Prominent Thai doctor says lockdown measures aren’t working, tighter ones won’t work either, ease them to save the economy and consider an export ban on Covid19 vaccines and greatly boost vaccination program

[RPCVguy]

13 hours ago, impulse said:

I put the Sino's under the category of "better than nothing".  If the mRNA's and AZ didn't exist, people would be jumping all over a vaccine that reduced their odds of dying by 50%.  The reality is that the mRNA's are a long way out in Thailand.  The most reasonable course of action would be to jab people with the Sino's they can buy today, then fortify it with mRNA or AZ as soon as it's available.

 

The biggest fear is that getting the Sino would preclude them from their preferred vaccine in the future.  Either because their name shows up as "fully vaccinated" or because some idiot in gub'ment decides not to order enough mRNA and AZ because they got the Sino's.  Both are easy for the gub'ment to neutralize by declaring the Sino's will be fortified as soon as they get the doses they ordered.  Of course, that means they have to order them.   Not discuss them, not plan them...  

 

Then instead of 20,000 cases and 200 deaths a day, they can cut it by 50% while waiting on the good stuff.  That's a lot of lives saved, even if it's not all of them.

 

This is the best comment I spotted , and it came early midst many comments. You've covered getting the jabs ASAP, using what has already been purchased, AND you've covered the concern of people like be as to keeping options open for what are demonstrating to be more effective vaccines. If this government policy stated its policy included regular people (not only those on the medical front-lines) being able to boost their initial vaccinations with what will be arriving in 2022, then it would simplify choices now for people who don't live in or near Bangkok.

It is a matter of getting people vaccinated ASAP. The behavior in some states of the USA certainly shows the high penalty in hospitalizations and deaths for places that simply choose to neither vaccinate nor control their social interactions. This article from July states Malaysia has already secured 45 million doses of the Pfizer mRNA vaccine.  Surely Thailand could do (have done) similarly. The best time to act was months ago, but the next best time is now.

Last comment on the issue - as affects expats: I'll note that yesterday I saw a commenter saying he was about to make a 3 hour drive to Bangkok, basically telling expats in distant provinces, those awaiting an email about their chance for some of the donated Pfizer vaccine, to just get in a car a get there. At 3 hours I would find a way, but its 2 hours for me to just get to Lampang. Bangkok is a lot farther, many more hours, and I no longer drive. Lots of us expats contribute all that we have to our family and rural communities... and immigration sure tracks that monthly cash flow. I would like to hope the authorities see and care about more of the country than the industrial provinces of the Bangkok area. This is an open question. The Pfizer vaccine only requires normal refrigeration after thawing from its initial super cold state - at which it is valid for up to 31 days. It can at least be shipped to each provincial capitol where vaccinations can be carried out for those with appointments.

[Scouse123]

6 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You have scientific evidence that Sinovac at bottom of list. Do share.

Meanwhile, link below from a study showed Pfizer 42% effective against Delta.

https://ussanews.com/News1/2021/08/12/covid-19-vaccines-effectiveness-against-delta-variant/

Well to start with, Sinovac only ever had 50% efficacy based on WHO results. So that was the lowest to start with.

 

Then there is this:-

 

https://news.yahoo.com/antibodies-sinovacs-covid-19-shot-142748493.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall

[internationalism]

20 minutes ago, hioctane said:

This was the most ridiculous idea ever.  Private hospitals were never realistically going to be able to import any vaccines. Vaccine manufacturers are currently only selling to governments. They don’t want to get into situation where they sell to the highest bidder. What vaccine is available on the open market? NONE!

they wanted to import, joined their action, made several attempts and each time they were torpedoed by the government.

Yes, they had chance to import, had allocated budget, distribution channels.

At the end they were allowed only for 4mln moderna.

Look at an example of sinopharm imported by chula universtity. That's private institution. They have imported already up to 10mln doses. They did it behind the government knowledge and involvement until order in the royal gazette.

The next morning anutin still could not say anything when asked during press conference.

This vax arrived within month of ordering and is coming in small 1mln batches every few weeks.

That exactly how it could be done in thailand, if private hospitals were allowed

 

[orchidfan]

13 hours ago, sungod said:

Exactly, lets get on with life and carry on taking precautions.

Just saw a live video from the Shinjuku nightlife area of Tokyo. 

Everyone wearing masks,  but everything open.....restaurants, bars, nightclubs, entertainment centers etc.

Literally hundreds of people on the streets, the girls in their fairy maids uniforms or school outfits soliciting customers. 

Knowing Shinjuku, it was probably 50% "full", but still bustling. People working and others out enjoying themselves. 

Japan's population about 126mill, and latest I read around 14000 new infections per day (new peak), 40+% of population vaccinated.

Yes, I know this discussion is about Thailand not Japan, but was an interesting insight into opening up and minimizing lockdowns.....at least for the time being there.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, ftpjtm said:

A good start would be signing the 20M dose Pfizer requisition the private hospitals have been begging them to sign for nearly a year. 

But not much to do with getting hold of vaccines immediately, which is what the doctor is calling for.

