Udon police arrest Swiss expat who killed armed intruder at his home

[Meat Pie 47]

8 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Amazing Thailand.  Arrest the expat homeowner for defending himself.  Let the world know about this.

Not only in Thailand it happens in Australia as well

[wadman]

34 minutes ago, bbko said:

Of course I'm aware, but if the Thai man had little to no money in the bank or was facing bills he couldn't pay,  it would make the Swiss man's story of the break-in and saying "Money! Money!" a lot more believable....right?

And if the Thai man had enough money in the bank and able to pay his bills, it would be cause to question the "Money! Money!" demand...right? 

The story as told by the Swiss was that some random Thai showed up at his house demanding money. The Swiss makes no mention that he knows the guy. The guy is pointing a gun at his head, and says: "money, money". You would think that the reasonable thing to do would be to give him 500, 1000, 2000 baht, something along those lines. 

 

But instead, the Swiss chose to lunge at the gun, and engage him in a life and death battle... Somehow that doesn't ring true either. 

[pegman]

10 minutes ago, wadman said:

The story as told by the Swiss was that some random Thai showed up at his house demanding money. The Swiss makes no mention that he knows the guy. The guy is pointing a gun at his head, and says: "money, money". You would think that the reasonable thing to do would be to give him 500, 1000, 2000 baht, something along those lines. 

 

But instead, the Swiss chose to lunge at the gun, and engage him in a life and death battle... Somehow that doesn't ring true either. 

Lots of loose ends with the Swiss guy's story. Let's see if the BiB can unravel it all. 

[Puccini]

3 hours ago, wadman said:

...You would think that the reasonable thing to do would be to give him 500, 1000, 2000 baht, something along those lines...

I don't how easy it would be for me to stay calm and work out "the reasonable thing to do" when faced by an intruder pointing a gun at me. It's exiting to see such scenario in detective stories on television but have no idea how I might react in such a situation.

[Gecko123]

Interesting tidbits gleaned from Thai language press reports...

 

...Swiss guy out on 300,000 baht bail

...wife had been out that night drinking, had a headache, went to bed

...guy lay tied up for "almost an hour" before police arrived, Swiss guy and wife assumed he was unconscious while awaiting arrival of police

...neighbors describe Rudolph as "nice man," who everybody knew, speaks Thai but didn't say much to people beyond friendly greetings

...neighbors expressing sympathy for Swiss guy's ordeal

...mother of deceased Thai guy doesn't believe her son was there to commit robbery. Describes son as guy who liked to drink, party (pai thiaw) and had a lot of friends.

 

Below video has an updated re-enactment which is more detailed, and also has footage of Swiss guy talking to media in English:

 

 

[Gandtee]

16 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Interesting tidbits gleaned from Thai language press reports...

 

...Swiss guy out on 300,000 baht bail

...wife had been out that night drinking, had a headache, went to bed

...guy lay tied up for "almost an hour" before police arrived, Swiss guy and wife assumed he was unconscious while awaiting arrival of police

...neighbors describe Rudolph as "nice man," who everybody knew, speaks Thai but didn't say much to people beyond friendly greetings

...neighbors expressing sympathy for Swiss guy's ordeal

...mother of deceased Thai guy doesn't believe her son was there to commit robbery. Describes son as guy who liked to drink, party (pai thiaw) and had a lot of friends.

 

Below video has an updated re-enactment which is more detailed, and also has footage of Swiss guy talking to media in English:

 

 

So now we know exactly what happened according to the TV coverage and the computerized enactment. Open and shut case! Move on. Nothing to see here.  I liked the falang's throw. What do you call that? A Swiss roll????? 

[Gecko123]

Sections of Thai Penal Code which applies to right of self-defense:

 

Section 67

Any person shall not be punished for committing any offence on account of necessity:

1. When such person is under compulsion or under the influence of a force such that such person cannot avoid or resist; or
2. When such person acts in order to make himself or another person to escape from an imminent danger which could not be avoided by any other means, and which such person did not cause to exist through his own fault. Provided that no more is done than is reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

 

Section 68

Any person committing any act for defending his own right or other person's right in order to except from a danger arising out of violence tortuous to the law and such danger to be imminent, if reasonably having committed under the circumstance, such act is a lawful defense, and such person shall not have a guilt.

 

Section 69

In the cases as provided in Sections 67 and 68, if the act committed is in excess of what is reasonable under the circumstances or in excess of what is necessary, or in excess of what is necessary for the defense, the Court may inflict less punishment to any extent than that provided by the law for such offence. But, if such act occurs out of excitement, fright or fear, the Court may not inflict any punishment at all.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Gecko123

[jerrymahoney]

Sounds like, though the Swiss gent may be in the clear, his wife maybe not so -- as noted above, why rob a house where a known occupant of the house could readily identify the perp.

[recom273]

So on Thai TV today, the mother of the home invader claims he was carrying a large amount of cash from a recent land sale - He was going to show it to the westerners wife - but its missing now.  

