SURVEY: Health Insurance for foreigners -- Good idea or not?

[digger70]

It would be a very good idea to have an insurance for all expats .

Saying that It would have to be a Thai Govment affordable insurance  Because All the other Insurance  companies are a Rip off.

 The medical system in Thailand is much cheaper then in Western countries So Why are the Insurance companies Ripping us off? Greed ? 

 

[itsari]

5 hours ago, Confuscious said:

Open letter to the Government,

It is no rocket science to know that an insurance company is a company that calculate his risks and is in no way a social company to benefit anyone else than themselves.

Forcing a health insurance in people, specially people over 50 with already underlying diseases, will benefit NOBODY.

If someone in this age bracket would endup in a hospital with a severe disease, the insurance comaony will claim that this disease was "underlaying" and will not pay for the hospital costs.
Thus leaving the hospitals and Thailand with huge unpaid bills, despite of paying huge soms for that insurance.

A better and more effective system would be:
1. Appoint a GOVERMENT run health care to handle the health care for every foreigner who enter Thailand or who stays already in Thailand on a long term visa.
2. EVERY foreigner who enter Thailand or remain in Thailand would have to pay for health care insurance.
3. Foreigners living in Thailand on a Retirement Visa or a Thai spouse Visa are required to put the require 800,000/400,000 Baht into that helath care system instead of putting the funds in a Thai Bank.
This sum will gain interests which will be used for the foreigner health care system.
4. On leaving Thailand, the foreigner will receive part or the whole paid insurance, depending on the case if he/she used the health care and how much has beem spend.

This is only a guidance on how a better health care system for foreigners/tourists could be setup.

 

 

3 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Since I owned my own small consulting company I had no health insurance until age 55. At that point I sold the company and chose to work for a larger company untill I retired at 66. It provided excellent insurance and then I got Medicare and a supplemental policy and drug plan as well. I still have and pay fir them as Plan B, but have never used either for the last 6 years. I got Pacific Cross two years ago to continue my OA extensions but mainly because it's simply prudent ; that's Plan A.

My annual premium is reasonable and I can continue to be insured by them past age 75, with increasing premiums, as you say.

So, in short, I fit into none of your categories, yet have a viable situation. You overstated the difficulties.

In my personal opinion, somebody living in another country, aging and becoming more vulnerable by the day, made a serious mistake if they can't afford a few thousand a year for good coverage outside their home country. If they can't afford decent insurance they certainly can't afford medical care and they depend unfairly on a Healthcare system they didn't pay into from a government that provides only a barely useful system for its own citizens.

This may force some out, and on that we agree. Poor planning often leads to bad outcomes.

All of that said, it does seem like their could be some way to grandfather in (sorry) expats who have been here a while, own property, etc so they can use the government hospitals at rates comparable to nationals. To say that it's unfair for this to not be the case is a stretch though. Being adult means being responsible for one's self, not dependent on the largesse of your host country and its citizens. In fact, it just gives xenophobes and bigots legitimate reason to want you gone.

 

I am sure foreigners in Australia will be charged the same price for health care as a Australian citizen . 

That is the major problem here in Thailand regarding foreigners obtaining health care .

Added with the law allowing the Thai  hospitals to do that . 

Government or private 

Your post is leading in a roundabout way to if you don't like it get out .

Such as poor planning often leads to bad outcomes .

 

 

[geisha]

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

My visa card has a huge available credit that i never use. I think if you can show you have a say $15-20,000 spare on your card then you should not need insurance. I also have enough money in the bank combined with this credit excess to cover $50,000 - so exactly why do i need insurance to cover an amount i already have access to ?

 

 

Hi, not contradicting you, but I thought a gold/ platinum visa only covers you for 90 days ??
is it country depending ? I have both those cards and live in France. I’m often gone over 90 days so take out an extra insurance.

[MrMuddle]

6 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

As a 67 year old long term resident here with a home, partner, cars etc......paying outrageous taxes on cars but getting nothing back. I would go back to Europe if I hadn't invested so much on this racist country.