[Eric Loh]

15 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Well to start with, Sinovac only ever had 50% efficacy based on WHO results. So that was the lowest to start with.

 

Then there is this:-

 

https://news.yahoo.com/antibodies-sinovacs-covid-19-shot-142748493.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall

Scientists are still studying how well various vaccines effectiveness against the Delta variant. Lets not preempt the on-going studies to make claim about effectiveness ranking. All vaccines give protection from serious hospitalisation and deaths for non comprised infected people. 

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, bougnat said:

World health organization strongly advises against mixing vaccines! .....

The WHO has said governments choosing to mix vaccines based upon research is justifiable.
 

Canada, Germany and a number of nations have chosen to mix and match vaccines. 

[clivebaxter]

14 hours ago, steven100 said:

I wouldn't believe an ounce of words or information from any Thai about COVID19 .......

They all talk the same BS ,  they haven't got a clue.

Thais couldn't sell water in Ethiopia .....  

Surely you don't include your great leader in disbelieving any Thai? He said it will mostly be over in another 2 weeks at most ????

Edited August 13, 2021 by clivebaxter

[club]

28 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You have scientific evidence that Sinovac at bottom of list. Do share.

Meanwhile, link below from a study showed Pfizer 42% effective against Delta.

https://ussanews.com/News1/2021/08/12/covid-19-vaccines-effectiveness-against-delta-variant/

I saw that in another article, It actually changed my mind on what vaccine to get when I travel back to USA. I am getting Moderna. In that article I read it said Moderna was 70% after fist dose and close to 90 % on second against Delta .What is Pfizer after fist Dose and the second dose against Delta?

[Jeffr2]

The lockdown doesn't work because many are ignoring it. Just like they have in the past. 

 

But lockouts are only one part of the solution. Vaccines are #1. Masks help a bit also.

[davemos]

At last there is someone realising  that these measures are counter productive .Even with high vax rates  there are more cases (eg Gibralter).,prehaps the only solution is herd immunity? PS .I'm not a expert.

[Caldera]

That some restrictions are needed is pretty obvious, considering that Thailand's health system cannot cope with the current number of cases.

 

That being said, restrictions that are either unenforceable or just not being enforced properly are ineffective, so the "it's not working" part cannot be dismissed. Fewer restrictions that are properly enforced would be better.

 

They should also make a real effort to use rapid antigen test kits to make somewhat risky activities safer. That would allow more kinds of businesses to remain open. 

[Scouse123]

14 minutes ago, Caldera said:

That some restrictions are needed is pretty obvious, considering that Thailand's health system cannot cope with the current number of cases.

 

That being said, restrictions that are either unenforceable or just not being enforced properly are ineffective, so the "it's not working" part cannot be dismissed. Fewer restrictions that are properly enforced would be better.

 

They should also make a real effort to use rapid antigen test kits to make somewhat risky activities safer. That would allow more kinds of businesses to remain open. 

You mean like having sex whilst wearing your mask as proposed?

 

I am sure everyone will be taking this advice.

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, shdmn said:

Sadly, vaccines are not the answer.  Several countries have reached herd immunity and it hasn't stopped the virus from spreading and causing problems.  We just have to get used to living with it and stop all this economic hardship by opening everything up.

Vaccines are the only answer, true they don't stop infections but they do reduce symptoms, hospital treatments and deaths.

[Bobydog]

16 hours ago, EricTh said:

Vaccination rate is still slow in Thailand

No surprises there, and exporting AZ???? I have to wonder how much is finding its way into admin pockets..... instead of vaccinating the people in/of Thailand.  We know skimming oportunities are less but in all faith, how can you hold your head up and look your people in the eye.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, club said:

I saw that in another article, It actually changed my mind on what vaccine to get when I travel back to USA. I am getting Moderna. In that article I read it said Moderna was 70% after fist dose and close to 90 % on second against Delta .What is Pfizer after fist Dose and the second dose against Delta?

I've also read a couple of studies now that puts Moderna well above Pfizer for the delta variant in real world studies.

[DefaultName]

My take is that only vaccines will get us through this.  Every country that's coming out the other side has a high percentage of the population vaccinated.

 

The government needs to get out of the way of private hospitals buying vaccines - if they can find them now.

The government needs to stop re-inventing the wheel; if something - vaccines, drugs, etc. - has been tested and approved in the more advanced countries, accept that, don't waste time re-doing the research.

 

And for any God's sake, if you don't have the expertise to design a website that works - and first time at that - employ someone who does.  These continual fails and new sites look amateurish and do not inspire confidence.

Edited August 13, 2021 by DefaultName
Badly written.

[mikosan]

17 hours ago, internationalism said:

what allowing import by private hospitals, without the government interaction and without taxes?

From the very beginning of  year some 3 hospital networks wanted to buy some 20mln sinovac. They were blocked.

There were few other attempts for some other vax.

So now moderna import is curtailed to only 5mln, from which 1mln for the red cross/army

As I am sure you are aware, those in power do not make any money by allowing private hospitals to import vaccines independently of them.  That pretty much explains the restrictions and delays.  This government are responsible for an act of genocide against the poor in their population.