Edited October 6, 2021 by recom273

[EVENKEEL]

John Forking Wick he is. He got very enthusiastic during the reenactment.  

[Gecko123]

1 hour ago, recom273 said:

So on Thai TV today, the mother of the home invader claims he was carrying a large amount of cash from a recent land sale - He was going to show it to the westerners wife - but its missing now.  

Per the video I posted above, the Thai guy's family (his mother and his former wife) were fully aware of the Thai guy's infatuation with the Swiss guy's wife. (Note: it's unclear whether they're calling her his former wife because he previously divorced her, or because he's now dead). They're alleging that the Thai guy sold 12 head of cattle over time for a total of 522,000 baht and gave 488,000 of it to the Swiss guy's wife and only 40,000 to the Thai guy's wife. It sounds like the mother and wife had a detailed knowledge of the Thai guy's interactions with the Swiss guy's wife, and they're calling on her to be more truthful. The mother's saying that she warned her son over and over about his involvement with her but that he was madly in love with her and wouldn't listen. It sounds like they're super <deleted> because, according to them, the Swiss guy's wife received all this money from the Thai guy and now he - a key provider - is dead.

 

I'm guessing that there's going to be tremendous pressure from the Thai guy's family for the Swiss guy's wife to reimburse the money they allege she received from him. In other words, even though the Swiss guy was probably totally in the dark about all of this Peyton Place intrigue, and likely lawfully defended himself, he's still probably going to have to shell out a substantial amount of money one way or another. He's either going to have to negotiate a hefty settlement with the Thai guy's family to clean up the mess his wife made, and/or divorce his wife for infidelity and walk away from all of his real property in Udon Thani. What a [expletive deleted] deal for the Swiss guy. My heart really goes out to him.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Gecko123

[Artisi]

12 hours ago, wadman said:

The story as told by the Swiss was that some random Thai showed up at his house demanding money. The Swiss makes no mention that he knows the guy. The guy is pointing a gun at his head, and says: "money, money". You would think that the reasonable thing to do would be to give him 500, 1000, 2000 baht, something along those lines. 

 

But instead, the Swiss chose to lunge at the gun, and engage him in a life and death battle... Somehow that doesn't ring true either. 

Seems the death  battle paid off for the gun totting intruder.... 

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[Lampang2]

On 10/4/2021 at 12:59 PM, EVENKEEL said:

You're right he (the Swiss) should have traded her in long ago.

turns out I was right, not a big surprise since this is a classic scheme.

 

he will be much better of with someone his own age bracket, that is correct.

 

[Dont confuse me]

On 10/4/2021 at 2:48 PM, Dont confuse me said:

Geezzzz it's a theory...some of you guys out there just need to get a life!

https://www.chiangraitimes.com/crime-chiang-rai-thailand/thai-wife-says-murdered-pensioner-was-dying-anyway/

 

The gentleman concerned was a friend! This had something to do with my theory.

But Geezzzzz obviously your so worldly that you feel you have to engage in inane comments of little or no value.

Geezzz have you read the update on the story?

[milys]

On 10/4/2021 at 10:43 AM, Destiny1990 said:

She looks disappointed maybe the wrong outcome of the fight? The Swiss guy should be given a statue and his wife the be questioned about her relationship with the intruder. So why the European is arrested?

Possibly because he killed a man and that the police know more than the press.

[connda]

On 10/5/2021 at 3:55 PM, Gecko123 said:

The revolver was fully loaded...

 

I'm starting to wonder if the Thai guy wasn't there to kill the Swiss guy in order to get him out of the way. Probably with the wife's participation. Here's my reasoning:

Well yeah....me too.

[connda]

On 10/6/2021 at 8:34 AM, Gecko123 said:

Interesting tidbits gleaned from Thai language press reports...

 

...Swiss guy out on 300,000 baht bail

...wife had been out that night drinking, had a headache, went to bed

...guy lay tied up for "almost an hour" before police arrived, Swiss guy and wife assumed he was unconscious while awaiting arrival of police

...neighbors describe Rudolph as "nice man," who everybody knew, speaks Thai but didn't say much to people beyond friendly greetings

...neighbors expressing sympathy for Swiss guy's ordeal

...mother of deceased Thai guy doesn't believe her son was there to commit robbery. Describes son as guy who liked to drink, party (pai thiaw) and had a lot of friends.

 

Below video has an updated re-enactment which is more detailed, and also has footage of Swiss guy talking to media in English:

 

 

Opss!  If the reenactment is correct?  Once the Swiss guy tossed the gun over the fence it was a fist fight.  Kill someone in a fist fight espcially outside of your home.  I've seen Thai and Thai "self-defense" shooting that happened in the yard and the defender ended up in jail.  Thai law - go figure.  Kill a guy without a weapon in the vicinity?  Well, that's manslaughter.  Maybe murder although that implies intent.  But - I don't know the Thai judicial system.  Who knows now?  What a cluster-foxtrot.  I feel for the guy. 

