Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I can't imagine how anyone can still be neutral in this terror instigated by Russia. Can you really still sit on a fence and not know what side you should be on?

Anyone here natural? Or offensively taking Russian side? 

 

What I do not understand, is some of the members laughing when Russian soldiers suffering, who have no other choice than follow orders. Humanity goes both ways, as same I can understand why many Russians believe in their leader, it doesn't mean I part with Russia!

 

Sometimes it is ok to have two thoughts in the head at same time.

 

Hate just to hate doesn't solve anything, especially sitting far away from the front safe in your couch or hammock!

 

It is also allowed to be disappointed in our leaders for what they have done wrong without being offended if someone link to previous and similar crisis, still different from this one.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Anyone here natural? Or offensively taking Russian side? 

 

What I do not understand, is some of the members laughing when Russian soldiers suffering, who have no other choice than follow orders. Humanity goes both ways, as same I can understand why many Russians believe in their leader, it doesn't mean I part with Russia!

 

Sometimes it is ok to have two thoughts in the head at same time.

 

Hate just to hate doesn't solve anything, especially sitting far away from the front safe in your couch or hammock!

 

It is also allowed to be disappointed in our leaders for what they have done wrong without being offended if someone link to previous and similar crisis, still different from this one.

I think you better go back and read some of the previous posts where they have explicitly stated they are neutral and sitting on the fence while this attack carries on.

 

Who is hating to hating?

[Berkshire]

20 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I can't imagine how anyone can still be neutral in this terror instigated by Russia. Can you really still sit on a fence and not know what side you should be on?

The Russian propaganda machine is on overdrive.  And many are buying it.  In the US, it seems the right wingers--the same morons who believed in the Big Lie--are eating it up.  There is no shortage of stupid people in the world. 

 

[Rep. Madison Cawthorn, R-N.C., called Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky a "thug" at a campaign event over the weekend.

"Remember that Zelensky is a thug," Cawthorn said in a video obtained by WRAL. "Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies."]

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-rep-cawthorn-calls-zelensky-a-thug-says-ukraine-pushing-woke-ideologies-185128786.html

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I think this rather sad actually. I believe it's also a pretext by Facebook to allow other forms of hate speech as well. FB are notorious for permitting misinformation and conspiracy theories.

I couldn't believe it when I read it to be honest, it gives permission for hate speech which will then also be used by Russia as examples of western hypocrisy. Not a good move.

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

The Russian propaganda machine is on overdrive.  And many are buying it.  In the US, it seems the right wingers--the same morons who believed in the Big Lie--are eating it up.  There is no shortage of stupid people in the world. 

 

[Rep. Madison Cawthorn, R-N.C., called Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky a "thug" at a campaign event over the weekend.

"Remember that Zelensky is a thug," Cawthorn said in a video obtained by WRAL. "Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies."]

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-rep-cawthorn-calls-zelensky-a-thug-says-ukraine-pushing-woke-ideologies-185128786.html

Is he the same Madison Cathorn who has just been caught driving while disqualified again? Anyway, I digress. The worrisome thing is that Putin will have to face a war crimes trial regardless of the outcome so I don't think he'll back down anytime soon. As the war crimes mount I see the Russian astro turfers increasingly taking a back seat. It's unfortunate that they see this site as an opportunity to spread their propaganda lies. Nobody here is neutral now. Never have been. Proclaiming so is just part of the propaganda itself.

[RJRS1301]

wonder how the Middle East and European countries dependent on Ukrainian wheat exports are viewing this invasion.

Food shortages will be felt across many nations, many of whom who are already food poor.

 

[jollyhangmon]

7 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

What I understand is that much of the defense budget over many years has been funneled away, among other things to buy super yachts in Cyprus. And everyone involved lied their @sses off. 

 

... yep, around 01:30 zulu my crib has been invaded by 3 kittens, approx. 8 weeks old, while their mom ran a successful distraction campaign. 

Over all and compared to tovarish No Toes amateurs performancewise I have seen far better planning, actual combat as well as supplies provided from the rear during this ongoing feline operation!

 

[Hummin]

32 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I think you better go back and read some of the previous posts where they have explicitly stated they are neutral and sitting on the fence while this attack carries on.

 

Who is hating to hating?

I have seen a few, who obvious want to provoke, and maybe believe in what they publish of one sided propaganda, and that is because they maybe have connection to Russia or want to believe of other reasons. It is understandable that there will be other views in a conflict like this like it or not.

 

I have seen several of the most active posters who seems to take joy by showing smileys or similar actions because of Russians losses, also understandable if you are personal engaged directly being a Ukraine, or have relatives there!

