POLITICS Trump says FBI raiding his Mar-a-Lago home

[ballpoint]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

As I said earlier, somebody pointed at the safe and handed  the FBI what they needed to get a warrant to bust the safe open.

 

 

I've never seen that safe before!  Well, maybe I met it once or twice.  But I never liked it!  Believe me, I know safes, I only buy the best safes, and that is the worst safe I've ever met! 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

We are talking about this particular raid and the A.G signed this raid off.

He gave permission for this raid .

  (YES, OK I admit I was wrong , I did use the word "raids" and I should have used the word "raid" to denote this raid in particular that we are talking about and it must have been confusing when I said "raids" instead of *raid* because it seemed like I meant all raids instead of the raid we are talking about )

A lot of what you say is confusing.

[Hanaguma]

Maybe...........this is it!

 

The bombshell!

The walls are closing in!!

This is the tipping point!!

This is the beginning of the end!!

 

Its like deja vu all over again.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

Neutral

 

“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” -Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride.

That's a weighty quote you've got there. Really hard hitting. I always quote fictional characters from fairytales when I really want to make my point ????.

 

It seems you are struggling with the meaning. Or maybe it is the concept you cannot understand, being so vitriolic towards Trump?

 

Allow me to assist.  

 

 

 

Still no news about the proverbial smoking gun found by The Dems, sorry I mean The FBI?

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by JonnyF

[LaosLover]

All Trump has to do is show his copy of the search warrant to support his claim of bad treatment. RawStory has a good bit on this.

 

And yet......

[Hanaguma]

Here is an interesting take from Alan Dershowitz- hardly a supporter of Trump;

 

The decision by the Justice Department to conduct a full-scale morning raid on Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Largo home does not seem justified, based on what we know as of now. If it is true that the basis of the raid was the former president’s alleged removal of classified material from the White House, that would constitute a double standard of justice.

There were no raids, for example, on the homes of Hillary Clinton or former Clinton administration national security adviser Sandy Berger for comparable allegations of mishandling official records in the recent past. Previous violations of the Presidential Records Act typically have been punished by administrative fines, not criminal prosecution. Perhaps there are legitimate reasons for applying a different standard to Trump’s conduct, but those are not readily obvious at this stage.

The more appropriate action would have been for a grand jury to issue a subpoena for any boxes of material that were seized and for Trump’s private safe that was opened. That would have given Trump’s lawyers the opportunity to challenge the subpoena on various grounds — that some of the material was not classified; that previous classified material was declassified by Trump; that other documents may be covered by various privileges, such as executive or lawyer-client.

 

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3594412-justice-department-should-have-subpoenaed-documents-not-raided-trumps-home/

[Walker88]

25 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Rebuilt NATO????

Gee, I see no argument.

 

NATO is now unified again. It's even adding two new members. 45 wanted to disband it, as he had no understanding of what it did for the world since its founding.

 

I find it astonishing how his cult believes all of his lies. It's either mass insanity or willful ignorance. 45 can grift all day long, and his cult keeps feeding him. It's a gaggle of old white losers who cannot accept responsibility for their own failures in life, and along comes 45 to give them both excuses and enemies to blame.

 

"Best economy ever" was one of his man spurious claims.

 

NOT     EVEN     CLOSE

 

A simple check of quarterly GDP figures going back to the end of WWII shows 45 to be a bottom dweller. That was BEFORE Covid. After Covid he sunk even lower.

 

Obama's job numbers and stock market while Obama served dwarf 45. Obama inherited a Recession and pulled the country out. 45 inherited growth and handed Biden a Recession.

 

What's worse, is that 45 added a 37% increase to the total national Debt, built up over 250 years. That is astonishing profligacy, and when debt growth exceeds GDP growth, that's called debt-fueled. Your neighbor maxes his credit cards buying a new F-150, a bassboat, a 50-cal Barrett sniper rifle, and pretends he's successful. Then the mailman comes with the bill. Seems he wasn't really killing it businesswise.

