26 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

A true Democrat!!!

More like a true patriot. I remember when politicians used to do something because it was the right thing to do, not because of their blind and toxic allegiance to a morally bankrupt political party. 

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 

Refer televised hearings.

 

And the public record:

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/first-trial-of-capitol-rioters-ends-with-conviction-all-counts

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/29/us-capitol-attack-oath-keeper-guilty-seditious-conspiracy

37 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

They are all out to get Trump no matter what it takes.

Right.  It's all personal and has nothing to do with Trump's ignorance, incompetence, dishonesty, and blatant attempt to overturn a legitimate election attempt.

35 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

 

4 died on the day, one shot by police as they tried to breach the house chamber, one from a heart attack, one from a stampede in the surge when they were pushing against police and another from a stroke.

 

A police officer also died the following day after being attacked by the mob on the 6th

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/05/us/politics/jan-6-capitol-deaths.html

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

4 died on the day, one shot by police as they tried to breach the house chamber, one from a heart attack, one from a stampede in the surge when they were pushing against police and another from a stroke.

 

A police officer also died the following day after being attacked by the mob on the 6th

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/05/us/politics/jan-6-capitol-deaths.html

Normally I would never believe the NYT. what ever they say, now leaving out the heart attack and stroke and leaving out the stampede death we are left with the death of a police man and a young lady that was shot an killed by a police man. Please tell us more on the death of the police man that was attacked by the mob.on the sixth of Jan. 

6 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Normally I would never believe the NYT. what ever they say, now leaving out the heart attack and stroke and leaving out the stampede death we are left with the death of a police man and a young lady that was shot an killed by a police man. Please tell us more on the death of the police man that was attacked by the mob.on the sixth of Jan. 

Not really my problem if you never normally believe the NYT, look in previous pages of this very thread for other links to the same info. 

 

For further info on the Policeman, if you are so interested then please feel free to search and report back, I'm not your personal Google

17 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Normally I would never believe the NYT. what ever they say, now leaving out the heart attack and stroke and leaving out the stampede death we are left with the death of a police man and a young lady that was shot an killed by a police man. Please tell us more on the death of the police man that was attacked by the mob.on the sixth of Jan. 

If I dare interfere... why should he do that? Aren't you able to do it by yourself instead of having other posters lose their time for meeting your information needs? It seems to be a noticeable trend in this thread.

39 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

A police officer also died the following day after being attacked by the mob on the 6th

Officer Attacked in Capitol Riot Died of Strokes, Medical Examiner Rules

The determination is likely to complicate efforts to prosecute anyone in the death of the officer, Brian Sicknick.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/19/us/politics/brian-sicknick-death.html

 

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

If the prosecution can't prove you DID mean it.......... they lose. 

 

That is a nonsense and proof is not needed of intent, just proof that the threat was uttered.

 

Of course one could argue that the erecting of a hangman's noose and several rioters dressed in combat gear and carrying "wrist ties", meant that they were there for a picnic – – yeah right. Get real.

9 minutes ago, bocaBob said:

Officer Attacked in Capitol Riot Died of Strokes, Medical Examiner Rules

The determination is likely to complicate efforts to prosecute anyone in the death of the officer, Brian Sicknick.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/19/us/politics/brian-sicknick-death.html

 

Also from the NYT

 

The Washington medical examiner later ruled that he had died of natural causes: multiple strokes that occurred hours after Officer Sicknick’s confrontation with the mob. The medical examiner added, however, that “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”

Here is one of the more authoritative, up to date tallies of the deaths associated with the Jan. 6 Capital Riot... The total number attributed is going to depend on whether you include the post-riot police officer suicides that occurred.  5 deaths without the suicides. 9 total if you include the suicides. There were no "murders" associated with the riot.

 

How Many Died as a Result of Capitol Riot?

Posted on November 1, 2021 | Updated on March 21, 2022

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/how-many-died-as-a-result-of-capitol-riot/

 

My recap of the above report:

 

Four on the day of the riot:

--one female protester shot and killed by police while trying to climb thru a broken-out glass section of a door inside the stormed Capitol Building to get to where the lawmakers had taken shelter. The shooting was investigated and the officer was cleared of any wrongdoing.

