It's hard to imagine this flying with independent voters. It kind of makes "defund the police" sound lame by comparison.

 

“They’re going to drastically use this to rally their allies, GOP leaders on Capitol Hill and juice for his political agenda and run for 2024,” said a person close to the Trump operation. “If there was a 99 percent chance it’s 100 percent now. He makes it part of his platform – going after the FBI.”

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/trump-world-republicans-fbi-2024-run-00050485

 

11 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Their pathological hatred of Trump precludes such logical thought. It may well indeed go against them at the polls. 

 

They'll just keep insulting those who disagree with them. Same thing happened with the Brexit vote, the Remainers simply called anyone who argued with them Racist, Stupid, Ignorant etc. and therefore put the nail into the coffin of their campaign and eventually lost.

 

One day they might realize that insulting people is not the most effective way to cajole them around to their way of thinking. Although I believe many are too far gone to reconsider their approach.

"One day they might realize that insulting people is not the most effective way to cajole them around to their way of thinking. Although I believe many are too far gone to reconsider their approach."

 

Yeah, Trump and his supporters show zero respect for others.  Trump goes so far as to insult the appearance of the wives of political opponents, and the talking heads on television....

 

Oh wait, you were writing about how Trump opponents are insulting others.  Wow, better look in a mirror before throwing out that accusation.

9 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Gotta say I am puzzled by this too. The economy was cooking along, unemployment down (especially for minorities), low inflation, peace deals in the Middle East, criminal justice reform, booming energy sector.... I get that you didn't like the Bad Orange Man's personality or behavior.  I am with you on that. But they were 4 pretty good years for America as a whole.

4 pretty good years?

 

Anti-science approach to Covid, weakening NATO alliance, weakening Asia Pacific alliances, buddying up to autocrats, trusting Putin over his own intelligence agencies, only legislative accomplishment was a deficit exploding tax cut...

 

Oh yeah, and sitting on his butt watching television while a mob of his supporters were attacking Congress in an attempt to prevent certification of the Presidential election.

6 hours ago, michael87 said:

Who can trust a liar, especially the FBI. They cannot be trusted, only a gullible moron would trust the current two tiered justice system in America. These corrupt institutions are the culprits chipping away to the detriment of democracy with people calling out America as a banana republic now. This political stunt will be exposed and Trump will beat any and all challengers in Nov 2024. You can smell the fear emanating from the left.

"Who can trust a liar..."

 

Nobody.  And nobody lies like Trump.

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The following morning, the billionaire Trump sent out emails asking for money.

“I need every single red-blooded American Patriot to step up during this time,” read the email. “Please rush in a donation IMMEDIATELY to publicly stand with me against this NEVERENDING WITCH HUNT.”

 

https://nordot.app/929783457074577408?c=592622757532812385

Is anyone surprised by this?

3 hours ago, DBath said:

I don't want Trump to run again, but I'm sick and tired of all the namby pamby liberals on here who think Biden is doing a good job - nothing could be farther from the truth. Dementia Boy is destroying America.

Strengthening alliances with democracies, confronting Russia's aggression, an infrastructure bill that could never get passed under Trump, record low unemployment...

 

All that in less than two years.

 

Yeah, it's been terrible.

I wonder if Trump has twigged that somebody close to him is grassing him up?

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I wonder if Trump has twigged that somebody close to him is grassing him up?

Who would that be ?

Or is it an unnamed person telling un named people about unknown evidence of un named wrong doing ?

I doubt anybody had to inform on him.  I think the National Archives knew he had them and where they were.  There was no one else who could do that.  The Archivists saw to it that there was a secure room for secret or sensitive documents but that doesn't give Trump the right to keep those docs.  And now they want them back and they have come to get them.

Trump could release the full text/contents of the search warrant, AFAIK.

 

This could go a long way towards supporting his claims of political harrassment.

 

More so if it specifically mentions "Witches".

 

 

11 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Trump could release the full text/contents of the search warrant, AFAIK.

 

This could go a long way towards supporting his claims of political harrassment.

 

More so if it specifically mentions "Witches".

 

 

No need. That they haven't "perp walked" him for the cameras says it all. Had they uncovered evidence of high crimes they would have paraded him many hours ago. Most persecuted human being alive just had his base energized beyond belief, and any non partisan observers will no doubt feel sympathy for Trump.

