in the exercise cohort as opposed to controls. A similar study compared three groups of university alumni divided at baseline into cohorts with zero, one, or two/three major risk factors out of exercise, weight, and tobacco use and followed from age 69 to almost 90 years of age. The zero initial risk factor cohort postponed morbidity by 10 years and mortality by 3.3 years compared to high risk. The differences increased over time, occurred in all subgroups, and persisted after statistical adjustment.

 

    --“On the Compression of Morbidity: From 1980 to 2015 and Beyond.” Handbook of the Biology of Aging, Jan. 2016, pp. 507–24. www.sciencedirect.com, doi:10.1016/B978-0-12-411596-5.00019-8.

 

And, as is typical around here, you imagine a healthy lifestyle is all about lifespan so to invoke our fave excuse: the dreaded "extra years in the bedsit" paradigm. In reality it's about healthspan--feeling great while remaining free of chronic diseases as long as possible--and compressing morbidity. Fewer years of disease, less expense, fewer years in the bedsit.

 

Suddenly I'm seeing a bunch of old fat guys sputtering at their keyboards and reaching for their blood pressure monitors. (Omron is our preferred machine.)

 

The Compression of morbidity paradigm envisions reduction in cumulative lifetime morbidity through primary prevention by postponing the age of onset of morbidity to a greater amount than life expectancy is increased, largely by reducing the lifestyle health risks which cause morbidity and disability. Recent data document slowly improving age-specific health status for seniors, indicate that postponement of the onset of disability by at least 10 years is feasible, and prove effectiveness of some lifestyle interventions by randomized controlled trials. Human aging is increasingly represented by frailty, with declining reserve function of many organ systems, including the immune system.

 

Fries, J. F. “Compression of Morbidity in the Elderly.” Vaccine, vol. 18, no. 16, Feb. 2000, pp. 1584–89. PubMed, doi:10.1016/s0264-410x(99)00490-9.

 

This is awfully complicated, so a graph and readable article:

 

   

--“Matters of Health (Part 4a).” Cardiologydoc’s Blog, 5 Oct. 2011, https://cardiologydoc.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/matters-of-health-part-4a/.

 

 

Why wouldn't anyone, unless mentally depressed, prefer to postpone all the usual chronic diseases and immobility until a much shorter period of suffering closer to The End of at least a normal lifespan?

 

Nobody's told me I have the genes of a centenarian. Unlike many of our TVF Health Experts, I deal in probabilities rather than Absolute Certainties. No, I don't find it difficult to make some adjustments to maximize the probabilities. No, I'm not stressing out over anything, esp. the need to take my meds on time. And I'm very much enjoying my life. It all seems to be working so far, as I still feel great, stay fit, spend nothing on docs, hospitals, and meds, have never had any events, and all the biomarkers are good. BPH ain't bothering me; you?

 

I just addressed a few of our common excuses. The point for the topic is that spending on healthcare can be significantly, even drastically, reduced and postponed and therefore the amount of health insurance needed or amount kept in reserve from early on for self-insurance. I agree that healthcare planning is critical, so I worked at a Thai company a few years to get Thai SS. Anybody younger than 60 should find a way to do that. Still, you have to consider optional extras not covered. Want the latest and greatest world-class this or that, you'll have to pay up somewhere.

[Grecian]

5 hours ago, Saltire said:

Yes my health is my only worry in Thailand.

 

I have a UK policy for 6 years now with £325k (Baht 14 million) cover, premium £1200PA. I could take one big hit self insured if they refuse a claim, and I got the Roojai Covid-only insurance, but I still think I am at risk.

 

My UK policy was due up to a 50% hike as I turned 66 in Feb, so I emailed them for a quote to see if I should be looking around. To my absolute surprise they wrote to me offering the same price for one more year (no increase) due to my loyalty and no claim situation, even changing their mind about cover for my pre-existing conditions and Covid.

 

So if my UK policy doesn't pay, Roojai cover proves useless and I run out of savings there's always a Go Fund Me as a last resort.

 

 

Do you mind saying which company you use?

[Grecian]

45 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Others, lacking your remarkable ability to draw general conclusions from your personal "noticing," seem to have noticed something, however.

 

Study of a high physical exercise cohort compared with community controls over more than 20 years showed that disability at age 80 years had been postponed by nearly 16 years while mortality had been postponed about 7 years in the exercise cohort as opposed to controls. A similar study compared three groups of university alumni divided at baseline into cohorts with zero, one, or two/three major risk factors out of exercise, weight, and tobacco use and followed from age 69 to almost 90 years of age. The zero initial risk factor cohort postponed morbidity by 10 years and mortality by 3.3 years compared to high risk. The differences increased over time, occurred in all subgroups, and persisted after statistical adjustment.

