Expat on Samui says he was threatened with deportation by hospital over Covid bill

[Conquerbrqvilok]

4 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I have the RooJai Covid-19 policy. 17 pages all in English

 

Medical treatment from infections    -- Coverage up to 100,000 THB .
Illness with serious conditions or diseases caused by a coronavirus infection  --  Coverage up to 1,000,000 TH

But you need to pay first then claim not everyone have 1 MB in hand 

[jerrymahoney]

5 minutes ago, Conquerbrqvilok said:

But you need to pay first then claim not everyone have 1 MB in hand 

So if you had no insurance, how would pay a million baht expense anyway?

[NoshowJones]

6 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I have the RooJai Covid-19 policy. 17 pages all in English

 

Medical treatment from infections    -- Coverage up to 100,000 THB .
Illness with serious conditions or diseases caused by a coronavirus infection  --  Coverage up to 1,000,000 TH

An insurance company with everything in English is still full of legal jargon for the same obvious reasons. How long have you had this insurance? Will they still renew it when it runs out because of all the increased cases?

[jerrymahoney]

6 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

An insurance company with everything in English is still full of legal jargon for the same obvious reasons. How long have you had this insurance? Will they still renew it when it runs out because of all the increased cases?

Some people when you mention 'insurance' are like a Chatty-Kathy doll -- you just pull the string on her back and they just say the same thing over-and-over.

 

The policy runs from 21 April 2021 to 20 April 2022. I will not be renewing it. 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[NoshowJones]

58 minutes ago, robblok said:

Possum, that is about the same price (ok a lil cheaper) in the Netherlands. Its not about how much time it takes to carry out. Its about the machine that does the testing, the testing reagents and that kind of stuff. If you have a 1 million (think its much more) machine that does the testing its only normal that part of that is paid for by those that get tested ?

 

If i need an really expensive truck to move your motorcycle, should i then only charge you for my time or also for part of the price of the truck. ?

 

When you were a musician (at least this is how it goes in the Netherlands)  They don't say oh i play one hour that is 100euros lets divide 100 by the number of tickets.

 

No they would include rent for the location, add some extra for other overhead ect. Its not about time, its about all other costs too.

Everything you are saying makes sense Rob, but lets put it another way. What is a rough profit margin for one of these PSR tests?

[NoshowJones]

4 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Some people when you mention 'insurance' are like a Chatty-Kathy doll -- you just pull the string on her back and they just say the same thing over-and-over.

 

The policy runs from 21 April 2021 to 20 April 2022. I will not be renewing it. 

21 April 2021 to 20 April 2022

Yes I will keeping saying the same things when I want to answer someone's post. There are hundreds of posts going through AN every day, and also a membership of thousands.

If I see the same poster saying the same thing regularly, I just move on, you should do the same, there are plenty of posters seeing my repeated posts for the first time.

[jerrymahoney]

11 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Yes I will keeping saying the same things when I want to answer someone's post. There are hundreds of posts going through AN every day, and also a membership of thousands.

If I see the same poster saying the same thing regularly, I just move on, you should do the same, there are plenty of posters seeing my repeated posts for the first time.

A lot of denied claims on an individual policy -- as opposed to a group policy -- are because someone supplied false medical history to the underwriters under a penalty of fraud signed statement.

Edited September 23, 2021 by jerrymahoney
quantifier

[robblok]

Just now, possum1931 said:

Everything you are saying makes sense Rob, but lets put it another way. What is a rough profit margin for one of these PSR tests?

I just asked someone in the field. She is telling me the machines are one part but the reagent is the biggest part. There are not many sellers of machines and reagents globally. They keep the price the same all over the world (that is why prices are similar the world over). 

 

She is telling me that they don't make a huge profit on it and the hospitals can't make much profit because of the competition. The sellers of those machines and reagent set a recommended price (so there is some profit) and hospitals can go higher. But they cant go to high because of competition.

 

Given what i heard i dont think its more then 30%. But it really depends on how much tests they sell. Because the more tests they sell the lower the part of the machine is in the cost aspects as the price of the machine stays the same.

 

That is is what capitalisms does it makes sure there is competition and because there are multiple sellers of those machines who compete they can't make too much profit because others would lower their prices to take their market share. Same goes for the sellers of those tests if they set their price to high people will go to other test locations. So that keeps the profiteering in check.

 

So i would say no more then 30% or so again can be more can be less. 

 

Profiteering really only happens when there are monopolies, (or secret price agreements) otherwise the market will keep the price in check.

