We are finding it hard to retain staff. Many resign and dont give notice.

[jack71]

We have a small business and employ up to 5 workers. They work hard but we pay the well above the norm compared to our competitors. We pay double time if they work on public holidays. They are registered on SS system. We follow labor laws. We give them 500 lunch money per month and overtime from 430pm onwards. Im always buying fruit and cakes for them to eat during the day etc. 

 

Despite all this we are finding it tough to keep our workers staying long term. We just had a member of staff say to us a few weeks ago that she wanted to take a week off and see her family. Shes only been with us for 4 months and she agreed no pay this week. So she is off this week and we get a message saying sorry but she will not be coming back. We didnt reply to this line message. Totally unreliable and annoying for us. I dont want to pay her because she hasn't given us any notice. I feel I want to teach her a lesson. What would you do? It will be annoying if she turns up and makes drama demanding her salary. 

 

This <deleted> has been happening for several years. Staff quit anytime they want. We learnt not to pay annual bonuses on the 29th dec right before they go away for holidays. The reason is we always have staff that dont come back on the 5th Jan. Now we pay monthly bonuses on the 15th of each month on the proviso that they turn up on time and no casual days off (ie dont turn up for some random reason)

 

We are obviously not employing graduates from Mahidol uni and I understand the mindset of the average thai that has no education. But one would assume most people would be professional enough to respect the boss enough to just give 2 weeks to a month notice. I feel living in this third world mentality here in Thailand is wearing me down. We have a successful business but its completely dependent upon our staff turning up. 

 

 

[proton]

Sounds completely normal behaviour for Thailand, don't blame yourself. How about taking on Burmese instead?

[Banana7]

What type of business ? What are the work hours? What is the vacation policy? Ask the employees why they left and ask the existing employees why the others left. There could be inter-personal issues between the employees.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Banana7

[Jingthing]

I think you need to pay for time worked regardless. 

I've heard similar stories from business owners here quite often. 

 

[mommysboy]

Scant details about the nature of the job and working conditions makes it difficult to form an opinion.  I would say people are generally reluctant to quit well paid jobs unless there is something that really pushes them over the edge. 

[nightfox]

Like anything in life, you get what you pay for. Give them a reason to stay by paying them a bit more then the average minimum wage and you will see your revolving door be less revolving. 

[CharlieH]

Nature of the beast at the lower end of the labor market. In my view, they simply get bored after a few months, especially if working away from home etc. Better to get local people, thats why so many get jobs for friends and family connections etc not "outsiders" they can be driven out.

 

 

 

 

[Scott]

I think that in the past, employers have had a habit of stiffing employees out of wages for time worked.  Pretty much any excuse to not pay was good enough.  This has encouraged a culture of collect your pay and leave.  

 

It makes it very difficult for those employers who do value their employees and treat them fairly.  It's probably best to make sure you pay any agreed to outstanding wages.  Keep your reputation in tact even if they don't.  

[Iamfalang]

58 minutes ago, jack71 said:

They work hard

No matter what the job, this isn't sustainable here.  lol.  I've  never seen it.   Work long hours, sure.  Every day, sure.  work hard?  ah, no.   If so, everyone gets burned out unless it's really a fantastic salary and great place to work.

 

never underestimate workers.  Especially don't IGNORE them.  That will ruin a business.

 

If you are making 100,000,000 a month and tell them they should be happy at 500 baht a day, well, maybe not.  Hi guys, look at my new car!!!   Wait, you want your 100 baht bonus or not???

 

need more information......

 

[Bday Prang]

You will just have to accept that people don't like working for you, it appears that they are prepared to give it a go and after a short while something pisses them off and they decide to leave. 

 Thais haven't for the most part allowed themselves to fall into the trap of becoming wage slaves, and all credit to them for that. Consequently if they don't enjoy their job then they quit "any time they want" as you put it.

You say that  you "understand the mind set of the average uneducated Thai" ( no really you don't) and then immediately prove that you don't by saying that you assume they would act professionally and give 2 weeks notice ! followed by remarks about a third world country!  That coupled with your desire to  " teach somebody a lesson" by not paying them, kind of gives me the impression that i would not last long with you either.  Id  Be careful if I were you . it might become a bit more than annoying if she turns up asking for her wages and brings her brothers with her 

[dia1]

500 baht lunch money for a month? You haven't given us any information about the type of work and the pay, but judging by your lunch allocation, it probably isn't a high paying or enjoyable job.

 

If you want to keep employees, don't look at what your competitors are paying. They could just as well have high turnover as well.Look at the cost of living in the area of the business. Does the amount you pay give the employee enough to pay for nice housing, transportation, food, bills, clothes etc? If not, or if a person will struggle to live on the salary you're providing you will have high turnover.

 

Every employee is a human with ambitions and goals, and if they only make a a few hundred baht per day but pay 100 baht in transportation back and forth, for example, they will start wondering if the work is worth it. They'll start questioning whether they should look for another job or their next path. And if the job is low on the pay scale, they aren't afraid of losing the job, because there are tons of low paying jobs available.

