People who retire in Thailand - Whats your plan?

[Will B Good]

65, wife is 38. If she wants to inherit she knows what she has to do.

[Tony125]

17 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

Can you give any details of this policy and where you are getting it? 

I worked for a Gov Agency and it was part of their health plan pkg of which there were many companies  and plans to chose from as an employee. Also life long life insurance that they pick up part of cost. I could cancell the part I pay and still would get (or rather my wife) $70,000 that they pay for me.   As I said in previous post you wife or a friend can do your retirement paperwork if you have a note from a Dr stating you are not able to travel and you give the person a note stating they have your permision.

[4MyEgo]

19 hours ago, Leveraged said:

1 ~ Medical insurance for people over 65 is almost impossible to get

If the cost of health insurance is going to be a financial burden to you as it increases every 5 years, if not annually, set aside 3,000,000 baht as funds for yourself for any health insurance requirements, if you can't do that or afford health insurance, you really shouldn't be here IMO, i.e. unless you are prepared to be treated in a government public hospital. 

 

19 hours ago, Leveraged said:

2 ~ So you've reached retirement age and you make the big move to Thailand. Got your house or condo or whatever and youre living the good life. Youre on a marriage visa and yearly extensions. Time goes on and all of a sudden you outlive your wife at 70 years old. What then? Move to a retirement visa with yearly extensions? What about the insurance requirement for OA visas? 

Get your marriage visa then annual extensions and worry about it when the time comes as I do believe there are agents who can for a price sort out any insurance requirements if need be for an annual extension, if required.

 

19 hours ago, Leveraged said:

3 ~ This is probably the most important one ive been considering: Everything is all good and time goes on. If youre lucky you live a good strong life and then unexpectedly have a massive heart attack or stroke and drop dead instantly at 80 years old. BUT what about if you aren't so lucky and develop Alzheimer's and need constant care, or severe Diabetes, or have a bad stroke and are crippled and cant talk etc? What then? You still gonna do the whole immigration hassle/run-around/drama/waiting in lines/sweating your balls off/goalpost shifting nonsense in that state?  

We are all ticking time bombs, I had my heart attack when I was in my late 40's back in the home country, i.e. I ended up here 7 years later, it was a 10 year plan, I retired at 55 and am now in my 60's, I could kick the bucket tomorrow, but do I worry, no, do I have everything in order in case I need care, yes it's called a wife 20 years my junior, private health cover, and life insurance, if the wife does go before me which I hope is not the case, I will assess the situation then, i.e. we can't plan for everything, so plan for what you can and either adapt to the change when it happens. Extensions aren't really an issue if your organised enough with your paperwork, and like I said, agents sort things out for a price and immigration officer welcome them because they get a slice of the pie.

 

19 hours ago, Leveraged said:

Any input would be helpful on the above concerns. I would like to hear how others are planning for their end-of-life stage in Thailand and what they plan to do so that they are not a burden on anyone. It would be appreciated to hear how people plan to overcome these hurdles. 

Not planning my end of life stage, if my wife does go before me, I have enough money in the bank to return home and get the pension in a few years and put my deposit down to a nursing home and they also get 85% of the pension to look after me, that would have to be the last hurdle, e.g. I couldn't look after myself, otherwise I would stay in Thailand and continue enjoying the life left in me.

 

We are born to die, it's inevitable, so why worry about it, grab life and enjoy as much of it as you can, I have lived more than most, had my more than fair share of travel, women, fast cars, bikes, etc and if I dropped tomorrow, well selavee, it's going to happen, the later the better because I still have a lot of gas in this tank.

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, Leveraged said:

Is the care-giver going to drag your crippled and mentally debilitated self to immigration? I got no issue with a care home or having people look after me if im out of it, but how to you do that while you're a goner? 

 

Ive never seen any type of these people in immigration in any of the hundred times ive been there. 

 

So how does it work in that case? 

Good question, it is bad enough being treated like a criminal with this ridiculous 90 day report, but for old sick people, the old sick people should be treated with some compassion. It is not just the soldiers, properly elected governments in Thailand are just as bad when it comes to treating these people.