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

Most denied claims on an individual policy -- as opposed to a group policy -- are because someone supplied false medical history to the underwriters under a penalty of fraud signed statement.

You don't get my point, do you? What I am saying is insurance companies use legal jargon and small print to try and avoid paying out claims, I am not saying they don't pay out on claims. now let's just end this debate.

[jerrymahoney]

9 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

You don't get my point, do you? What I am saying is insurance companies use legal jargon and small print to try and avoid paying out claims, I am not saying they don't pay out on claims. now let's just end this debate.

Insurance companies use legal jargon to protect themselves so they that are only obligated to pay out claims that are as specified in the policy wording and are protected against fraudulent claims.

 

I don't agree with your statement as to why medical insurance companies use 'legal jargon'.

Edited September 23, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[NoshowJones]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

I just asked someone in the field. She is telling me the machines are one part but the reagent is the biggest part. There are not many sellers of machines and reagents globally. They keep the price the same all over the world (that is why prices are similar the world over). 

 

She is telling me that they don't make a huge profit on it and the hospitals can't make much profit because of the competition. The sellers of those machines and reagent set a recommended price (so there is some profit) and hospitals can go higher. But they cant go to high because of competition.

 

Given what i heard i dont think its more then 30%. But it really depends on how much tests they sell. Because the more tests they sell the lower the part of the machine is in the cost aspects as the price of the machine stays the same.

 

That is is what capitalisms does it makes sure there is competition and because there are multiple sellers of those machines who compete they can't make too much profit because others would lower their prices to take their market share. Same goes for the sellers of those tests if they set their price to high people will go to other test locations. So that keeps the profiteering in check.

 

So i would say no more then 30% or so again can be more can be less. 

 

Profiteering really only happens when there are monopolies, (or secret price agreements) otherwise the market will keep the price in check.

Thanks Rob, I understand what you are saying and accept it where the PSR tests are concerned. when you see what the unelected government is or has been doing with the vaccines, you expect it everywhere.

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Thanks Rob, I understand what you are saying and accept it where the PSR tests are concerned. when you see what the unelected government is or has been doing with the vaccines, you expect it everywhere.

The government is a different story they make the rules. They can do what they want. 

 

But did you pay (if you got vaccinated) i did not pay and got vaccinated. So the Thai government did not cheat me.

 

I believe that competition is what prevents huge profiteering as long as there are no monopolies. The vaccines could be much more expensive if there was only one company making them. Because then they dictate the price. Now with more and more different vaccines coming on the market prices could drop. 

 

I am not sure about hospitals in Thailand if they have price agreements (in my country that is illegal). But price agreements will make high profits possible. It effectively removes competition on price. 

 

Look there are really bad cases of profiteering from big pharma, one where a company bought up all the competition (IMHO should not be allowed) and then jacked up the prices of their medicine not based on higher cost but based on the fact they were the only one that sold it. That is something i feel is totally wrong. Same if big pharma companies agree on bottom prices of drugs also removes competition and is wrong (illigal in my country but hard to prove).

 

But its not just big pharma, for a long time in the Netherlands the companies that constructed roads made secret agreements on price so the government had to pay more (they were found out and i believe action was taken). Profiteering happens and its bad I agree.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/22/2021 at 9:43 AM, hioctane said:

All the more reason you should have travel insurance especially in this environment.

Can you recommend a travel insurance provider for foreigners who have lived here for several years as the Briton in the OP has?  Thanks.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I am saying for 1000bt he could have had a years covid insurance. Do you dispute that yes or no ? 

Do you think a 1000 bt would be too much ? if so why is consulting a lawyer and paying 10k not a problem. So I conclude his mistake for not having an insurance.

Mistake 2 is going for the more expensive location (something you agree on)

Mistake 3 is thinking its free and not getting it in writing

Mistake 4 is that he did not know he could be locked up (though i think he knew as he talked with thai friends who said this would be free)

 

So after all these mistakes made by him you still see him as the victim. I find it strange that you feel he did nothing wrong while all those mistakes he made are things that a normal person would have verified. 

Can you explain why you don't take his mistakes into consideration ? Why do you blame the hospital.

 

Plus this report is really bias as there are no comments of the hospital, so even based on these bias facts you still feel he did not do anything wrong. I just don't get it.

 

It seems you feel so much pity and believe all he says its just unreasonable. What ever happened to own responsibility. 

 

I guess I am saying that it is irrelevant whether he's smart, stupid, responsible or irresponsible, nice or nasty, or anything else. That is not the issue here.

