Does a LT Girlfriend have property rights when we split - it's time

[JoeBloe]

Mod: Move if required.

I have been with my GF 10+ years. It's a long story, but basically the question is;

* when I split from her, does she have any legal avenue for extracting compensation for time spent.

We are not married, but she lives unregistered in my condo in Bangkok and I pay ALL the expenses. I spend about 6 months a year there and we spend a few months a year traveling on top of that. Otherwise she is at the condo with her now no so young child. She doesn't save, she only spends, so she has no bank balance to "show" for the part of her life shared with me, just experience, clothes, some jewellery and a condo full of "stuff". She wants more money constantly.  Bizarrely, she's never set foot in a bar or "worked", but she has now developed the same "whore mentality" that equates money with sex (and says it out loud) - I blame the Thai internet forums and chat rooms for that development.

Anyway, when the <deleted> hits the fan, it will all devolve into a "x time spent = $y" event. I just need to know if I'll need to mount a defence or just make an offer. I'm willing to make an reasonable offer to keep her going while she arranges a new mark.



 

 

[tonray]

There is no common law marriage or 'palimony' in Thailand. What about this child ? Is it yours ?

[scubascuba3]

They expect to get the motorbike, pickup, house, maybe condo too, girls talk and hear what others got

[JoeBloe]

Not mine, but I am the only dad he's ever known. I send him to a decent school.

I am not trying to dump her on the street. I didn't find her there and she would have no idea how to survive there - that's not what this question is about.

[MRToMRT]

30 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

but she has now developed the same "whore mentality" that equates money with sex (and says it out loud) - I blame the Thai internet forums and chat rooms for that development.

I experienced that, as well, before chats rooms existed. If we were in a shop she would not ask for money just rub her fingers together at me. Hope you can get out OK, its going to be a drama but I sense you know that already. Best of luck.

[JoeBloe]

15 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

They expect to get the motorbike, pickup, house, maybe condo too, girls talk and hear what others got

I didn't ask what they expect.

We live in a middle class Thai condo & neighbourhood and the "girls" to whom you refer don't live anywhere around here. My GF doesn't look like them, dress like them, talk like them or behave like them and would be unlikely to talk to them at all even if they entered our surroundings.

[JoeBloe]

3 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

I experienced that, as well, before chats rooms existed. If we were in a shop she would not ask for money just rub her fingers together at me. Hope you can get out OK, its going to be a drama but I sense you know that already. Best of luck.

The drama will be immense, for clinical reasons. Pent up psychological trauma from long before I was in the frame that has consumed her soul and mind from the inside. They all come with baggage.

This is not because I don't care for her or the boy, but I need to get out before it gets ugly.

[EricTh]

@JoeBloe

 

No, there is no legal basis for your gf to claim anything from you since you both are not married.

 

It's a personal decision whether you want to give anything to her at all. After giving her monthly expenses every month for the past 10 years, you have done enough.

 

It's time she looked for her own job and rely on herself.

 

Since the child is from her previous marriage, you don't have any responsibility towards the child or her.

Edited October 16, 2021 by EricTh

[bunnydrops]

Does she work? If you can afford it, move out and let her stay there. I think you will still feel like you want to continue to pay for the boys education. Give her the least amount of money to survive. Maybe she would take a cash amount. That way you would not be paying for ever.

[JoeBloe]

1 minute ago, EricTh said:

@JoeBloe

...

It's time she looked for her own job and rely on herself. The child must be from her previous marriage?

She's was a young widow when I met her.

I never gave her a stipend. Just money for to live for the two of them when I wasn't there and I paid everything when we're together. She only knows how to spend money, not save it.

She will now want a free ride for the rest of her life.

[bunnydrops]

5 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

She's was a young widow when I met her.

I never gave her a stipend. Just money for to live for the two of them when I wasn't there and I paid everything when we're together. She only knows how to spend money, not save it.

She will now want a free ride for the rest of her life.