 

    --“On the Compression of Morbidity: From 1980 to 2015 and Beyond.” Handbook of the Biology of Aging, Jan. 2016, pp. 507–24. www.sciencedirect.com, doi:10.1016/B978-0-12-411596-5.00019-8.

 

And, as is typical around here, you imagine a healthy lifestyle is all about lifespan so to invoke our fave excuse: the dreaded "extra years in the bedsit" paradigm. In reality it's about healthspan--feeling great while remaining free of chronic diseases as long as possible--and compressing morbidity. Fewer years of disease, less expense, fewer years in the bedsit.

 

Suddenly I'm seeing a bunch of old fat guys sputtering at their keyboards and reaching for their blood pressure monitors. (Omron is our preferred machine.)

 

The Compression of morbidity paradigm envisions reduction in cumulative lifetime morbidity through primary prevention by postponing the age of onset of morbidity to a greater amount than life expectancy is increased, largely by reducing the lifestyle health risks which cause morbidity and disability. Recent data document slowly improving age-specific health status for seniors, indicate that postponement of the onset of disability by at least 10 years is feasible, and prove effectiveness of some lifestyle interventions by randomized controlled trials. Human aging is increasingly represented by frailty, with declining reserve function of many organ systems, including the immune system.

 

Fries, J. F. “Compression of Morbidity in the Elderly.” Vaccine, vol. 18, no. 16, Feb. 2000, pp. 1584–89. PubMed, doi:10.1016/s0264-410x(99)00490-9.

 

This is awfully complicated, so a graph and readable article:

 

   

--“Matters of Health (Part 4a).” Cardiologydoc’s Blog, 5 Oct. 2011, https://cardiologydoc.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/matters-of-health-part-4a/.

 

 

Why wouldn't anyone, unless mentally depressed, prefer to postpone all the usual chronic diseases and immobility until a much shorter period of suffering closer to The End of at least a normal lifespan?

 

Nobody's told me I have the genes of a centenarian. Unlike many of our TVF Health Experts, I deal in probabilities rather than Absolute Certainties. No, I don't find it difficult to make some adjustments to maximize the probabilities. No, I'm not stressing out over anything, esp. the need to take my meds on time. And I'm very much enjoying my life. It all seems to be working so far, as I still feel great, stay fit, spend nothing on docs, hospitals, and meds, have never had any events, and all the biomarkers are good. BPH ain't bothering me; you?

 

I just addressed a few of our common excuses. The point for the topic is that spending on healthcare can be significantly, even drastically, reduced and postponed and therefore the amount of health insurance needed or amount kept in reserve from early on for self-insurance. I agree that healthcare planning is critical, so I worked at a Thai company a few years to get Thai SS. Anybody younger than 60 should find a way to do that. Still, you have to consider optional extras not covered. Want the latest and greatest world-class this or that, you'll have to pay up somewhere.

How many years do you need to work at a Thai company to get SS, presumably for life?

[Saltire]

35 minutes ago, Grecian said:

Do you mind saying which company you use?

I use HCI (Health Care International)

 

Like most insurance companies they get a range of good and bad reviews. I am hoping I don't have to make a claim to find out but so far they offer good service, very responsive to requests for information etc. Cover also includes 30 day trips outside Thailand including home and USA.

 

THey must be smart too as if you use Bumrungrad they add a 30% co Pay to cover the inflation.

 

 

 

 

[talahtnut]

Ten years ago my doc told meto take these tabs cos your gonna die

any day soon, I took one and chucked the rest, the doc died 2 years ago.

I figured laughing and loving and working on your interests without a

care in the world is the best medicine. ie, kick the bucket with style.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

BPH ain't bothering me; you?

I was running in the mountains 3 days a week, and cycling 20km the other days.

At age 62/63 BPH and probably cancer got me, so I can't do any of those now.

 

I wish I hadn't wasted my time with the exercise, and should have drunk, smoked and taken more drugs.

[BigStar]

50 minutes ago, Grecian said:

How many years do you need to work at a Thai company to get SS, presumably for life?

Only 2 years, I think. There are some posts about it in the Health forum. Yes, for life, including meds. You'll choose one public hospital from a list, some of which are quite good. You can be treated at public hospitals other than your "base" only in case of emergency or if approved for a particular purpose. 

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, KannikaP said:

If & when the Doc finds something he is not happy with? Then what?

Take the meds of course what are you on about. 