[jeffbkk1]

I know exactly where you're coming from. My brother (Retirement Extension) had a stroke several years ago, and as I was working, my Thai partner (considerably younger than me) took him to Immigration at Chiang Wattana, in a taxi wheel chair and all, and it was a disaster. In fact, it made such a negative impression on her, that she cajoled me into going for my Permanent Residency so we can avoid all the hassle with Immigration should I fall seriously ill at some stage. If you are working, and have a work permit, I would suggest you go through the process now. I eventually ended-up taking my brother back to the U.S. and got him into a Medicaid funded nursing home, as he just became too much of a burden on the family to take care of him here locally. My partner has said no problem for me in the future, as we've been together for years, but my abstinent brother was just too much for her and her Mother to handle 24/7, and he'd already driven-off one caregiver that we'd employed. 

[NoshowJones]

19 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Thailand would be a far better place to get care as an elderly person than literally any country in the West. Much cheaper as well.

 

Only the visa paperwork would be an issue, but you can probably find someone to help you with it.

19 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Some people plan to go home at a certain age, so maybe plan for that, or see how it pans out and stay come what May, or plan an end date say 80-85 depending how healthy you are, or earlier or later depending if you get some serious illness you don't want to live with

What would happen to say an 80 odd year old retiree who needed serious health treatment in even a government hospital, gets his countrys OAP and does not have the savings to pay for it? Is he left to just lie in the hospital corridors or car park till he dies?

I sat it is the governments fault for allowing the insurance companies to rip people off and not come up with some fair government hospital scheme to help retirees pay into when they come to live in Thailand.

Edited August 26, 2021 by possum1931

[Skallywag]

19 hours ago, Leveraged said:

Time goes on and all of a sudden you outlive your wife at 70 years old. What then?

 

19 hours ago, Leveraged said:

BUT what about if you aren't so lucky and develop Alzheimer's and need constant care, or severe Diabetes, or have a bad stroke and are crippled and cant talk etc?

Marry a Thai woman who works for the government or a hospital or any Thai company and your health insurance is automatically covered. 

Problem solved

Peace

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Chris.B said:

Tremendous, they will even sell your home to pay for the care home costs.

 

They can't if your homes rented.

[ColeBOzbourne]

My dad got real serious once and asked me what he should do if I happened to die in one of those 'foreign countries you're always traveling to'. I told him don't do anything. Just leave me there. He smiled with a big sigh of relief and said, "Thank God. That's what I was hoping you'd say."

[LongTimeLurker]

19 hours ago, Leveraged said:

Is the care-giver going to drag your crippled and mentally debilitated self to immigration?

You won't need to rock up, just send a medical certificate along with the carer.

[Chris.B]

"They can't if your homes rented."

 

 

A sad life living in rented accomodation with 12 month leases where you can be thrown out of at any time. Or you think you will get Council/Housing Association property? Think again on that!

 

Then how about your Thai wife? Are you going to leave her in rented accomodation when you die? 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Chris.B

[LongTimeLurker]

18 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Everybody is concerned about the expensive health insurance and obviously that is a concern.

 

Personally I still work in Thailand. And I have a decent private health insurance. But I also have, like all Thai employees, a Thai government health insurance (which I currently never use).

As far as I know also farangs are allowed to continue to pay for the Thai health insurance after retirement. It is obviously not very good but it is very cheap. And that might be good enough for many of us who maybe can't afford a good health insurance if we grow old and there is not much money left.

I tried to continue paying for my Thai health insurance.

 

I was working notice at the time and still had a valid work permit so they told me to come back when the work permit has been cancelled.

 

When I went back they told me mai dai, you don't have a work permit!

 

So don't count on it.

[crazykopite]

Im 70 been here for 16 years on retirement in the process of putting my two grandchildren’s names to inherit all that I own in Thailand and when the goodman upstairs calls me home I’ll go up in smoke in the local temple just hope someone takes care of my cat if she is still around 

[Harveyboy]

live a better life here as retired ..try not to worry to much about the future. death is coming to all of us there is no back door enjoy the time you have 

[khunPer]

21 hours ago, Leveraged said:

Any input would be helpful on the above concerns. I would like to hear how others are planning for their end-of-life stage in Thailand and what they plan to do so that they are not a burden on anyone. It would be appreciated to hear how people plan to overcome these hurdles.

Good points to consider.

 

1

Medical insurance is possible to aquire up till 70-75 years of age, and with a self-risk fairly affordable, however depending on coverage sum and the always “relative” affordable aspect, when the talk is about money; what is affordable, or even cheap, for some, might be way beyond possibilities for others.

