Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

"Terrible that the Russian Army may overthrow an elected leader" Elected how? The last opponent to Putin is now in prison. Before that he was poisoned with novichak and only managed to survive because he made it to the West. The chief previous opponent was murdered.  Journalists who dig too deep have been murdered and/or physically attacked.. Independent news outlets have been driven into submission or non-existence. Do you actually believe that under such conditions an election is meaningful?

I was referring to the Ukrainian elected Government .

And how some people are appalled that an Army may  overthrow an elected Government 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Such people used to be called war mongers, but I guess in their eyes they are patriots standing up to the evil empire ( as long as it's other people actually dying ).

LOL.

You'd have a much better point if it wasn't for the fact that Ukrainian soldiers have repeatedly shown their willingness to stand up and fight the Russian invaders. Even in Mariupol, against hopeless odds, they refuse to surrender.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, placeholder said:

You'd have a much better point if it wasn't for the fact that Ukrainian soldiers have repeatedly shown their willingness to stand up and fight the Russian invaders. Even in Mariupol, against hopeless odds, they refuse to surrender.

I wasn't referring to Ukrainians.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I was referring to the Ukrainian elected Government .

And how some people are appalled that an Army may  overthrow an elected Government 

Thanks for clearing that up. And why shouldn't they be appalled?

[RJRS1301]

14 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Ukraine clearly think they have the situation under control.

They appear to have an ace up the sleeve.

It's just a matter of time before they produce it.

 

Back to the PR machine at the embassy for better posts please.

The one week special operation can only ben deemed an abysmal failure under anyone's gaze, even your obscured one

Edited April 20, 2022 by RJRS1301

[placeholder]

35 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wasn't referring to Ukrainians.

So you're not criticizing non-Ukrainians people for supporting sending the Ukrainians weapons? But you claimed (falsely) that such people were inconsistent? Confused much?

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, Meat Pie 47 said:

Yes I had some Russian contacts and none of them is on line anymore

They are perhaps keeping a low profile incase they get conscripted.

[Chomper Higgot]

53 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wasn't referring to Ukrainians.

So by your own admission, off topic.

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Thinly veiled whataboutary.

 

You’ll find the topic under discussion at the top of the thread.

 

You might want to start a separate topic for these other issues you are dragging into this discussion.

 

You’ll find the link to ‘Start New Topic’ at the top of the forum.

Not just thinly veiled but utterly false.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

American politics isnt on topic .

This thread is about Ukraine and Russia 

Then why did you post the obviously false claim:

 

"I think that you will find that Right winger generally prefer the democratic process and do not support fascism "?

 

Nothing about Ukraine and Russia there.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The longer this goes on the more I have to wonder why certain posters have not come out in the past with such gusto on other conflicts like in Syria or Yemen. Thousands have died in those conflicts too, so it can't be that the numbers are significant.

I suspect I do know why, but I'd like to hear it from them.

Can you identify a "good guy" with a credible chance of winning either of these wars?  If not, support would have been worse than pointless.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That is the elephant in the room.

No one has forgotten that Russia is a nuclear power.  No one has denied it.  No one is unaware of it. 

 

This thread is full of discussions of how to best to deal with an aggressive nuclear power that has illegally invaded a neighbor.  Stop misrepresenting other posters.

[Bkk Brian]

Well thats brought it out into the open, like we didn't know already. The head of Russian state sponsored propaganda channel R.T.news. 

 

VIDEO: Head of RT Margarita Simonyan admits that for 10 years or more, she's been dreaming about censorship, banning Western media and Russia becoming like China by achieving total information control. Most of all, Simonyan doesn't want the idea of freedom to ever come back to Moscow.

[ozimoron]

8 hours ago, placeholder said:

Not sure what your point is. They were both members when Turkish forces partitioned Cyprus.

They should have tossed Turkey for violation of the charter.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is what I have been saying as well . 

I don't want the U.K to get involved with the fighting against the Russians , although it would be great if we can sell the Ukrainians some weapons  .

   That is what I have said all along , and you classified me as a "surrendering wimp"

If the UK sells Ukraine weapons is it not reasonable for the UK to teach them how to use those weapons? Other than that, the UK isn't involved as far as I know.

[Bkk Brian]

Fighting for freedom, their homes and families. Heart warming, how civilised people behave and support each other, kindness, love and unity

 

 

[Berkshire]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Is it not true that if US or British military units launch missiles against Russia in the Ukraine they will become legitimate targets? IMO they would.

As I see it if they get involved Putin has to respond, and so it goes to WW3 and nuclear winter where we all die.

Again, nobody wants a World War.  My point previously was that allowing Russia to plow into Ukraine with no consequences will only enable Putin.  Russia doesn't want NATO to get involved, not even just supplying weapons.  So the west is already going against his wishes.  What's he going to do?  Putin is like a bully who'll harass a weaker country, but will only "talk tough" against a more formidable adversary.  I predict NATO/US will do more as the atrocities pile up and Putin won't respond, except only with rhetoric. 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That is the elephant in the room.

I reckon Ukraine will be left be destroyed rather than a nuclear weapon being used.

Russia ain't that irresponsible neither is the US or the the rest of the world.  

That is why I had my personal opinion as to what Ukraine should of done in the first place because they will be left to the mercy of Russia and mercy is not in the Russian book of war. 

