Reflective of the true democratic order. 

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I'm double vaccinated AND staying at home.

Why take the risk?

So why so much effort objecting to a vaccine mandate?

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I'm relatively old and, vaccinated or not, I have a lot to be concerned about if I get infected. The fewer people are unvaccinated the lower the chance that I will be infected.

But covid is only one of hundreds of diseases you could get and at your elderly old age might see you off.

 

 

1 minute ago, jak2002003 said:

But covid is only one of hundreds of diseases you cold get and at your elderly old age might see you off.

So I should ignore the risk from covid? is that your point? If not, what is it?

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Tell that to the fully vaccinated 'hero doctor' that recently died of COVID.

If the vaccines prevent infection ........ how did he die from COVID?

 

Currently, relative to the Delta variant, Phizer claims that 40% of those fully vaccinated will achieve immunity. The "hero doctor" was obviously one of the 60% who didn't achieve immunity.

7 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

Covid vaccines help the human immune system to be prepared for an eventual infection by producing antibodies before an infection occurs , that the immune system can attack the actual virus faster as if the body has to produce antibodies after being infected . That is why vaccination protects against serious life threatening disease , not so against the infection by the virus itself .

Healthy people with a functional immune system do not need to be hospitalized very often .

Right conclusion, wrong reason. Antibodies prevent the cells from becoming infected in the first place, thus preventing infection. Each subsequent dominant variant seems to be less affected by the antibodies created by previous infections/vaccines. Hence "breakthrough" infections with later variants.

 

However, the body also produces "T" cells as a result of infection/vaccination. These cells seek and destroy cells already infected by the virus. Thus they prevent the infection raging throughout the body and lead to the early demise of your infection.

 

Luckily, "T" cells generated by previous infections/vaccines appear to be equally successful against the various variants, thus preventing most people from becoming seriously ill/dying.

 

Get your vaccine now, you know it makes sense.

10 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I think the argument about mild cases is going down the drain.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/02/south-africa-considers-vaccine-mandates-as-omicron-cases-spiral-leaders-decry-travel-bans.html

 

South Africa considers vaccine mandates as omicron cases spiral

 

 

Omicron is rapidly becoming the dominant variant on South Africa, with the country’s National Institute for Communicable Diseases saying it is seeing an “exponential increase in infections,” with 74% of virus genomes sequenced in the last month belonging to the new variant.

 

Cases increased from a weekly average of 300 two weeks ago to 1,000 per day last week. On Wednesday, the country recorded 8,561 cases.

 

In a televised address on Sunday, President Cyril Ramaphosa said epidemiologists and disease modelers were warning that South Africa should expect a fourth wave of Covid-19 in early December, with the variant now found in all of the country’s provinces.

 

 

 

I couldn't find anything in that article which relates to the severity of infection. Why is "the argument about mild cases is going down the drain." 

 

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   Please try to stay on the topic which is Germany, Omicron, vaccine mandates etc.  

17 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Perhaps a little more humanity is required.

 

5.23 million human beings, mothers, fathers, children, brothers, sisters, husbands wives.

 

5.23 million people who loved and were loved.

 

Go ahead, minimize this vast human suffering, doing so really does help your arguments.

 

Some ‘Humanity’ would be an improvement.

 

 

I'd reply to that if it weren't off topic.

Have a nice day.

13 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So why so much effort objecting to a vaccine mandate?

You obviously don't get that we object to the mandates, rather than actions to reduce the spread. Some of us didn't elect governments to be dictators, and don't like it when they start being dictatorial.

Carrot always works better than the stick, but seems politicians forgot that.

28 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You obviously don't get that we object to the mandates, rather than actions to reduce the spread. Some of us didn't elect governments to be dictators, and don't like it when they start being dictatorial.

Carrot always works better than the stick, but seems politicians forgot that.

Agreed!  But the actions to reduce the spread aren't working because so many won't take the jab.  For the majority of us who want to get back to "normal", mandates seem the only way.  And guess what?  They work.