Set a time limit. Thai families mostly do a good job of caring for their own.

[WEBBYB808]

1 hour ago, JoeBloe said:

I didn't ask what they expect.

We live in a middle class Thai condo & neighbourhood and the "girls" to whom you refer don't live anywhere around here. My GF doesn't look like them, dress like them, talk like them or behave like them and would be unlikely to talk to them at all even if they entered our surroundings.

She may not walk, talk or look like a duck, but she's turned into one.  Even middle class or women brought up respectable can turn into a bad seed.  If shes turned into a lazy do nothing  but mooch then she isnt  any better than a no class being.  Tough love is an option,  and no you owe her nothing, but if you want to change her, which may be impossible,  then get creative.  Sex is available  anywhere, so it should be impossible  for her to use as a tool.  She clearly isnt thinking of her soon if shes getting tactful on taking advantage of you.

[mtls2005]

1 hour ago, JoeBloe said:

but I need to get out before it gets ugly.

 

You need a sound exit strategy as it will get very ugly, like scorched-earth ugly.

 

And if she asks for an extra 5,000 baht be careful; keep an eye out for her "brother".

 

I'd also contact a lawyer for advice re: 

 

2 hours ago, JoeBloe said:

does she have any legal avenue for extracting compensation for time spent.

as there may be some implied responsibility, perhaps not strictly codified in law, but more of a social expectation. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pravda]

2 hours ago, JoeBloe said:

I blame the Thai internet forums and chat rooms for that development.

 

You seem like a nice guy, but lets be fair, people like you are also the big part of the problem. They chat and gossip about Western guys who come here and support lazy Thai women. 

 

You don't owe her anything by law. If you want to take care of her kid, take him to the bank and open a joint savings account for him or something that the lazy woman can't touch

Edited October 17, 2021 by Pravda

[Hummin]

The expectios in Thai society is there no matter who you are, where you come from, that the "wife" getting paid. We meet that question all the time from friends and family how much I pay her, no matter I take care of her, built on her land, and have everything she needs. Even having her family on our payroll for work also. 

 

No matter falang or thai, this is in their culture, even some falangs deny it, and say thats not their experience, and it can also be true. 

 

You just have to deal with your own conscience, and do what you feel you need to do without feeling guilty. We are all different in here, and I know those who would have kicked them out, and sent them back to where they came from, and those who would support them until they had enough of all the <deleted> that comes along with it. 

 

Have you talked with her about it, and what she thinking, and what she will do, where she go? Make a deal with her you and her can live with. First of all you put her there waiting for you without a plan if deleted hit the fan. 

 

If she have family, thats where she most likely end up. How old is her kid? What about the father? Poor family or ? 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Hummin

[blackcab]

Q: Does a LT Girlfriend have property rights when we split?

 

A: None at all. Absolutely zero.

 

As already stated, she also has no right to any cash settlement from you for maintenance for herself or for her child for any reason. You do not have to pay a one-off settlement and you do not have to pay any ongoing sums of money for any reason at all.

[Gsxrnz]

She has no lawful financial claim on you whatsoever. Whatever else you decide to offer her privately is up to you.

 

Hide the knives.

[bkk6060]

Give her one million baht and say goodbye.

Please report back.  Good luck.

 

[ThailandRyan]

When she goes out for the day with the the child change the locks, put all of her stuff out the door, and give her a stipend to cover start-up costs elsewhere if you can afford it.  If not it is ultimately up to you.  She can always go home to her mother and father if she has one, but at the end of the day if she is contemplating this happening she may already be shopping on-line for a new paramour.  

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, JoeBloe said:

I didn't ask what they expect.

We live in a middle class Thai condo & neighbourhood and the "girls" to whom you refer don't live anywhere around here. My GF doesn't look like them, dress like them, talk like them or behave like them and would be unlikely to talk to them at all even if they entered our surroundings.

the way you describe is a sex worker, so expect she does talk to other people, not just you

[steven100]

As others have said,  legally she doesn't / isn't entitled to any compensation.

