1 hour ago, sungod said:

Fully vaccinated, 2nd dose 3 months ago, then caught it. So much for Jeff's theory it stop transmission.

 

 

As widely reported, it stops transmission.  Not 100%, but a very high percentage.  It's not my theory.

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/cdc-study-front-line-workers-shows-covid-19-vaccines-90-percent-effective-180977376/

 

CDC Study of Vaccinated Frontline Workers Shows Covid-19 Shots Effectively Prevent Infection, Not Just Symptoms

 

The vaccinated group of participants saw 90 percent fewer cases than if they had not been vaccinated

 

21 minutes ago, sungod said:

Fully vaccinated, 2nd dose 3 months ago, then caught it. So much for Jeff's theory it stop transmission.

 

 

We all should know that the vaccine is not 100% effective, that has been said many times, but the facts are that most folk will have an easier time if they do catch it. Sadly, many think that having the jab makes them immune, it doesn't..

35 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

AFAIK, schools are mandating that kids need to be vaccinated in order to attend.

 

Bit of a moot point arguing the case for or against 5 year-olds getting jabbed unless you are home-schooling, the school still offers the online learning option or you are not even bothering with school, no?

Not all schools are mandating this, not the one my daughter goes to anyway. They were advising parents to give permission. We did get our daughter vaccinated although she is 13 so out of the age range of this topic. 

1 hour ago, sungod said:

 

 Everyone should be vaccinated.  I never got sick but still got the jab, and the booster.  What's wrong with that?

 

11 minutes ago, sungod said:

This one from the NHS (reviewed 20th Jan) so assume omicron is the dominant strain.

 

Research shows rapid tests are a reliable test for COVID-19. They give a quick result and do not need to be sent to a lab.

 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing/regular-rapid-coronavirus-tests-if-you-do-not-have-symptoms/

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/rapid-nose-swab-tests-covid-may-not-detect-omicron-quickly-enough-expert-says-2022-01-07/

 

Rapid nose swab tests for COVID may not detect Omicron quickly enough -expert says

Just now, transam said:

We all should know that the vaccine is not 100% effective, that has been said many times, but the facts are that most folk will have an easier time if they do catch it. Sadly, many think that having the jab makes them immune, it doesn't..

Cant disagree with anything you say there.

2 minutes ago, transam said:

We all should know that the vaccine is not 100% effective, that has been said many times, but the facts are that most folk will have an easier time if they do catch it. Sadly, many think that having the jab makes them immune, it doesn't..

Anti vaxxers use this argument all the time.  Why should I get the jab when it doesn't prevent me from getting covid?  They rely on social media too much! LOL

47 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/rapid-nose-swab-tests-covid-may-not-detect-omicron-quickly-enough-expert-says-2022-01-07/

 

Rapid nose swab tests for COVID may not detect Omicron quickly enough -expert says

Thats right, its even been posted on TV for weeks now that the saliva test is the way ahead.

 

The way you are posting that ATK tests are useless is irresponsible. People on here may take note and not bother. ATK are simple inexpensive tests that can be done at home, its the first line of defence. It enables people to isolate at home and stop onward infection. Not everyone wants to take a PCR and risk being incarcerated in a government facility if they only have mild symptoms.

 

43 minutes ago, sungod said:

Thats right, its even been posted on TV for weeks now that the saliva test is the way ahead.

 

The way you are posting that ATK tests are useless is irresponsible. People on here may take note and not bother. ATK are simple inexpensive tests that can be done at home, its the first line of defence. It enables people to isolate at home and stop onward infection. Not everyone wants to take a PCR and risk being incarcerated in a government facility if they only have mild symptoms.

 

 You are aware not all ATK tests are saliva based?  Most I've seen recently, and used, are nasal based, which don't detect Omicron as well.

 

Research is a good thing.

46 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/11/health/deliberate-omicron-infection-wellness/index.html

 

5 reasons you should not deliberately catch Omicron to 'get it over with'

 

47 minutes ago, sungod said:

Thats right, its even been posted on TV for weeks now that the saliva test is the way ahead.

 

The way you are posting that ATK tests are useless is irresponsible. People on here may take note and not bother. ATK are simple inexpensive tests that can be done at home, its the first line of defence. It enables people to isolate at home and stop onward infection. Not everyone wants to take a PCR and risk being incarcerated in a government facility if they only have mild symptoms.

 

Cant say I agree with everything you say, but you are spot on here.

1 minute ago, Harry Black said:

Cant say I agree with everything you say, but you are spot on here.

