Something changed with the fuel?!

[transam]

10 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

im pretty sure PTT doesnt do any fishy thing but i also witnessed by my own eyes that PTT stations in small very small places add some water in it... 

but yes, as you said i can feel and see that my fuel consumption is higher than before. 

i was thinking they might add/mix something to avoid global fuel shortage or something like this

Water in the petrol......????

[petermik]

I use E20 in my Nissan Sylphy at Bangchak Stations and performance has never altered......consistently averaging around 19kms/litre on a long run.

[Kwasaki]

24 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

hi,

thanks for the suggestions. 

I compare the kilo distance with the kilo i still can go and the kilo i already gone. For example if im making 60km per a day, for 4 days i need at least 240km + 50km (traffic + lights + etc.) = 290 this is my calculation for my home-work. 

agree about e20 and 95. Thats why im trying to use 95. perfect balance for car performance and budget. 

about fuel im using.. well mostly 95 but these days its E20

there are nothing with the fuel tank or else, no leak. Its in perfect condition. 

ECU and all are ok. 

tbh i started to think maybe i stuck in the traffic longer than i think. 

Something else I forgot to mention was some drivers are unaware of extra fuel used with the use of the air-con in a vehicle.

 

Its been very hot recently so I don't know about other but air-con in my truck is cranked up much more during this time of the year. 

 

A certain % of extra fuel will be used when cranking up the air-con. 

[spidermike007]

I also have a CX30. Was informed that E20 and E85 were not as good for the engine as gasohol 95. What about 91, by comparison? Seems to be about the same price as 95.

 

Anyone have any clear answers on that? 

[Kwasaki]

Just now, spidermike007 said:

I also have a CX30. Was informed that E20 and E85 were not as good for the engine as gasohol 95. What about 91, by comparison? Seems to be about the same price as 95.

 

Anyone have any clear answers on that? 

I would just say you've been told nonsense by the uneducated.

 

Believe your manufacturers handbook would be my answer.

[digbeth]

don't trust your car computer, unless you are doing full tank to full tank fill up then take the calculation of distance used against the litre filled

[spidermike007]

34 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I would just say you've been told nonsense by the uneducated.

 

Believe your manufacturers handbook would be my answer.

It says unleaded fuel, no more than 10% ethanol. Or unleaded 91, in the US. Not much help here. The dealer suggested only using 95 or 91. And avoiding E20 like the plague. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by spidermike007

[ExpatOilWorker]

My city milage have dropped from 5 km/l to about 3.9 km/l since 2022 in city driving.

I exclusively use PTT 95 gasohol, so I am seeing the same trend as you.

I am about to do a long highway road trip, so will careful watch the milage and report back.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

In Brazil my 1l flex fuel VW got about 600kms on a tank of petrol (27% ethanol) but only about 450 on Alcool (100% Ethanol) not really 100% as they add something to stop people drinking it.

No such thing as 100% alcohol outside a laboratory, it's an azeotrope of 95% ethanol, 5% water in industrial applications.

 

It's possible the OP may be getting diddled by the gas station. Fuels are a mixture of hydrocarbon, ethanol, and water as an unavoidable impurity. It's called a ternary mixture, if I remember my phase diagrams correctly. The mixture will separate into two phases if too much water is present.

 

Some unscrupulous operators can add just enough water to avoid phase separation, which means extra profit can be made by selling the doctored gasoline.

I'm not saying that is what is happening to the OP. However, it would explain why his fuel consumption has increased.

 

I would suggest changing fuel stations, and monitoring if the fuel consumption improves. Usually high volume busy operations are better.

 

I did hear some years ago of a village near Lampang, where the fuel seller got too greedy. IIRC, had a lot of

scooter owners who were not impressed when their scooters tried to run on water.

[Kwasaki]

37 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It says unleaded fuel, no more than 10% ethanol. Or unleaded 91, in the US. Not much help here. The dealer suggested only using 95 or 91. And avoiding E20 like the plague. 

Your handbook is your help the dealership is right in your case if the handbook says fuel no more than 10% ethanol then unleaded petroleum, E91 and E95 are the fuels you can use. ????

[thaitom]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Something else I forgot to mention was some drivers are unaware of extra fuel used with the use of the air-con in a vehicle.

 

Its been very hot recently so I don't know about other but air-con in my truck is cranked up much more during this time of the year. 

 

A certain % of extra fuel will be used when cranking up the air-con. 

MythBusters busted that myth

[Kwasaki]

30 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

My city milage have dropped from 5 km/l to about 3.9 km/l since 2022 in city driving.

I exclusively use PTT 95 gasohol, so I am seeing the same trend as you.

I am about to do a long highway road trip, so will careful watch the milage and report back.

Leave your air-con off and see the difference. ????

[ExpatOilWorker]

Apparently gasohol E20 was introduced from March 2020.

Did PTT switch to 20% ethanol without really telling us?

 

Thailand has five categories of petrol at retail pumps: gasohol 91 E10, gasohol 95 E10, E20, E85 and premium ULP 95 petrol.