Tell her you've had enough, it's not working and you want her to leave. Tell her you'd like to pay for the kids education ( send some monthly to cover school fees, books etc ..)  

Tell her you'd like to set her up in a room somewhere (3k-4k) a month and you'll pay for 3 months rent (pay direct to the landlord, not her)

And after that she's on her own .....  that's it.      imo

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, JoeBloe said:

@JoeBloe

Women in Thailand do not have rights regards to money and property solely belonging to you if you are not married.

After 10 years of part time Thailand can't believe you didn't know that but I don't know all Thai laws relating to live in partners in separation disputes.

There is land squatter's rights in Thailand where a person for an uninterrupted period of ten years openly possessed land they acquire ownership.

The fact she is Thai and you are not she may have a case if she is intelligent enough to get a lawyer.

 

You have tell her to leave obviously what trouble you encounter I do not know maybe then employ somebody or lawyer to make sure she vacant's the Condo.and she will have to go home with her child to where she lived before.

 

What compensation you give her I would think is whatever she finds financially her home situation will be when she returns home.

After 10 years surely you feel some morale obligation towards her whatever she has become during your absence.

Frankly I just only feel for the victim in your breakup decision, the child.

 

  

[JoeBloe]

Thanks folks.

It is as I had expected from a legal standpoint, up to my own internal model of the world what I am willing to offer.

Some more of the story.

Her father is dead (I paid a big lump of his funeral) and she is estranged from her family. As far as I can ascertain, this is between her and her mother.  Oldest daughters v. mothers is a thing in all cultures.

During my dealings with the family I have managed to secure the remaining part of the family farm for my GF plus some another small piece of land etc.. Every time the family needed money and I was expected to contribute, I traded a chanot for it, rather than straight charity. I offered to pay a large wad the other day to zero the family debt for the other part of the farm, but they apparently already agreed to sell it. Thai rural families are easy pray for loan sharks and banks. I gain no benefit for this, but I do not doubt my GF (and subsequently her son) would have ended with nothing without my intervention, so my contribution insured some of her farm stayed in family (her) hands. From my point of view, this is me giving her money.

My deal with her explicitly excluded marriage, it was that I would provide for everything incl. the boy's education and her only job was to be a full-time mother and a faithful partner. She did a pretty good job on the mother front and since she is a great cook, they both eat well. I have been faithful and kept everyone under my roof and given them a cosmopolitan lifestyle when we are outside Thailand.

One issue now appears to be she feels inferior to other Thai women because she doesn't have an expensive watch, lots of jewellery, a big bank balance and so on. She has developed an inferiority complex versus what she perceives other Thai woman receive from their farang partners. She has built up a massive "princess entitlement" position and she's angry about it. This is quite a new development.

I could throw gifts at her, but my experience is that she treats ear rings that cost 20 THB the same as those that cost 10,000 THB. A mistake I am not willing to make again so she can play princess around other women for a while.

There you go, a bit of pointless rambling about some of what is driving me out of my own home.  There are far deeper issues though, and there aren't solutions for those,. :(

Question: How can one reasonably hide knives from the chef?
 

[JoeBloe]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

After 10 years of part time Thailand can't believe you didn't know that but I don't know all Thai laws relating to live in partners in separation disputes.

Oh, it's far longer than that and I did know it, roughly. But Covid19 and whatever has put me outside Thailand for going on 2 years, and laws and society change. I haven't really been following this very closely as it wasn't really an issue until quite recently. My GF seems to think she does have a legal entitlement and when she's angry and screaming, says so.

 

8 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

There is land squatter's rights in Thailand where a person for an uninterrupted period of ten years openly possessed land they acquire ownership.

The fact she is Thai and you are not she may have a case if she is intelligent enough to get a lawyer.