 

Now his cult is trying to come up with excuses why 45 should be forgiven for illegally removing and keeping classified docs, claiming it was in error and returning some of them (but keeping others). The same cult members joined in his chants of "Lock her up" for HRC's server, yet excuse what are likely massive security breaches of highly classified material. Pure hypocrisy.

 

I've written a lot already on the procedures involved in monitoring and tracking the most sensitive >TS material. The system would know what is missing (of hard copies made). The system would even know the date of printing hard copies and on whose printer.

 

45 is likely in deep trouble, He is coming to the realization he is not above the law.

[johnnybangkok]

10 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

That's a weighty quote you've got there. Really hard hitting. I always quote fictional characters from fairytales when I really want to make my point ????.

 

It seems you are struggling with the meaning. Or maybe it is the concept you cannot understand, being so vitriolic towards Trump?

 

Allow me to assist.  

 

 

 

Still no news about the proverbial smoking gun found by The Dems, sorry I mean The FBI?

 

Allow me to assist using your own defination.

 

You CANNOT call yourself neutral when you only argue one side of a debate. Which you do. Constantly.

 

 

[mikebike]

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Allow me to assist.  

 

 

 

Still no news about the proverbial smoking gun found by The Dems, sorry I mean The FBI?

Oh the irony is just delicious...

 

"I am NEUTRAL"... except when it comes to deliberate obfuscation! ????????????

 

The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.

[Walker88]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Here is an interesting take from Alan Dershowitz- hardly a supporter of Trump;

 

The decision by the Justice Department to conduct a full-scale morning raid on Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Largo home does not seem justified, based on what we know as of now. If it is true that the basis of the raid was the former president’s alleged removal of classified material from the White House, that would constitute a double standard of justice.

There were no raids, for example, on the homes of Hillary Clinton or former Clinton administration national security adviser Sandy Berger for comparable allegations of mishandling official records in the recent past. Previous violations of the Presidential Records Act typically have been punished by administrative fines, not criminal prosecution. Perhaps there are legitimate reasons for applying a different standard to Trump’s conduct, but those are not readily obvious at this stage.

The more appropriate action would have been for a grand jury to issue a subpoena for any boxes of material that were seized and for Trump’s private safe that was opened. That would have given Trump’s lawyers the opportunity to challenge the subpoena on various grounds — that some of the material was not classified; that previous classified material was declassified by Trump; that other documents may be covered by various privileges, such as executive or lawyer-client.

 

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3594412-justice-department-should-have-subpoenaed-documents-not-raided-trumps-home/

"Hardly a supporter of 45"

 

That's some funny stuff. dershowitz spent 4 years trying to have 45 appoint him to the SC. He sucked up endlessly.

 

As for 'declassified', a POTUS---not a former POTUS, by the way---can declassify, but it is formal. Perhaps dershowitz has all the memos regarding individual documents and secrets 45 declassified? Ha ha ha.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Gee, I see no argument.

 

NATO is now unified again. It's even adding two new members. 

Sweden and Finland applying to join NATO had nothing to do with Biden or the USA .

   Its Russia's war with Ukraine that is the reason why those Countries want to join NATO

[johnnybangkok]

9 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Here is an interesting take from Alan Dershowitz- hardly a supporter of Trump;

 

The decision by the Justice Department to conduct a full-scale morning raid on Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Largo home does not seem justified, based on what we know as of now. If it is true that the basis of the raid was the former president’s alleged removal of classified material from the White House, that would constitute a double standard of justice.

There were no raids, for example, on the homes of Hillary Clinton or former Clinton administration national security adviser Sandy Berger for comparable allegations of mishandling official records in the recent past. Previous violations of the Presidential Records Act typically have been punished by administrative fines, not criminal prosecution. Perhaps there are legitimate reasons for applying a different standard to Trump’s conduct, but those are not readily obvious at this stage.

