4 minutes ago, driver52 said:

who is to say what is genuinely needed? The only certainty is the world runs on propaganda; if not why are there so many fat eejits in the west? lol

We need to consume less and an EV is pants if you live in the middle of nowhere.....whatever happened to keeping a 15 year old Peugeot running? I guess they were too lightweight for the fatties eh ????

Well I'd rather follow the recommendations of independenet experts than the vested interests of the fossil fuel industry. Talking of which, fossil fuels are what the world has run on since the industrial revolution (not propaganda). That's what's got us to the current position, warts and all.

 

But yes, maintaining an old Peugeot 205 has its merits.

 

Most of the time I'm in deep country, but my Volvo hybrid does pretty well on our home generated solar electricity.

 

The thing is, we're all of us on the cusp of a major global change, some people embrace it, some people try to resist the irresistible.

 

The Luddites tried to resist new technology (textile machinery) back in the 18th century. Needless to say they failed. The new machinery propelled the UK into the industrial revolution, to be followed by every other nation on earth eventually.

 

King Canute tried to push back the sea, needless to say he failed too.

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, blackprince said:

King Canute tried to push back the sea, needless to say he failed too.

Not exactly. He sat at the shoreline to demonstrate to his courtiers that his powers did not extend to commanding the tide not to come in.

11 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

Not exactly. He sat at the shoreline to demonstrate to his courtiers that his powers did not extend to commanding the tide not to come in.

Quite so, Canute demonstrated to his courtiers that it was futile to attempt to turn back the tide.

 

Just as the efforts of the Luddites to turn back the technological changes of the industrial revolution were futile .

 

Just as the efforts of people attempting turn back the current technological revolution are futile..

 

 

30 minutes ago, blackprince said:

Well I'd rather follow the recommendations of independenet experts than the vested interests of the fossil fuel industry

there aren't any 'independent experts' though! They're all funded/bribed by someone with a VI! I agree that the oil industry has created massive problems...like when they decided to destroy the rail networks in Europe cos it was more profitable to have everything on the roads......

From a moral view I agree big oil sux ass BUT from an investment perspective they're going to make plenty of moolah over the next few years.....mainly cos this 'climate change' is a load o <deleted> when the SUN still calls all the shots ????

PS I love technology, I wish we'd concentrate more on ebikes rather than lardy motor vehicles that have a terrible range......and I think hybrids are a complete POS 

1 hour ago, driver52 said:

who is to say what is genuinely needed? The only certainty is the world runs on propaganda; if not why are there so many fat eejits in the west? lol

We need to consume less and an EV is pants if you live in the middle of nowhere.....whatever happened to keeping a 15 year old Peugeot running? I guess they were too lightweight for the fatties eh ????

Who knows? Well, people can make an educated guess. The key is critical thinking which helps to sort evidence from propaganda.

Cars and all products have a 3 phaseife span. Making, usage and recycling.. Just using a product for a long time doesn't necessary help the situation as they tend to contribute more to climate change whilst in use and are less surabke for recycling after that 

18 minutes ago, driver52 said:

there aren't any 'independent experts' though! They're all funded/bribed by someone with a VI! I agree that the oil industry has created massive problems...like when they decided to destroy the rail networks in Europe cos it was more profitable to have everything on the roads......

From a moral view I agree big oil sux ass BUT from an investment perspective they're going to make plenty of moolah over the next few years.....mainly cos this 'climate change' is a load o <deleted> when the SUN still calls all the shots ????

PS I love technology, I wish we'd concentrate more on ebikes rather than lardy motor vehicles that have a terrible range......and I think hybrids are a complete POS 

Well I don't share your idea that it's all a big conspiracy driven by bribery and corruption if that's what you're saying. The opinion of the experts is worldwide. Anyway, this thread isn't the place for that. it's about "EVs of all sort" ????

 

Sure, the big players will make money. I'm not advocating the dismantling of capitalism 555. Though I'd be happier if the rewards were distributed more equitably.

 

PS. I worked for a major management consultancy back  in the 90s as a data science project manager. We had a big hush hush project for one of the leading worldwide tobacco firms. Non disclosure agreements and all that. NDAs are common in management consultancy of course, but the locked doors on this project were a first!

 

Needless to say the firm was being paid big bucks to present the data in the least bad light for big tobacco. It's clear that's what big oil has been doing for a while now.

 

But the cat's out of the bag.

 

Bye for today. Got to get back to real life.

