Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

BBC world report Russia says it first part of the mission has finished and they are to concentrate on the east.

 

If Putin intended to concentrate on the East he would never have attacked the West. Exactly what military objective has he "accomplished"? Putin has failed and he intends to try to consolidate a land bridge between Crimea and Dombas. That will fail as well because sanctions will not be lifted and Ukraine will become ever stronger. He could probably have just held onto Crimea and Dombas had his expansionist instincts not been in play and if he had any decent advisors to speak truth to power. Now they will all be returned to Ukraine and until they do the Russian economy will contract and Putin will lose his grip on power.

[ozimoron]

“You’re in the midst of a fight between democracies and oligarchs,” the president told members of the U.S. Army’s 82nd Airborne Division as he visited their temporary headquarters. “Is democracy going to prevail and the values we share, or are autocracies going to prevail?”

 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-biden-migration-world-war-ii-warsaw-652da1c2ab1c88de3032241089bfa516

[nauseus]

16 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

If Putin intended to concentrate on the East he would never have attacked the West. Exactly what military objective has he "accomplished"? Putin has failed and he intends to try to consolidate a land bridge between Crimea and Dombas. That will fail as well because sanctions will not be lifted and Ukraine will become ever stronger. He could probably have just held onto Crimea and Dombas had his expansionist instincts not been in play and if he had any decent advisors to speak truth to power. Now they will all be returned to Ukraine and until they do the Russian economy will contract and Putin will lose his grip on power.

Yep. Som nam na!

[Kwasaki]

42 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

If Putin intended to concentrate on the East he would never have attacked the West. Exactly what military objective has he "accomplished"? Putin has failed and he intends to try to consolidate a land bridge between Crimea and Dombas. That will fail as well because sanctions will not be lifted and Ukraine will become ever stronger. He could probably have just held onto Crimea and Dombas had his expansionist instincts not been in play and if he had any decent advisors to speak truth to power. Now they will all be returned to Ukraine and until they do the Russian economy will contract and Putin will lose his grip on power.

Don't think the west attacks were aim at western arms suppliers, Kiev was to keep many troops there to defend.

What Putin wants is the eastern part of Ukraine.

 

[Bkk Brian]

56 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

BBC world report Russia says it first part of the mission has finished and they are to concentrate on the east.

 

BBC world also carries this:

 

Escalating up would mean either rebuilding the army from scratch or "opening up a can of worms" by resorting to chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.

"Either they escalate down or escalate up, but what they have now can't do the job,"

[ballpoint]

A Russian Colonel, speaking on Russian state TV (tightly controlled by Putin), has officially voiced the threat to use tactical nuclear weapons if NATO peacekeepers enter Ukraine.  The message is (paraphrased) "well, we really don't want to do this, and we know this will end up in universal nuclear war, but we really want to win this war, and, if NATO gets involved, then that's the only way we can".  Someone needs to tell these madmen that no one will win a universal nuclear war.  Crawling out of a bunker to raise your flag on a higher pile of rubble than the enemy doesn't count as winning.

 

Gen Wesley Clarke, the ex Supreme Allied Commander has stated that, rather than a Ukrainian city, a staging post in Poland would be a likely target of the nukes.  Given the way the world reacts to lil' Kim in North Korea's threats with his tiny arsenal, it will be interesting (read terrifying, frightening, horrifying and downright scary) to see how the West would respond to a tactical nuclear attack, which may be what these murderous war criminals are betting on.  Neutralising Putin and his manic warmongering hangers on would appear to be the option with the least fallout - in more ways than one.  Arming the Russian opposition groups may be a better way out than openly arming Ukraine.

 

[friendofthai]

3 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

 Someone needs to tell these madmen that no one will win a universal nuclear war

 

What does the word "universal" mean here? Does it mean that Russia will bomb China, Maldives or Seychelles? I don't think so. I think it does mean that Russia will bomb the US only. And China will be the winner of this war. So, the US will never bomb Russia with nuclear bombs. Putin knows it. 

[ballpoint]

2 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

What does the word "universal" mean here? Does it mean that Russia will bomb China, Maldives or Seychelles? I don't think so. I think it does mean that Russia will bomb the US only. And China will be the winner of this war. So, the US will never bomb Russia with nuclear bombs. Putin knows it. 

Yes, it's okay for Russia to bomb Ukraine, Poland, the Baltic States, or anyone else that doesn't have nuclear weapons, because no one will be willing to escalate by bombing Russia.  This madman must be stopped.

[Kwasaki]

49 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Yes, it's okay for Russia to bomb Ukraine, Poland, the Baltic States, or anyone else that doesn't have nuclear weapons, because no one will be willing to escalate by bombing Russia.  This madman must be stopped.

