The REAL EV vehicle discussion thread.....

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Then give a longer warrantee, so folk buy more EV's, simple, why don't they..?

why not just give everyone free cars .... ????

 

Again, did you start the thread just to troll as the other threads died, and you were being ignored. ????

[transam]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

why not just give everyone free cars .... ????

 

Again, did you start the thread just to troll as the other threads died, and you were being ignored. ????

That post just shows you cannot deal with any points put forward, whether pros or cons for EV's.

 

Troll, I don't think so, on the other thread my points/posts were deleted by folk reporting me because the OP demanding it was Thai related EV's.  ????

 

This thread doesn't have that restriction, so buckle up, chap...????

 

PS. Please don't troll the thread though, there's a good chap........????

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

That post just shows you cannot deal with any points put forward, whether pros or cons for EV's.

 

Troll, I don't think so, on the other thread my points/posts were deleted by folk reporting me because the OP demanding it was Thai related EV's.  ????

 

This thread doesn't have that restriction, so buckle up, chap...????

 

PS. Please don't troll the thread though, there's a good chap........????

IIRC, my comparison of EV's and ICE's debunking some of the EV mythology was removed as well from said thread, the OP only wanted to preach to the converted.

[KhunLA]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

That post just shows you cannot deal with any points put forward, whether pros or cons for EV's.

 

Troll, I don't think so, on the other thread my points/posts were deleted by folk reporting me because the OP demanding it was Thai related EV's.  ????

 

This thread doesn't have that restriction, so buckle up, chap...????

 

PS. Please don't troll the thread though, there's a good chap........????

That's all fine and dandy, but are you going to change your 'spin'.

 

Still implying the cars are dead after the warranty.

Still implying they depreciate to -0- faster than ICEs

 

And still asking silly questions you know the answers to;

'does MG has battery swap'

 

Yes, the EV/Thailand thread was geared to what's available, what's coming, simply EVs in Thailand.    Not EVs vs ICEs which it turned into....again.

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by KhunLA

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, transam said:

That was one of my points, for those who change their ride ever say 3 years, probably not a problem, but for those who hang onto their ride, a big problem..

I think the act of 'changing your car with your underwear' may be one of the facets of the good old days that this renewables craze is factoring to eliminate in their earth-saving mantra. I would imagine that they would aim for the same average churn of EV cars as in ICE world (say 8 years and/or 400,000 km) and then as prices align, ICE's are phased out and EV reliability and sustainability issues become known and manageable, people will be incentivized to keep an otherwise perfectly good 'motor' for longer. Anyone wishing to jump on this years model after maybe 3 years of current ownership may have some financial penalty added or maybe a half-sized battery so they don't tootle about so much and have to think more about their vehicle usage.

 

Otherwise, it's still all hypothetical right now. Whatever MG, Toyota or Haval are quoting in the current EV market cannot realistically be taken as a point of reference moving forward.

Edited June 26, 2022 by NanLaew

[RanongCat]

In 8 year battery tech maybe better different same as last 8 year. Warranty/guarantee on battery does not mean is dead on day after 8 years.

[transam]

21 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That's all fine and dandy, but are you going to change your 'spin'.

 

Still implying the cars are dead after the warranty.

Still implying they depreciate to -0- faster than ICEs

 

And still asking silly questions you know the answers to;

'does MG has battery swap'

 

Yes, the EV/Thailand thread was geared to what's available, what's coming, simply EVs in Thailand.    Not EVs vs ICEs which it turned into....again.

 

 

 

You are twisting my words, very naughty, but understandable...

[KhunLA]

6 hours ago, transam said:

That was one of my points, for those who change their ride ever say 3 years, probably not a problem, but for those who hang onto their ride, a big problem..

For me, in the USA, with few exception, my cars didn't last long, and 3 yrs tops.  

 

Here for some reason, 3 new in 20 yrs, 2 Vios, 1 Mazda 2.  Actually would have kept the M2 longer, but having a few baht more than I need, and daughter needing a car, we upgraded to something more comfy, mainly lack of road noise.  But all around a more comfy ride.  Other 3 were fine, bit noisy, but served us well.

 

Really loving our MG ZS, in case I haven't said it enough already.  Does suck up the petrol though, 11 kpL.  And with the EV's, ฿240k incentive (1 yr too late), switching to the EV is easy, no risk of being unhappy with the car, hopefully.

 

MG EP was even ฿180k cheaper, but wife didn't like the seating position ????

There spec'd about the same, just one called a 'station wagon' vs 'SUV' ????

 

Image is everything.  As posted already, numbers work out great for us, especially with solar at the house.

 

For us, it's a keeper till I c r a p out at least, and if I last as long as the warranty, that will make me the older person in my immediate family line ????

Got a cousin who is 83, so that's reassuring.  

 

If on the road, long distance a lot, or no solar, or change cars every 3 ish years, then EV may not be for some.  Obviously if can't charge at home, definitely wouldn't work.

 

Cost per km, PEA or solar, and extensive CS network (no Qs for now), so not too many reason not to buy, especially if keeping for at least the warranty.

 

MG EP, ฿771, not much more than some ICEs, especially if imported, then probably cheaper. 

