Difference between 91 and 95 fuel

[rutteketuut]

16 hours ago, Montnoveau said:

Every engine is optimized for a specific octane number fuel.

So if 91 is good enough, then running with 95 will not give your any benefits.

Running with cheaper 91 in an engine made for 95, will cause engine knocking/pinging, which in the end can damage your engine.

 

But TS is actually not way off in his thinking.

Generally speaking, an engine with higher compression ratio, requiring higher octane number fuel is actually more efficient, more powerful and will provide a better fuel economy compared to a lower compression ratio engine running on a lower octane number fuel.

Correct answer.

[brianthainess]

23 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

Other than price, what are the differences between 91 and E20, in terms of performance and getting the most miles?

In my car it seems to make any difference, same klm per litre, performance wise i don't notice any difference. 

[Doctor Tom]

4

[bangon04]

On 9/24/2021 at 4:59 AM, johng said:

E20 has 20 percent ethanol   which I believe has a lower energy density than straight petrol

(less Km's /L)  ethanol is also a higher octane fuel   E85 is supposed to be good for tuned up turbo engines. 

Also bear in mind that Ethanol is Hydroscopic, so has the ability to build up water residue in the engine and pipes, especially if left unused for a while. This can have a bad effect on rubbers and plastics. Logically E20 attracts more water than E10 and E10 is worse than E0. Older cars really do not like Ethanol much...

[spidermike007]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:40 AM, Jonathan Fairfield said:

Other than price, what are the differences between 91 and E20, in terms of performance and getting the most miles?

I find my new car gets far better mileage with gasahol 95, over E20. Never compared it to 91. Gasahol 95 (orange) is only 10% gasahol. Supposed to be easier on a newer engine. Would use benzine 95 (yellow) , but at 7 baht a liter more, seems too expensive. Hardly seems to matter with older cars. 

Edited September 25, 2021 by spidermike007

[findlay13]

21 hours ago, bangon04 said:

Also bear in mind that Ethanol is Hydroscopic, so has the ability to build up water residue in the engine and pipes, especially if left unused for a while. This can have a bad effect on rubbers and plastics. Logically E20 attracts more water than E10 and E10 is worse than E0. Older cars really do not like Ethanol much...

I use straight Benzine in my bike in Thailand.I've been stuck in Oz for a year and a half. I have someone starting my bike there [Vulcan 650.] the benzine has lasted, with a two litre top up, and still starts ok.I doubt E10 would.I have a battery tender too.In Australia ,I run my two Triumphs on 95 straight petrol.I have tried ethanol twice. Once in Thailand on a 600 Honda I had [it ran like <deleted> until I got  filled with benzine again] and once in Oz in my car which is ethanol compatible.It used more petrol and had less power,so now I run straight 91 in that.I think ethanol is the biggest con job around.The car in Thailand gets 95 ethanol but it's started and run nearly daily.

Edited September 26, 2021 by findlay13

[Kwasaki]

27 minutes ago, findlay13 said:

I use straight Benzine in my bike in Thailand.I've been stuck in Oz for a year and a half. I have someone starting my bike there [Vulcan 650.] the benzine has lasted, with a two litre top up, and still starts ok.I doubt E10 would.I have a battery tender too.In Australia ,I run my two Triumphs on 95 straight petrol.I have tried ethanol twice. Once in Thailand on a 600 Honda I had [it ran like <deleted> until I got  filled with benzine again] and once in Oz in my car which is ethanol compatible.It used more petrol and had less power,so now I run straight 91 in that.I think ethanol is the biggest con job around.The car in Thailand gets 95 ethanol but it's started and run nearly daily.

Thanks for the laugh. ????

[Kwasaki]

22 hours ago, bangon04 said:

Also bear in mind that Ethanol is Hydroscopic, so has the ability to build up water residue in the engine and pipes, especially if left unused for a while. This can have a bad effect on rubbers and plastics. Logically E20 attracts more water than E10 and E10 is worse than E0. Older cars really do not like Ethanol much...

You are many years back in time mush. ????

[transam]

30 minutes ago, findlay13 said:

I use straight Benzine in my bike in Thailand.I've been stuck in Oz for a year and a half. I have someone starting my bike there [Vulcan 650.] the benzine has lasted, with a two litre top up, and still starts ok.I doubt E10 would.I have a battery tender too.In Australia ,I run my two Triumphs on 95 straight petrol.I have tried ethanol twice. Once in Thailand on a 600 Honda I had [it ran like <deleted> until I got  filled with benzine again] and once in Oz in my car which is ethanol compatible.It used more petrol and had less power,so now I run straight 91 in that.I think ethanol is the biggest con job around.The car in Thailand gets 95 ethanol but it's started and run nearly daily.

My car runs great on E20, why do you think that is.....?

[Kwasaki]

28 minutes ago, transam said:

My car runs great on E20, why do you think that is.....?

I don't think he has the brain capacity to know something like that. ????????????????

[seedy]

1 hour ago, findlay13 said:

I doubt E10 would.

Mine sat in a steel crate for almost 7 years, full of E10

Drain fuel, fill up, Vroom !!!

No issues

[seedy]

23 hours ago, bangon04 said:

This can have a bad effect on rubbers and plastics.

WOW - what do they make water bottles from ?

And garden hoses ?