My wife is adamant about me not going outside to investigate at night.  Just let the dogs do the dirty work as we have a lot of territorial dogs and significant barbed-wire fence.  One way or another you'd get torn up coming over.  If someone breaks into the house? Well - I could then be in the Swiss guys position. I would never want to be in that position.  But - if I need to protect my home and property I'd try my best to be inside the house.  Legally is seems to make a difference.  Time will tell on this one. 
I feel for the Swiss guy.  This sucks.

Edited October 7, 2021 by connda

[connda]

Ask my wife about this today and it seems Thais are as baffled on this as we are. 

Perhaps this time around we just let the cops figure it all out.

[mikebike]

11 minutes ago, connda said:

if I need to protect my home and property

Home and property mean very little. Everything I own that is worth anything is well insured.

 

What amazes me is apparently you feel the need to defend your stuff but not your loved ones. ????

Edited October 7, 2021 by mikebike

[Gecko123]

11 minutes ago, connda said:

Ask my wife about this today and it seems Thais are as baffled on this as we are. 

I've followed crime news in the US, France, and Thailand for decades, and this is one of the most intriguing mystery-shrouded cases I can recall. I think it is going to be very difficult to get to the bottom of what motivated Nit to come to the house that night, and to what extent Lak was involved.

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Gecko123

[mikebike]

27 minutes ago, connda said:

if I need to protect my home and property

Home and property mean very little. Everything I own that is worth anything is well insured.

 

What amazes me is apparently you feel the need to defend your stuff but not your loved ones. ????

Edited October 7, 2021 by mikebike

[EVENKEEL]

Whatever happens the Swiss will be paying out money is get out of this one. Hope he has enough money to just disappear from the area once this is over. 

[HappyGoLuckyLife]

GIVE ALL THE CONSPIRACY THEORIST A CIGAR!!! Listen to the latest from the Thaiger.

 

Article: Pattaya News - Family members of Thai man who was killed by Swiss national in Udon Thani claim motive was affair not money - The Pattaya News

 

Video:

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by HappyGoLuckyLife
To add article

[inThailand]

As others have said, it appears the Swiss guy is not going to fare well, no matter what the truth is. One fact seems certain, his wife has been messing around for years with the Thai guy. In my book, his wife is no better than the dead man, but she will probably be the one coming out on top. TIT! 

Edited October 7, 2021 by inThailand

[Artisi]

9 hours ago, HappyGoLuckyLife said:

GIVE ALL THE CONSPIRACY THEORIST A CIGAR!!! Listen to the latest from the Thaiger.

 

Article: Pattaya News - Family members of Thai man who was killed by Swiss national in Udon Thani claim motive was affair not money - The Pattaya News

 

Video:

 

Off to see the girlfriend with a loaded firearm and with the husband at home, that was sure to be an amicable outcome. 

[balo]

I hope the Swiss man is rich and wealthy.  Because this will cost him a lot of money.  

[mac1970]

On 10/4/2021 at 6:09 AM, seajae said:

when you are attacked in your own home with a gun weilding robber you are entitled to defend yourself, in any other country it would be recognised as self defence, if a thai had done it, it would also be looked at as self defence but because a farang that was 10 years older than the robber did it he is being charged, really shows the anti farang views/laws they have here. 

Yeah, yes and no. Living in western, modern and great country where robber has rights too. So killing robber causes you probation or jail back here, which does not matter if its life threatening situation or not. Like we say criminals have more rights than ordinary people and police only job is cleaning bodies afterwards. Weird thinking that all people must have equal rights, whatever they are bad individuals or good. So who is abusing the system... Hard to make "world is happy place and we need to respect everyone" people to understand that they are cause for these problems. 

[Hamus Yaigh]

On 10/4/2021 at 4:57 PM, NanLaew said:

When my ex- pulled a gun on me, jammed it in my temple and pulled the trigger whereupon it jammed, I grabbed it and it went out of the upstairs bedroom window, over the wall and into the neighbor's backyard wilderness.

 

Then I tied her up to stop her going back downstairs to get her usual implement, the kitchen knife.

 

YMMV

I guess YMMV. For most of us, besides this Swiss dude, I'd say this is not the norm. Depends how you pick 'em tho I guess.

[Dogmatix]

On 10/4/2021 at 11:40 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Wife had been out... 3 sheets to the wind (drunk), got home slept, deep sleep...   I know a few people who would’ve slept through a gun-shot !!.....  there are times I probably would have.

 

That said, if she was so ‘pished’ I wonder how she handled the police...  perhaps the shock sobered her up a lot.

 

Also, what type of gun was it ??.... it if was a 22 with crappy old rounds it may not have been exceptionally loud etc.

 

Edit: It doesn’t look like a 22...  (image taken from the video below).

 

 

 

It’s a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver. Bog standard 4” model without adjustable sights that used to issued to police forces all over the world. It is fairly old because they stopped producing the black ones in early 2000s and now only produce them in stainless. The .38 rounds are fairly loud and they look like full power round nosed rounds. About as loud as a 9mm round.