 

Pay them enough that they can afford to live very comfortably on their own and still have money for savings, and you will not have an employee turnover problem. If you're paying like 15,000 or less for any job though, I think the default is high turnover. Unless they live right next door and can just sit around all day playing their phone.

[KIngsofisaan]

500 baht a month for lunch is peanuts.

 

They cannot even buy anything for that price.

 

Work environment is NOT condusive to their happiness. That is on you.

 

Uneducated Thai's would not understand protocol to give 2 week notice as Thailand is not the west.

 

If you are continually working your workers overtime, you have not budgeted your work force correctly

 

 

[bluebluewater]

500 Baht a month for lunch . . . . . ?

5 days of work a week = 20 days =  25 baht a day for lunch = peanuts

6 days of work a week = 24 days =  21  baht a day for lunch = "you not nice"

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, jack71 said:

We are obviously not employing graduates from Mahidol uni and I understand the mindset of the average thai that has no education. But one would assume most people would be professional enough to respect the boss enough to just give 2 weeks to a month notice.

So you think you understand the mindset of the average Thai that has no education? Really? Please explain it to us all. I am sure if you could write a book about it many people will buy it. Because I don't think I know anybody who understands that mindset.

 

And about the 2 weeks to a month notice: What a wonderful idea. I can tell you why many of them don't give you that notice. Because they don't know themselves what they will do in a week from now, or in two or four weeks. Maybe they would give you notice if they would know. They don't!

 

Good luck for you. You will need that luck. Because I am sure you or anybody else won't be able to solve it with science and thinking.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, Banana7 said:

What type of business ? What are the work hours? What is the vacation policy? Ask the employees why they left and ask the existing employees why the others left. There could be inter-personal issues between the employees.

Somehow I get the impression you want to analyze this situation with logic. That's a hilarious idea.

[Hummin]

27 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Somehow I get the impression you want to analyze this situation with logic. That's a hilarious idea.

Good businesses in Thailand have a solid family who you trust and do what they are told. 

 

I have mentioned it before, the foreigners who I have seen succeed in Thailand who do not only hire from family, treat their employees like family when they first find someone who they trust and believe in.

 

Especially thorough COVID, you could see who really cared for their employees and who did not. A friend of me who before COVID had a good relationship with his staff, moved all of them in to his house, and when it eased up now, he had experienced staff and no delays and no loss when starting up to normal again. 

[ChaiyaTH]

It happens from low paid jobs to decent office jobs with 30-50K baht salaries all the time, Thais are to blame in this and no excuses are possible. Not to say it is that much better with nearby countries though. 

Earn the money abroad, spend it here is the rule. Or accept reality; no need to pay them better, just offer them social rewards like a dinner party at the end of the month, or KTV. Keep them poor, else you are sponsoring them to save money up and leave too. This is thailand right.

[ChaiyaTH]

1 hour ago, bluebluewater said:

500 Baht a month for lunch . . . . . ?

5 days of work a week = 20 days =  25 baht a day for lunch = peanuts

6 days of work a week = 24 days =  21  baht a day for lunch = "you not nice"

There is no need to pay them lunch money in the first place, but yeah, stupid to then package it as such for 500B too, just add it to the wage or leave it out entirely.

 

You have to be a hardcore boss here, pay them poorly but at the same time reward them with penny stuff like a free dinner, KTV one night. Being nice is a weakness as a boss, you ben nice socially, not business wise.

Edited July 28, 2022 by ChaiyaTH

[ChaiyaTH]

2 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

If you are continually working your workers overtime, you have not budgeted your work force correctly

Oh please, have you even tried hiring 5 people right now, they are not to be found. Let alone for the over time of a few hours on 4 staff, yeah let's hire 4 fulltimers for that and go bankrupt.

 

Theoretical genius = failure retiree no 1,030,340 in practice.

Edited July 28, 2022 by ChaiyaTH

[OneMoreFarang]

24 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Good businesses in Thailand have a solid family who you trust and do what they are told. 

 

I have mentioned it before, the foreigners who I have seen succeed in Thailand who do not only hire from family, treat their employees like family when they first find someone who they trust and believe in.

 

Especially thorough COVID, you could see who really cared for their employees and who did not. A friend of me who before COVID had a good relationship with his staff, moved all of them in to his house, and when it eased up now, he had experienced staff and no delays and no loss when starting up to normal again. 

Wow, your friend must have a very good heart.

I am sure treating employees like family helps to keep them. But there are also downsides.

I know a women who own several bars. She hired many people from her "village" since maybe 20 years. And she is successful. But I also see that now a substantial part of the people who work for her, in her bars, since maybe 20 years, are just too old for that job. But she keep these people "working". Or more correct I should say she continues to pay them and she deliberately overlooks the fact that they basically don't work. I guess in part it is her good heart that she keeps these older people employed and paid. But in part it will also be the fact that if she would fire, even in a very nice way, the old and useless people from her business, that would be a problem. Because some of the young people who work for her are the children of those old people. So if she would fire the mothers that would influence the daughters to leave.

My point is that at some point then this is a family or a community but not much of a business anymore.