 

Yes, in my view he made a number of errors, perhaps is the type of person who should never be in Thailand, and it may be the case that he games systems and in a way got a touch of rough justice. And yes, we can only go on the story as reported. There may be another side.

 

However,I do not for one moment think that all people who test positive on Samuii island are compelled to quarantine at this resort. So obviously there is a story here, that will likely involve any combination of incompetence, greed, racism, or just sheer absurdity.  A simple explanation might be in confusing the tourist who flies in, with a long stayer on a non-immigrant visa. The two are obviously not the same.

 

(Again, rob, it's not that I don't see or agree with your point of view, and I must admit I have been somewhat amiss in my own contingency plans, as I like many assumed that all quarantine was in a 'field facility' and free.  And I hadn't even considered there was locally available covid insurance.  Yes, our first duty should be to avoid these things from happening in the first place if possible.)

 

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

I am saying for 1000bt he could have had a years covid insurance.

Sincere question, can you enlarge on that and where the cover can be obtained for foreign residents in Thailand?   That's something that I'd be interested in.  Thanks.

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

I guess I am saying that it is irrelevant whether he's smart, stupid, responsible or irresponsible, nice or nasty, or anything else. That is not the issue here.

 

Yes, in my view he made a number of errors, perhaps is the type of person who should never be in Thailand, and it may be the case that he games systems and in a way got a touch of rough justice. And yes, we can only go on the story as reported. There may be another side.

 

However,I do not for one moment think that all people who test positive on Samuii island are compelled to quarantine at this resort. So obviously there is a story here, that will likely involve any combination of incompetence, greed, racism, or just sheer absurdity.  A simple explanation might be in confusing the tourist who flies in, with a long stayer on a non-immigrant visa. The two are obviously not the same.

 

(Again, rob, it's not that I don't see or agree with your point of view, and I must admit I have been somewhat amiss in my own contingency plans, as I like many assumed that all quarantine was in a 'field facility' and free.  And I hadn't even considered there was locally available covid insurance.  Yes, our first duty should be to avoid these things from happening in the first place if possible.)

 

Then the only thing we differ on is the amount of trust in this guy. I don't believe his story that he was given no option for a field hospital or covid ward. I feel this is a pretty one sided story where they only listened to this guy. I think I have shown that field hospitals did exists in Samui or on the main land but in that province. 

You are convinced he was given no options, i am not convinced about that and even if that was the case he should have informed about it. Think that is the point of contention. No way to know for sure. 

 

But i agree if this hotel was forced upon him and cheaper options were withheld even after asking about them then I agree with you. However i only see that he was not allowed to quarantine at home, nothing about being denied a field hospital or hospital ward.

 

Nobody was allowed to quarantine at home, only in places where there was a shortage of beds. So its not as if he was denied an option that was open for other people in Samui. It might have been open for people in BKK at some point but never to those in Samui. 

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Sincere question, can you enlarge on that and where the cover can be obtained for foreign residents in Thailand?   That's something that I'd be interested in.  Thanks.

 

21 hours ago, rbkk said:

One-time annual fee. Purchased through an agent. Oddly their site used to come up in English for me but now I can't see how to change to English. The wife has her Thai Life Insurance license and said this was the best available for foreigners at the time. She is not here for me to check at the moment about whether the same policy is available now.

https://www.dhipaya.co.th/

 

21 hours ago, Salerno said:

The language choice dropdown appears to be a single choice ... Thai 555. Translate works OK and looks like 850 Bht now:

 

 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Sincere question, can you enlarge on that and where the cover can be obtained for foreign residents in Thailand?   That's something that I'd be interested in.  Thanks.

https://www.roojai.com/en/covid/

 

Been mentioned a few times in this topic already. Now its a bit over 1000 bt for basic package. I don't have this insurance I just have an Expat insurance from a French company AAInsurance or something pay a lot more get more too.

[gearbox]

36 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Can you recommend a travel insurance provider for foreigners who have lived here for several years as the Briton in the OP has?  Thanks.

If you are already in Thailand, I know of only two travel insurance providers which cover Covid - ACS and Safetywing. Both don't cover asymptomatic cases, but would cover the much more expensive hospitalisation. For asymptomatic cases Roojai or Dhipaya are adequate, as discussed already in the thread.

If you are outside Thailand and enter with CoE there is more choice like AXA Thailand or Luma.