Agree Putin should be stopped who got the balls to do so, EU are still buying oil.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Agree Putin should be stopped who got the balls to do so, EU are still buying oil.

Ukraine army, air force, defense volunteers with military equipment help from EU, Nato and the US has already stopped Russia in their quest for a total invasion, didn't you hear?

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

BBC world report Russia says it first part of the mission has finished and they are to concentrate on the east.

 

So after all this time posting on an Asia based forum the concept of ‘saving face’ has managed to elude you.

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Agree Putin should be stopped who got the balls to do so, EU are still buying oil.

Putin maintains power through projecting strength, power and fear.

 

The Ukrainians have shown they can overcome their fear and by doing so have exposed Russia’s, and therefore Putin’s weakness.

 

A tyrant cannot maintain power once he is exposed as weak.

 

The Russians will put a stop to Putin before Putin puts a stop to the Russians.

[coolcarer]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

BBC world report Russia says it first part of the mission has finished and they are to concentrate on the east.

 

Didn’t you post previously more than once if I remember correctly advocating that Ukraine should surrender to stop the invasion as it was voluntary suicide as you put it? You should perhaps revisit some of your previous posts but perhaps changing the goal posts as Putin has done suits you better now.

[Chris.B]

32 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Agree Putin should be stopped who got the balls to do so, EU are still buying oil.

Take out the nuclear, biological and chemical and the odds are looking quite favourable.

 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, coolcarer said:

Didn’t you post previously more than once if I remember correctly advocating that Ukraine should surrender to stop the invasion as it was voluntary suicide as you put it? You should perhaps revisit some of your previous posts but perhaps changing the goal posts as Putin has done suits you better now.

Yes I did and suggested it to save life and I stand by it.

Bit late now though the only hope is Putin is overuled.

[placeholder]

 

8 hours ago, friendofthai said:

Mariupol is the home for the Azov group, which is the most desirable target for the Kremlin propaganda. Many people from the Putin`s party in the Russian parliament are sure that showing these gentlemen from the Azov to the world will reverse the opinions regarding who is good and who is bad in this war.

Yes, the Azov group is a potent political force in Ukraine. During the last elections in a coalition with 2 other right wing nationalist parties its defacto political party won a whopping 2.5% of the vote in parliamentary elections. Its leader actually was voted out of office.

 

"The National Corps (Ukrainian: Національний корпус, romanized: Natsionalnyi korpus), also known as the National Corps Party, and previously called the Patriots of Ukraine, is a far-right political party in Ukraine founded in 2016 and currently led by Andriy Biletsky.[3][4] The party was created by veterans of the Azov Battalion and members of the Azov Civil Corps, a civilian non-governmental organization affiliated with the Azov Battalion.[5]

During its campaign for the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election, the party formed a united radical right nationwide-party list with the Governmental Initiative of Yarosh, the Right Sector, and Svoboda.[6]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Corps

[coolcarer]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yes I did and suggested it to save life and I stand by it.

Bit late now though the only hope is Putin is overuled.

I see, Putin can terrorize and invade any country he wants, shell, bomb, kill civilians and your suggestion is that the first plan of action is to surrender.

 

Fortunately the people of Ukraine fought for their freedom now and for future generations. They will continue to do so until they have won which is looking increasingly likely.

[heybruce]

Russia has been humiliated but not defeated, and still has lots of military power it can bring to bear on Ukraine.  It remains to be seen if the latest re-definition of objectives is an attempt at a face-saving withdrawal or a distraction to buy time to prepare for worst attacks.

[Kwasaki]

9 hours ago, coolcarer said:

I see, Putin can terrorize and invade any country he wants, shell, bomb, kill civilians and your suggestion is that the first plan of action is to surrender.

 

Fortunately the people of Ukraine fought for their freedom now and for future generations. They will continue to do so until they have won which is looking increasingly likely.

Putin has his own agenda and it needs the people of Russia to stop him Ukraine cannot.

 

2 sides to every story and I hope your right. 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Putin has his own agenda and it needs the people of Russia to stop him Ukraine cannot.

 

2 sides to every story and I hope your right. 

Most crazies have their own agenda and Ukraine has already stopped him and, in some cases, reversed him.

[coolcarer]

10 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Putin has his own agenda and it needs the people of Russia to stop him Ukraine cannot.

 

2 sides to every story and I hope your right. 

Had they followed your advice that you still stand by, Ukraine would have already shown the white flag and lost 3 weeks ago with Putin having achieved his illegal goals and conquered a sovereign nation. God help the world if people thought so little about fighting for their freedom and the freedom of generations to come

[farmerjo]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Most crazies have their own agenda and Ukraine has already stopped him and, in some cases, reversed him.