 

You can find coverage of 600,000 baht inpatient, and 60,000 baht outpatient, with 200,000 baht self-risk for 29,700 baht a year renewable fixed price from age 76 till age 100, but you need to signup when not older than 75 years; it’s one of the O-A insurances, link HERE.

 

Pacific Prime has a number of possibilities with or without deductible, but if you choose one with deductible you can be health insured when over 70 from around 2,500 baht a month. Of course the higher total sum, the less deductible, and the higher age, health insurance costs normally increase. You can get in instant quote HERE.

 

No matter what insurance you select, you always need to have some instant cash available when living in Thailand – some call it a “Rainy Day Account”, which I find as an excellent expression – the sum is depending on what you can afford, and your general health condition.

 

2

I’ve decided to use retirement extensions, then you don’t have much to worry about, and easy paperwork at the immigration office – you don’t even need to marry a Thai, but can stick to girlfriends or partner(s), depending of you preferences.

 

Avoid the so-called A-O “retirement visa” and opt for a normal non-immigrant O-visa, and do your annual extensions based on 800,000 baht bank deposit, if you can afford it, for example use a 12-month fixed bank account for optimal interest, and just leave the deposit, and sleep well knowing that you always have the fund for extending your next stay without speculation about topping up, or monthly transfers, or changes in currency exchange rates.

 

I’m about to say that if you cannot afford an 800k baht deposit, you shall save up some more money before moving to Thailand for retirement; or simply said little hard, think twice, if you cannot find that level of money then Thailand might not at all be the optimal destination for your retirement.

 

Make sure you have a last will, or rather two – one for any assets in your home country, and another for any assets in Thailand – and if married make sure your wife also have a last will, as a husband after Thai law is only entitled to 50 percent of the estate, if there is no will. Even when staying with a girlfriend, or partner, a last will makes great sense.

 

3

Yes, dementia, and accidents that can make you disabled, are some major factors to consider, together with in general any health problems you brings with you.

 

You need to compare with your possibilities in your home country in similar cases, i.e. are you depending on health insurance and self-support, or do you originate from a country where the government takes care of most?

 

In Thailand self-support can be cheaper than in your home country, and the quality might be equal good, or even better, but it requires that you have some funds available – which brings me back to what I said above, namely that if you don’t have some level of savings, then think twice about living your retirement in Thailand, or have a plan-B ready for backing out and return to your home country.

 

If your government takes care of you in your home country, you might wish to consider, if the quality might be better in Thailand, if you have savings enough for buying support here. I originates from a Scandinavian country where the governments takes care of most – we pay for it with the World’s highest taxes – but unfortunately the quality have been decreasing over the years, so I’ll prefer to stay in Thailand if it's possible.

 

Health is a major factor to consider when moving more permanently – if you already have problems, or know some age-related problems are common in your family, you shall seriously consider some precautions – and also, if you are prepared to stay here until you die, almost no matter what happens, i.e. will you be able to employ a house keeper, and whatever is needed domestic service, in case of the unexpected; or can you expect a younger wife or partner will take care of you?

 

Living a reasonable healthy life-style might prevent a lot, but it’s no guarantee.

 

What I have done...

• I have a younger girlfriend, who states that our agreement is that I take care of her, and she takes care of me, when I get old – scares me sometimes little, when she says that I might outlive her...????
• I use the 800k baht deposit method, and I sleep extremely well.
• I always have some instant cash available, and access to some extra savings, relative sum compared to my financial status.
• I used a not too heavy health insurance the first years and saved up the difference, deposit in shared accounts with my girlfriend, so she has access to bail me out. For a number of years I’ve been self-insured – my health is so far excellent – but I seriously consider an insurance with a deductible self-risk before I’m 75, mainly because it's last change to sign in. I have a senior PA-insurance, mainly because it’s a reasonable cheap option; the cover is not enormous.
• I decided to “invest” in a home, which in long term makes it little cheaper in relative rent, compared to renting for 15+ years.
• I made two last wills.

 

I’ve decided to take the risk; I will rather have some outstanding good years in Thailand – which I already have had more than 15 of – and then sign out, instead of having a long run of fairly unhappy years in my home country, especially sitting in my rocking chair and think of all that I missed, because I didn’t dare to take this risk, and now it’s way too late...????

