Vaccination (To be or not to be)

[Henryford]

3 hours ago, deadbeat said:

Just get some ivermectin and you'll be fine.

 

Where can we buy it from in Thailand?

[Henryford]

51 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

The Chinese vaccines are WHO approved.

 

The AZ vaccine appears to be equally as effective/ineffective as the mRNA vaccines.

 

Misinformation at its worst. What is more, what goes for one vaccine seems to go for all in terms of mutations, with some graded differences.

 

The same WHO that is controlled and funded by China?

[DefaultName]

I'm firmly in the "get vaccinated" camp.

 

In a non-medical vein, I think that it is likely that, at some point, you'll need a vaccine passport to get into a lot of places.  Though I know a couple of anti-vaxxers who are pinning their hopes on black-market copies.  ???? 

[mommysboy]

On 6/26/2021 at 6:42 PM, Jingthing said:

Much much greater risk for a person over 60 to die or suffer long term disease from Covid-19 than from any vaccine. Take whatever brand you can get ASAP. You may be able to boost with something else later.

 

Basically, I agree, but I would say that statistics tend to assume that it's 100% sure that someone will become infected and so are not accurate.

 

Also, a fit and healthy person - though thin on the ground past the age of 21- is very unlikely to suffer severe illness.

 

Personally, I go with your suggestion though- take what WHO approved vaccine you can get, and sooner rather than later. 

[sawadee1947]

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

Can you elaborate on this? At what age in your opinion should one consider not taking the vaccine?

That's an open question nobody can answer at present. 

Children from 12y up are recommended to have their vaccination. Time and research will tell how to handle this pandemic in future. 

Will we have to have a jab when just born? Or will be some medication next year? 

What we know is that the virus is spreading in different variants and that a jab can safe your life. ????

[HarrySeaman]

28 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

We don't know what happens to people who use the gene therapy vaccines in 5 years or even 12 months! That's the issue given these are experimental technology. 

 

All viral infections cause DNA mutations.  Gene therapy, i.e. mRNA, vaccines, work exactly the same way as virus infections - they invade your bodies cells and cause a mutation of the DNA so that it produces copies of itself.  With a virus the huge number of viruses produced eventually kills the cell.  Occasionally a cell will resist the virus taking over the cell and simply incorporate the virus's DNA into itself.  Traces of these previous virus infections can be found all over our DNA.  Sometimes they are great to have because they impart a partial or even total immunity to the original disease, sometimes not.

 

The mRNA vaccines cause the cells to produce copies of the surface spikes found on the virus but not the virus itself.  It is the surface spikes that attach the virus to your cells and it is these surface spikes that the immune system learns to recognize and then it produces an antibody that latches onto these surface spikes and blocks them from attaching to your cells.  The blocked viruses are then eaten by one of your white blood cells, thus eliminating the infections.

 

Will the mRNA be incorporated permanently into your bodies cells?  Perhaps is the only answer.  Will doing this cause future problems?  Unlikely but that isn't beyond possibility.

 

Are mRNA vaccines going to be 100% safe?  No, absolutely not, but are they safer than not getting vaccinated and catching one of the various strains of COVID-19 out there now?  Yes.  At almost 79 years old I'll take that small risk rather than take the chance of dying from COVID-19. 

 

Would I take an mRNA vaccine if I was 60 years old - YES!

[4MyEgo]

5 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

'I am waiting for Moderna to arrive in October, might be a little late, however I let the AZ pass me by'

 

Given what you write, why on earth did you forego the AZ?

 

What is so better about the Moderna that it is worth risking infection in what now looks like the teeth of an imminent epidemic in Thailand?

 

Perhaps you've already realized your error.

 

The decision I made at the time was the right decision for me, and what happens after that happens, right or wrong.

 

The reason I gave up the AZ is that I wasn't comfortable with what was being reported about it, if you recall, the blood clotting issues, thrombosis etc and it's efficacy albeit it was within the parameters, I wanted something more, so opted to go for the Moderna.

 

Naturally my choice, risks known, and no, I have not realised any error, I did get two vaccinations in May, the Influenza and the Pneumonia booster, so one would hope one has some kind of cover, although totally different viruses, and the fact that we don't really see anyone and live in the sticks so we also assume that is low risk for contracting the virus.

 

Time will tell, that said, I believe this new variant will peak during July and drop off late August, but like I said, time will tell.