10 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The FBI will need to find something here . 

They will need to justify their actions .

If they find nothing , heads will have to roll .

Unless something significant is found , everyone involved will need to go , even investigated and charged with any offences they committed . 

  They need to find a smoking gun to justify their actions 

Chances are high something will be found.

 

The classification and archive system is quite complex and sophisticated. When a classified doc is formed, it goes into a complex system. Every time that doc is accessed, the system records when it was accessed and on what computer. If a doc is printed, it is known when it was printed and on what printer. A printed doc then has a trail and must be reconciled, either where it is stored or when it made it into a burn bag. Also, there are no thumb drive ports in any computer than can access classified docs, so it's hard copy only.

 

The system is not foolproof, but counterintel or the archive would have a good idea what docs are unaccounted for. The more sensitive the docs (above TS classification into codeword or Bigot List), every copy is accounted for, those with access is minimal, so what is missing is obvious.

 

I can guess that it was this level of worry that allowed a judge to sign off on the warrant. The only sorts of things that would be so highly classified that this degree of concern would be warranted would be things like clandestine asset identities, covert actions, nuke codes, special weapons systems, etc. Obviously 45 would have neither reason nor right to retain such docs, and he would know that, so he cannot claim ignorance. It seems quite clear some highly classified docs were printed, the system knows when (e.g., early January 2021?), and the system cannot reconcile what happened to those printed docs. One might suspect an opportunist like jared as a possible culprit, as he regularly used his access first and foremost for personal gain, but the fact the warrant did not go after jared suggests the information the investigators had is highly specific.

2 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

No need. That they haven't "perp walked" him for the cameras says it all. Had they uncovered evidence of high crimes they would have paraded him many hours ago. Most persecuted human being alive just had his base energized beyond belief, and any non partisan observers will no doubt feel sympathy for Trump.

Is he a child who needs my sympathy? Why have you gone full 45Speak only using superlatives 'most persecuted human being alive'?

 

If you are American, does it not concern you that 45 not only encouraged the mob to storm the Capitol and overturn US democracy, but 45 did NOTHING for 187 minutes while watching on TV the mob screaming "Hang Mike Pence" as well as attacking law enforcement officers?

 

Read my post above that explains a bit about the sophistication of the classification system and archive. The system would have a good idea what docs are missing, and how serious their presence in an un-secure location would be.

 

By the way, there was a time when the term 'most persecuted human being alive' could have been claimed by Al Capone. There was persecution with good reason.

4 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Who would that be ?

Or is it an unnamed person telling un named people about unknown evidence of un named wrong doing ?

A search warrant will need a solid affidavit and this just for the garden variety search warrant. To get a sign off by a federal judge for an unprecedented search warrant of former President will need a water tight probably cause for conducting the search. The FBI knew and were briefed on what they are looking and where to look which will likely mean that someone or some staffs maybe the secret service agents have given some reliable information to the FBI. At the end of the day, a dozen boxes were taken out of Mar-a-lago. Even if not classified documents, there is criminality in taking official government documents from the WH. Whatever your affiliation, this not looking good for Trump. 

2 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

No need. That they haven't "perp walked" him for the cameras says it all. Had they uncovered evidence of high crimes they would have paraded him many hours ago. Most persecuted human being alive just had his base energized beyond belief, and any non partisan observers will no doubt feel sympathy for Trump.

Well, considering that Trump was in New Jersey when the search was conducted, perp-walking would have been a stretch. Literally a stretch.

"Most persecuted human being alive..." I think that there are about 1 million Uighurs in Chinese concentration camps who might disagree with you. And that's just for starters. Get a grip on yourself.

3 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

No need. That they haven't "perp walked" him for the cameras says it all. Had they uncovered evidence of high crimes they would have paraded him many hours ago. Most persecuted human being alive just had his base energized beyond belief, and any non partisan observers will no doubt feel sympathy for Trump.

You seem confused.

The search warrant (not raid) was signed by a federal judge after a prosecutor presented "probable cause." The "perp walk" may come if the prosecutor uncovers enough evidence to convict "beyond reasonable doubt."