The government should allow all longer term (one year plus) resident to access the Thai government healthcare system for a reasonable fee instead of forcing us into the claws of these morally bankrupt private hospitals and insurance companies that charge foreigners much more than Thais.

They did, when Yingluck was in charge, but it was rescinded when the army took over.

I believe it was 70 Pounds (can't remember the Baht equivalent), and one had to pass 5 items on a health checklist, all of which were minor, very easy to get and use.

Second paragraph added in edit.

Edited November 7, 2021 by MrMuddle
additional information

[MrMuddle]

There must be many others, like me, who have enough money to pay for their healthcare, but object to paying health insurance to companies who fleece their clients, then refuse to pay up, when the time comes. I'd rather spend my money on anything else rather than health insurance.

[MRToMRT]

I have had a chequered past when it comes to health, if it were not for me having insurance I would be in a much worse financial state than I am now. 

I do seriously sympathise with those who have reached their 70s and have not taken out and maintained insurance in the past. Surely the gov can come up with something to give coverage at government hospitals (not private) for a reasonable fee for them if they are already granted along stay visa/extension.

Edited November 7, 2021 by MRToMRT

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

All the people who advocate for self funding, what figure would you call 'enough to cover anything'?

 

I had a friend who went in ICU and one night was 150K so you can imagine racking up a hefty bill in a very short amount of time....

 

The 800K mentioned by some would last only 5 days ICU, then what?

While my week at RAM, stent, plus 2 angioplasties and a “mini stroke” racked up a 411,000 baht bill. About half covered by a US policy and the test, out of my invested funds in the US. No way I am going to park 800,000 baht here when I count on my investments.

[itsari]

5 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

I have had a chequered pat when it comes to health, if it were not for me having insurance I would be in a worse financial state than I am now. 

I do seriously sympathise with those who have reached their 70s and have not taken out and maintained insurance in the past. Surely the gov can come up with something to give coverage at government hospitals (not private) for a reasonable fee for them if they are already granted along stay visa/extension.

A patronizing post 

[thailand49]

3 hours ago, Confuscious said:

For this category of foreigners, a monthly/yearly payment for health care could be levied.

But it should be a fair amount.

I agree but here is the problem with Thailand and the companies in my opinion the policies aren't

" FAIR " if they were we wouldn't be having the survey or discussion?

[HashBrownHarry]

16 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

While my week at RAM, stent, plus 2 angioplasties and a “mini stroke” racked up a 411,000 baht bill. About half covered by a US policy and the test, out of my invested funds in the US. No way I am going to park 800,000 baht here when I count on my investments.

Not quite sure what your point is here however had you had suitable insurance you would not have been 411,000 ÷ 2.

 

Hope you've made a full recovery btw.

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

Recently a friend of mine who is Thai badly broke her leg and chose to go to a prestigious private hospital.  They told her it would be 350,000 baht for her "emergency"  surgery.  She said she could not afford that and offered 200,000 baht.  They responded no but would do it for 250,000 baht.  

so, you think this is a good plan - bargaining for medical like you would in a flea market?... call me a dreamer, I would hope for a better plan... 

[Sheryl]

33 minutes ago, MrMuddle said:

They did, when Yingluck was in charge, but it was rescinded when the army took over.

I believe it was 70 Pounds (can't remember the Baht equivalent), and one had to pass 5 items on a health checklist, all of which were minor, very easy to get and use.

Second paragraph added in edit.

 

That is not quite what happened.

 

What happened was a system was introduced for migrant workers from neighboring countries, priced with comparatively young, strong manual laborers in mind.

 

As is unfortunately common here, all the announcements/directive issued for it were vaguely worded and open to multiple interpretations. In particular, said only "foreigner" and did nto specify migrant or foreigner from neighboring country. Adding to the confusion, the entity managing the system in Bangkok told callers who asked that it was open to all foreigners.

 

In most provinces, hospitals therefore began to enroll all who came forward.

 

Eventually the central Ministry caught one and issued clarification and that was the end of that. Ended before the current government came in and has nothing to do with the military junta.

 

It was never remotely feasible to enrol elderly expats at that low rate, the system would have sustained huge losses.