[Petethefeet]

Just do it. I am in the UK waiting to return to Thailand via Phuket sandbox. I am 72. I had the Pfizer vaccine in January and April this year. No side effects.

[rabas]

2 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

The gene therapy vaccines are new medical technology being issued under emergency use authorization. T

No COVID vaccine uses gene therapy or affects your genes in any way. You are spreading classic conspiratorial misinformation.

 

2 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

How do you make the proper risk/reward calculation with this very aggregate and corse data? I have no idea! Good luck. 

The first thing to note is that the majority of pneumonia deaths involve Covid.  Pneumonia is not an infectious disease, it is a medical condition. The only other infectious disease reported was influenza. Final score:

 

Covid   592682       winner

Influenza 9169

 

Not hard to see the meaning.

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Regarding the illness itself- in truth a truly fit and healthy person has a very small risk of dying of covid19 infection,

 

Thats true... at the moment. However one of the significant reasons for the vaccination efforts goes undiscussed and becomes overlooked (discussed below the next quote).

 

16 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

here is also a societal benefit because the risk of Covid spread and mortality to the community is reduced the more people who are vaccinated.

 

An additional factor of the ‘societal benefit’ as you describe it slowing down the evolution of virus.

As SARS-CoV-2 spreads there is a greater risk of antigenic drift, these mutations mostly cause the virus to evolve into something less harmful. However, we have already witnessed SARS-CoV-2 drifting into variants of Interest and Variants of Concern (see below). 

 

The greater the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 through a society the higher the probability that the virus will mutate into a ‘variant of high consequence’ - A variant of high consequence may be able to fully evade vaccines and pre-exiting anti-bodies, a variant of high consequence may impact those beyond the high risk groups (comorbidity, pre-existing conditions and age)..

 

i.e. IF uncontrolled spread through a young and healthy community is permitted, antigenic drift could result  in variants which impact the young and healthy (those who may currently be suggesting SARS-CoV-2 presents minimal risk).

 

Thus: Vaccines slow down the transmission and limit the speed of evolution of the virus such that new variants are easier to identify and easier (less difficult) for virologists to respond to within a critical timeframe - i.e. Virologists can track the antigenic drift and modify existing vaccines to counter and continue to limit the transmission of SARS-CoV-2.

 

The battle is to ’stop what SARS-CoV-2 could become.

 

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant-info.html#Concern

 

- Variants of Interest [B.1.525 (Eta - UK/Nigeria), B.1.526 (Iota - New York), B.1526.1 (New York), B.1.617.1 (Kappa - India), B.1.617.3 (India), P.2 (Zeta - Brazil).

 

These variants have reduced neutralisation by antibodies generated against previous infection or vaccination, reduced efficacy of treatments, potential diagnostic impact, or predicted increase in transmissibility or disease severity.

 

 

- Variants of Concern [ B.1.1.7 (Alpha - UK), P.1.351 (Beta - South Africa), B.1.427 (Epsilon - California), B.1.429 (Epsilon - California), B.1.617.2 (Delta - India), P.1 (Gamma - Japan / Brazil)

 

In addition to the possible attributes of a variant of interest

- Evidence of impact on diagnostics, treatments, or vaccines

- Widespread interference with diagnostic test targets

- Evidence of substantially decreased susceptibility to one or more class of therapies

- Evidence of significant decreased neutralisation by antibodies generated during previous infection or vaccination

- Evidence of reduced vaccine-induced protection from severe disease

- Evidence of increased transmissibility

- Evidence of increased disease severity

 

 

- Variants of High Consequence [None yet classified / identified]

 

In addition to the possible attributes of a variant of concern

- Impact on Medical Countermeasures (MCM)

- Demonstrated failure of diagnostics

- Evidence to suggest a significantly reduction in vaccine effectiveness, a disproportionately high number of vaccine breakthrough cases, or very low vaccine-induced protection against severe disease

- Significantly reduced susceptibility to multiple Emergency Use Authorisation (EUA) or approved therapeutics

- More severe clinical disease and increased hospitalisations

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

23 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Also, a fit and healthy person - though thin on the ground past the age of 21- is very unlikely to suffer severe illness.

 

We have to start considering / thinking about the vaccine from a greater perspective rather than on an individual level. 