 

What I see some posters manage to write in the Koh Samui Surat Thani tread is disgusting, even I personally really do not like to have to many Russians around me where I go in Thailand, still there is innocent Russians to, and we should not condem them for what they are, but what they do here in Thailand, not what their politicians do in Russia.

 

Anyway it is not a perfect world, and it is hard to live up to it sometimes. 

 

Just decided to go home since there is a demand for experienced oil workers in the field because of the war and the  COVID situation on top of it, and have gotten several phone calls lately if I'm available.

 

The question is, did NATO by Stoltenberg and Biden hype up a situation via media that led to the war by their aggressive rhetoric before the invasion? Is it possible they forced Putin in to a corner, where he saw that as a solution because NATO became an offensive treath to Russia how they acted in Media? I do not belive we ever will the answer, but is an important question, and also an interesting one, that will be studied in the years to come.

 

One of of the podcasts I posted yesterday pointed that out without giving a conclusion?

 

But off course the easiest way is just to condemn Russia's actions and take the obvious side and post the facts and the propaganda that suits the situation without philter. Extreme to.

 

I know I'm provoking now and do not take it personal, because I agree Putin have to stop, and pay for what he have done, but. i still find it interesting to look at the problem, the crisis and the humanitarian catastrophe from different point of views. 

 

I hope Sweden and Finland/Suomi do join NATO asap, even it is possible we push Putin even further in to the corner, and the rat he is, what would he do?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I have seen a few, who obvious want to provoke, and maybe believe in what they publish of one sided propaganda, and that is because they maybe have connection to Russia or want to believe of other reasons. It is understandable that there will be other views in a conflict like this like it or not.

 

I have seen several of the most active posters who seems to take joy by showing smileys or similar actions because of Russians losses, also understandable if you are personal engaged directly being a Ukraine, or have relatives there!

 

What I see some posters manage to write in the Koh Samui Surat Thani tread is disgusting, even I personally really do not like to have to many Russians around me where I go in Thailand, still there is innocent Russians to, and we should not condem them for what they are, but what they do here in Thailand, not what their politicians do in Russia.

 

Anyway it is not a perfect world, and it is hard to live up to it sometimes. 

 

Just decided to go home since there is a demand for experienced oil workers in the field because of the war and the  COVID situation on top of it, and have gotten several phone calls lately if I'm available.

 

The question is, did NATO by Stoltenberg and Biden hype up a situation via media that led to the war by their aggressive rhetoric before the invasion? Is it possible they forced Putin in to a corner, where he saw that as a solution because NATO became an offensive treath to Russia how they acted in Media? I do not belive we ever will the answer, but is an important question, and also an interesting one, that will be studied in the years to come.

 

One of of the podcasts I posted yesterday pointed that out without giving a conclusion?

 

But off course the easiest way is just to condemn Russia's actions and take the obvious side and post the facts and the propaganda that suits the situation without philter. Extreme to.

 

I know I'm provoking now and do not take it personal, because I agree Putin have to stop, and pay for what he have done, but. i still find it interesting to look at the problem, the crisis and the humanitarian catastrophe from different point of views. 

 

I hope Sweden and Finland/Suomi do join NATO asap, even it is possible we push Putin even further in to the corner, and the rat he is, what would he do?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Odd you focus on the use of smiley emotions by people opposed to Russia’s illegal invasion but ignore those scattered about by those supporting his invasion.

 

And then you mention propaganda while parroting Russian propaganda that Biden/NATO is to blame for Russia’s illegal invasion of a sovereign nation.

 

 

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Odd you focus on the use of smiley emotions by people opposed to Russia’s illegal invasion but ignore those scattered about by those supporting his invasion.

 

And then you mention propaganda while parroting Russian propaganda that Biden/NATO is to blame for Russia’s illegal invasion of a sovereign nation.

 

 

If you read with only one colour I can understand that's what you understand from what I write. 

 

Fair enough!

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

If you read with only one colour I can understand that's what you understand from what I write. 

 

Fair enough!

Oh it’s my fault I saw your one sided view on the use of smiles and my fault I spotted your parroting Russian propaganda wrt Biden/NATO.

 

Gotchya

[Chomper Higgot]

Given that the illegal Russian invasion of a sovereign nation has now moved on to credible evidence backed reports of war crimes and atrocities against civilians, it’s worth asking what motivates individuals on this forum to support Putin; obfuscate the crimes he and the Russian military are committing, blame the victims of these crimes and parrot Russian propaganda?

 

 

 

 

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh it’s my fault I saw your one sided view on the use of smiles and my fault I spotted your parroting Russian propaganda wrt Biden/NATO.

 

Gotchya

Did you see the question mark? Did you read it is an interesting question? 

 

If you thinking and stop questioning, life is in fact easy, and all your answers is served on a silver plate! 

 

I might be bad to communicate in a different language or also maybe ask the questions the wrong way! 