The more appropriate action would have been for a grand jury to issue a subpoena for any boxes of material that were seized and for Trump’s private safe that was opened. That would have given Trump’s lawyers the opportunity to challenge the subpoena on various grounds — that some of the material was not classified; that previous classified material was declassified by Trump; that other documents may be covered by various privileges, such as executive or lawyer-client.

 

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3594412-justice-department-should-have-subpoenaed-documents-not-raided-trumps-home/

This point has already been debated but since you are late to the party, let's clear this one up for you. 

 

You would do a raid over a subpoena IF you thought a subpoenau would only be allowing the person to either destroy the evidence, change the eveidence or somehow 'lose' the evidence. 

 

This was obviously a distinct possibility with Trump, hence the raid.

[JonnyF]

Just now, johnnybangkok said:

Allow me to assist using your own defination.

 

You CANNOT call yourself neutral when you only argue one side of a debate. Which you do. Constantly.

 

 

Defination? Not heard of that one, is that another one of your favourite Fairytales? Sorry, not really my genre. 

 

But actually I AM neutral. I have stated multiple times on this thread that I do not like Trump and that he is a liar. However, because I also point out Biden's lies (in keeping with my neutrality) I am labelled a Trump fan by the hard leftists/Dems.

 

It's quite amusing when you think about it ????.

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Oh the irony is just delicious...

 

"I am NEUTRAL"... except when it comes to deliberate obfuscation! ????????????

 

The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.

Allow me to clarify my position, again. I will keep it as simple as possible as the audience appears to be struggling.

 

• I am neither Republican nor Democrat.
• I like neither Trump nor Biden.
• I believe yesterday's unprecendented raid was politically motivated, and I believe in due course evidence will show my opinion to be correct.

 

I fail to see any reason those 3 positions cannot be held simultaneously.

[LaosLover]

Good op ed in Wash Post bu Hugh Hewitt, a righty I respect, urging Trump to stop the drama queen BS and just show the warrant already.

 

Like his claim that he had Secret Service ready to testify that he didn't grab the wheel, it's time to put up or shut up.  Every day that oozes by makes him look shifty.

 

Show the warrant or shut up. Anyone disagree?

[LaosLover]

13 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Sweden and Finland applying to join NATO had nothing to do with Biden or the USA .

   Its Russia's war with Ukraine that is the reason why those Countries want to join NATO

If the US wasn't backing Ukraine, I suspect that Sweden and Finland would not feel brave enough to join.

[placeholder]

39 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

That's a weighty quote you've got there. Really hard hitting. I always quote fictional characters from fairytales when I really want to make my point ????.

 

It seems you are struggling with the meaning. Or maybe it is the concept you cannot understand, being so vitriolic towards Trump?

 

Allow me to assist.  

 

 

 

Still no news about the proverbial smoking gun found by The Dems, sorry I mean The FBI?

 

As exemplified by your statement that Trump critics here are "radical leftists" and "antifa types".

[Mac Mickmanus]

8 minutes ago, LaosLover said:

If the US wasn't backing Ukraine, I suspect that Sweden and Finland would not feel brave enough to join.

Finland have been brave enough to fight  wars with Russia on their own and win those wars

[LaosLover]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Finland have been brave enough to fight  wars with Russia on their own and win those wars

Dullsville, pedant subject switching and usual passive aggressive lie of pretending not to understand.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Trump's crime, if that's what it turns out to be, may simply be keeping classified documents he had no business keeping. This investigation doesn't have to be in furtherance of uncovering any other possible crimes.

Monday's FBI search came as part of an investigation into whether he took classified records from the White House to his Florida residence, so IMO and according to the law, was justified.

 

Trump himself confirmed the search publicly, with a fiery statement condemning it as "prosecutorial misconduct" and saying agents had opened up a safe in his home.

 

While Trump didn't say what the search was related to, the Justice Department has been investigating for months the potential mishandling of classified information. It started after the National Archives and Records Administration said it had received 15 boxes of White House records from Mar-a-Lago, including documents containing classified information.

