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[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I already said that is a silly argument. I'm entitled to palliative care just like anyone dying from complications of obesity.

I don’t support denying the right to medical care to anyone for whatever reason

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Did you miss the fact that approaching 5,000,000 people have been killed by COVID?

 

Did you miss that the quote I replied to did not mention covid?

Don't expect further bickering from me on that.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

The screws should be tightened against those who refuse the jab for silly reasons.

Agreed, so long as the same screw tightening is applied to those that voluntarily smoke tobacco or become obese.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t support denying the right to medical care to anyone for whatever reason

I'm very happy to hear that.

[cdemundo]

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

The vaccinated can still get the virus, spread it around, allow it to mutate, end up in the hospital, and potentially die. Stunning you are not aware of that.

 

BS. Hospitals are full in the US with unvaccinated nuts. Most now begging for the jab. And taking up valuable resources away from others who desperately need it. The screws should be tightened against those who refuse the jab for silly reasons.

This is my point in asking anti-vaxxers to say they will voluntarily decline treatment.

Their false confidence as they brag about their immune systems and how they are not in a high risk group, and how those that got vaccinated are living in fear.

But they really know that if they had signs of COVID they would be running (figuratively speaking) to the hospital as fast as their little legs would carry them.

The fact that they don't jump at the chance to testify in this way proves that they don't even have confidence in their own BS.

[Danderman123]

A sample Herman Cain award post

[ignis]

39 minutes ago, Chad3000 said:

I've had two AZ vax.

 

I'm done.

Sadly means nothing.......... yesterday a friend was taken to ICU with Covid, yes has been double vaccinated 

 

at end of Village, Father + Mother and teenage Daughter are in ICU, both parents have been double vaccinated 

[Danderman123]

53 minutes ago, ignis said:

Sadly means nothing.......... yesterday a friend was taken to ICU with Covid, yes has been double vaccinated 

 

at end of Village, Father + Mother and teenage Daughter are in ICU, both parents have been double vaccinated 

I suspect that the first dose was Sinovac.

[cdemundo]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Life has a 100% death rate, yet we all participate in it.

Feel free to check out the escape clause at your earliest convenience.

[Chad3000]

1 hour ago, ignis said:

Sadly means nothing.......... yesterday a friend was taken to ICU with Covid, yes has been double vaccinated 

 

at end of Village, Father + Mother and teenage Daughter are in ICU, both parents have been double vaccinated 

Just scaremongering

 

My 74yo inlaws had covid. Dad with high blood pressure.

 

Perfectly fine.

[jak2002003]

11 hours ago, thvima said:

 

Let's make the smokers pay and the obese pay also, because it's their own choice to be obese or smokers !

 

ridiculous !

 

by the way, my insurance will pay anything because later it will raise the premium and all of you will pay for it ❤️

 

 

Well....yes.. that is the right thing to do 

 

In the UK smokers are told to stop smoking if they want treatment for lung cancer etc 

 

Fat people are also told to loose weight before they can have some operations. 

 

This is common sense.

 

Good your insurance will pay....so if you get covid you will be paying.  No problem. 

[jak2002003]

11 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

It sounds like you are unaware that even vaccinated people can be infected by unvaccinated idiots. And those people have their choice taken away.

Sounds like you are unaware vaccinated people can infect vaccinated people too. 

 

Chances are lower and if you are vaccinated the chances of being very ill and needing to go to hospital are virtually zero. 

 

You probably have more chance or getting hit by a car.....so why not tell everyone who drives they are idiots as they might run someone over?

 

 

[cdemundo]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

A sample Herman Cain award post

It is interesting how a lot of the "ship talkers" at the HCA awards say the same things as some folks on here do.

Honestly, I am guilty of enjoying reading the terrible descent of arrogant "ship talkers" going to their eternal reward.

But more important for me was reading some of the day by day reports of the horrible course of their deaths.  I worked for years in a respiratory hospital where terminal patients were on ventilators and feeding tubes and of course died there. But they were not going through the agony that a lot of these COVID patients suffered.

It also clarified for me why people with multiple diagnoses got COVID as a cause of death, the course of a bad COVID illness cannot be mistaken for another illness.

 

Thailand is not having the number of infections that the US is having so there is currently a much lower chance of contracting COVID. 

But the HCA page also has numerous examples of people who saw the cases or had family members who died and they "saw the light" and posted photos of their vax cards.