Many I know who've gotten covid recently, detected via PCR tests, didn't have to go into quarantine facilities.  They were allowed to quarantine in their own home or condo.  So no, not spot on.

46 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

 You are aware not all ATK tests are saliva based?  Most I've seen recently, and used, are nasal based, which don't detect Omicron as well.

 

Research is a good thing.

Its also been posted on here for sometime, the fella Smedley has done it a few times that experts recommend both swabbing the nose and throat.

 

Plenty of nasal/ saliva kits on Lazada, I buy the ones from Testsealabs.

 

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Many I know who've gotten covid recently, detected via PCR tests, didn't have to go into quarantine facilities.  They were allowed to quarantine in their own home or condo.  So no, not spot on.

My sister in law is in cheap hotel for 2 weeks with a runny nose, so mild they are not even giving her meds. She is regretting the PCR now.

44 minutes ago, Harry Black said:

Its also been posted on here for sometime, the fella Smedley has done it a few times that experts recommend both swabbing the nose and throat.

 

Plenty of nasal/ saliva kits on Lazada, I buy the ones from Testsealabs.

 

Ummm...pointing out that experts are saying nasal swabs are not the best at detecting Omicron is irresponsible?

 

  I would think some are not aware of this.  Good that you are!  TBH, I wasn't a few weeks ago, but am now.  Saliva tests are much better.

 

2 minutes ago, Harry Black said:

My sister in law is in cheap hotel for 2 weeks with a runny nose, so mild they are not even giving her meds. She is regretting the PCR now.

You experience, not mine with several of my friends.  They are at home in quarantine.

 

But yes, it's a worry.  I'd rather avoid a quarantine if I'm not that sick.

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Ummm...pointing out that experts are saying nasal swabs are not the best at detecting Omicron is irresponsible?  I would think some are not aware of this.  Good that you are!  TBH, I wasn't a few weeks ago, but am now.  Saliva tests are much better.

 

Happy now?

Yes I am now, you could have been more careful and pointed this out in the beginning, your original statement was all ATK tests are useless, when in fact they are not.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Harry Black said:

Yes I am now, you could have been more careful and pointed this out in the beginning, your original statement was all ATK tests are useless, when in fact they are not.

 

 

Fair point and glad you caught it.

Think many of us with kids that age will want them to have it to get them back into school after a year missing out - mine still is not back since April.

 

I think the risk to my daughter from lack of education - even if only a thai one - and the social aspect of schooling far outweighs the risk to my daughters long term health.

42 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

As widely reported, it stops transmission.  Not 100%, but a very high percentage.  It's not my theory.

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/cdc-study-front-line-workers-shows-covid-19-vaccines-90-percent-effective-180977376/

 

CDC Study of Vaccinated Frontline Workers Shows Covid-19 Shots Effectively Prevent Infection, Not Just Symptoms

 

The vaccinated group of participants saw 90 percent fewer cases than if they had not been vaccinated

 

 

Jeff, that article you cite above on vaccines preventing transmission is from early 2021, well before the arrival of Omicron.

 

While the current vaccines have been shown to still have some effect in preventing/reducing the transmission of Omicron (those here who say there's no prevention are wrong), everything I've been reading of the science lately says that the prevention of transmission effect has lessened a lot with Omicron vs the variants before it.  But still some, and still substantial effect in preventing serious illness and death.

 

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

You really don't get it, do you? You start out with the apparently high-minded principle that 1 child should not be sacrificed to save a million adults. But then you justify that principle on the basis of self interest. Well, if self-interest is the ruling criterion, they why shouldn't those million imperiled adults demand out of their own self-interest, that children be vaccinated even if it means that 1 additional child would die?

 

I never tried to be 'high-minded' - it is just my belief that nobody should be vaccinated for others, it should be done to protect ourselves only.

 

There is a difference in what we are saying though:

 

You: children should be vaccinated to protect elders even though some are dying of the vaccine.

 

Me: everyone should be vaccinated to protect themselves and nobody should be pressured into taking the risk of vaccine for other reasons.

 

If elders (or anyone) take all the safety precautions they possibly can take (or are willing to take) and yet still succumb to covid, then that just nature - but I ain't gona throw anyone else under the bus so I can walk freely (especially not children).

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Wow.  Through the elderly under the bus.  Terrible.

No, they can take all the precautions afforded to them. They protection is their responsibility. They could be triple vaxed by now.

 

And nobody is forcing them to go outside in a densely populated. area

 

The risk they take is up to them, that's my point.

