Thai government still betting big on Sinovac as public faith erodes

[Denim]

So how many Sinovac vaccines do they have to buy to get the free submarine ?

[rabas]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

Both Pfizer and Zuellig Pharma (SE Asia agent for Moderna) are long-time players in Thailand with substantial existing business in Thailand aside from vaccines. They are not babes-in-the-woods as regards US FCPA (Foreign Corrupt Practices Act).

That still does not allow them to do business in violation of US FCPA, does it?

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by rabas

[mommysboy]

The problem with Sinovac is that there is an absence of data one way or another.

 

Take this latest storm in a teacup: from the Thai data released you literally can deduce nothing good or bad.

 

It really just reveals what people basically want to believe, which may be right or wrong in actuality.

 

For what it's worth, I believe the Sinovac vaccine will likely be like it's cousin the flu vaccine, ie, 50% effective against symptomatic infection, and 80 against ICU admission.

 

If deployed among under 60's, who frankly only require minimal protection, it will be a very useful addition.

 

The only thing that concerns me is that we can't judge how safe it is, although it seems fine.

Edited July 12, 2021 by mommysboy

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

The problem with Sinovac is that there is an absence of data one way or another.

 

Take this latest storm in a teacup: from the Thai data released you literally can deduce nothing good or bad.

 

It really just reveals what people basically want to believe, which may be right or wrong in actuality.

We do know that in the past, Sinovac has performed considerably better in reducing hospitalizations and deaths than it has done in stopping infections. 

[sherwood]

I do live in the past. Not a Vax to be seen around here anyway.

Clowns

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

We do know that in the past, Sinovac has performed considerably better in reducing hospitalizations and deaths than it has done in stopping infections. 

I think preventing hospitalizations should be considered the acid test.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I think preventing hospitalizations should be considered the acid test.

Well, for individuals yes. But on a public health basis, if you want to slow transmission of the disease, then the level of effectiveness is crucial.

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Well, for individuals yes. But on a public health basis, if you want to slow transmission of the disease, then the level of effectiveness is crucial.

It's not really a feasible or pragmatic goal at the moment is it?- certainly not worldwide, and not even in Israel where most people were vaccinated with a very effective vaccine.  Better to look at it from an individual basis at present.

[wensiensheng]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

I suspect they are using the Chinese vaccines because its all they can get.

I agree. And now they are stuck with the plan of using this vaccine.

 

 In my view since they can’t turn off the tap that they already turned on, they need to adjust the strategy. Medical experts need to advise on that. But what I have seen is medical experts saying that a booster shot helps. If so, that should be factored into the plan.

 

yes it will delay the overall vaccination process, but that can’t be helped. There is no point blindly rushing on, ignoring the results of what is being done.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

couldnt care less what politicians say about any medical issues

like asking your barber for investment tips......

incredible how Macron anti British nonsense stopped almost all of France taking AZ !

how st****d are these voters ?

read reliable expert source ( FDA / UK) summary test reports & decide

so if no western institute data for non- western covid vax dont take them

similarly do not fly airlines banned by US FAA.... or those that crash regionally .....and so on

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

That still does not allow them to do business in violation of US FCPA, does it?

 

It gives them leverage on how they are willing to structure deal that is NOT in violation of FCPA.

[lolalol]

3 hours ago, rabas said:

As mentioned in a recent Bangkok Post article, maybe they don't want American vaccines because US corporations must follow US international anti-corruption laws.

I think that is really the case

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

I suspect they are using the Chinese vaccines because its all they can get.

I suspect you are right, the much heralded "donated Pfizer vaccines" are probably already spoken for, all sorts of people will need booster jabs before it gets anywhere near medical staff or anyone else, we hear little about domestic AZ production, and anything else probably requires cash up front!

 

Amassing the cash prior to making a purchase is probably too much of a temptation to assorted skim merchants, as those who have payed up front for Moderna may sadly discover!

[ourmanflint]

2 hours ago, Thomas J said:

There has to be a reason for the governments undying loyalty to Sinovac despite all the pushback from the medical community and citizens.  If not, why would the government not do the easy thing and procure the vaccines that the public and the doctors are wanting. 

Isn't Sinovac 20% owned by Charoen Pokphand? There's your answer

[crackdown15]

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/China-s-Sinovac-attracts-515m-to-help-double-COVID-vaccine-output

[cyril sneer]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

The problem with Sinovac is that there is an absence of data one way or another.

and the problem with Thailand is they will keep ordering it even if there is evidence to prove it's useless or dangerous 

[DLock]

What happened to...