 

 

 

 

[khunPer]

20 hours ago, Leveraged said:

Is the care-giver going to drag your crippled and mentally debilitated self to immigration? I got no issue with a care home or having people look after me if im out of it, but how to you do that while you're a goner? 

 

Ive never seen any type of these people in immigration in any of the hundred times ive been there. 

 

So how does it work in that case?

Power of attorney, I presume, some lawyers can fix anything with a phone call...????

[khunPer]

7 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Everyone is going to get old,and die , thats a given.

Everyone is going to die is given...

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, BananaGuy said:

The insurance thing concerns me though … I’m 69 now, likely 70 by the time a move is possible … I know 70 is a common cut-off date for getting a new policy …

 

any thoughts here? Is it possible (for example) for a non-Thai resident to sign up for health insurance with an immi-approved Thai insurer. 

Yes, see links in my above longer post to OP, and there might be more possibilities if you search for them...????

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, meechai said:

So imagine in Thailand it is now 800k in bank to stay on retirement visa...Suddenly it will be 3.2 million next renewal!

Can you hack it? If not what is your plan B? Because many in Malaysia now wonder

Up til now you have been so-called "grand fathered" for retirement extension deposits, if you have an ongoing renewal history - to my knowledge some still stays on 200k baht, and 400k baht, deposits - us that are using 800k baht deposit now might as well one day be "grand fathered", but if you are in doubt, keep another 800k baht in savings, historically they used to double up...????

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

I tried to continue paying for my Thai health insurance.

 

I was working notice at the time and still had a valid work permit so they told me to come back when the work permit has been cancelled.

 

When I went back they told me mai dai, you don't have a work permit!

 

So don't count on it.

Thanks, I will keep that in mind.

[Sparktrader]

20 hours ago, BE88 said:

Yes, I think it is a good solution to have no plans for when to die, it reminds me of a friend of mine who at 28 had already bought a grave and so was happy to know where he would have lived when he died.

 

 

Guy was a loser

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

Everyone is going to die is given...

Highlander 800 years old

Thats me

[Sparktrader]

4 hours ago, Will B Good said:

65, wife is 38. If she wants to inherit she knows what she has to do.

Plastic bag?

[Sparktrader]

2 hours ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

My dad got real serious once and asked me what he should do if I happened to die in one of those 'foreign countries you're always traveling to'. I told him don't do anything. Just leave me there. He smiled with a big sigh of relief and said, "Thank God. That's what I was hoping you'd say."

Legend

[Sparktrader]

2 hours ago, Harveyboy said:

live a better life here as retired ..try not to worry to much about the future. death is coming to all of us there is no back door enjoy the time you have 

There is a back door. The Doors wrote a song about it.

[3NUMBAS]

the boredom factor is bad they dont realise this fact .mounting health problems is another they dont factor in ...

[3NUMBAS]

a friend of mine who was in pitsanlok was so bored after retiremnt as a teacher he jumped in the river and comiitted suicide... he burnt his bridges so coudnt go home

 

he had lung probs from smoking and a limp dick due to booze so jumped in the river

[473geo]

The way my wife takes care of me now have no doubts about the care and attention I will receive as I age.

Life is for living not fretting

[Isaan sailor]

Good questions and discussions.  When my health insurance becomes unmanageable in a few years—I’ll self-insure.  But I’ll keep most assets in America, and can get them here PDQ. The Medicare option is temping, but sitting in a nursing home while the state sticks a straw in your bank account and sucks out your life savings month by month doesn’t interest me.  Probably cheaper to get home care here.  If my younger wife can’t handle it—plenty of pretty home care nurses around.

[Stevemercer]

You could marry a Government official, such as a teacher or nurse. Their spouses (including foreign husbands) are covered by their medical insurance. This is a big help to me (my wife is an ex-teacher) as it covers all my ongoing medical conditions and will cover future ailments.

 

Buy medical insurance at least 5 years before you turn 65. They will usually lock in the premiums for these 5 years at a fixed rate and guarantee to cover you over 65. I also have such insurance cover at 25,000 Baht per year. I haven't used it to date. If you exclude outpatient cover, medical insurance is relatively cheap if you buy in well before age 65.

 

Remember most ATM cards have accident cover.

 

A basic nursing home (air-conditioned with beds in wards) is currently about 20,000 Baht per month. For a basic single room, add 5,000 Baht. For a top end facility you are looking at about 40,000 Baht per month.