 

 

53 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

As widely reported, it stops transmission.  Not 100%, but a very high percentage.  It's not my theory.

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/cdc-study-front-line-workers-shows-covid-19-vaccines-90-percent-effective-180977376/

 

CDC Study of Vaccinated Frontline Workers Shows Covid-19 Shots Effectively Prevent Infection, Not Just Symptoms

 

The vaccinated group of participants saw 90 percent fewer cases than if they had not been vaccinated

 

Wandering off topic, as the thread is about kids.

 

But in response the article you posted is March 31st 2021, almost a year ago. Wouldn't have disagreed with you at the time, but surely not relevant with omicron where its widely reported that the 2 shot regime is about 30% effective against infection, but thankfully 70% effective against hospitalisation. The transmission boat has sailed, its all about preventing severe illness now. So no, not a high percentage at all.

Various posts in this thread have been removed and/or edited for misinformation and unsubstantiated claims, trolling, bickering, personal comments about fellow forum members, etc.  And various replies to those removed posts.

 

36 minutes ago, 2009 said:

 

I never tried to be 'high-minded' - it is just my belief that nobody should be vaccinated for others, it should be done to protect ourselves only.

 

There is a difference in what we are saying though:

 

You: children should be vaccinated to protect elders even though some are dying of the vaccine.

 

Me: everyone should be vaccinated to protect themselves and nobody should be pressured into taking the risk of vaccine for other reasons.

 

If elders (or anyone) take all the safety precautions they possibly can take (or are willing to take) and yet still succumb to covid, then that just nature - but I ain't gona throw anyone else under the bus so I can walk freely (especially not children).

Extremely selfish.  Kinda like saying nobody should prevent me from drunk driving just to protect others.

 

Our fastest way through this mess is via vaccines.  Everyone.

11 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

Even then, winning a lawsuit against Pfizer isn’t going to bring your dead child back. 
 

The US federal Government has granted Pfizer immunity from liability if something goes wrong from taking their vaccines.  Which is ironic, as their vaccines don't even provide immunity from Covid.  Vaccine Definition: a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

26 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Jeff, that article you cite above on vaccines preventing transmission is from early 2021, well before the arrival of Omicron.

 

While the current vaccines have been shown to still have some effect in preventing/reducing the transmission of Omicron (those here who say there's no prevention are wrong), everything I've been reading of the science lately says that the prevention of transmission effect has lessened a lot with Omicron vs the variants before it.  But still some, and still substantial effect in preventing serious illness and death.

 

Excellent point.  Though Delta is still prevalent.  My friend just got the Delta version while in Europe.  Confirmed via a PCR test.

 

Though it won't prevent infection, it's sure lessens the impact of the virus.

 

https://fortune.com/2022/01/19/covid-19-boosters-block-immunity-omicron-study-finds/

Quote

All the cases were mild or moderate, providing support for the extra shots’ ability to fend off severe disease, death and hospitalizations.

 

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/11/health/deliberate-omicron-infection-wellness/index.html

 

5 reasons you should not deliberately catch Omicron to 'get it over with'

 

 

Interesting content in the Jan. 11 CNN report you linked above relating to COVID and children, as per the topic of this thread:

 

"Data from the American Academy of Pediatrics shows an upward trend of infections in children, which far exceeds "the peak of past waves of the pandemic."

...

Covid-19 Infections in children have typically been mild so far in the pandemic, but the sheer magnitude of cases caused by the very contagious Omicron variant is sending children under age 18 to hospitals in record numbers, according to data from the CDC.

 

"I would say the best way to keep those children protected is to vaccinate them as they're eligible and surround them by siblings and parents who are vaccinated themselves," said CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky in a Friday news conference."

 

The CNN report above has specific stats from American Academy of Pediatrics on the extent of spiraling child COVID cases in the U.S., resulting in increased hospitalizations. But the forum's fair use quoting rules limit my ability to quote all those in the above excerpt. But they're there for the reading in the CNN report.

 

5 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Though it won't prevent infection, it's sure lessens the impact of the virus.

 

These are relative terms, that I try to be careful about using.

 

The current vaccines will HELP prevent the spread of Omicron infections by reducing the rate of infection. But they aren't a 100% prevention against infection, especially with Omicron.

 

In my book, though, every little (or not so little) bit helps!

 

And from watching the WHO video Q and A that another member earlier posted in this thread, it sounds like the pharma companies are working now on new vaccine versions designed to better protect against Omicron infections.

 

 

An off topic post relating to Pfizer that had nothing to do with its COVID vaccines has been removed.