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/05/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-will-be-thailands-principal-shot-health-minister.html

 

...or have the government royally screwed Thailand's AZ rollout.

[TheFishman1]

It all smells just too fishy TIT

[ba ba]

the steam off boiling water with kill this virus in 5 min we don't need bill gates needle

[Thomas J]

20 minutes ago, ourmanflint said:

Isn't Sinovac 20% owned by Charoen Pokphand? There's your answer

The answer seems to be as clear as mud.  Apparently CP owns shares in a Hong Kong based company Sino Biopharmaceutical and that Sino Biopharmaceutical holds a 15% right to Sinovac company. Sinovac Life Sciences.  Now CP said that it was a minority shareholder but did not disclose its ownership percentage of Sino Biopharmaceutical.  
If CP owned 100% of Sino Biopharmaceutical it would in turn own 15% of Sinovac.  But I can not establish what percentage of ownership CP actually has. 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

Amassing the cash prior to making a purchase is probably too much of a temptation to assorted skim merchants

That scene from the movie Casino, where in the count room the money kept flying into pockets, and the stacks that went out kept getting smaller and smaller.

[huangnon]

The current news hysteria and case-chasing media stats indicate that the Govt wants to panic people into taking this Sinovac stuff.

The shelf-life may also be nearing expiry, hence the panic.

A few of my Thai staff have had it thus far, without any immediate negative effects. Unlike the AZ first shot which sickened 2 of my technicians quite badly for a few days.. ????

[ourmanflint]

11 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

The answer seems to be as clear as mud.  Apparently CP owns shares in a Hong Kong based company Sino Biopharmaceutical and that Sino Biopharmaceutical holds a 15% right to Sinovac company. Sinovac Life Sciences.  Now CP said that it was a minority shareholder but did not disclose its ownership percentage of Sino Biopharmaceutical.  
If CP owned 100% of Sino Biopharmaceutical it would in turn own 15% of Sinovac.  But I can not establish what percentage of ownership CP actually has. 

Sorry it was 15%, you are correct. According to wikipedia Sino Biopharmaceutical is a subsidiary of CP Group, so presumable 100% owned by CP under the CP Pharmaceutical Group banner

Edited July 12, 2021 by ourmanflint

[jerrymahoney]

According to https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/7/  Sinovac has been approved in 37 countries. They can't all be influenced by CP.

Edited July 12, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[ourmanflint]

13 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

According to https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/7/ Sinovac has been in 37 countries. They can't all be influenced by CP.

True. Half of those countries ordered the vaccine before CP invested. 

[DLock]

28 minutes ago, ba ba said:

the steam off boiling water with kill this virus in 5 min we don't need bill gates needle

What "Bill Gates needle" do you refer to?

[Cake Monster]

The Thai Government have to still bet big with Sinovac.

They have no other choice due to the late ordering of alternative, and better, vaccines, and the slow performance of SB

[suestra29]

According to information freely available it is the same price as Sinopharm but slightly cheaper than Moderna. Both Sinovac and Sinopharm are way more expensive than the rest. In this case you don’t get what you pay for. 

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, wensiensheng said:

I agree. And now they are stuck with the plan of using this vaccine.

 

 In my view since they can’t turn off the tap that they already turned on, they need to adjust the strategy. Medical experts need to advise on that. But what I have seen is medical experts saying that a booster shot helps. If so, that should be factored into the plan.

 

yes it will delay the overall vaccination process, but that can’t be helped. There is no point blindly rushing on, ignoring the results of what is being done.

"There is no point blindly rushing on"

 

!00% agree, they are in a position now where its staring them in the face but not only them, the whole Thai population can see whats going on. 

 

Yet they are still making the same mistakes! Only recently they made an order for 20 million Pfizer, why so few? They should have ordered 100 million, yes we know the extra would not arrive till early next year but thats what planning is, get in now or be stuck as we are next year also. Have thery not learnt anything when they missed the opportunity to order Pfizer last year?

 

Even China itself ordered 100 million pfizer and is also now in late stage phase 3 trials developing its own mRNA vaccine candidate. 

 

In the interim they have no choice but to use boosters and sort out some of the mess in their chaotic vaccine roll out priority groups. 

 

Thailand has its own mRNA vaccine candidate under development however its in very early trials and there is absolutely no guarantee that it will be successful. As experienced recently with the German biotech CureVac  vaccine which was only 47% effective in a late-stage trial, missing the study’s main goal and throwing in doubt the potential delivery of hundreds of millions of doses to the European Union.

 

[PuaSai]

Seriously??............. There's definitely more to this..... ????