 

There has  periodically been talk of developing a system specifically for resident expats, which would have to have different prices for different ages since many are older. I haven't heard any mention of it for quote a while, though.

 

The easiest system to address this issue would, IMO, be to establish a system allowing foreigners to access government hospitals for accidents and emergencies only,  for a set fee levied on entry to the country or on extension of a long stay visa. (It would have to be limited to accidents and emergencies or else the country would be flooded with people seeking to have their cataract surgery, hernia repairs and the like done on the cheap - especially from nearby countries in the region). Those wanting to use private hospitals, and those wanting other than emergency care, would either pay out of pocket or have private insurance, up to them, but at least government hospitals -- which are the ones that have been losing money-- would be protected.

 

[wwest5829]

11 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Not quite sure what your point is here however had you had suitable insurance you would not have been 411,000 ÷ 2.

 

Hope you've made a full recovery btw.

“Knock on wood”, all appears well. at 74, having had 5 by-passes in 2005, plus the 2015 heart attack addressed in the post there is no way I can qualify for affordable insurance covering me. The required current insurance (O-A Visa) is just an added useless cost. Figure the cost of insurance over my decade here and … I think I am better off carrying on until I can switch to an “O” Visa.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, HashBrownHarry said:

I would not wish to join the Thai healthcare for all the T in China - no thanks.

 

Have you seen Thai people queue outside clinics to get seen ( mostly at weekends ), sitting on plastic stools on the street waiting hours to be seen? This happens in rural Thailand every single weekend. Would you accept doing that? coz that's what the government social security offers.......

You are correct about the clinics in rural Thailand but the odd times I use the local hospital (and pay cash for the treatment) I usually get there around 11am and they queues have almost gone. I get to see an English speaking doctor every time, and yes, they do have them even in the rural areas.

 

I pay more than Thais but the price is still quite reasonable.

 

I have signed a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) to avoid horrendous bills and at 77 I have had a great life and in signing the DNR I hope that my wife will be financially better off when I die.

[jerrymahoney]

4 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

4 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

In an emergency situation, how is the hospital supposed to know all that?

my wife would deal with it. she's richer than me

Must be nice to be inseparable.

[brucec64]

6 hours ago, jesimps said:

I voted for #3. I'm convinced that I can cover any eventuality by self insuring, I've paid cash for the few minor treatments I've had over the 15 years I've been here.  However, I'm 77 and even if I could find someone to insure me, my savings wouldn't last too long if I had to part with premiums of 100000+ every year.  Unless they make mandatory insurance a requirement of the non o retirement visa, the only way I'll be leaving here is as smoke up the wat chimney.

What's your game plan for a 500+k bypass surgery if 100k is going to break the bank? What if you are in a serious car/motorbike accident requiring weeks or months of hospital care?

 

I had a close friend (Thai) involved in a motorcycle accident where another motorcycle drove over him and crushed his hips. Multiple surgeries and 3 months in hospital came to 3m baht - and that was Thai prices. I upped my very good Aetna (formerly Bupa) from 2 to 5m after that.

[HashBrownHarry]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

You are correct about the clinics in rural Thailand but the odd times I use the local hospital (and pay cash for the treatment) I usually get there around 11am and they queues have almost gone. I get to see an English speaking doctor every time, and yes, they do have them even in the rural areas.

 

I pay more than Thais but the price is still quite reasonable.

 

I have signed a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) to avoid horrendous bills and at 77 I have had a great life and in signing the DNR I hope that my wife will be financially better off when I die.

Fair comment.

 

As we all know everyone's circumstances are unique.

[brucec64]

3 hours ago, dlclark97 said:

Have not read all the threads but if a foreigner has adequate health insurance that applies here in Thailand, that should be all that is required.  For example, most military retirees have Tricare coverage.  It pays about 75% of costs incurred and the retiree pays the other 25%.  Retirees pay every month to their Medicare Part B to maintain their Tricare coverage.  They also pay an additional amount to provide coverage for their spouse and any children up to age 23 if enrolled in an institution of higher education.  The kicker seems to be that some hospitals do not direct bill Tricare, some do.  It is an easy process if they would just do it.  Tricare provides coverage in most countries around the world, many of which have differing insurance requirements so they will not specify in their annual coverage letter what specific amounts are covered.  Basically, it is unlimited for illness or accident that would far exceed the Thai minimum requirements, it just can not be stated in the letter.  In the event the sponsor should become deceased, the remaining spouse or any of the various military organizations such as the VFW, American Legion and others can assist in filing a claim for services provided.