 

 

 

21 hours ago, seedy said:

https://financialpost.com/diane-francis/diane-francis-the-problem-with-electric-cars

“Subsidies to make EVs cheaper are not going to cut all that much CO2, according to the IEA,” Lomborg said. “This uses tons of financial resources to allow rich people to virtue signal: 75 per cent of all subsidiaries to green energy are given to the richest quarter of all people for EVs and solar panels.”

I never understand all this focus on recent and small subsidies for EVs and green technologies yet people conveniently forget that green subsidies are dwarfed by subsidies for fossil fuels and that fossil fuel subsidies have been going for decades

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/06/fossil-fuel-industry-subsidies-of-11m-dollars-a-minute-imf-finds

 

 

 

Nissan UK

"Sunderland plant to play key role as carmaker says it will introduce 23 ‘electrified’ models by 2030"

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/29/nissan-invest-electric-cars-sunderland-plant

39 minutes ago, blackprince said:

 

Nissan UK

"Sunderland plant to play key role as carmaker says it will introduce 23 ‘electrified’ models by 2030"

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/29/nissan-invest-electric-cars-sunderland-plant

Sunderland will have the same problems as any manufacturer in UK and that is access to both market and suppliers.

A return of the English car industry ??? 555

On 10/3/2021 at 10:07 PM, bangon04 said:

seems to be exactly the opposite in the UK at the moment... used car prices are climbing......

There seems to be a temptation to try to dichotomise the issue.

The changeover to ekectric is far more complicated than just electric good/fossil fuel bad.

As for the UK second hand car market, a lot of that is down to Brexit. Supplies of new cars has been restricted world wide but exacerbated in UK by borders and logistics caused by Brexit . Vehicles affected are "nearly new"  vehicles as people look round for good replacements for their older vehicles.

It is also worth bearing in mind that in poorer countries second hand vehicles maintain a much higher value than in rich countries.

11 minutes ago, seedy said:

A return of the English car industry ??? 555

Not sure what you are referring to... do you mean "car" or "motor" industry. Return from what, when, where?

22 minutes ago, seedy said:

A return of the English car industry ??? 555

My post is about Nissan UK's plans, that's all.

 

I'll remind you yet again this thread is "EVs of all kinds". Feel free to open your own thread on EV v ICE.

 

But in reply to your off topic "post":

 

In the 1950s the UK was the 2nd largest car manufacturer in the world, and the largest exporter, but of course things change. Detroit knows all about that.

 

I posted an analysis of the EV market future a few days ago, which shows the US is set to be eclipsed by China, and on current trends will lag  behind the EU and China in core EV technologies.

 

And China is already the largest car market, and by far the largest EV market.

 

What I have found with EV deniers is that they to be nationalistic and backward looking. Clinging to past glories. In the US usually MAGA boys with a mindest from the 1950s.

3 minutes ago, blackprince said:

My post is about Nissan UK's plans, that's all.

 

I'll remind you yet again this thread is "EVs of all kinds". Feel free to open your own thread on EV v ICE.

 

But in reply to your off topic "post":

 

In the 1950s the UK was the 2nd largest car manufacturer in the world, and the largest exporter, but of course things change. Detroit knows all about that.

 

I posted an analysis of the EV market future a few days ago, which shows the US is set to be eclipsed by China, and on current trends will lag  behind the EU and China in core EV technologies.

 

And China is already the largest car market, and by far the largest EV market.

 

What I have found with EV deniers is that they to be nationalistic and backward looking. Clinging to past glories. In the US usually MAGA boys with a mindest from the 1950s.

People don't realise that in 2015, the Britsh motor industry was the biggest it's  ever been.  Any shrinkage is now caused by closures and moving of production.

This will apply for EVs as well as they will have the same supply and market access problems.

The 2 and 4 wheel evolution of course will mainly end up electric. In a bit over 100 years we have gone from steam/coal, to fluid/petrol/diesel combustion engines to electric. That's the/our future.

I am really glad I grew up through the piston engine era, and no, not the steam. ????

2 minutes ago, blackprince said:

What I have found with EV deniers is that they to be nationalistic and backward looking. Clinging to past glories. In the US usually XXXX???? boys with a mindest from the 1950s.

Never understood that nationalism thing.  Especially the expats here or anywhere ... as if home country was so great ...  begs the question, why aren't you there.

 

 

6 minutes ago, transam said:

The 2 and 4 wheel evolution of course will mainly end up electric. In a bit over 100 years we have gone from steam/coal, to fluid/petrol/diesel combustion engines to electric. That's the/our future.