 

For examples of a perp walk, check the video of Trumps associates:

M. Flynn, Rick Gates, Manaforte, Popadopulos, R. Stone, S. Bannon, P. Navarro, Tom Barrak, Elliott Brody, Michael Cohen, Alan Weiselberg, George Nadar.

 

 

3 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

No need. That they haven't "perp walked" him for the cameras says it all. Had they uncovered evidence of high crimes they would have paraded him many hours ago. Most persecuted human being alive just had his base energized beyond belief, and any non partisan observers will no doubt feel sympathy for Trump.

This isn't an episode of Sherlock Holmes and the FBI aren't wizards out of Harry Potter; things take time and this is only at the beginning.

 

As has been mentioned many times before, the documents will need to be logged and assessed. Archives will need to be involved and will report on what is there that he shouldn't have (which sounds like everything but I won't jump to concusions). In other words, the evidence needs to be accumulated and then the process of charging will follow. This is an ex-POTUS so I can imagine these guys will be somewhat thorough in all this, knowing that the likes of Kevin McCarthy have already threatened a full investigation IF they get Congress  

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3593582-mccarthy-threatens-to-probe-garland-after-trump-fbi-raid/

 

 

51 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, considering that Trump was in New Jersey when the search was conducted, perp-walking would have been a stretch. Literally a stretch.

"Most persecuted human being alive..." I think that there are about 1 million Uighurs in Chinese concentration camps who might disagree with you. And that's just for starters. Get a grip on yourself.

Have you noticed how Trump fans are particularly prone to histronics? 

 

'Most persecuted human being alive'. Give me a break.

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I wonder if he will be charged with a crime. Would be quite a precedent setting affair. I say lock him up. He does appear to have thought he was above the law. Besides, he looks good in orange. 

Most likely he will be eventually indicted for one or more charges by the DOJ and or Georgia. I doubt the DOJ will act before the midterms. I have learned though that if convicted he will probably just get home incarceration because of the  need for secret service protection. So no more golf and no more rallies. The poor dear.

13 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Have you noticed how Trump fans are particularly prone to histronics? 

 

'Most persecuted human being alive'. Give me a break.

They just regurgitating from the master of grift favourite phrases. Just how many times the grift master have said "witch hunt'. most persecuted President, worse than Salem witch trial" to rile up his base for more donations.  

6 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

They just regurgitating from the master of grift favourite phrases. Just how many times the grift master have said "witch hunt'. most persecuted President, worse than Salem witch trial" to rile up his base for more donations.  

It's a cult.

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

"One day they might realize that insulting people is not the most effective way to cajole them around to their way of thinking. Although I believe many are too far gone to reconsider their approach."

 

Yeah, Trump and his supporters show zero respect for others.  Trump goes so far as to insult the appearance of the wives of political opponents, and the talking heads on television....

 

Oh wait, you were writing about how Trump opponents are insulting others.  Wow, better look in a mirror before throwing out that accusation.

Once again, you are labelling me a Trump supporter and then arguing against this assumed (but incorrect) position.

 

I am not a fan of Trump or Biden. I find Trump to be crass, rude and somewhat eccentric. Biden is borderline disfunctional at this stage and probably suffering from dementia. They are both economical with the truth.

 

However, I am against using state agencies to harrass political rivals. I always thought the USA was above that, it's a very slippery slope.

CNN had an interesting point noting that Trump has the warrant used. The warrant provides some detail on why they did what they did and it is  interesting that Trump hasn't released it. Turned on Fox News for the first time in months just to see Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham have a hissy fit and they didn't disappoint. Or they did disappoint. Hannity compared Trump's treatment to the treatment of such luminaries as General Flynn and Paul Manafort. He was interviewing the latter though I had had enough by then. 

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Once again, you are labelling me a Trump supporter and then arguing against this assumed (but incorrect) position.

 

I am not a fan of Trump or Biden. I find Trump to be crass, rude and somewhat eccentric. Biden is borderline disfunctional at this stage and probably suffering from dementia. They are both economical with the truth.

 

However, I am against using state agencies to harrass political rivals. I always thought the USA was above that, it's a very slippery slope.

And you are assuming this is political.