16 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

That's where the unvaccinated will soon be. Home alone.

Even the unvaccinated have to go to the supermarket, or are you advocating that the taxpayer should pay others to do so for those locked in jail their room.

BTW, how are they going to ensure all the unvaccinated actually stay in their room? Ankle bracelets like criminals, microchip trackers, constant cctv surveillance? Good luck with that.

 

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Even the unvaccinated have to go to the supermarket, or are you advocating that the taxpayer should pay others to do so for those locked in jail their room.

BTW, how are they going to ensure all the unvaccinated actually stay in their room? Ankle bracelets like criminals, microchip trackers, constant cctv surveillance? Good luck with that.

 

Not a good post on my part.  I apologize.  But, it seems to be heading in that direction.  Hopefully, with mandates, very few will soon be unvaccinated.  Then we don't have this problem.

 

As you know, most are unvaccinated for poor reasons.  Many fueled by misinformation on social media, or just hatred of anything to do with their government.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Agreed!  But the actions to reduce the spread aren't working because so many won't take the jab.  For the majority of us who want to get back to "normal", mandates seem the only way.  And guess what?  They work.

Yes they do, but will society survive the mandates? Eventually the pandemic will end, but the anger will remain, and IMO poison politics for a very long time. It's not even 2 years and all the indicators are that society is breaking apart, suicides up, family violence/ breakdown up etc. The longer the same old same old continues the worse, IMO, the consequences will become for society.

 

We should all remember that it's NOT all about covid, as much as some wish it were.

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes they do, but will society survive the mandates? Eventually the pandemic will end, but the anger will remain, and IMO poison politics for a very long time. It's not even 2 years and all the indicators are that society is breaking apart, suicides up, family violence/ breakdown up etc. The longer the same old same old continues the worse, IMO, the consequences will become for society.

 

We should all remember that it's NOT all about covid, as much as some wish it were.

A majority are already vaccinated.  It's only a minority who won't, so yes, we'll survive.  We've had vaccine mandates for decades. Stunning some are making such a big deal out of this.

 

Society is breaking apart due to the hatred and misinformation being spewed by some media outlets.  Sad so many visit this sites.

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

or just hatred of anything to do with their government.

Indeed. I would hazard that many are angry with the government The next election is going to be nasty and vicious, IMO.

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

A majority are already vaccinated.  It's only a minority who won't, so yes, we'll survive.  We've had vaccine mandates for decades. Stunning some are making such a big deal out of this.

 

Society is breaking apart due to the hatred and misinformation being spewed by some media outlets.  Sad so many visit this sites.

Some are making such a big deal out of this because it is a big deal. It's not just the mandates, but all the other things the government is doing under cover of the covid thing. Not everyone is willfully ignorant of what is going on.

I disagree that it's because of some media outlets. IMO people see what is going on and are getting angry all on their own.

Why should they be allowed in supermarkets? That is NOT essential as they can get it delivered or 

order provisions for curbside/ door pickup. Very common in US now. 

23 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Agreed!  But the actions to reduce the spread aren't working because so many won't take the jab.  For the majority of us who want to get back to "normal", mandates seem the only way.  And guess what?  They work.

Actions to reduce the spread aren't working because the vaccinations aren't working.

After everyone is vaccinated and the virus is still spreading what are you going to do then?

How many vaccinations and boosters will you insist everyone has before you admit they aren't working?

4 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Why should they be allowed in supermarkets? That is NOT essential as they can get it delivered or 

order provisions for curbside/ door pickup. Very common in US now. 

55555555555555555

Not everyone lives in the US.

 

21 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well he made a claim that the BBC was reporting a 90% vaccinated figure which it is not.

The "he" you are referring to is me, and I quoted the BBC directly from a recent BBC article, here you are again (4th time now).

 

"With nine in 10 of those aged 12 or over having had a single jab and eight in 10 having had a second, the focus has shifted to boosters"

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833

 

on't be available for comebacks.