[MadMuhammad]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:57 AM, Crossy said:

An interesting if somewhat old study BlendFuelCon.inBKK_2007.pdf

 

The takeaway from this is:-

 

The investigation indicated that the fuel consumption of E85 was 18.79% and E20 was 0.56% higher than E10 (regular 91).

 

I'm sure our members can do the relevant Baht/km sums for their specific vehicle ???? 

 

 

My E85 consumption is far above 18.79% from standard ????

[alanrchase]

My motorbike will take 91 (E10), 95 (E10)(E20). Went to a station yesterday and they had no 91 pumps. The 91 pumps seem to have been replaced by E20 pumps. The E20 is on a green rectangle. Is the E20 95 or 91?

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by alanrchase
Image change

[transam]

1 minute ago, alanrchase said:

My motorbike will take 91 (E10), 95 (E10)(E20). Went to a station yesterday and they had no 91 pumps. The 91 pumps seem to have been replaced by E20 pumps. The E20 is on a green rectangle. Is the E20 95 or 91?

1633572060110 1.12 MB · 1 download

E20 is 91 octane with 20% ethanol, which brings the octane up to about 98...

My runaround uses E20, it has a compression ratio of 11-1......

[KhunLA]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:59 AM, Kwasaki said:

Marginal just use which evers available and cheapest.

Yes, most cars work fine on 87-89 octane actually.  We use E85 (MG ZS) and car actually designed for it.  Did own km/liter test w/ E85 E20 91, and E85 was the best, thankfully the cheapest.

 

I used to work for Amoco (USA), and the biggest scam was is the premium gases, up to 102 octane for 20% more price per gal in USA.  Dealers paid almost the same price as regular gas.  Biggest profit make for gas stations.  Even funnier, lot of the gas came from the same refineries, as base fuel with additives for different brands.  Just branded differently as so many products are.  Sheep believe the marketing and people were so stupid back in the day.

 

Like they are now with oil.  Selling point used to be, oil last for long time.  Now idiots change their oil every 10k kms ... ????????????

[Kwasaki]

20 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Yes, most cars work fine on 87-89 octane actually.  We use E85 (MG ZS) and car actually designed for it.  Did own km/liter test w/ E85 E20 91, and E85 was the best, thankfully the cheapest.

 

I used to work for Amoco (USA), and the biggest scam was is the premium gases, up to 102 octane for 20% more price per gal in USA.  Dealers paid almost the same price as regular gas.  Biggest profit make for gas stations.  Even funnier, lot of the gas came from the same refineries, as base fuel with additives for different brands.  Just branded differently as so many products are.  Sheep believe the marketing and people were so stupid back in the day.

 

Like they are now with oil.  Selling point used to be, oil last for long time.  Now idiots change their oil every 10k kms ... ????????????

Yes the key word for vehicle fuel use is engine design. 

As you say you can run your MG on E85 from memory has an octane rating of 100-105.

Our 1•9 Isuzu can run the diesel available here which is B10 it run OK on B20 too but the garage didn't sell enough of it so changed there labelling to just Diesel and Diesel B7. 

My sportsbike can only run OK on pure gasoline, 91 or 95 E10, I use 91 E10 all the time.

I could get it to run on Nitromethane but not now. ????

As for my truck I do 12K kilos or 2 years on Mobil diesel oil.  

My bike 10,000K or 2 years on Castrol.

I agree marketing is a con. 

 

[Thunglom]

E10 fuel has. "shelf-life" of 3 to 6 month, whereas older non bio content fuels last 6 months to a year. This hardly seems to be a practical problem for most vehicle owners.

On your filler cap it should tell you what fuel is suitable for your car. This may very from country to country.

For instance - UK is now totally E10 - and there ae meant to be about 600,000 vehicles that this is not suitable for.

however on the other hand ALL Hodas from 1996 are OK with it.

The damage caused is not immediate and drastic, it is often related to pipes, plastics and filters and underperforming engines - although unless you are doing extensive mileage at high speeds you may not notice the difference.

 

here is Autocar's take on the stuff....

 

“E10 petrol’s higher bioethanol content is corrosive to rubber parts, gaskets, seals, metals and plastics, which causes engine damage, so it could dislodge deposits in older engines and fuel systems, causing blockages.

 

……. If you make a mistake at the pumps and brim your older car with E10, all is not lost. Unlike the fuel-tank draining consequences of a petrol-diesel misfuel, simply dilute it with E5 from then on and it should be fine. But don’t make a habit of it, say the manufacturers, including Shell.” – autocar.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Thunglom

[Thunglom]

With new fuels the problem is not so much octanes and the amount of bio fuel they contain.

 97 octane “super unleaded” in Britain is roughly equivalent to 91 octane premium in the United States. - the octane is just the fuels suitability in higher compression engines.

E10 is a biofuel made up of 90% regular unleaded and 10% ethanol 

E10 fuel introduced in UK, increases the share of the renewable energy produced using crops to 10%. It's estimated that the greener fuel could reduce CO2 emissions by 750,000 tonnes per year, the equivalent of taking up to 350,000 cars off the road. [RAC].

Thailand has five categories of petrol at retail pumps: gasohol 91 E10, gasohol 95 E10, E20, E85 and premium ULP 95 petrol.

Putting high octane in a low octane engine will have no significant effect whatsoever - apart from increasing the fuel companiy's profit margin a little.

Companies in Thailand are pretty strictly controlled as to why they can charge for basic fuel, but they can increase the profit margins by adding additives.

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Thunglom