It will end when Russia ends it. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

I reckon Ukraine will be left be destroyed rather than a nuclear weapon being used.

Russia ain't that irresponsible neither is the US or the the rest of the world.  

That is why I had my personal opinion as to what Ukraine should of done in the first place because they will be left to the mercy of Russia and mercy is not in the Russian book of war. 

It will end when Russia ends it. 

Can Russia continue to sustain the destruction of its military? Every ship in the Black Sea is at risk and new and deadlier weapons are going to Ukraine. Sort of violating the Geneva convention, Russia doesn't have too many options left for victory.

[Chris.B]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Can Russia continue to sustain the destruction of its military? Every ship in the Black Sea is at risk and new and deadlier weapons are going to Ukraine. Sort of violating the Geneva convention, Russia doesn't have too many options left for victory.

Need to get a hunter killer, nuclear submarine into the Black Sea and wipe the Russian fleet out.

 

[Kwasaki]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Can Russia continue to sustain the destruction of its military? Every ship in the Black Sea is at risk and new and deadlier weapons are going to Ukraine. Sort of violating the Geneva convention, Russia doesn't have too many options left for victory.

As I've said many times, will have to wait and see. 

Also depends on what Russia will think victory is. 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Can Russia continue to sustain the destruction of its military? Every ship in the Black Sea is at risk and new and deadlier weapons are going to Ukraine. Sort of violating the Geneva convention, Russia doesn't have too many options left for victory.

Moreover, Russia’s economy cannot sustain the military it has, let alone the military it would need to maintain security by any means other than the peaceful cooperation and trade that existed before Putin trashed it.

 

Germany alone has already raised its military budgets to exceed those of Russia.

 

Added to which Russia is facing its first loan default on May 4th.

 

Whatever motivated Putin it wasn’t anything to do with what was best for Russia.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Need to get a hunter killer, nuclear submarine into the Black Sea and wipe the Russian fleet out.

 

Not necessary.

 

Supplying Ukrainian with anti ship missiles will force Russia to withdraw its aging fleet to a ‘safe’ distance.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

As I've said many times, will have to wait and see. 

Also depends on what Russia will think victory is. 

It might depend on what Putin can con the Russian public into believing is a victory.

 

Strongman leaders being revealed as not strong is never a good thing for strongman leaders.

[Bkk Brian]

14 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I reckon Ukraine will be left be destroyed rather than a nuclear weapon being used.

Russia ain't that irresponsible neither is the US or the the rest of the world.  

That is why I had my personal opinion as to what Ukraine should of done in the first place because they will be left to the mercy of Russia and mercy is not in the Russian book of war. 

It will end when Russia ends it. 

Russia's already ended its plan A when they discovered their military prowess is not what it seemed to be. The Ukrainians showed them they are not willing to throw up the white flag. This will war will end when Russia is defeated.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

I posted that people who want to surrender to Putin because he made vague threats are wimps.  Whether you think that applies to you is your call.

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is what I have been saying as well . 

I don't want the U.K to get involved with the fighting against the Russians , although it would be great if we can sell the Ukrainians some weapons  .

   That is what I have said all along , and you classified me as a "surrendering wimp"

Where have I called you personally a "surrendering wimp"?

 

Where have you posted that you want western nations to provide Ukraine with weapons?  Not sell weapons, Ukraine is in no position to buy, but provide weapons of a quality and quantity to make a difference.

 

Why have you argued with so many posters who want the west to support Ukraine?  Note that most or all want the support to come in the form of weapons and sanctions, not going to war with Russia.

[heybruce]

38 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Need to get a hunter killer, nuclear submarine into the Black Sea and wipe the Russian fleet out.

 

I don't know much about submarines, but I suspect there aren't many nations that want to risk sending a sub through the narrow waters that separate the Aegean and Black Seas.   https://duckduckgo.com/?q=straits+of+"bosophorus"&norw=1&t=ffab&ia=web&iaxm=about

 

I think providing Ukraine with effective land based anti-ship missiles would be a safer bet.

Edited April 20, 2022 by heybruce

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

Where have I called you personally a "surrendering wimp"?

 

Where have you posted that you want western nations to provide Ukraine with weapons?  Not sell weapons, Ukraine is in no position to buy, but provide weapons of a quality and quantity to make a difference.

 

Why have you argued with so many posters who want the west to support Ukraine?  Note that most or all want the support to come in the form of weapons and sanctions, not going to war with Russia.

Don't feed the

[Rimmer]

I have removed a a lot of argumentative bickering and baiting posts and replies that are also often off topic.

 

This topic has become a hot and a most important topic for quick, accurate information about the war, lets try to keep it that way, and leave the personal sniping to the soldiers in Ukraine. Thank you. 

[Virt]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Can Russia continue to sustain the destruction of its military? Every ship in the Black Sea is at risk and new and deadlier weapons are going to Ukraine. Sort of violating the Geneva convention, Russia doesn't have too many options left for victory.

About the weapon supplies.

It's funny that Russia are now complaining that US and other countries supply Ukraine with weapons.

 

Didn't Soviet supply Vietnam with missiles to shoot down US planes during that war?

 

Didn't Soviet supply fighter pilots to fly MiGs in the Korean war.

 

I think Russia should shut the <deleted> off and just retreat from a country that is not theirs and hopefully never will be.