 

Both Biden and the White House have already come out and said they knew nothing about the raid and had nothing to do with it's instigation. Could it actually just simply be law enforcement doing their job? Being the only POTUS ever to have been raided by law enforcement, the DOJ and FBI will no doubt have been super careful that this was the right thing to do so to say this is 'state agencies harassing political rivals' is a very long stretch indeed. The guy's a proven crook so don't look for alternative reasons other than him just being his usual crooked self.    

Is this why there was a raid ?

Why would anyone throw paper down toilet ?

Any sensitive papers would be shredded first or even burned ,

What if this is just someone using the wrong toilet paper, paper that wouldn't flush and a cleaner made a complaint about the toilets being clogged .

   Donald has previously mentioned that toilets need the be flushed 15 times for the waste to go 

 

 

"Maggie Haberman, a New York Times reporter, claimed White House staff would "periodically find the toilet clogged" and would then discover "wads of clumped up, wet printed paper... either notes or some other piece of paper they believed had been thrown" down it."

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Is this why there was a raid ?

Why would anyone throw paper down toilet ?

Any sensitive papers would be shredded first or even burned ,

What if this is just someone using the wrong toilet paper, paper that wouldn't flush and a cleaner made a complaint about the toilets being clogged .

   Donald has previously mentioned that toilets need the be flushed 15 times for the waste to go 

 

 

"Maggie Haberman, a New York Times reporter, claimed White House staff would "periodically find the toilet clogged" and would then discover "wads of clumped up, wet printed paper... either notes or some other piece of paper they believed had been thrown" down it."

The White House would not have a shredder. Papers would be collected, vetted and archived in secure storage. Nothing in the WH is allowed to be shredded, everything is a presidential record. Everything.

28 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Once again, you are labelling me a Trump supporter and then arguing against this assumed (but incorrect) position.

 

I am not a fan of Trump or Biden. I find Trump to be crass, rude and somewhat eccentric. Biden is borderline disfunctional at this stage and probably suffering from dementia. They are both economical with the truth.

 

However, I am against using state agencies to harrass political rivals. I always thought the USA was above that, it's a very slippery slope.

You make the assumption that this is harrassment.

 

Do you think ex-POTUSs are above the law?

 

Do you know how the classification system works, how the trail is kept, and what classified docs 45 has a right to hold (none)? As I have written above, the system for highly classified (above TS) is complex and sophisticated. The system would know how many hard copies exist and must account for all of them. It seems some highly sensitive docs were unaccounted for.

 

As for Biden being 'dysfunctional' or suffering from dementia...he just got a few critical Bills passed, so if that is dysfunctional, let's have more of it. Biden is now as Biden has always been. He has always spoken freely and made as many gaffes at 30 as he does today. That is a pretty cheap and baseless comment, not backed by reality. It has become a meme, but that does not make it true.

 

3.5% UE, rebuilt NATO and expanded NATO membership, $350 billion debt reduction in FY21 and $1.7 trillion in FY22, and gas back under $4/gal looks pretty functional. Apparently Biden spends an inordinate amount of time actually doing his job, rather than golfing or calling into Fox.

20 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Once again, you are labelling me a Trump supporter and then arguing against this assumed (but incorrect) position.

 

I am not a fan of Trump or Biden. I find Trump to be crass, rude and somewhat eccentric. Biden is borderline disfunctional at this stage and probably suffering from dementia. They are both economical with the truth.

 

However, I am against using state agencies to harrass political rivals. I always thought the USA was above that, it's a very slippery slope.

You are making malafide allegation that the search was political. Not only has the Biden's White House has came out and catergorically state that they were not aware. it don't make any sense that they want to upset Trump's supporters just after their biggest victory lap for getting the sweeping health and tax bill passed. 

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

You are making malafide allegation that the search was political. Not only has the Biden's White House has came out and catergorically state that they were not aware. it don't make any sense that they want to upset Trump's supporters just after their biggest victory lap for getting the sweeping health and tax bill passed. 

Thanks for "malafide'.

5 hours ago, Credo said:

I doubt anybody had to inform on him.  I think the National Archives knew he had them and where they were.  There was no one else who could do that.  The Archivists saw to it that there was a secure room for secret or sensitive documents but that doesn't give Trump the right to keep those docs.  And now they want them back and they have come to get them.

And knowing that trump might well try to use classified docs to try and blackmail someone or sell them to the highest bidder...they are classified for a reason.