What's the deal with bitcoin now?

[peterfranks]

Add another one to the list

 

https://www.reuters.com/technology/singapore-based-crypto-lender-hodlnaut-suspends-withdrawals-2022-08-08/

 

Singapore-based crypto lender Hodlnaut suspends withdrawals

[CashMoon]

We can talk about these issues after Elon Musk moved on Mars. It's too early yet.  He created Bitcoin because the 100% global payment system he had dreamed of with Paypal failed to reach his goal. After this industry, he became the richest person in the world. 

[Iamfalang]

30,000 seemed impossible this month, but there seemed to be a little hope.  no longer.

 

This is the start to 15,000 and maybe 9,000

 

30,000 ever again?  SURE......But it's going much, much lower first.

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

36 minutes ago, Iamfalang said:

30,000 ever again?  SURE......

 

 

Nothing sure about that.

[scubascuba3]

Lowest I've seen for a while

[ukrules]

There's a dip, fund the accounts and get ready to buy.

[Celsius]

Why? It's going lower.

[PPGuy]

5 hours ago, Celsius said:

Why? It's going lower.

Pump and dump?

[whiteman]

Ill wait till it hits 5k or lower b4 I even think of the gamble on this stuff

[Mac Mickmanus]

26 minutes ago, whiteman said:

Ill wait till it hits 5k or lower b4 I even think of the gamble on this stuff

They will cost 1 million $ in a few years time, so it doesn't really matter how much you pay for them now 

[Heng]

Maybe.   Or Bitcoin may go the way of Bitcoin cash.   It works fine, but it isn't worth much. 

[MarcelV]

Bitcoin and other cryptos are all basically worth zilch. It is money created out of nothing and has nothing valuable to back it up.

[Thailaw]

On 11/24/2022 at 9:52 AM, MarcelV said:

Bitcoin and other cryptos are all basically worth zilch. It is money created out of nothing and has nothing valuable to back it up.

And what of value does the US Dollar have "to back it up? Nixon took the Dollar off the "gold standard" in 1971, and since then it has been "backed" by nothing. US Dollars are "created" by the Federal Reserve when it buys debt (and by banks when they make loans) with new Dollars that it creates.  What gives it "value" is that other people will accept it in exchange for goods and sevices -- nothing more (it is a "fiat" currency). When people lose fait in the US Dollar its value will also decrease (maybe vanish). That process may have already started.  The creation of US Dollars by the Federal Reserve over the past decade has been reckless, which is why people have been looking for alternatives to hold wealth -- hence the creation of crypto-currencies, such as Bitcoin. Their appeal is that their quantity and increases in quantity are extremely limited, unlike the Dollar whose quantity is subject to political pressure and government manipulation.  And the price/value of Bitcoin had been increasing exponentially for a ten year period (2009/10 through 2021), but has since dropped to less than third of its all-time high -- its exceptional volatility in value suggests that it is not a good "store of value", a fundamental requirement for "money".  Where are Bitcoin and the other crypto-currencies headed? I have no idea, but I wouldn't expect them to disappear any time soon. And as long as there is a significant group of prople (I won't call them "investors", rather gamblers) that are willing to pay $10,000+ for a single Bitcoin, they certainly aren't |worth zlich".  Can I respectfully suggest a course in money and banking before you post again on this subject. 

[KannikaP]

On 11/18/2022 at 9:44 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

They will cost 1 million $ in a few years time, so it doesn't really matter how much you pay for them now 

How many bitcoin do you reckon will cost $1 M in these few years?

[Heng]

It'll go to zero but that's pretty much true of anything man made, so I'll hang on to these last few just in case.   It's the sweet spot between something and nothing that we're all working with.   5 days to ski season.

[Neeranam]

On 11/24/2022 at 9:52 AM, MarcelV said:

Bitcoin and other cryptos are all basically worth zilch. It is money created out of nothing and has nothing valuable to back it up.

Lol, maybe I'll go to your threads about teaching in Thailand and tell you not to do it, as the pay is so bad. 

Maybe I'll wander over to the pattaya forum and tell them hua hin is better. 

Perhaps I'll go to the golfing forum and tell them it is a stupid sport. 

See where in going? 

Anyways, what nonsense, crypto has value, obviously. 

[patman30]

On 11/24/2022 at 9:52 AM, MarcelV said:

Bitcoin and other cryptos are all basically worth zilch. It is money created out of nothing and has nothing valuable to back it up.

you clearly do not understand how the Fed and banking system now operates
ZERO reserve banking since March 2020
Source: the fed
even prior, the fractional reserve banking only required 1-3% on balance sheets
now research "credit creation"
literally money created out of nothing.

Also
"created out of nothing" displays ignorance and lack of understanding
if they are created out of nothing,
how about i give you 10 nothings and you give me 10 bitcoins
there is a process and definitely a cost to acquire newly mined bitcoin
asics and the power to run them are not cheap

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, patman30 said:

you clearly do not understand how the Fed and banking system now operates
ZERO reserve banking since March 2020
Source: the fed
even prior, the fractional reserve banking only required 1-3% on balance sheets
now research "credit creation"
literally money created out of nothing.

Also
"created out of nothing" displays ignorance and lack of understanding
if they are created out of nothing,
how about i give you 10 nothings and you give me 10 bitcoins
there is a process and definitely a cost to acquire newly mined bitcoin
asics and the power to run them are not cheap

And if your bitcoin exchange goes bust, you can kiss your bitcoins goodbye.