 

GWM & NETA and more coming on the market this and next few years.  Various hybrids already available, then the high end imports are already here also.  Plenty of choice.

 

 

 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Then give a longer warrantee, so folk buy more EV's, simple, why don't they..?

You could just as easily ask why ICE vehicle manufacturers don't offer a longer warranty.

 

As the article I mentioned points out, they only give (on average) a vehicle drivetrain warranty of 5 years or 60,000 miles.

 

Why don't they give a warranty that would last as long as most drivetrains do?

 

I actually don't know the answer for sure, but I suspect that manufacturers of both EV's and ICE vehicles do not offer a warranty that covers the normal expected total lifetime of their products because they don't see it as good business practice to do so. 

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

The fact is that the period for which a manufacturer will give you a guaranteed, cost-free replacement for something is not the same as the predicted or expected life span.

As far as I know, none of the manufacturers replaces the batteries under the warranty, they typically replace only the bad cells, and only enough to provide the minimum guaranteed charge. 

 

It's not like you are at the end of the warranty period, and get a new battery because it has degraded. 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Yellowtail
clarity

[GroveHillWanderer]

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

As far as I know, none of the manufacturers replaces the batteries under the warranty, they typically replace only the bad cells, and only enough to provide the minimum guaranteed charge. 

Well yes, they only replace the bits that need replacing. If you had a warranty covering the windows on your vehicle and one of the windows got broken, they wouldn't replace all the windows in the vehicle, only the one that needed it.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I thought it was someone's car running out of battery so they go to this place drive in drive out with a charged up battery.

Now that would be a brilliant plan but would require standardisation between all EV manufacturers and battery manufacturers as to the standard size battery in different sizes. It would would require battery replacers to keep a stock and they could standardise prices also.

 

What would be needed is at least 3 people qualified to inspect each battery and decide if it is worth repairing or scrapping (depending on if it is a cheap or expensive battery as original.

 

Who would own the battery stock at the shop and how many batteries of each type and cost to hold would be a problem, though not a big one.

 

It would certainly extend the vehicle life, though I am not sure where software and hardware upgrades would be done if required.

[transam]

15 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

You could just as easily ask why ICE vehicle manufacturers don't offer a longer warranty.

 

As the article I mentioned points out, they only give (on average) a vehicle drivetrain warranty of 5 years or 60,000 miles.

 

Why don't they give a warranty that would last as long as most drivetrains do?

 

I actually don't know the answer for sure, but I suspect that manufacturers of both EV's and ICE vehicles do not offer a warranty that covers the normal expected total lifetime of their products because they don't see it as good business practice to do so. 

The 8 year battery warranty is a smoke screen, it's the "or" 100,000 mile  that's the battery warranty....

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, transam said:

The 8 year battery warranty is a smoke screen, it's the "or" 100,000 mile  that's the battery warranty....

Why do you continue to post information you know is false:

"8 -year or 180,000 - kilometer battery warranty . 4-year or 120,000- kilometer car warranty"

 https://www.mgcars.com/en/NewsActivities/Detail/New-MG-ZS-EV-Launch-2022

 

GWM's Ora Good Cat is the same as MG's warranty.   Unless you are referring to a different brand or model, then please specify.

Edited June 27, 2022 by KhunLA

[transam]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Why do you continue to post information you know is false:

"8 -year or 180,000 - kilometer battery warranty . 4-year or 120,000- kilometer car warranty"

 https://www.mgcars.com/en/NewsActivities/Detail/New-MG-ZS-EV-Launch-2022

100,000 miles is 160,000km, now did I mention MG, well did I...?

Please take more time to read posts, thank you....????

[transam]

An interesting vid...????

 

 

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

100,000 miles is 160,000km, now did I mention MG, well did I...?

Please take more time to read posts, thank you....????

AND ... when did 160k = 180k.  What car were you referring to ?

160k is very generous, let along 180k / 22.5k a year.

 

Please tell us which one has that 8 yr / 160k warranty.  I don't know about you, but I can't see me putting 180k kms on a car in 8 yrs in Thailand.  I've yet to do that, 22.5k kms consistently and I've racked up the kms on my cars.  More than most I suspect.

 

I was putting on 70ish kms a day on the odometer with my school runs, 17+ kms x 2 x 2, before finding good van service and still couldn't rack up 22k kms a year.

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

An interesting vid...????

 

 

"On average, EV batteries only degrade at a rate of 2.3% of maximum capacity per year, so with proper care you can reliably expect your EV battery to last as long or longer than ICE drivetrain components."

https://www.evconnect.com/blog/how-long-does-an-electric-car-battery-last#:~:text=On average%2C EV batteries only,longer than ICE drivetrain components.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

AND ... when did 160k = 180k.  What car were you referring to ?

160k is very generous, let along 180k / 22.5k a year.

 

Please tell us which one has that 8 yr / 160k warranty.  I don't know about you, but I can't see me putting 180k kms on a car in 8 yrs in Thailand.  I've yet to do that, 22.5k kms consistently and I've racked up the kms on my cars.  More than most I suspect.