 

A recent proposal seen is for persons to self insure is with a deposit of 3 million baht in a Thai bank to be used for medical purposes only.  My question, if the individual passes away, what happens to that deposit?  I would assume any medical costs due would be paid and hope that any remaining amount would be given to his/her heirs.  Could we trust that to happen here?

 

Seems this 'insurance' requirement came about as a result of hospitals losing money because of thousands not paying or not being able to pay for medical care received.  A far more fair way to provide for those incidents would be to add a 500-1000 thb surcharge to any foreigner entering the country for medical coverage during his/her time here and a 5000 bht payment to every extension of stay processed.  This could be kept in a fund to pay for accidents/injuries for tourists and others while they are either touring here or for those who are determined are unable to pay for treatment.

 

As it currently is, it is grossly unfair to require the insurance provided by specific Thai companies to only those arriving or having arrived many years ago on an Non O-A visa for retirement.  Supposedly this can be converted for reason of marriage to a Thai where there is no insurance requirement but the process not easily completed..  

 

 

Why should I fund someone else not getting insurance? The point of insurance is that everyone pays and costs are payed from the shared pool. 

[thailand49]

Here is a bit of my experience with insurance since I arrived 15 plus years ago since the company I retired with didn't provide insurance thereafter. As people know in the States you have insurance you get a card that card provides out-in patient and accidents.

 

Here the policies are Ala-Carte, I believe in insurance when I got here 55 years old with no previous condition most common policy was 1 million baht for inpatient only and a bit for accident something like 10,000 baht the policy then with an Expat club 16-18,000 baht. I noticed every year the premium went up 4000 baht although I wasn't using it when I ask the underwriter I was told these expat club members are all old farts with lots of problems reason it is impossible to hold the premium that I might think about jumping ship and buying on my own since I was in good health. So I looked around with different companies and notices duel types of policies one price for foreigners and one for Thais I started to wake up and smell the coffee I did jump ship to another company but again the price went up each year then as you get older you are placed in an age bracket so whether I used or not I was back to square one a constant price increase of 3-4,000 a year and when you go into another bracket expect another increase.

 

To get more bang for the baht I went with a company for a few years the price was about what I was paying for 1 million baht but this company coverage was in USD, I opt for the 500,000 USD coverage in baht 15 million but again the premium increased year after year 4-5,000 by the time I got to 62 the premium had gone from 45,000 baht to 80,000 baht. I was also covering my son with a separate policy but found out later if I died he wouldn't no longer be able to purchased so I opt out.

 

Back to another expat club policy 1.0million baht coverage I thought the premium were reasonable just under 30,000 baht that after a number of years they wouldn't cancel after 3 years something happened?  The company decided they would gladly continue to cover but there was a catch the renewal policy coverage had 3 new choices 400-600-800,000 baht coverage they no longer provided coverage to old dry up suckers for 1 million plus that these new choices starting with the 400,000 max coverage was the same as what I paid for 1 million.  

 

If I wanted to continue same coverage a well know company step forward will cover from the old company and not cancel but reading the fine fine print we first needed to go to a suggested private hospital get a full checkup blood test and all if we had no serious conditions we would be covered and if you do and still wanted to be cover you can but none of those conditions would be covered of course the premium wasn't going down cover or no coverage the premium was the same. In our conversation she said but look " they can't cancel you " you can be covered into your 90's?  I sat there not knowing I should jump up and down and celebrate with a Happy ending or go kill myself on Sukhumvit jumping off the platform when the train arrived?

 

I looked at the premium bracket for 65-70, then 70-75, and on and on projected the premium yearly adjustments and took into the consideration if I did use the policy for any type of illness more than once seeing the fine print considering the normal increases which by 90, if I lived that long if a miracle happens I never use the policy I would be paying well over 130,000 baht a year for a 1 million baht coverage inpatient and that doesn't even consider inflation in the picture.