If a bank in the US goes bust, your money is protected by the FDIC up to I think $500,000 for each account.

And the USA's fiat money is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States.  Fiat money is backed by ???

[patman30]

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

And if your bitcoin exchange goes bust, you can kiss your bitcoins goodbye.

If a bank in the US goes bust, your money is protected by the FDIC up to I think $500,000 for each account.

And the USA's fiat money is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States.  Fiat money is backed by ???

What exchange are you talking about?

Why do i need an exchange to USE bitcoin?
i am not American, but all i need to say is Northern Rock
Fiat money is now not backed by anything
you missed this part
"The FDIC also has a US$100 billion line of credit with the United States Department of the Treasury."

[placeholder]

46 minutes ago, patman30 said:

What exchange are you talking about?

Why do i need an exchange to USE bitcoin?
i am not American, but all i need to say is Northern Rock
Fiat money is now not backed by anything
you missed this part
"The FDIC also has a US$100 billion line of credit with the United States Department of the Treasury."

But you do need an exchange or something similar to store bitcoin. And what protects the money of depositors who use those services when they go bankrupt?

And what's your point about the line of credit? Banks in the US actually have gone bankrupt and depositors were protected.

[patman30]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

you do need an exchange or something similar to store bitcoin.

Incorrect
 

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

what protects the money of depositors who use those services when they go bankrupt

What services are you talking about?
see above

 

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

what's your point about the line of credit

Every time the treasury prints money, your fiat stack is devalued.

Please do answer my question that you missed,
Why do i need an exchange to USE bitcoin?

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, patman30 said:

Incorrect
 

What services are you talking about?
see above

 

Every time the treasury prints money, your fiat stack is devalued.

Please do answer my question that you missed,
Why do i need an exchange to USE bitcoin?

To spend your bitcoins you don't need an exchange. But to store them? This is like asking why do I need a bank to spend my money? You don't. And you can keep all your cash at home, too.

You clearly don't understand money if you liken it to a stock.

[patman30]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

To spend your bitcoins you don't need an exchange. But to store them? This is like asking why do I need a bank to spend my money? You don't. And you can keep all your cash at home, too.

You clearly don't understand money if you liken it to a stock.

not trying to offend but you are out of your depth in this bitcoin convo tbh
i understand your skepticism and it is wise for you to avoid,
as you do not understand the basics of bitcoin
(which is common for most people anyway but most just want to gamble)
you do not need exchanges.
it is as simple as that, not to store, not to spend
the only thing exchanges are for is risky speculative trading
 

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, patman30 said:

not trying to offend but you are out of your depth in this bitcoin convo tbh
i understand your skepticism and it is wise for you to avoid,
as you do not understand the basics of bitcoin
(which is common for most people anyway but most just want to gamble)
you do not need exchanges.
it is as simple as that, not to store, not to spend
the only thing exchanges are for is risky speculative trading
 

So where do you store your bitcoin if not in an exchange or wallet? How are your bitcoins protected against default?

[patman30]

Just now, placeholder said:

So where do you store your bitcoin if not in an exchange or wallet? How are your bitcoins protected against default?

i store most of mine on spreadsheets
every exchange under the sun can go bust
my bitcoins are safe.

others i do have in hot wallets ready to be used

When you say wallet, are you referring to a custodial service?
or a wallet, or a private key (which can be referred to as a wallet)
i have to ask as you have now changed from an exchange to "exchange or wallet"
if i use a wallet i dont need an exchange either.

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, patman30 said:

i store most of mine on spreadsheets
every exchange under the sun can go bust
my bitcoins are safe.

others i do have in hot wallets ready to be used

When you say wallet, are you referring to a custodial service?
or a wallet, or a private key (which can be referred to as a wallet)
i have to ask as you have now changed from an exchange to "exchange or wallet"
if i use a wallet i dont need an exchange either.

I think my analogy of keeping money in a bank vs keeping them at home applies to the difference between hot wallets (custodial service) and cold wallets. Except, as we know, banks are a much safer way to store money than are hot wallets in storing crypto.

[JayClay]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

I think my analogy of keeping money in a bank vs keeping them at home applies to the difference between hot wallets (custodial service) and cold wallets. Except, as we know, banks are a much safer way to store money than are hot wallets in storing crypto.

The difference is you can't keep backups of cash that you have in your home.

[Sametboy2019]

On 12/1/2022 at 9:18 PM, placeholder said:

And if your bitcoin exchange goes bust, you can kiss your bitcoins goodbye.

If a bank in the US goes bust, your money is protected by the FDIC up to I think $500,000 for each account.

And the USA's fiat money is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States.  Fiat money is backed by ???

Anybody who keeps their crypto on an exchange almost deserves to  lose it

[CashMoon]

Cryptocurrency is a life saver, not an investor tool. After the worldwide banking crisis, you will understand the value of blockchain very well. Imagine being unable to touch millions of dollars from your bank in a possible bank crisis. Cryptocurrencies will explode one day, but banks first. 

[placeholder]

On 12/5/2022 at 10:38 AM, CashMoon said:

Cryptocurrency is a life saver, not an investor tool. After the worldwide banking crisis, you will understand the value of blockchain very well. Imagine being unable to touch millions of dollars from your bank in a possible bank crisis. Cryptocurrencies will explode one day, but banks first. 

We've been hearing that about the banks almost as long as we've been hearing that Jesus is coming any day now.