 

A perfectly healthy young individual is unlikely to take any great benefit from a vaccine on an individual level (at the moment). However, IF the virus is permitted to spread and evolve within young and healthy asymptomatic communities the potential is increased for the virus to evolve into variants which can impact the young and heathy.

 

 

[Sametboy2019]

2 hours ago, Ventenio said:

TWO fully Vaccinated people caught the Delta variant....

 

OMG............i hope this motivates more people to search for some special vax that protects us from everything.   Now I'm thinking one more year.........crazy.  

the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching Covid it just reduces the chance of a serious symptoms

[jomtienisgood]

1 hour ago, BobinBKK said:

I  want nothing to do with ANYTHING made in China. Look where that got us all now!

Are you aware of the fact that the ladies / boys you hang out with most likely have Cn roots / origins ??

[EricTh]

@DUNROAMIN

 

If you never ever want to travel outside Thailand during the next 3 years, there is no need to get vaccinated.

 

If you want to travel outside, a vaccine passport is a necessity now as more and more countries implement it. It will save you quarantine days or even entry to other countries.

 

There are 3 types of vaccine technology mRNA, adenovirus and inactivated virus. Google for it to find the safest, don't listen to some propaganda.

Edited June 28, 2021 by EricTh

[silver sea]

OP may find these two articles of interest, which are about Cath Green and Sarah Gilbert who lead the teams that created Astra Zeneca at Oxford University. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9704227/SARAH-GILBERT-CATH-GREEN-women-created-Oxford-vaccine.html
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9728519/Why-dont-believe-Covid-variant-able-defeat-jab-completely.html

 

I live in Thailand and was booked at the local hospital for Astra Zeneca on July 7th. Sadly, it looks like this will not happen because the vaccine is currently in short supply here.

[BobinBKK]

22 minutes ago, jomtienisgood said:

Are you aware of the fact that the ladies / boys you hang out with most likely have Cn roots / origins ??

And every single one of them have absolutely nothing nice to say about "people China". 

[earlinclaifornia]

All my friends and family have had their shots. My Thai GF thinks I will die as I am treating heart fibrillation.  Guess who's advice I have decided on 

[Brock]

I and my wife have had the first dose of Astrazeneca. Wife had no side effects (apart from a sore arm) and I came down with a head cold. Next shot is in 30 days. Take the shot, and get protected, its a better option than the bug.

P.S. no second head as yet, tho am having trouble with 5G reception.
P.P.S  I am 60 ++++

[Tony125]

3 hours ago, HarrySeaman said:

I'm old enough to remember walking down the main street of my small mid-western US home town and seeing a long strip of tape stuck to the sidewalk with local volunteers placing dimes on the tape, dimes donated by the residents of my home town.  These dimes were to pay for the care of polio victims and for research for cures and preventive vaccines such as that done by Salk and other researchers.  If you don't know about polio then look it up - it is a horrible disease.

 

There can be side effects from any vaccine, including those for polio, smallpox, influenza, or COVID-19.  Salk's vaccine was a killed virus vaccine but later ones used a weakened but still alive virus.  The later weakened virus vaccines carried a bit more risk, including causing polio for those with a weakened immune system, but overall they were far more efficient at preventing polio in those who were vaccinated.  Give the same odds for taking the polio, smallpox, or COVID-19 vaccines vs not taking the vaccines I could walk out of any casino a billionaire no matter what game I played.

 

As far as I'm concerned those who refuse vaccines for dangerous diseases such as polio, smallpox, COVID-19, or vaccines for their children such as MMR, are idiots because they haven't seen the effects of a terrible disease like polio and have become believers in idiotic conspiracy theories.  They believe in these idiotic conspiracy theories because they wasted the chance to learn science in school and are now incapable of understanding it.  Frankly if they catch the disease those idiots should have to pay for all their medical costs, not the insurance agencies or the government, and they should be arrested and jailed for causing great bodily harm if they pass the disease along to someone else.

 

The COVID-19 vaccines are of two types.  Both types activate the bodies immune systems ability to recognize unique spikes on the surface of the virus, spikes that allow the virus to attach to and penetrate into your bodies cells where they can mutate your very own DNA, causing it that cell to produce thousands or millions of copies of themselves before killing the cell.

 

One is the killed/inactivated virus type.  Examples are Sinovac, and Sinopharm from China.  These are very much like the annual influenza vaccines and just like all vaccines carry a small risk.