 

I was putting on 70ish kms a day on the odometer with my school runs, 17+ kms x 2 x 2, before finding good van service and still couldn't rack up 22k kms a year.

Here's one, you can probably find more if you Google....

 

https://en.nissan.co.th/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf.html

 

Anything else I can help you with today....?  ????

[KhunLA]

So this is the 'REAL EV' thread ... hmm

 

Still waiting for you / OP, to post real information, instead of all your slanted, repeated bias.

[transam]

Just now, KhunLA said:

So this is the 'REAL EV' thread ... hmm

 

Still waiting for you / OP, to post real information, instead of all your slanted, repeated bias.

It really reads like you have a problem with reading the pros and cons of battery cars, it seems you fear something, I don't understand that, perhaps you should bail and let the rest talk the pros and cons of motoring stuff...????

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Here's one, you can probably find more if you Google....

 

https://en.nissan.co.th/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf.html

 

Anything else I can help you with today....?  ????

OK, I'll give that one, though took you awhile ????

 

I hope people are smart enough to do their research, as what idiot would buy that for 2 mill baht when the MG EP is 771k.  You could buy 2 MG EPs & 1 Celerio for 2 mill, AND. have change ... maybe pick up a few e-motorcycles to compliment the garage.

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

It really reads like you have a problem with reading the pros and cons of battery cars, it seems you fear something, I don't understand that, perhaps you should bail and let the rest talk the pros and cons of motoring stuff...????

Already stated my pros & cons.  All pros for us.  Others' situation may be different, and should consider how & where they spend their baht.

 

As long as you can charge at home, solar even better, but just not seeing a down side to owning an EV. Unless you need a P/U, then you're screwed.

[KhunLA]

People definitely need to do a bit of comparison shopping.

EP (771k baht), 25% larger batter, less than 1/2 price vs Leaf:

 https://www.zigwheels.co.th/en/compare-cars/mg-ep-vs-nissan-leaf

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

OK, I'll give that one, though took you awhile ????

 

I hope people are smart enough to do their research, as what idiot would buy that for 2 mill baht when the MG EP is 771k.  You could buy 2 MG EPs & 1 Celerio for 2 mill, AND. have change ... maybe pick up a few e-motorcycles to compliment the garage.

On Nissan site leaf is advertised at 

SPECIAL PRICE 1,499,000 BAHT WITH SPECIAL INTEREST 0% FOR 72 MONTHS1ST JUN - 30TH JUN 2022

https://en.nissan.co.th/offers.html#category=Personal+Finance&model=B12P

 

Or 1,085,000 baht here

Guaranteed brand new car quality At an excellent price
. full
Price 1,990,000- Save 900,000.- The best
value selling price 1,085,000-

https://www.one2car.com/en/for-sale/nissan-leaf-bangkok-metropolitan-kanchanaphisek/9406065?auc=true

[transam]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

OK, I'll give that one, though took you awhile ????

 

I hope people are smart enough to do their research, as what idiot would buy that for 2 mill baht when the MG EP is 771k.  You could buy 2 MG EPs & 1 Celerio for 2 mill, AND. have change ... maybe pick up a few e-motorcycles to compliment the garage.

You are thinking of your backyard again, and to be honest, there may be many who don't want to entertain a Chinese ride...????

[transam]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Already stated my pros & cons.  All pros for us.  Others' situation may be different, and should consider how & where they spend their baht.

 

As long as you can charge at home, solar even better, but just not seeing a down side to owning an EV. Unless you need a P/U, then you're screwed.

Thank you for your input reflecting your use, now let us get on with the thread...????

[vinny41]

How Temperature Affects EV Range

 

What does heat do to my EV battery?

Temperature is known to have a big influence on the rate of Li battery degradation. One of the main reasons that it is so critical is because temperature affects the rate and efficiency of chemical reactions inside a battery. Higher temperatures, (or higher voltages -  but that’s another article), generally lead to faster reactions. This often means that the “unwanted” chemical reactions that make batteries degrade happen faster at higher temps. 

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-temperature-affects-ev-range

[KhunLA]

44 minutes ago, transam said:

You are thinking of your backyard again, and to be honest, there may be many who don't want to entertain a Chinese ride...????

Bigotry & Ignorance is Bliss & Expensive ... visual alternative

 

Nissan Leaf @ ฿1.5 mill, a fine Jap vehicle, w/OK specs.

 

OR ... for that same ฿1.5 mill baht, you can have all of these in you driveway.

 

AND ... over ฿100k in the pocket ... choice is yours ????

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

On Nissan site leaf is advertised at 

SPECIAL PRICE 1,499,000 BAHT WITH SPECIAL INTEREST 0% FOR 72 MONTHS1ST JUN - 30TH JUN 2022

https://en.nissan.co.th/offers.html#category=Personal+Finance&model=B12P

 

Or 1,085,000 baht here

Guaranteed brand new car quality At an excellent price
. full
Price 1,990,000- Save 900,000.- The best
value selling price 1,085,000-

https://www.one2car.com/en/for-sale/nissan-leaf-bangkok-metropolitan-kanchanaphisek/9406065?auc=true

Prefer new, not used, and best apple & apple, equal comparison.