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Some are making such a big deal out of this because it is a big deal. It's not just the mandates, but all the other things the government is doing under cover of the covid thing. Not everyone is willfully ignorant of what is going on.

I disagree that it's because of some media outlets. IMO people see what is going on and are getting angry all on their own.

Under cover of covid?  You mean the global pandemic that's killed millions, with potentially millions more to come?  Seriously?  Maybe some are ignorant of what's going on.

 

Vaccine hesitancy is mostly being driven by misinformation.  From social media and dodgy news sites.  As you've seen here, some fall for the fake news on Russia Today!  Boggles my mind.

 

Germany blames misinformation for a majority of those who won't take the jab.  Thus, the mandate.

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Actions to reduce the spread aren't working because the vaccinations aren't working.

After everyone is vaccinated and the virus is still spreading what are you going to do then?

How many vaccinations and boosters will you insist everyone has before you admit they aren't working?

MISINFORMATION!  The vaccinations work.  Don't spread misinformation.  It helps no one.

6 minutes ago, blackprince said:

 

 

on't be available for comebacks.

Lol i must remember that one.

16 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You are clearly not taking into consideration that the vaccinated are up to ten times less likely to become infected.

Appears NOT so. at least in the UK.  75 new cases of the  Covid Omicron, 50% found in the fully vaccinated

Baiting, bickering posts removed.

 

2 minutes ago, ignis said:

Appears NOT so. at least in the UK.  75 new cases of the  Covid Omicron, 50% found in the fully vaccinated

True, but they're not dying or ending up in the ICU.  Thus, vaccines work.  Much to the dismay of the anti vaxxer crowd.

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Didn't work for the 'hero doctor' that recently died from COVID despite being fully vaccinated.

Didn't work in Gibraltar where 100% are vaccinated and the infection numbers are still rising.

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/most-vaccinated-place-on-earth-told-to-cancel-holiday-plans-amid-exponential-rise-in-covid-cases/news-story/1954572a25f48e39b7825e562129b9bc

 

"Despite ongoing reassurance from world governments, the widespread vaccination of populations has unfortunately failed to ease rising case numbers for some densely populated nations."

 

"In Ireland, which has 92 per cent of its eligible population covered, deaths and transmission rates from the virus have roughly doubled since August."

https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-gibraltar-vaccination-covid-surge/31589031.html

Sorry, But Gibraltar Doesn’t Make the Case for Vaccine Critics

Russian state broadcaster RT, which has repeatedly stoked vaccine hesitancy, ran an article headlined “'Most vaccinated' place on earth cancels Christmas.”

 

The claim that vaccines can’t help end the pandemic is false.

 

In fact, many of the newly recorded COVID-19 cases in Gibraltar are occurring among those who have not been vaccinated. Moreover, the vaccines are, as predicted, succeeding in preventing deaths and serious infections that lead to hospitalization.

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

True, but they're not dying or ending up in the ICU.  Thus, vaccines work.  Much to the dismay of the anti vaxxer crowd.

MISINFORMATION, 

If the vaccines worked to reduce transmission it wouldn't be 50% of the new infections were fully vaccinated. If the claims were real it would be more like 10% vaccinated, 90% unvaccinated for new infections.

38 minutes ago, blackprince said:

 

The "he" you are referring to is me, and I quoted the BBC directly from a recent BBC article, here you are again (4th time now).

 

"With nine in 10 of those aged 12 or over having had a single jab and eight in 10 having had a second, the focus has shifted to boosters"

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833

 

on't be available for comebacks.

But it's not 90% of the entire population. That share is 68%. And "fully vaccinated" means those who have been inoculated twice. So the percentage of those who have received boosters is most likely far lower. And we can tell from this comment of yours that it's absolutely clear that you misunderstood the statistic cited by the BBC.

 

That 90% comment would only make sense if it were 90% of the entire UK population. A 68% figure is not nearly high enough to put transmission into reverse.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/united-kingdom