 

The second type are the mRNA vaccines such as Moderna and Pfizer vaccines.  This type of vaccine is a synthetic preparation that causes you own cells to produce the same spikes as those on the virus itself, thus they activate the bodies immune system response in the same way as the killed/inactivated virus does.

 

I'll repeat just in case you missed it.

 

All vaccines carry a small risk of causing negative health side effects.  The decision to take one, or not take one, should depend on scientific data, not Luddite conspiracy theories.  The scientific evidence is clear at this point - the risk of death from a COVID-19 vaccine is far far less than the risk from catching COVID-19.  Not taking a COVID-19 vaccine should make you a candidate for one of the Darwin Awards.

 

Which one should you take?  The first one you can get! 

 

Six months or a year after you are FULLY vaccinated you can decide on whether or not to take a different vaccine to boost your immune system response to other mutations of COVID-19.

 

Not 2 types but 3  Check chart below

 

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

We have to start considering / thinking about the vaccine from a greater perspective rather than on an individual level. 

 

A perfectly healthy young individual is unlikely to take any great benefit from a vaccine on an individual level (at the moment). However, IF the virus is permitted to spread and evolve within young and healthy asymptomatic communities the potential is increased for the virus to evolve into variants which can impact the young and heathy.

 

 

 

Mine is not an argument to avoid vaccination, but rather to get things in perspective.

 

As for me, I have visited the Intervac site many times but it does not appear to be accepting registration, and in any case I don't live in Bangkok.  I'm not aware of any alternative.

 

I'll take AZ, Sinovac or Sinopharm, or would even go private for the mRNA vaccine (though I don't want it).  

[sirineou]

6 hours ago, Hepbub said:

They only report people dying after having the vaccine,

I no expert in this things but I think it would be counterproductive to be vaccinating people after they die. 

[friendofthai]

If you see Mr Darwin soon, give him my regards.

[khunPer]

On 6/26/2021 at 1:12 PM, DUNROAMIN said:

What are your thoughts on this matter. Cheers

Don't read too much, so much else but vaccine is more fatal, including traffic and Covid-19.

 

The most fatal vaccine so far, based on official continental European reports, is AstraZeneca (AZ), but mainly for younger women. That's why AZ vaccine in many countries are recommended for people older than 60 years.

 

Based on number of deaths vs. total number of people vaccinated the death rate was 5 per million, when they changed to use it for mainly elder people, and three European countries stopped using both AZ, and the other vector-based vaccines, i.e. Johnson & Johnson's Jansen-vaccine and Russian Sputnik V(ector), which was however not used in Europe. However, the benefits from the vaccine were larger than this risks, valued against number of Covid-19 deaths counted in hundreds per million.

 

Number of deaths in Thailand from Covid-19 at the moment is today 28 per million, so vaccine is more safe than the risk of getting Coronavirus infection and die from it...????

[RocketDog]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

 

 

Would it not be better if you did so?

 

 

Of course it would be better to educate yourself to make important decisions.

 

But education should come from experts in the subject. My argument is against both ignorance and opinions.

 

If there are any certified virologists or epidemiologists on TVF they should make themselves known.

 

Otherwise all the OP will get is lay opinions, that is: apples or oranges.

 

That's a major flaw with social media. Everybody has an opinion, qualified or not.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

being vaxed does apparently provide significant protection against all variants. vax is not an immortality drug, it does however reduce the odds of dying from covid to zero or practically zero for everyone.....

[jomtienisgood]

2 hours ago, BobinBKK said:

And every single one of them have absolutely nothing nice to say about "people China". 

You probably have a very limited amount of people you know....

[connda]

Every one of the vaccines are authorized by emergency use only and none have undergone long-term human trails.  The US, UK, and EU have databases of vaccine adverse reactions. Those databases are VAERS, Yellow Card, and EudraVigilance respectively.  These public facing interfaces for these databases are obtuse and difficult to obtain generalized data reports from. 

The new mantra of our governments and media is "the benefits outweighs the risks."  That!  That is something only you can determine for yourself.  No one else can make that decision for you.  I'm pretty sure you'll be requested to sign a consent form to take the vaccine.  Your signature means that you have been informed and understand all the risks and agree to accept those risks. It's called "informed consent"

Myself?  I would not consider taking this vaccine until there are at least 5 years of long-term human-trial data published and peer reviewed in medical journals. As well, it would need to be approved by global FDA organizations world-wide and fully licensed.  Of course, I could be forced to take it as a condition of my visa extension, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

In my own opinion the risks of the vaccine outweighs its benefit.
That's my own decision.  I don't speak for anyone else nor do I care what other people do. 