 

--two cases of heart attacks / heart failure by men who had come to D.C. for the Trump rallies that occurred in the area of the riot.

 

--one drug overdose death by a woman protester inside the Capitol building. (The final medical examiner's report on this contradicted the prior reporting by the NYT cited here in earlier posts about her having been crushed by protesters).

 

The day after the riot:

--A Capitol police officer who had been attacked and injured during the riot died after suffering two strokes.

 

--Four suicides: Four other police officers who had deployed in connection with the riot committed suicide in the days and months after the riot.

 

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Refer televised hearings.

 

And the public record:

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/first-trial-of-capitol-rioters-ends-with-conviction-all-counts

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/29/us-capitol-attack-oath-keeper-guilty-seditious-conspiracy

 Your links refer to individuals that have pleaded guilty to two different charges but neither of these is Trump.

 

I think everyone knows that there was a radical minority making trouble on Jan 6th, some of it violent and much of it criminal.

 

But is Trump himself guilty of sedition? As he was asking people to protest "patriotically and peacefully", then the answer is no.   

Also, more posts containing misinformation, unsourced and/or unsubstantiated claims, and attempts at off-topic diversion have been edited or removed, along with ensuing replies.

44 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 Your links refer to individuals that have pleaded guilty to two different charges but neither of these is Trump.

 

I think everyone knows that there was a radical minority making trouble on Jan 6th, some of it violent and much of it criminal.

 

But is Trump himself guilty of sedition? As he was asking people to protest "patriotically and peacefully", then the answer is no.   

Well, as usual, Trump made several statements leaning one way or another.

 

There is also the disturbing coincidence of organising a protest near the Capitol and an attempt to overturn the results of elections, using fake electors, etc... as found out by the committee.

 

Finally, on the Capitol events themselves, even if his statements did not explicitly called for storming the Capitol, there may be other charges. The accusation may not be sedition, but failure to act. He did not ask rioters to stop from the start of the assault. Trump waited 2 hours after the assault before telling rioters to leave. There is now an accumulation of evidence (emails, phone data, testimonies) about what Trump did and said during the riot. If the testimonies, and other evidence which are going to be presented, can show that he knew what was happening and failed his presidential duty to protect the constitution, it can be a clear case of failure to act in order to stop the riot, or even of complicity.

51 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 Your links refer to individuals that have pleaded guilty to two different charges but neither of these is Trump.

 

I think everyone knows that there was a radical minority making trouble on Jan 6th, some of it violent and much of it criminal.

 

But is Trump himself guilty of sedition? As he was asking people to protest "patriotically and peacefully", then the answer is no.   

Trump, as CIC, had a duty to prevent the riots and yet did not attempt to do so. Whatever you believe or not about his intent prior to the riots, his actions willfully aided ad abetted them.

57 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 Your links refer to individuals that have pleaded guilty to two different charges but neither of these is Trump.

 

I think everyone knows that there was a radical minority making trouble on Jan 6th, some of it violent and much of it criminal.

 

But is Trump himself guilty of sedition? As he was asking people to protest "patriotically and peacefully", then the answer is no.   

If you can tell me how "fight like hell" can be translated into "patriotically and peacefully", please let me switch my BS meter off first. It's getting overworked on this thread.

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Trump, as CIC, had a duty to prevent the riots and yet did not attempt to do so. Whatever you believe or not about his intent prior to the riots, his actions willfully aided ad abetted them.

If, at this point in time, some people still don't grasp the fact that trump did his best (which, luckily, has never been very good) to overturn the election and subvert democracy there really is no hope for you. You have willfully chosen to disregard facts and to subscribe to insane conspiracy theories because reality doesn't conform to your liking.

trump was the C-in-C and the ultimate protector of the US and by trying to overturn the election he committed treason of the worst kind.

He should pay the ultimate price.

3 hours ago, vandeventer said:

 

Isn't it a joke that those who call themself 'conservative' HATE democracy and every ideal for which the US is supposed to stand. They lack the intellect both to appreciate the idiocy of their mendacious messianic moron 45, and to appreciate the ideals for which far superior and patriotic citizens fought for over the last 246 years,

 

Apparently, in today's lexicon, 'conservative' means traitor. These types also have as their hero a coward who ran to the WH bunker even when a small Code Pink protest materialized outside the WH gates.