 

 

[Hummin]

12 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Don't waste your time no point in trying reason with the enemy. ????

He might see me as the enemy, I do not see him as one, since we are on the same side of the table, just with an different approach and maybe different experience and understanding of the real problem.

 

I see a possible chain of reaction, he see it as a single incident, and fair enought, it is a crisis that need to be reacted on, but same time also trying to find reasons why Putin was convinced this was the only solution! 

 

I believe it is to late anyway, the train have started, and there is only one track with one end station, and that is Putin's head sooner the better! There is no way back than more chaos before it will be better!

[RJRS1301]

Have the assets of his girlfriend and familiy and child/children been frozen as well?

[Kwasaki]

33 minutes ago, Hummin said:

He might see me as the enemy, I do not see him as one, since we are on the same side of the table, just with an different approach and maybe different experience and understanding of the real problem.

 

I see a possible chain of reaction, he see it as a single incident, and fair enought, it is a crisis that need to be reacted on, but same time also trying to find reasons why Putin was convinced this was the only solution! 

 

I believe it is to late anyway, the train have started, and there is only one track with one end station, and that is Putin's head sooner the better! There is no way back than more chaos before it will be better!

Well I don't care what others quote me I would rather stay on topic than reply. 

My position still is that from the beginning right or wrong on either side there is unnecessary loss of life. 

What the Ukrainian President rhetoric has been is suicidal.

I believe he thought that NATO would come to his aid military.

That wasn't going to happen. 

 

There are reports than Putin has been planning this for many years and expected the response maybe not as much as has happened in the way of sanctions.

 

All this war is, is food for the media. 

 

I still believe that Ukraine even at this stage should surrender to terms to stop the war and loss of life. 

At some stage Putin will be overthrown and the future could then lead to a better future than the one that is happening now and the way it's heading.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Sounds ominous................

 

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Satellite photos show Russian convoy outside Kyiv appears to have dispersed to surrounding areas.

 

Some parts of the convoy have “repositioned” in forests, while others have been seen sitting on roadways in residential areas, Maxar says.

[Virt]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Sounds ominous................

 

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Satellite photos show Russian convoy outside Kyiv appears to have dispersed to surrounding areas.

 

???? I hoped that convoy were stuck for good.

Now if it's moving closer to Kyiv to surround the city, it's likely the Russians will start shelling Kyiv.

Not good.

 

Hopefully most of those 15000 anti tank weapons  and stingers sent to Ukraine are already in place in Kyiv and surrounding small towns.

 

i think we're approaching a point where NATO seriously have to interfer to stop the war crimes Russia are committing.

 

no matter the cost, we can't just sit back and look at the Russians flattening a free democratic country here in Europe, while civilians are being murdered.

 

At some point enough is enough.

 

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Well I don't care what others quote me I would rather stay on topic than reply. 

My position still is that from the beginning right or wrong on either side there is unnecessary loss of life. 

What the Ukrainian President rhetoric has been is suicidal.

I believe he thought that NATO would come to his aid military.

That wasn't going to happen. 

 

There are reports than Putin has been planning this for many years and expected the response maybe not as much as has happened in the way of sanctions.

 

All this war is, is food for the media. 

 

I still believe that Ukraine even at this stage should surrender to terms to stop the war and loss of life. 

At some stage Putin will be overthrown and the future could then lead to a better future than the one that is happening now and the way it's heading.

 

 

It is not that much different from invasion of Finland, where they gave up a huge territory to Soviet that ended in the Moscow peace treaty. 

 

Read more details here about the numbers in forces losses and support.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

[Virt]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It is not that much different from invasion of Finland, where they gave up a huge territory to Soviet that ended in the Moscow peace treaty. 

 

Read more details here about the numbers in forces losses and support.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

And do you think it was fair that Finland gave up those territories?

[Virt]

Seems like the Belarus forces are not that eager to join Putins invaders.

 

https://twitter.com/franakviacorka/status/1500197649307348994?s=20&t=yD9NTdKSbCswefZJPXfJyg

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Virt said:

???? I hoped that convoy were stuck for good.

Now if it's moving closer to Kyiv to surround the city, it's likely the Russians will start shelling Kyiv.

Not good.

 

Hopefully most of those 15000 anti tank weapons  and stingers sent to Ukraine are already in place in Kyiv and surrounding small towns.

 

i think we're approaching a point where NATO seriously have to interfer to stop the war crimes Russia are committing.

 

no matter the cost, we can't just sit back and look at the Russians flattening a free democratic country here in Europe, while civilians are being murdered.

 

At some point enough is enough.

 

I agree with you entirely, the convoy is preparing, some say this is to allow the roads to be free for other supplies to get through or maybe just their strategy is to start the final siege of Kiev, it looks like this will the old style siege too, while its circled they will bomb it to dust. 