One of the saddest ones (I am usually 100% unsympathetic) was a son whose father told him on his death bed "I'm sorry. I didn't know. I didn't understand". Very sad, poor guy, that poor guy chokes me up cuz he was lied to by "ship talkers" and it cost him his life.

Edited October 21, 2021 by cdemundo
clarified about photos of vax cards

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t support denying the right to medical care to anyone for whatever reason

 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm very happy to hear that.

I’m very pleased to hear you are.

 

Now perhaps you’ll accept its utter selfish lunacy of people being denied medical treatment because hospitals and ICU are unnecessarily full of people suffering COVID outcomes that they could almost entirely have avoided had they accepted vaccination.

 

It’s past time to mandate these vaccines.

 

Nobody should be denied medical treatment because of the selfish lunacy of others.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

56 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Sounds like you are unaware vaccinated people can infect vaccinated people too. 

 

Chances are lower and if you are vaccinated the chances of being very ill and needing to go to hospital are virtually zero. 

 

You probably have more chance or getting hit by a car.....so why not tell everyone who drives they are idiots as they might run someone over?

 

 

Contagious disease and car accidents are not comparable. Unless of course you have evidence of road accident victims infecting others with broken bones and other forms of bodily injury.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

A sample Herman Cain award post

I find the HCA troubling.

 

On the one hand letting people see the real outcomes of COVID is a god thing but on the other the HCA borders on mocking the afflicted.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I see absolutely nothing wrong with mocking COVID victims who themselves have used their influence and often their power to undermine the fight against this wretched disease, by all means give them what they deserve, they’ve earned it.

 

But I do not hold with mocking the very many people who they convinced with their lies and misinformation. Many of these people lack the intellect, education or have been directed away from science/medicine based advice, far too many others suffer emotional and mental health issues that have made them susceptible.

 

The last thing these people and the families they leave behind need is mocking.

 

Finally, I don’t think it helps pursued a single anti-vax adherent to take the vaccine.

 

If these people aren’t able to start asking questions when they hear the talking heads on TV ranting against vaccines have been vaccinated, ranting against mandates work in organizations that have for sometime mandated vaccination and rant against masks in front of a camera crew all wearing masks  - well no, mockery will not get to the parts logical arguments fail to reach.

 

It’s time to stop indulging these people and mandate vaccination.

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agreed, so long as the same screw tightening is applied to those that voluntarily smoke tobacco or become obese.

In many cases, insurance is denied or at least increased for smokers. Glad you are ok with this being applied to anti vaxxers. Makes sense.

 

2 hours ago, ignis said:

Sadly means nothing.......... yesterday a friend was taken to ICU with Covid, yes has been double vaccinated 

 

at end of Village, Father + Mother and teenage Daughter are in ICU, both parents have been double vaccinated 

As is widely known, many more die who have not been jabbed as opposed to jabbed. I'd also guess they got Sinovac, sadly. Not a great vaccine against the Delta variant.

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

Sounds like you are unaware vaccinated people can infect vaccinated people too. 

 

Chances are lower and if you are vaccinated the chances of being very ill and needing to go to hospital are virtually zero. 

 

You probably have more chance or getting hit by a car.....so why not tell everyone who drives they are idiots as they might run someone over?

 

 

Troll post of the day.

[ozimoron]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:21 AM, cdemundo said:

"but also much less dangerous in and of itself"

Is this true?

I have not encountered this statement anywhere.

Everything I have read says it is not clear if Delta is more or less dangerous than previous variants.

It is not true and it's another example of the countless lies peddled here by the anti vaxers. The delta variant is more dangerous and has up to 1,000 greater viral load.

[cdemundo]

Who will never vaccinate? This guy.

Here is a guy who tells it like it is on July 21, 2021. 

He is never getting vaccinated for any reason.

(I think he meant "nobody owns me").

He ain't afraid of COVID or Dyin'.

You eff with him you will find out.

 

He is dead.

 

Was he more confident or less confident than the average vax-hesitant type?

[ if you want to use the link you will need to replace <deleted> with the 

F word.]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/qcik7m/it_seems_as_though_he_<deleted>ed_around_and_found_out/

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by cdemundo

[placnx]

On 10/19/2021 at 5:51 AM, cdemundo said:

"but also much less dangerous in and of itself"

Is this true?