[Kwasaki]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I was running in the mountains 3 days a week, and cycling 20km the other days.

At age 62/63 BPH and probably cancer got me, so I can't do any of those now.

 

I wish I hadn't wasted my time with the exercise, and should have drunk, smoked and taken more drugs.

And got more women to nurse me. ????????????????????????

[bkk6060]

$500 a month never seen that here.  I pay $250 a month for a good Aetna plan.

 

Most do not have insurance and have a bit of arrogance about it saying not getting ripped off and are "self insured".  I know some of these guys think 100,000 b is enough to be self insured, what a joke.

When they get sick it is not so funny is it.

[KannikaP]

21 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Take the meds of course what are you on about. 

Sorry, you never mentioned the Doc prescribing any medication, just that he was happy. 

[canthai55]

34 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I wish I hadn't wasted my time with the exercise, and should have drunk, smoked and taken more drugs.

555 - Nice One !

[BigStar]

51 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I was running in the mountains 3 days a week, and cycling 20km the other days.

At age 62/63 BPH and probably cancer got me, so I can't do any of those now.

 

I wish I hadn't wasted my time with the exercise, and should have drunk, smoked and taken more drugs.

 

Typical double down swagger for the peanut gallery. Reminds of those T-shirts commonly sold to tourists in Pattaya: I spent most of my money on beer and women; the rest I just wasted. Hee hee. One of the most amusing examples was that of @Bill Poster recently. High blood pressure, overweight, perhaps undiagnosed latent diabetes (need for sugary dessert after eating full meal),

 

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates 88 million adult Americans have prediabetes, and more than 84 percent go undiagnosed.

     --https://www.healthline.com/health/diabetes/facts-statistics-infographic#types

 

and now BPH. Me, I'd take that as a sign to start working to forestall worse problems.

 

It's Never Too Late: Five Healthy Steps at Any Age.

 

Instead, it somehow seems a good idea to propose Throwing caution to the wind and b u g g e r the diet – How about you.???? Well, I did try to help, but no minds are ever changed on TVF. Hope he's got good insurance, as recommended in this thread anyway. 

 

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, BigStar said:

and now BPH. Me, I'd take that as a sign to start working to forestall worse problems.

Hard to see what problems could be worse than peeing blood if I do enough exercise (or anything else) to break a sweat. I recon between 6 months and another 2 years at the most, no matter what I do, and I'm OK with that.

[1FinickyOne]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Which makes Pneumonia odd ......... my pal had Pneumonia age 58

I had pneumonia when I was 21, very fit and healthy... went away in a few days, no big deal... it was odd in that one minute I couldn't pick up a glass of water and then 20 minutes I felt wonderful... had a really high fever too... no after effects... I'm 110 yrs old now and feel just like I did when I was 70... 

 

ok, maybe better said, i am 70 and feel like I am 110 yrs old... 

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Sorry, you never mentioned the Doc prescribing any medication, just that he was happy. 

Well here's a story of getting older and paying for years into a Thai private health insurance.

My Doc is happy because what he has done is taken care of me for years ever since I was Hospitalized for 8 days with Asthma which was paid for by the private health insurance, a whopping amount in a nice aircon 6 bed room in a govt hospital.

The Thai private insurance company were billed and paid the 12,000 baht.

The following year renewal was refused and they dumped me.

Goodluck to everyone affording private health insurance once you start claiming when your classed as old. ???? 

 

[BritManToo]

43 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

The Thai private insurance company were billed and paid the 12,000 baht.

The following year renewal was refused and they dumped me.

Surprised as 12k isn't that much money.

[starky]

15 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

good point, generally speaking - - 

 

The health nuts are the ones with tight, serious, stressed out [angry looking?] faces... more of them look a bit sickly [in spite of conditioning], and tend to be of ill humor and not relaxed... even when they are not straining from exercise that leaves them breathless and sweaty... 

 

Fattys tend to be a bit more jolly and relaxed... 

 

neither group makes it out alive though the health nuts are often more deluded about life span and quality of life... as well as what might make them attractive... 

Eggs Zachary. 

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Surprised as 12k isn't that much money.

Exactly just making a claim and age is enough for a health insurance companies to decide to dump you.

[Ron jeremy]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I was running in the mountains 3 days a week, and cycling 20km the other days.

At age 62/63 BPH and probably cancer got me, so I can't do any of those now.

 

I wish I hadn't wasted my time with the exercise, and should have drunk, smoked and taken more drugs.

Not to sound like a smartass, and with all respect, could the pollution of Chang mai have something to do with it? I left shortly after health problems. Writing was on the wall.