[Liverpool Lou]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

https://www.roojai.com/en/covid/

 

Been mentioned a few times in this topic already. Now its a bit over 1000 bt for basic package. I don't have this insurance I just have an Expat insurance from a French company AAInsurance or something pay a lot more get more too.

Thanks.  Just got rejected on age.

[Destiny1990]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

You also don't read well 1 day hospital and 14 days in a hotel he choose for quarantine. (I posted picsof the hotel before will again)

 

I don't think his problem was about the price but the fact that he had to pay. But even Thais pay if they go to hotel quarantine, not if they go to a field hospital. 

 

He claims he was not allowed too or not available but there are field hospitals at the main land and a ward on the island. So I have my doubts maybe he just thought why not hotel if its free. I mean we are just hearing HIS side of the story.

Well don’t understand why a hospital need to bill him for a stay in the hotel and making comments about reporting him with immigration. Anyway quarantines can just be done at home.

[gearbox]

11 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Thanks.  Just got rejected on age.

Try Dhipaya, I think their policy covers up to 99 years old. And ask your bank, some of the banks offer these policies too, probably rebranded Dhipaya.

[rbkk]

2 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

I have the RooJai Covid-19 policy. 17 pages all in English

 

Medical treatment from infections    -- Coverage up to 100,000 THB .
Illness with serious conditions or diseases caused by a coronavirus infection  --  Coverage up to 1,000,000 TH

Looking here I think the policies have now changed to what you have. Am I correct? They seem twice as expensive with 1/3 of the death benefits (2,179 baht for 300,000 death coverage.)

https://www.roojai.com/en/covid/

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Well don’t understand why a hospital need to bill him for a stay in the hotel and making comments about reporting him with immigration. Anyway quarantines can just be done at home.

Quarantines are not allowed at home when you got covid. If you got covid your forced to be quarantined. Only in rare occasions when field hospitals and hospitals are full do they allow home quarantine. 

 

The hotel was a quarantine hotel with medical facilities and had a deal with the hospital to take in people who did not want to quarantine in field hospitals or normal hospitals. 

 

Havent you read the news about people being put in field hospitals after being tested positive it was not a choice for them but forced.

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Thanks.  Just got rejected on age.

That sucks

[jerrymahoney]

7 minutes ago, rbkk said:

Looking here I think the policies have now changed to what you have. Am I correct? They seem twice as expensive with 1/3 of the death benefits (2,179 baht for 300,000 death coverage.)

https://www.roojai.com/en/covid/

It seems you are right -- I bought the policy last April 2021 pretty sure less than 1000  baht

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, gearbox said:

42 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Can you recommend a travel insurance provider for foreigners who have lived here for several years as the Briton in the OP has?  Thanks.

If you are already in Thailand, I know of only two travel insurance providers which cover Covid - ACS and Safetywing.

Thanks, but I've never come across a provider of travel insurance that includes those living outside their own country, it always has a time limit and/or an exclusion for residents.   Neither of those brokers can provide travel insurance for non-travellers/residents or periods of more than 364 days maximum.

[Destiny1990]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

Quarantines are not allowed at home when you got covid. If you got covid your forced to be quarantined. Only in rare occasions when field hospitals and hospitals are full do they allow home quarantine. 

 

The hotel was a quarantine hotel with medical facilities and had a deal with the hospital to take in people who did not want to quarantine in field hospitals or normal hospitals. 

 

Havent you read the news about people being put in field hospitals after being tested positive it was not a choice for them but forced.

Glad to be in Europe without any face masks rules and these quarantines ripp-offs.

[gearbox]

9 minutes ago, rbkk said:

Looking here I think the policies have now changed to what you have. Am I correct? They seem twice as expensive with 1/3 of the death benefits (2,179 baht for 300,000 death coverage.)

https://www.roojai.com/en/covid/

Yup, just checked my email from mid April,  the price almost tripled for 100k inpatient, with the severe illness or death down to 300k from 1 million. Looks like the current Covid wave has pushed up the prices a lot.

[rbkk]

 

33 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Yup, just checked my email from mid April,  the price almost tripled for 100k inpatient, with the severe illness or death down to 300k from 1 million. Looks like the current Covid wave has pushed up the prices a lot.

But not yet at https://www.dhipaya.co.th/product-detail-10-37-12.html

850 baht for 1 payment/year

Foreigners covered (without a work permit) if they have stayed in Thailand more than 6 months

Age up to 99 years old

100,000 baht private hospital bills

1,000,000 baht death benefits

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by rbkk