I am really glad I grew up through the piston engine era, and no, not the steam. ????

Personally, I think I may have preferred sail and horseback ???? but with internet of course!

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Never understood that nationalism thing.  Especially the expats here or anywhere ... as if home country was so great ...  begs the question, why aren't you there.

 

 

We don't ask such revealing questions - as any such truths and hypocritical/contradictory mindsets might hit home. 

For the Easy Riders, I'm sure there are quite a few here, and I know I'm not alone in being old enough to have seen the movie when it was first released.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2021/nov/28/easy-rider-well-miss-the-roar-but-electric-motorbikes-cant-kill-our-road-romance

Just now, blackprince said:

For the Easy Riders, I'm sure there are quite a few here, and I know I'm not alone in being old enough to have seen the movie when it was first released, even though I still haven't mastered the motorbike myself.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2021/nov/28/easy-rider-well-miss-the-roar-but-electric-motorbikes-cant-kill-our-road-romance

 

 

2 hours ago, blackprince said:

I'll remind you yet again this thread is "EVs of all kinds". Feel free to open your own thread on EV v ICE.

Is this the blackprince forum ? Didn't think so.

I replied to the post re: sunderland

FAH

 

On 11/28/2021 at 3:06 PM, bojo said:

..........................................and a very interesting BBC investigative reporting franchise, Panorama (this episode highlighting lithium iron mining in the DRC for Tesla) a few days ago available on the BBC iplayer for those with a vpn in the KIngdom..............

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0011wn5/panorama-the-electric-car-revolution-winners-and-losers

Are you sure that wasn't cobalt mining in the DRC?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2021/07/27/considering-an-electric-car-review-the-risks-and-learn-how-to-stay-safe/

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Are you sure that wasn't cobalt mining in the DRC?

That's the one........... slip of the keys..!!

 

Williams explained what happened to Jim’s B-Class EV:

It’s a Tesla-related design problem. The inductive motor eats up the bearings.

The power is going through the field, which goes to the rotor which makes it spin, but a whole lot of that power is going through the bearings because it’s a conductive path to get between the field and the rotor. If you can imagine that much electrical energy constantly going through those poor metal bearings, they start to pit the bearings and the bearing races, and then, of course, the bearings fail.

Electromagnetic energy needs someplace to go, so it needs a discharge path. There’s a discharge charge path on the motor, but it’s pretty inadequate.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/12/when-an-out-of-warranty-ev-fails-who-you-gonna-call/

9 minutes ago, seedy said:

 

Williams explained what happened to Jim’s B-Class EV:

https://electrek.co/2020/06/12/when-an-out-of-warranty-ev-fails-who-you-gonna-call/

You must really hate EVs a lot to trawl the net looking for this kind of stuff. That's up to you, but you are cherry picking quotes to suit your agenda, and that must be corrected.

 

The article you link to states:

 

"But Williams was able to get the vehicle running in 15 minutes with inexpensive parts on his shelf."

 

"Williams said that he is “actively working” to set up franchises, train them on EV repair, and provide support of deep-level expertise and parts as necessary. What I see in Williams’ plan is the beginning of a nationwide network of independent electric-vehicle repair specialists that needs to develop for the burgeoning EV world."

 

"I [Williams] helped Jim think through his decision about getting an EV in late 2014. There weren’t many choices at the time. Ultimately, he was swayed by the style and comfort of the B-Class powered by a Tesla powertrain."

 

In other words Williams is an advocate of EVs.

 

In summary - ICEs have spent 100 years hammering out their flaws, while EVs are at the beginning of their technology cycle.

I thought this graphic might be useful - it's the standard marketing acceptance/marketing penetration curve for new technologies. It can be applied to anything, including EVs.

 

Developed nations are now mainly in the Early Adopters or Early Majority stage of EV acceptance.

 

 

38 minutes ago, blackprince said:

You must really hate EVs a lot

I do not hate EV's.

I put forward an alternate viewpoint to the 'Savior of the World' BS spouted by others.

I read the article - why would I post something I have not read and understood.

 

40 minutes ago, blackprince said:

"Williams said that he is “actively working”

Another 'In Development, soon to be released, in the future' post.

How about when it becomes real ? Then you can post about it.

Until that time, preface all these stories with 'Once Upon a Time ...'

because until they are real, that is just what they are - Fairy Tales