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by ExpatOilWorker

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, thaitom said:

MythBusters busted that myth

Think you need to 'fact check' your 'fact checkers' ...

 

"Using a vehicle's air-conditioning system increases its fuel consumption more than any other auxiliary feature. An air-conditioning (a/c) system can increase fuel consumption by up to 20% because of the extra load on the engine."

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy-efficiency/transportation-alternative-fuels/personal-vehicles/choosing-right-vehicle/tips-buying-fuel-efficient-vehicle/factors-affect-fuel-efficiency/vehicle-air-conditioning/21030

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Apparently gasohol E20 was introduced from March 2022.

Did PTT switch to 20% ethanol without really telling us?

 

Thailand has five categories of petrol at retail pumps: gasohol 91 E10, gasohol 95 E10, E20, E85 and premium ULP 95 petrol.

E85 & E20 were definitely here in Sept 2020, and pretty sure, quite a bit early.

[problemfarang]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

I also have a CX30. Was informed that E20 and E85 were not as good for the engine as gasohol 95. What about 91, by comparison? Seems to be about the same price as 95.

 

Anyone have any clear answers on that? 

cannot use 91 for cx30.

like i said im using 95. i suggest that to you too.

[problemfarang]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Something else I forgot to mention was some drivers are unaware of extra fuel used with the use of the air-con in a vehicle.

 

Its been very hot recently so I don't know about other but air-con in my truck is cranked up much more during this time of the year. 

 

A certain % of extra fuel will be used when cranking up the air-con. 

yes, AC is something in my mind. And yes the weather is hot these days and im using the AC high level.

[transam]

2 hours ago, thaitom said:

Storage tanks sweeping water ? Old storage tanks ? My mind has been thinking what it could be.  Wife just says try a different place .....

..............wiv no water added...........????

[transam]

14 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

E85 & E20 were definitely here in Sept 2020, and pretty sure, quite a bit early.

E20 has been here since around 2008, my E20 car is near 8 years old, designed to run on E20... ......

[Kwasaki]

38 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

cannot use 91 for cx30.

like i said im using 95. i suggest that to you too.

Cx30 can use E10 91 rated fuel just don't keep switching from one fuel to the other is a recommendation.

[problemfarang]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Cx30 can use E10 91 rated fuel just don't keep switching from one fuel to the other is a recommendation.

im not sure. When i clearly asked the dealer what should i use.. he answered me E85 / 95 / E20 nothing else. i also checked the book and manual all, they also saying these 3. 

so i will stick with 95. im really happy with it but my wallet is not. lol

[FriendlyFarang]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Cx30 can use E10 91 rated fuel just don't keep switching from one fuel to the other is a recommendation.

The Thai manual of the current CX30 says at least 95 octane, so better don't use 91. Might of course be different for older models.

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

im not sure. When i clearly asked the dealer what should i use.. he answered me E85 / 95 / E20 nothing else. i also checked the book and manual all, they also saying these 3. 

so i will stick with 95. im really happy with it but my wallet is not. lol

Good call, I'm only trying g help. ????

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

The Thai manual of the current CX30 says at least 95 octane, so better don't use 91. Might of course be different for older models.

Octane rating for E10 91 is OK but use E10 95 by all means up to you. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

Small side note, but ethanol have an octane rating of 113, so it is relative easy for refineries to make 95 gasohol.

[Kwasaki]

29 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

The Thai manual of the current CX30 says at least 95 octane, so better don't use 91. Might of course be different for older models.

Well E20 is up to about 98 octane so go figure. 

cx30 users stick with E10 95 and be happy.

Not a very versatile engine on fuels but reliable.

[VocalNeal]

16 hours ago, Lacessit said:

No such thing as 100% alcohol outside a laboratory, it's an azeotrope of 95% ethanol, 5% water in industrial applications.

Marketed as Alcool and not tagged E100. 

Quote

The ethanol fuel used in Brazil is distilled close to the azeotrope mixture of 95.63% ethanol and 4.37% water (by weight) which is approximately 3.5% water by volume.

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by VocalNeal

[ExpatOilWorker]

19 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

My city milage have dropped from 5 km/l to about 3.9 km/l since 2022 in city driving.

I exclusively use PTT 95 gasohol, so I am seeing the same trend as you.

I am about to do a long highway road trip, so will careful watch the milage and report back.

I just did a 475 km highway trip with an average consumption of 11.6 km/l which match previous usage, so I can't fault PTT fuel.

The extra city consumption is probably just due to traffic congestion and longer travel time.

Edited June 26, 2022 by ExpatOilWorker

[Kwasaki]

16 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I just did a 475 km highway trip with an average consumption of 11.6 km/l which match previous usage, so I can't fault PTT fuel.

The extra city consumption is probably just do to traffic congestion and longer travel time.

You were giving it some then. ????

[JAS21]

8 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I just did a 475 km highway trip with an average consumption of 11.6 km/l which match previous usage, so I can't fault PTT fuel.

The extra city consumption is probably just due to traffic congestion and longer travel time.

That is a pretty reasonable for a 3Ltr petrol E39, especially if you were giving it some .. guess you were ????