 

I think everyone gets the picture. My son continues to be covered under a Thai underwriting company when I look at his 1.5 million baht policy for a Thai it covers so much more particular in writing " Cancer "  which I have never seen the word clearly in coverage for Expat.

 

Three years ago I just got feed up and decided to go uninsure and discipline myself to put a 100,000 baht away each year so far so good and with all the stimulas checks I've gotten during the pandemic I socked that away too. Sure we get old people move life is hard enough getting old but does it mean we got to take it up the ass with a red hot poker!  It was said " fair " I guess if we old guys are looking for it in this world to be fair we are in the wrong world? 

 

One thing for sure, everyone gets old when you get there you will know want we current old guys are complaining about and why we might not be insured or self insured?

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by thailand49

[kennw]

8 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

As a 67 year old long term resident here with a home, partner, cars etc......paying outrageous taxes on cars but getting nothing back. I would go back to Europe if I hadn't invested so much on this racist country.

The government should allow all longer term (one year plus) resident to access the Thai government healthcare system for a reasonable fee instead of forcing us into the claws of these morally bankrupt private hospitals and insurance companies that charge foreigners much more than Thais.

Totally agree

[Adumbration]

4 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

My visa card has a huge available credit that i never use. I think if you can show you have a say $15-20,000 spare on your card then you should not need insurance. I also have enough money in the bank combined with this credit excess to cover $50,000 - so exactly why do i need insurance to cover an amount i already have access to ?

 

 

What happens if you are in a situation the same a my current one.  I have $50K in my Australian banks, but I cannot currently access it because I cannot receive SMS OTP messages to my phone.  My bank also, without my permission just recently put sms confirmation as a requirement on all my Mastercard transactions.  

[geisha]

1 hour ago, geisha said:

Hi, not contradicting you, but I thought a gold/ platinum visa only covers you for 90 days ??
is it country depending ? I have both those cards and live in France. I’m often gone over 90 days so take out an extra insurance.

Richard Coleman, sorry , I mis read your post.Thought you meant you were covered for 20/ 50 thousand $ by your Visa card !! You meant having this money readily available when needed. Ok. My sitUation is the same, have plenty invested . Still I think that a reasonable insurance that covers any huge bills is worth it. My neighbours from France had a terrible accident while in Phuket, not their fault at all, and spent over three weeks in Bangkok Phuket hospital, their legs basically crushed. It was sometimes touch and go. After 3 weeks I managed to get them repatriated with their insurance. I can’t remember the amount but it was immense! (12 yrs ago about). They were very well looked after and the specialist in France said the “ repairs “ were amazing. They spent another few months in a specialist centre. After seeing that with my own eyes and being at their bedsides every day, I would never take any chances.

[gearbox]

I voted for "no regulation for medical insurance", because there wasn't an item "Mandatory insurance is required for citizens of countries which require mandatory insurance from the Thais visiting these countries".  My gf visiting her relatives in Europe had to have travel insurance covering her period of stay to get a Schengen visa.

[MrMuddle]

52 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

That is not quite what happened.

 

What happened was a system was introduced for migrant workers from neighboring countries, priced with comparatively young, strong manual laborers in mind.

 

As is unfortunately common here, all the announcements/directive issued for it were vaguely worded and open to multiple interpretations. In particular, said only "foreigner" and did nto specify migrant or foreigner from neighboring country. Adding to the confusion, the entity managing the system in Bangkok told callers who asked that it was open to all foreigners.

 

In most provinces, hospitals therefore began to enroll all who came forward.

 

Eventually the central Ministry caught one and issued clarification and that was the end of that. Ended before the current government came in and has nothing to do with the military junta.

 

It was never remotely feasible to enrol elderly expats at that low rate, the system would have sustained huge losses.

 

There has  periodically been talk of developing a system specifically for resident expats, which would have to have different prices for different ages since many are older. I haven't heard any mention of it for quote a while, though.