[Kanada]

5 hours ago, HarrySeaman said:

I'm old enough to remember walking down the main street of my small mid-western US home town and seeing a long strip of tape stuck to the sidewalk with local volunteers placing dimes on the tape, dimes donated by the residents of my home town.  These dimes were to pay for the care of polio victims and for research for cures and preventive vaccines such as that done by Salk and other researchers.  If you don't know about polio then look it up - it is a horrible disease.

 

There can be side effects from any vaccine, including those for polio, smallpox, influenza, or COVID-19.  Salk's vaccine was a killed virus vaccine but later ones used a weakened but still alive virus.  The later weakened virus vaccines carried a bit more risk, including causing polio for those with a weakened immune system, but overall they were far more efficient at preventing polio in those who were vaccinated.  Give the same odds for taking the polio, smallpox, or COVID-19 vaccines vs not taking the vaccines I could walk out of any casino a billionaire no matter what game I played.

 

As far as I'm concerned those who refuse vaccines for dangerous diseases such as polio, smallpox, COVID-19, or vaccines for their children such as MMR, are idiots because they haven't seen the effects of a terrible disease like polio and have become believers in idiotic conspiracy theories.  They believe in these idiotic conspiracy theories because they wasted the chance to learn science in school and are now incapable of understanding it.  Frankly if they catch the disease those idiots should have to pay for all their medical costs, not the insurance agencies or the government, and they should be arrested and jailed for causing great bodily harm if they pass the disease along to someone else.

 

The COVID-19 vaccines are of two types.  Both types activate the bodies immune systems ability to recognize unique spikes on the surface of the virus, spikes that allow the virus to attach to and penetrate into your bodies cells where they can mutate your very own DNA, causing it that cell to produce thousands or millions of copies of themselves before killing the cell.

 

One is the killed/inactivated virus type.  Examples are Sinovac, and Sinopharm from China.  These are very much like the annual influenza vaccines and just like all vaccines carry a small risk.

 

The second type are the mRNA vaccines such as Moderna and Pfizer vaccines.  This type of vaccine is a synthetic preparation that causes you own cells to produce the same spikes as those on the virus itself, thus they activate the bodies immune system response in the same way as the killed/inactivated virus does.

 

I'll repeat just in case you missed it.

 

All vaccines carry a small risk of causing negative health side effects.  The decision to take one, or not take one, should depend on scientific data, not Luddite conspiracy theories.  The scientific evidence is clear at this point - the risk of death from a COVID-19 vaccine is far far less than the risk from catching COVID-19.  Not taking a COVID-19 vaccine should make you a candidate for one of the Darwin Awards.

 

Which one should you take?  The first one you can get! 

 

Six months or a year after you are FULLY vaccinated you can decide on whether or not to take a different vaccine to boost your immune system response to other mutations of COVID-19.

 

Well spoken and 100% accurate from start to finish in my opinion.

After a conversation with a friend whose research goes deeper than 99.99% of most I think it’s time to say....this virus is a thinking virus and is far ahead of science at this stage!

it will not disappear anytime soon and maybe never so if you aren’t getting vaccinated you are a part of a very large problem. It’s a pretty dangerous bug with the ability to think and reason.

Any vaccine will do for now....there will be booster shots necessary for any and all brands available at this very early stage!

This is not reaching the end ...it’s just beginning.

[digger70]

Vaccination (To be or not to be) 

 

Why worry  go for it .

I am 75 in 2 months I had the AZ Vaccine on the 8th of this month.  

Have got a Few Health problems ,HBP ,Osteoarthritis and a few small things .

I took the punt ,No problems No side effects .

They say No vaccine if HBP is 150 + Mine was 178  No problem .

I told them that that was from Driving, I winds me up something terrible . 

[Thomas J]

7 hours ago, jomtienisgood said:

have ordered a bottle of Ivermectin 6 mg tablets through Lazada.  They are formulated for the treating of parasites in sheep, dogs, etc

I am not sure about that but if you take them and start scooting your butt on the floor or feel compelled to raise your head and go baa, you are having a side effect and you should discontinue immediately.