For someone who wants a business and not adopt a family this concept won't work.

[KIngsofisaan]

2 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Oh please, have you even tried hiring 5 people right now, they are not to be found. Let alone for the over time of a few hours on 4 staff, yeah let's hire 4 fulltimers for that and go bankrupt.

 

Theoretical genius = failure retiree no 1,030,340 in practice.

I know 100's in Isaan that would love to have a job out of the fields

 

If you are going bankrupt because of a few extra Thai workers, at their pathetically small salary, your business is not very sound or else you are just barely making it.

 

Let's see 6 Thai workers at 10,000 baht a month. That is 60,000 baht a month (around US $2000 a month). If you cannot afford that, what are you doing in business?

 

 

[gk10012001]

Just as a point of reference.  Here in the USA, I work in the defense industry.  Over 40 years I have been in the active Air Force, then worked for most of the big companies such as Boeing, Lockheed, Northrop, General Dynamics, not to mention several small firms.  The last few years every large company has stopped offering pension plans.  Sure they give you some more vacation days, and slightly increase their matching 401 k contributions, but no pension.  So many employees get tired and just don't see the reason to stay on.  The turnover rates these days are huge.  turnover always existed, but not like today's numbers.  with no pension carrot on a stick to strive for, staying long term is so much less attractive.

 

  Now for Thailand, looking ahead to the future sadly seems to be not a big thing in the Thai mentality, so I am not sure that even having some sort of longevity bonus or "pension" would even work, but you never know.  A few lunches and treats here and there are NOT going to pique their interest to stay.  Mai Sanook or not fun pops up in the Thai mentality pretty quick.

[2baht]

8 hours ago, jack71 said:

(ie dont turn up for some random reason)

Ahhhhh..............they get tired very easily! ????

[papa al]

8 hours ago, jack71 said:

t will be annoying if she turns up and makes drama demanding her salary. 

how dare she want her salary !

[bluemoon58]

7 hours ago, nightfox said:

Like anything in life, you get what you pay for. Give them a reason to stay by paying them a bit more then the average minimum wage and you will see your revolving door be less revolving. 

He actually said he pays well above the norm already.

 

[steven100]

The workers could be shoveling sh_t for all we know ....   i'd probably leave after one week if that the case ,  get my meaning ?

You mention ,  it will be annoying if she turns up demanding her salary ... Lol    you are not in the west now OP ....  TIT ,  they act different , and they expect to be paid ...  god help you if you don't pay her because I knew someone who did similar and he wasn't seen again.

[malt25]

8 hours ago, nightfox said:

Like anything in life, you get what you pay for. Give them a reason to stay by paying them a bit more then the average minimum wage and you will see your revolving door be less revolving. 

"we pay the well above the norm compared to our competitors. We pay double time if they work on public holidays. "

[OneMoreFarang]

Let me tell you the story of a female friend of my gf. The friend is now maybe 45 years old and she has four kids in the range from about 6 to 21. 

She used to sell food at the local school or market. Now it seems she doesn't find or doesn't like any jobs near her home, about 5 hours away from Bangkok. And some time ago she decided she will come to Bangkok to work here and make money.

Because of her age and being overweight and not fit the numbers of people who want to employ her are low. But she somehow always finds a job. So maybe she works for 4 weeks in a job in Bangkok. And then she misses her kids, which is understandable. And then she decides to visit her kids for a weekend.

After a day home she somehow realizes that a weekend is not really long enough, so she stays a little longer with the kids. And then, maybe a week later, she returns to "her" job. Except it is not her job anymore. Because she didn't show up after the weekend the boss hired someone else. After all, the work has to be done. She is disappointed, why did that boss do that? It was just a couple of days, and she missed her children. 

It seems she doesn't even try to look at it from the perspective of the employer.

So she is looking for work again, another company with another job. And, what a surprise, after a few weeks she misses her kids again. So she goes home again over the weekend. And there someone else tells her about that other job, where she would get 1000B more per months. Oh, that sounds good, lets go there. Should she inform her previous employer who thought she will come back after the weekend? Not really. He will see that she doesn't show up...

This is happening, and with repetitive behavior again and again. Last time she didn't yet miss the children but a relative died and she had to go to the funeral - after she started work maybe 10 days ago. That funeral was obviously important...

Let's look what will happen next. But it doesn't really matter because it will likely be similar to what happened in the past. My gf talked about this with me, and I suggested she should look for work in or near her village. Because otherwise the story will repeat again and again. But no, thinking about what would make sense is just too much headache.

Somehow she seems to me a typical case of how many uneducated Thais "think".

 

[papa al]

25 minutes ago, malt25 said:

"we pay the well above the norm compared to our competitors. We pay double time if they work on public holidays. "

Maybe you were a bad person in a previous life

and are paying for it now.

Maybe you should hire Khmer, Laos, or Rhyinga.?

You want some cheese with the whine.?

[PJ71]

Farang are so lovely, doubt you'd see many Thai employers care as much as you.

 

If it's ann unskilled job pay them daily, cash in hand no SS.

 

If they leave, get another, no harm done.