 

Kyiv Mayor Vitali Klitschko: About half of Kyiv residents left capital since Russia’s war began. According to the latest estimates, there are just under 2 million people still in Kyiv.

 

Nato needs to step up. However there is also another possibility, very good article here on another solution with the No fly zone being enforced by the U.N.

 

Francis M. O’Donnell: UN must impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine

 

It should muster a “coalition of the willing” and craft, constitute and deploy a robust and adequately armed peacekeeping operation, using lessons learned and best practice from past operations. 

 

This would not necessarily be a NATO operation per se, but NATO members could indeed participate.  

Whether or not they do or don’t, other European, neutral, countries (Austria, Ireland, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, for example), and non-European states such as Australia, Brazil, Egypt, India, Israel, Japan, South Africa, or others, could. 

The operation should include aircover adequate to protect the delivery of humanitarian aid, the protection of civilians, and the peaceful movement, evacuation, and eventual repatriation of those at greatest risk. 

 

https://kyivindependent.com/opinion/un-must-impose-a-no-fly-zone-over-ukraine/

[Bkk Brian]

#UPDATE Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Thursday said Russian President Vladimir Putin will "lose" the war in Ukraine that he began by invading Ukraine

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1501957594616893444

 

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, Virt said:

And do you think it was fair that Finland gave up those territories?

No, not at all, I even said Ukraine shouldn't accept any territoriale loss either, neither the world should accept that Russia should just walk over them and take what they want. What I have said, Ukraine should lay down the weapons and save the civilians, but not give up the fight for their freedom and their nation.

 

Denmark did as well in WW2. 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

????????

Russia says China refuses to supply aircraft parts after sanctions

 

March 10 (Reuters) - China has refused to supply Russian airlines with aircraft parts, an official at Russia's aviation authority was quoted by Russian news agencies as saying on Thursday, after Boeing (BA.N) and Airbus (AIR.PA) halted supply of components.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-says-china-refuses-supply-aircraft-parts-after-sanctions-2022-03-10/

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, Hummin said:

No, not at all, I even said Ukraine shouldn't accept any territoriale loss either, neither the world should accept that Russia should just walk over them and take what they want. What I have said, Ukraine should lay down the weapons and save the civilians, but not give up the fight for their freedom and their nation.

 

Denmark did as well in WW2. 

 

 

Thankfully, the UK and indeed Russia did not.

[Jingthing]

39 minutes ago, Virt said:

???? I hoped that convoy were stuck for good.

Now if it's moving closer to Kyiv to surround the city, it's likely the Russians will start shelling Kyiv.

Not good.

 

Hopefully most of those 15000 anti tank weapons  and stingers sent to Ukraine are already in place in Kyiv and surrounding small towns.

 

i think we're approaching a point where NATO seriously have to interfer to stop the war crimes Russia are committing.

 

no matter the cost, we can't just sit back and look at the Russians flattening a free democratic country here in Europe, while civilians are being murdered.

 

At some point enough is enough.

 

That point was days ago!

[Virt]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

No, not at all, I even said Ukraine shouldn't accept any territoriale loss either, neither the world should accept that Russia should just walk over them and take what they want. What I have said, Ukraine should lay down the weapons and save the civilians, but not give up the fight for their freedom and their nation.

 

Denmark did as well in WW2. 

 

 

I'm proud of the danish freedom fighters in WW2.

 

Not so proud of the danish politicians that just gave up a few hours after Germany attacked Denmark the morning in April 9 1940.

 

That lead to 5 years German occupation and that's not something i want for Ukraine.

 

I was not born at these time, but the stories the elders told were enough for me to never want to be living in an occupied country.

 

They lived through a somewhat "soft" occupation, but living In a country where danish traitors worked together with the German invaders, lead to living in a country where you never knew how to trust, if you were trying to sabotage the German invaders.

We had a lot of resistance groups that lived a dangerous life and it was not easier living with traitors amongst your own kind.

 

We have a saying.

Aldrig mere en 9 april.

 

Never again an april 9.

 

I can understand why Ukraine are fighting for their freedom ...

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Thankfully, the UK and indeed Russia did not.

Indeed, a very relevant point. Take the UK for example, in WW2 there was around 66,375 civilian fatalities. One civilian death is one too many but it does put some perspective on it.

[Kwasaki]

48 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It is not that much different from invasion of Finland, where they gave up a huge territory to Soviet that ended in the Moscow peace treaty. 

 

Read more details here about the numbers in forces losses and support.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

Things in Russia have changed so much since that time.

I was thinking MacDonalds has pulled out so the Russian manager can just carry on and maybe keep the shop for the staff and himself, thanks.