 

The easiest system to address this issue would, IMO, be to establish a system allowing foreigners to access government hospitals for accidents and emergencies only,  for a set fee levied on entry to the country or on extension of a long stay visa. (It would have to be limited to accidents and emergencies or else the country would be flooded with people seeking to have their cataract surgery, hernia repairs and the like done on the cheap - especially from nearby countries in the region). Those wanting to use private hospitals, and those wanting other than emergency care, would either pay out of pocket or have private insurance, up to them, but at least government hospitals -- which are the ones that have been losing money-- would be protected.

 

I stand corrected, unfortunately my memory isn't what it was, ain't old age grand! lol
Thanks for the clarification, and I agree with your final paragraph.

[gearbox]

10 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

What happens if you are in a situation the same a my current one.  I have $50K in my Australian banks, but I cannot currently access it because I cannot receive SMS OTP messages to my phone.  My bank also, without my permission just recently put sms confirmation as a requirement on all my Mastercard transactions.  

Next time when you go back home get Aldi Mobile sim card - $15 with 365 days validity, which extends every time you top it up online. Turn off the mobile data, getting sms messages is free. I get tens of authorization sms messages every month dealing with banks, CC providers and the government. I even need it now to use Wise for money transfers to my Bangkok Bank account.

[MRToMRT]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

A patronizing post 

You would be the expert on that subject

[Seeall]

7 hours ago, starky said:

I have a million USD international health insurance for myself and my family. It doesn't just cover Thailand but most countries. Have had that since my children were born. Sure insurance is betting against yourself but medical insurance is a must surely? 

  I come from Australia where we obviously have universal health care but even there I have private coverage separate from the international coverage I have for my family. It is my opinion that people living in a foreign country should certainly have private cover so as not to be a burden on the system and I am slightly amused by people who live here, choose to live here and yet think they "deserve" certain things. Who would want to be treated in the public hospital system here anyway?

   I understand it must be difficult for those who are not eligible for any sort of insurance at all and it would be fair to make allowances for those who have already been here. However for new applicants I think it is only fair that they have some basic health insurance for me it is a no brainer.

nanny state thinking lol....

[Marco100]

I voted nr 4 . That's the way it was and it was working .

Few tourists might have been in need of care and didn't had money to cover but that shouldn't affect long time residents .

Thai Government intends to put a tax of 500 bhat for incoming people in Thailand to cover extra health care expenses n that is more than sufficient to my opinion .  

[BusyB]

11 hours ago, Confuscious said:

Open letter to the Government,

It is no rocket science to know that an insurance company is a company that calculate his risks and is in no way a social company to benefit anyone else than themselves.

Forcing a health insurance in people, specially people over 50 with already underlying diseases, will benefit NOBODY.

If someone in this age bracket would endup in a hospital with a severe disease, the insurance comaony will claim that this disease was "underlaying" and will not pay for the hospital costs.
Thus leaving the hospitals and Thailand with huge unpaid bills, despite of paying huge soms for that insurance.

A better and more effective system would be:
1. Appoint a GOVERMENT run health care to handle the health care for every foreigner who enter Thailand or who stays already in Thailand on a long term visa.
2. EVERY foreigner who enter Thailand or remain in Thailand would have to pay for health care insurance.
3. Foreigners living in Thailand on a Retirement Visa or a Thai spouse Visa are required to put the require 800,000/400,000 Baht into that helath care system instead of putting the funds in a Thai Bank.
This sum will gain interests which will be used for the foreigner health care system.
4. On leaving Thailand, the foreigner will receive part or the whole paid insurance, depending on the case if he/she used the health care and how much has beem spend.

This is only a guidance on how a better health care system for foreigners/tourists could be setup.

 

That sounds fine. But I can't think of a country anywhere that does that. Maybe you know a couple? 

 

Why should Thailand set up a 'Ministry for Foreigner Health Insurance' just to serve spoiled first world brats who can't be bothered to look after themselves, who are ostensibly fleeing 'the nanny state' yet want their travels to be nannied?

 

People who travel should be responsible enough to ensure they have the necessary cover. My vote's with RocketDog.

[Andycoops]

My insurance in Thailand covers me upto 99 years of age.