This is where our views differ.

Ukraine hasn't stopped him,NATO's weapon supplies have.

How long do you think it will be before the arms supplies are slowed to a few shipments of bullets.

For any peace to occur which should be everyone's goal,Ukraine will not be left with an arsenal of NATO weapons.

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, coolcarer said:

Had they followed your advice that you still stand by, Ukraine would have already shown the white flag and lost 3 weeks ago with Putin having achieved his illegal goals and conquered a sovereign nation. God help the world if people thought so little about fighting for their freedom and the freedom of generations to come

I would be careful to declare victory, before we know the price paid, and it is over! This war will have consequences for decades to come, and if NATO will intervene, then?

 

 

[RJRS1301]

5 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

This is where our views differ.

Ukraine hasn't stopped him,NATO's weapon supplies have.

How long do you think it will be before the arms supplies are slowed to a few shipments of bullets.

For any peace to occur which should be everyone's goal,Ukraine will not be left with an arsenal of NATO weapons.

It was the heart of the Ukrainian people who have stood up to a tyrant which is hopefully going to win through.

Without NATO backing into the future, the tyrant could walk back in during the rebuilding phase, and also will possibly hold those reportedly deported to Russia as "human shields" to bargain for its own ends.

Russia needs to wrest the power back from this dangerous piece of detritus

 

[coolcarer]

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I would be careful to declare victory, before we know the price paid, and it is over! This war will have consequences for decades to come, and if NATO will intervene, then?

 

 

Oh I agree. I was addressing the white flag brigade that would have thrown in the towel at the very start. That said victory of sorts has already occurred with his initial plans of conquering Ukraine within a few days in tatters. How this plays out from here still has many scenarios and we have no idea what Putin is really planning, whatever he spouts out cannot be trusted.

 

He has also lost in his objectives of the NATO threat as NATO are now stronger than ever before. Russia is doomed for many years to come as a result of his war of choice.

[delgarcon]

7 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Oh I agree. I was addressing the white flag brigade that would have thrown in the towel at the very start. That said victory of sorts has already occurred with his initial plans of conquering Ukraine within a few days in tatters. How this plays out from here still has many scenarios and we have no idea what Putin is really planning, whatever he spouts out cannot be trusted.

 

He has also lost in his objectives of the NATO threat as NATO are now stronger than ever before. Russia is doomed for many years to come as a result of his war of choice.

Let's hope that there are "many years to come!"

[Bkk Brian]

22 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

This is where our views differ.

Ukraine hasn't stopped him,NATO's weapon supplies have.

How long do you think it will be before the arms supplies are slowed to a few shipments of bullets.

For any peace to occur which should be everyone's goal,Ukraine will not be left with an arsenal of NATO weapons.

Nonsense, Ukraine's people and spirit along with help from allies with arms have stopped him. He said he was going there to liberate Ukraine, however he forgot to ask them first.

 

Long term Ukraine will remain a sovereign country and as such has a right to have its own military with a size and arsenal as it see's fit. They kept to their promise years ago to ditch nuclear weapons. There is no way on earth they will agree to a downsizing of their own army in any peace talks.

[Kwasaki]

49 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Had they followed your advice that you still stand by, Ukraine would have already shown the white flag and lost 3 weeks ago with Putin having achieved his illegal goals and conquered a sovereign nation. God help the world if people thought so little about fighting for their freedom and the freedom of generations to come

It's not over yet that's the sad thing about it and why it all came about.

The economic's of the western world will suffer for years because of the gunho attitude.

The way past world affairs have been dealt with is now showing how wrong they are with there policing.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Putin has his own agenda and it needs the people of Russia to stop him Ukraine cannot.

 

2 sides to every story and I hope your right. 

The Ukrainians have demolished Putin’s hopes of a quick victory, humiliated the Russian military and exposed Putin as weak and dangerously fallible.

 

Of course the Russians will deal with Putin. but when they do it will because and only because of the Ukrainian’s fight for their liberty.

 

A fight you have continually spoken against.

 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, farmerjo said:

This is where our views differ.

Ukraine hasn't stopped him,NATO's weapon supplies have.

How long do you think it will be before the arms supplies are slowed to a few shipments of bullets.

For any peace to occur which should be everyone's goal,Ukraine will not be left with an arsenal of NATO weapons.

Do you believe Russia's propaganda that Ukrainians are just Russians with a different flag? Of course Ukraine stopped him, they hate him and now they hate Russians even more because of him. The Holomodor was too long ago for most to remember, now they have new memories of Russian aggression and brutality.