 

If indeed he is found to have illegally taken classified records, then there is a catch, which may ensnare this moron, because Under Title 18 of the US Code, Section 2071, titled "Concealment, removal or mutilation generally". It concerns the mishandling of government documents.

The section states that any individual with "the custody" of such documents who "wilfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies or destroys" them "shall be fined or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States".

This would stop him running for election again, and will probably do the US a great deal of good!
 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by xylophone

[Walker88]

29 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Sweden and Finland applying to join NATO had nothing to do with Biden or the USA .

   Its Russia's war with Ukraine that is the reason why those Countries want to join NATO

And with NATO comes the US and its nuclear capability. That is a deterrent both nations sought. NATO nations contacted Biden to request troops and training, plus equipment upgrades. Biden responded.

 

Perhaps you have inside contacts in Foggy Bottom or Langley? Maybe Crystal City?

 

I'm guessing......No.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Walker88

[placeholder]

24 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Allow me to clarify my position, again. I will keep it as simple as possible as the audience appears to be struggling.

 

• I am neither Republican nor Democrat.
• I like neither Trump nor Biden.
• I believe yesterday's unprecendented raid was politically motivated, and I believe in due course evidence will show my opinion to be correct.

 

I fail to see any reason those 3 positions cannot be held simultaneously.

It's irrelevant whether you're a Republican or Democrat or declare yourself to be anything. Anyway, you're anonymous so such declarations are worthless. And Trump has neo-Nazi fans and white supremacist fans all over the  Europe. Are they Republicans? Are they Democrats?

 

You may not like Trump but I have yet to see you criticize him for anything other than his behaviour. 

 

And once again, you called critics of Trump here "radical leftists" and "antifa types." This is your idea of neutrality? Laughable.

Edited August 10, 2022 by placeholder

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Finland have been brave enough to fight  wars with Russia on their own and win those wars

And the Swedes?

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

And with NATO comes the US and its nuclear capability. That is a deterrent both nations sought. NATO nations contacted Biden to request troops and training, plus equipment upgrades. Biden responded.

 

Perhaps you have inside contacts in Foggy Bottom or Langley? Maybe Crystal City?

 

I'm guessing......No.

Well, apart from the fact that the U.K and France also have Nuclear weapons .

   I would prefer it if the U.K kept out the Ukraine/Russian war 

[JonnyF]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As exemplified by your statement that Trump critics here are "radical leftists" and "antifa types".

Not all. But some.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Not all. But some.

How do you know? What are your criteria? "Extreme leftists"?Has anyone here who has criticized Trump called for government control of all means of production? Have they called for an end to private property? As for "antifa types..." Do you know of anyone posting here who has violently confronted those they deem to be fascists?

Edited August 10, 2022 by placeholder

[ozimoron]

45 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Sweden and Finland applying to join NATO had nothing to do with Biden or the USA .

   Its Russia's war with Ukraine that is the reason why those Countries want to join NATO

USA's massive contribution to both NATO and the war effort generally had nothing to do with it? No diplomacy going on either? Sometimes you really like to push a line that is really improbable. If NATO was weakened as Trump tried to do they would have seen no point. They aren't getting weapons from NATO, they have their own. They are getting interoperability.

[LaosLover]

24 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Finland have been brave enough to fight  wars with Russia on their own and win those wars

Dullsville, pedant subject switching and usual passive aggressive lie of pretending not to understand.

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Not all. But some.

And you may be shocked to learn this but there are some right wing extremists posting defenses of Trumps. These people actually believe that the 2020 elections were stolen and that Trump really won. Or that they have doubts about it. Just to be clear, I'm in no way accusing you of being that far gone.

Edited August 10, 2022 by placeholder

[LaosLover]

The Biden Doctrine is that if you want to fight, we'll back you. 8 years of Obama restraint was well-intentioned, but counterproductive. Is there any doubt now that the US would defend any ally?

 

So just like I have to now love Liz Cheney, liberal swedes now are stuck with loving the likes of me.