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

If you can tell me how "fight like hell" can be translated into "patriotically and peacefully", please let me switch my BS meter off first. It's getting overworked on this thread.

If you can show me how this "fight like hell" reference was meant to be to taken in a violent and illegal way then fine.

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If you can show me how this "fight like hell" reference was meant to be to taken in a violent and illegal way then fine.

You mean like we shouldn't take his claim of having bone spurs seriously? Right, gotcha!

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Lorenzo Boyd, a former director of the Center for Advanced Policing at the University of New Haven, called attempts to downplay the deadliness of the weapons used on Jan. 6 a "false narrative."

 

"I've talked to officers who have done two tours in Iraq who said this was scarier to them than their time in combat," Robert J. Contee III, the acting chief of Washington, D.C.'s Metropolitan Police Department, said in January.

 

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

Isn't it a joke that those who call themself 'conservative' HATE democracy and every ideal for which the US is supposed to stand. They lack the intellect both to appreciate the idiocy of their mendacious messianic moron 45, and to appreciate the ideals for which far superior and patriotic citizens fought for over the last 246 years,

 

Apparently, in today's lexicon, 'conservative' means traitor. These types also have as their hero a coward who ran to the WH bunker even when a small Code Pink protest materialized outside the WH gates.

I was in Vietnam in 1967-68 where were you? I love America but not what you Democrats are doing to it. You will see in November just how good you are doing, maybe you will change your thinking.

the LIE that is even bigger than the stolen election BS?

 

Equal justice for all

 

If that is even remotely true there will be a lot of people charged and convicted of crimes to include the head con man...there is more than enough evidence often in their own words on emails or video tapes not to mention first hand testimony by a wide variety of people of both parties  who were present while crimes were being committed....the DOJ needs to do it's job and indict the con man and his coup crew and let a judge and jury  decide their fate.

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 Your links refer to individuals that have pleaded guilty to two different charges but neither of these is Trump.

 

I think everyone knows that there was a radical minority making trouble on Jan 6th, some of it violent and much of it criminal.

 

But is Trump himself guilty of sedition? As he was asking people to protest "patriotically and peacefully", then the answer is no.   

I beg your pardon.

14 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

I was in Vietnam in 1967-68 where were you? I love America but not what you Democrats are doing to it. You will see in November just how good you are doing, maybe you will change your thinking.

Pinned.

16 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

I was in Vietnam in 1967-68 where were you? I love America but not what you Democrats are doing to it. You will see in November just how good you are doing, maybe you will change your thinking.

Well  unlike you,  "bone spurred" Trump wasn't in Vietnam! ????

38 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

You mean like we shouldn't take his claim of having bone spurs seriously? Right, gotcha!

No. I mean fighting like hell for things like your own life in an ICU, or anything else that you value dearly. Fighting like hell does not necessarily have to mean or infer law-breaking, or physical violence. It's quite a commonly accepted figure of speech. You may have heard of it. 

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No. I mean fighting like hell for things like your own life in an ICU, or anything else that you value dearly. Fighting like hell does not necessarily have to mean or infer law-breaking, or physical violence. It's quite a commonly accepted figure of speech. You may have heard of it. 

The fanatical Trump supporters heard it loud and clear, then went directly to the Capitol to attempt a violent overthrow of the lawful democratic process of declaring the election result.

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No. I mean fighting like hell for things like your own life in an ICU, or anything else that you value dearly. Fighting like hell does not necessarily have to mean or infer law-breaking, or physical violence. It's quite a commonly accepted figure of speech. You may have heard of it. 

Quite correct so it all depends on the context and situation. When a coach tells his sports team to go out there and fight like hell we all know what he means.

But when a sitting president falsely claims the election was stolen and he urges his most ardent supporters (all fired up and not exactly mental giants) to march on the Capitol and fight like hell I'd say the chances of them taking his words literally are a solid 100%. Which they did, and people died.

Get it now?

 

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Yes, Capitol Rioters Were Armed. Here Are The Weapons Prosecutors Say They Used

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used