[peleid]

Thai people do not adhere to lockdowns, my Thai family are going here, there and everywhere and yes I have tried telling them but now I give up, also I am the only one wearing a mask????????

[Senechal]

2 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

Well to start with, Sinovac only ever had 50% efficacy based on WHO results. So that was the lowest to start with.

 

Then there is this:-

 

https://news.yahoo.com/antibodies-sinovacs-covid-19-shot-142748493.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall

And Pfizer has a paltry 42% efficacy against Delta.

 

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html

 

 

 

[Scouse123]

1 minute ago, Senechal said:

And Pfizer has a paltry 42% efficacy against Delta.

 

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html

 

 

 

Probably why i am a fan of AZ vaccine.

[Rampant Rabbit]

Havent  noticed any lockdown measures,  just driven to Bangkok this  morning from Prachuap and  now  back  in Prachuap,  no checks  nada  zilch, interprovincial travel has no restrictions at  all.

[Rampant Rabbit]

15 minutes ago, peleid said:

Thai people do not adhere to lockdowns, my Thai family are going here, there and everywhere and yes I have tried telling them but now I give up, also I am the only one wearing a mask????????

Remember ...Thai  know best.Its  what makes them so  lovely.

[club]

3 minutes ago, Senechal said:

And Pfizer has a paltry 42% efficacy against Delta.

 

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html

 

 

 

What good is a Pfizer booster do when its almost as weak as Sinovac?

[club]

3 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Probably why i am a fan of AZ vaccine.

Its why I am a fan of Moderna

[Rampant Rabbit]

6 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Probably why i am a fan of AZ vaccine.

Well  u cant make  head  nor  tail of it.August 2nd  read  this   https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-how-well-covid-19-vaccines-work-against-the-delta-variant#Vaccines-vs.-Delta-variant

Study 1 and real-life data

According to an analysis carried out by Public Health England, two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine appeared to be about 88 percent effective against symptomatic disease and 96 percent effective against hospitalization with the Delta variant.

The same study suggested that the vaccine was approximately 80 percent effective against preventing infection from the Delta variant. Scientists came to this conclusion after analyzing 14,019 people with an infection, 166 of whom were hospitalized, in England.

[vermin on arrival]

It will go down normally as the lockdown is eased since a wave always follows a viral curve and attempts to flatten the curve will just prolong that current stage of the epidemic. Now that we are at full community spread in the nation one cannot expect a lockdown to get cases down to zero. Protect the vulnerable and let the natural part of herd immunity amongst the ones less vulnerable to serious cases and death (especially those under 40 for whom the disease is less dangerous than the flu) help society as has always been the public health policy followed in times of epidemics in the modern era; this is the policy advocated by the tens of thousands of health care doctors and experts who signed the great barrington declaration. The disease doesn't just increase indefinitely. One can follow the waves of other countries to see how it works. In India the last wave was bad, but lasted only 3 months (from end of March through end of June).

[Bkk Brian]

17 minutes ago, Senechal said:

And Pfizer has a paltry 42% efficacy against Delta.

 

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html

 

 

 

Keep in mind that this study is currently an out liner although an Israel study showed similar. The effectiveness for hospitalization and death is still very high in all studies.

 

"There has been no data so far that has found either vaccine's protection against severe disease and death is significantly less against Delta, and the study notes that there doesn't appear to be much of a difference in complications stemming from breakthrough infections based on which vaccine someone got."

[samtam]

6 hours ago, drenddy said:

Off topic : just read Hong Kong's inbound requirements.Pure madness.

Which particular aspect of the requirements? I have Permanent Residency. Once I get my second jab I will only have to quarantine for 7 days, providing I pass the serology test upon arrival. (....Unless of course Thailand slips into a very high risk country, which is entirely possible at this rate.)

 

 

4 hours ago, Wake Up said:

street protests better than starving to death and losing everything. Not all Thai people are retired expats with pensions and old age. Open the country up and let the retired financially secure people stay home if they want. The rest of the people need to work and eat. 

 

I agree that the majority of Thais need to work to live and eat. Sadly in our condo, where we have recently implemented a mandatory weekly antigen test for all of our 30 staff, (security, cleaners and technicians), the 3 who have tested positive have left to quarantine....in their home provinces, because obviously quarantining "at home" for poor people in Bangkok or other big cities is not viable; doing so at their family's home is possibly more feasible. The hierarchical system on which this country ticks along, is beginning to crumble. Some days it seems like the desertification of the Winter Palace in 1917....well, as I imagine it felt, obviously.

[Moonlover]

3 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

7 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

How about quoting it properly instead of cherry picking the words.

 

'People’s homes have become the place where high infections occurred overall, so some lockdown measures should be relaxed immediately before the Thai economy became even worse'. 

Expand  

 

3 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

My question stands. 

And the answer to your somewhat moot question lies within the original article. I quote:

 

'the number of domestic infections and deaths from the Covid-19’s Delta mutant will continue to increase regardless of how intense the lockdown measures'.