Obviously she has the key to the condo (she lives there), but I doubt she could be classified as a squatter. Lawyers? Maybe.
 

11 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

 

After 10 years surely you feel some morale obligation towards her whatever she has become during your absence.

Frankly I just only feel for the victim in your breakup decision, the child.

I am a child of a parental divorce, so I'm not going to throw them penniless on the street. There is zero probability of that. The son will graduate High School next year and then that part is done for us all because he can make his own way, and I'll help as required.

Oh, we are not apart at the moment. They are in the same room as me now.

This has taken a few years to develop into a toxic relationship. It'll take a while to back out gracefully.
 

[JoeBloe]

4 hours ago, bunnydrops said:

Does she work? If you can afford it, move out and let her stay there. I think you will still feel like you want to continue to pay for the boys education. Give her the least amount of money to survive. Maybe she would take a cash amount. That way you would not be paying for ever.

This will be the basic model. I'd probably set up a bank account with recurring payments for x months, as long as she behaves herself, doesn't have me whacked and whatever else I need to insure for my own security.

I won't weep if she stays in the condo for as long as needed.

Edited October 17, 2021 by JoeBloe
Vocabulary

[Kwasaki]

21 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

Oh, we are not apart at the moment. They are in the same room as me now.

This has taken a few years to develop into a toxic relationship. It'll take a while to back out gracefully.
 

It's a shame for the boy but he will get over it.

Personally I would sell the condo or rent it out.

Find somewhere to live where they don't know where you are.

Keep in contact with the boy by phone only until he maybe wants to see sometimes.

[xylophone]

33 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

This will be the basic model. I'd probably set up a bank account with recurring payments for x months, as long as she behaves herself, doesn't have me whacked and whatever else I need to insure for my own security.

I won't weep if she stays in the condo for as long as needed.

I did something similar after I broke up with my ex girlfriend, and she had her young daughter who had been living with us for about six years and who I adored, so I wanted to take care of them both for as long as I could, so I did.

 

All in all I would have given her about a million baht in order to set up a small business and also various other living expenses.

 

I have unofficially adopted her/our Thai daughter and put her through high school and university and she is now studying to be a teacher, and absolutely adores her papa, much the same as I adore her.

 

Friends tell me I have been far too generous, especially when the breakup was instigated by my ex-girlfriends many weeks periods of silence toward me, but I wanted to see her/our daughter succeed, and that's what I've done, and I'm proud of it.

 

Hopefully you can do something similar for your ex GF, at least something which gives you peace of mind in as much as you can face yourself and say that you did all you could for them.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Never easy and you, like me, will probably go through some angst upon parting, but it soon passes.

[stigar]

When i finished my exgf i just told her tp move out.And she did the same day.No drama.I had give her alot and paid her kids univercity education.She asked me if i would demand things and money from her and i said no.She just moved to high north after we split.Actually she send me a msg today in messenger asking how im doing.No hard feelings.Past is past.

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, stigar said:

When i finished my exgf i just told her tp move out.And she did the same day.No drama.I had give her alot and paid her kids univercity education.She asked me if i would demand things and money from her and i said no.She just moved to high north after we split.Actually she send me a msg today in messenger asking how im doing.No hard feelings.Past is past.

It good to hear that. 

[LarrySR]

Ever watch a Thai Soap Opera TV show?

They yell and scream allot, all sorts of drama, get violent including death threats, try to get you arrested, start all kinds of nasty rumors about how you beat them, are on drugs, never took care of her and fondled the child, steal everything they can, vandalize the place, change your passwords, smash your phone, steal your passport, take the credit cards, drain the bank account and maybe slit their wrists with a dull knife or jumps off the balcony.(you pushed her of course)

Big loss of face, servicing a farang for 10 years and leave with nothing.... How stupid! Her friends and family will persuade her to take the apartment, car, bank, TAKE EVERYTHING!!

 

Well, thats going to happen to you.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by LarrySR