I have not encountered this statement anywhere.

Everything I have read says it is not clear if Delta is more or less dangerous than previous variants.

Just because it is so much more infectious than previous variants Delta is in effect more dangerous. Evidence from India shows than the real figures for Delta deaths are greater by a factor of up to 10, so Delta deaths there are in the millions. BBC has been reporting multiple deaths in single families.

[placnx]

On 10/19/2021 at 6:47 AM, Danderman123 said:

The Moderna vaccine has been shown to have an efficacy of approximately 94.1 per cent in protecting against COVID-19, starting 14 days after the first dose.

 

You seem to be poorly informed about vaccines. 

The problem is that "protecting against Covid" is a vague category. One official category is protecting against serious illness, which is I believe the 94% measurement which you cite. Protecting against infection is around 70%, which is still a very good number if a lot of people are vaccinated with this vaccine.

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, placnx said:

The problem is that "protecting against Covid" is a vague category. One official category is protecting against serious illness, which is I believe the 94% measurement which you cite. Protecting against infection is around 70%, which is still a very good number if a lot of people are vaccinated with this vaccine.

Based on evidence from clinical trials, in people aged 18 years and older, the Moderna vaccine was 94.1% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.

[placnx]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:45 AM, pgrahmm said:

 

This table is misinformation! "Prevent Infection" is a misnomer. Maybe they really meant mild illness. "Prevent Spread" and asymptomatic illness are suspected to be statistically close, especially in the case of Delta. Ther should be data for Moderna here. Have clinical trials for Sputnik V been reported? Where did 92% come from?   

[placnx]

On 10/19/2021 at 10:30 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Well, have you considered that the vaccines apparently require multiple doses, in some cases 3 and maybe more after to come.

The examples you give required one. Cost alone indicates that poor countries will simply be unable to afford to vaccinate their entire population multiple times- I believe some companies increased their prices recently.

IMO western taxpayers will not accept paying for everyone in poor countries, which is apparently what some organisations want.

 

BTW, in some countries, some children are apparently not vaccinated for polio because of religious beliefs.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2727330/

Religious opposition by Muslim fundamentalists is a major factor in the failure of immunization programs against polio in Nigeria (2), Pakistan (3) and Afghanistan

I just hope that we will get to easy to administer vaccines with technology to have a broader effect on Coronaviruses.

 

The vaccine companies stage pricing on the ability to pay, so that the poorest countries don't have to pay. Of course these countries may need financial and organizational help in developing the public health infrastructure needed to distribute and administer mRNA vaccines. 

 

It would be good if the OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries) promoted an education campaign to counter anti-vax rumors such as the one about vaccines containing pork product.

[placnx]

34 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Based on evidence from clinical trials, in people aged 18 years and older, the Moderna vaccine was 94.1% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.

The link which you cite has the following link for further information:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm695152e1.htm?s_cid=mm695152e1_w

In this link it reads: "...indicate that the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine efficacy after 2 doses was 94.1%.....in preventing symptomatic, laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection". The point is that this statistic refers to symptomatic infection, not all infection.

[placnx]

On 10/20/2021 at 8:30 AM, Jeffr2 said:

A vast majority of these fines had NOTHING to do with the quality. From that link.

 

Pricing violations were the most common reason for fines.

Not surprising considering the Byzantine pricing system in the US.

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, placnx said:

Not surprising considering the Byzantine pricing system in the US.

Health care in the US sucks if you don't have the right insurance. Which most don't. One reason I don't live there. Sadly.

[jak2002003]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

I’m very pleased to hear you are.

 

Now perhaps you’ll accept its utter selfish lunacy of people being denied medical treatment because hospitals and ICU are unnecessarily full of people suffering COVID outcomes that they could almost entirely have avoided had they accepted vaccination.

 

It’s past time to mandate these vaccines.

 

Nobody should be denied medical treatment because of the selfish lunacy of others.

 

Like the fat people, people who dont exercise, smokers, drinkers ...all this people self inflict their I'll esses upon themselves and then take up space in hospitals and use up resources that other people need 

 

 

[jak2002003]

10 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Troll post of the day.

Why? It's a fact. Vaccinated people can get the virus...they just are much less likely to get seriously ill.  They can also infect other people with the virus..

 

 

Are you saying this is not true?

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by jak2002003