Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, habanero said:

Really? Every time I purchase a firearm and do a background check, I am investigated by the FBI.

Just goes to show that you have missed the irony of the statements from the orange clown. Never mind, keep trying to understand!!

Edited August 17, 2022 by xylophone

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

US is not there YET but it's getting very close now. The US regime in Washington is now arresting their political adversaries. We're always crying about little laws politicians break but they never seem to be punished until it's a figure like Trump. What do non-Americans think of the last election where the outcome completely changed in the morning after un counted ballots came in after polls closed and people were sleeping? All of this sounds like some 3rd world country to me. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if some kind of coup happens in one of the following elections.

Perhaps Trump should not have encouraged the 6th Jan attacks on Capitol hill and when he left office took with him highly classified documents, then the US would not be where it is now.

[LosLobo]

2 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

US is not there YET but it's getting very close now. The US regime in Washington is now arresting their political adversaries. We're always crying about little laws politicians break but they never seem to be punished until it's a figure like Trump. What do non-Americans think of the last election where the outcome completely changed in the morning after un counted ballots came in after polls closed and people were sleeping? All of this sounds like some 3rd world country to me. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if some kind of coup happens in one of the following elections.

So, you weren't surprised when Trump tried to pull off "some kind of coup" on January 6th?

[xylophone]

1 minute ago, NorthernRyland said:

What do non-Americans think of the last election where the outcome completely changed in the morning after un counted ballots came in after polls closed and people were sleeping?

They think that people who believe that the election was rigged or stolen are nut-jobs. Every effort or law suit or argument to suggect that the election was stolen has been thrown out by lawyers and rational people and only the dumb believe the "stolen" election lie...........surely you are not in that camp, are you!

[NorthernRyland]

19 minutes ago, xylophone said:

surely you are not in that camp, are you!

all I know is that Trump was winning when I went to bed and when I woke up the election had swung. If I saw that pattern in another country I would assume it was fraud but there's this sense in the US that "it can't happen here, that's what happens in 3rd world countries" etc... I wouldn't put it past the regime in Washington of course.

 

Personally I don't see the point in voting with mail in ballots. You should get to vote during open hours while on video and when the polls close that's it. Count all the votes before everyone goes home and call it a day.

 

As it is now boxes of ballots can show up in the middle of the night, or whenever and we have to take their word they are valid. Americans don't trust the system enough at this point to conduct elections this way.

[Walker88]

48 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

US is not there YET but it's getting very close now. The US regime in Washington is now arresting their political adversaries. We're always crying about little laws politicians break but they never seem to be punished until it's a figure like Trump. What do non-Americans think of the last election where the outcome completely changed in the morning after un counted ballots came in after polls closed and people were sleeping? All of this sounds like some 3rd world country to me. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if some kind of coup happens in one of the following elections.

Silly silly comment. It shows a total lack of understanding of the rule of law, and drifts into the conspiratorial idiocy that has become the bread and butter of the fascists repub party.

 

Whom did the Dems arrest, and in a manner that reflects a political adversary? Moronic statement.

 

The DoJ did search 45's home because he was illegally holding material he had no right to hold, and he lied about what he had. It seems the current Administration takes national security seriously, besides believing in the rule of law.

 

You and the repubs have become a cult of personality, totally against everything the US was intended to be. Thankfully the Dems are still a patriotic party, not fascist scum like the repubs.

[coolcarer]

25 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

all I know is that Trump was winning when I went to bed and when I woke up the election had swung. If I saw that pattern in another country I would assume it was fraud but there's this sense in the US that "it can't happen here, that's what happens in 3rd world countries" etc... I wouldn't put it past the regime in Washington of course.

 

Personally I don't see the point in voting with mail in ballots. You should get to vote during open hours while on video and when the polls close that's it. Count all the votes before everyone goes home and call it a day.

 

As it is now boxes of ballots can show up in the middle of the night, or whenever and we have to take their word they are valid. Americans don't trust the system enough at this point to conduct elections this way.

Another one in the cult. Those mail in votes would have been fine by you if he had won eh

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

all I know is that Trump was winning when I went to bed and when I woke up the election had swung. If I saw that pattern in another country I would assume it was fraud but there's this sense in the US that "it can't happen here, that's what happens in 3rd world countries" etc... I wouldn't put it past the regime in Washington of course.

 

Personally I don't see the point in voting with mail in ballots. You should get to vote during open hours while on video and when the polls close that's it. Count all the votes before everyone goes home and call it a day.

 

As it is now boxes of ballots can show up in the middle of the night, or whenever and we have to take their word they are valid. Americans don't trust the system enough at this point to conduct elections this way.

What you seem to know is canned BIG LIE talking points.

You're simply parroting completely false information.

LOSERS in elections have access to courts to air grievances.

Trump did with his crew of bizarre lawyers in many many cases and came up completely empty.

Trump and everyone else who bothered to be informed knew that the RED MIRAGE was coming for many months before the election.

Trump, realizing his cult following doesn't bother being informed and have very short attention spans, understood he could and would claim victory even if he lost. So that's what he did. At his late date this grifting EX president has still not conceded. That indeed is the behavior of a leader of a tin pot banana republic dictatorship. 

 

What Is the Red Mirage? Meaning Behind Trump's False Sense of Victory (newsweek.com)
 

Quote

 

What Is the Red Mirage? Meaning Behind Trump's False Sense of Victory

Former President Donald Trump has continually said the 2020 election was "stolen" and "rigged," pointing to places where he had an early lead only to fall behind later as evidence but a former Fox News employee says this is commonly known as the "Red Mirage."On Monday, the House committee investigating the January 6, 2021, attack on the United States Capitol held its second televised hearing. During the Monday morning hearing, Chris Stirewalt, former Fox News political editor, testified before the committee and talked about the 2020 presidential election and some of what went into the networks' calls.

 

 

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Trump is like Thaksin who got too close to the seat of power in Thailand. The American regime simply will not accept unapproved candidates who are outside the Washington clique of Republicans and Democrats (aka the Uni-party).

As stated Thaksin went down in a coup. 

Trump lost an election and attempted a violent coup to corruptly hang on the power.

TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

 

What decent Americans don't want is a "president" (much of his deluded cult still think he is that) that thinks he is above the law, behaves like a Mafia Don, incites his private violent goon militia squads, grifts like grifting is going out of style, is a white nationalist authoritarian, and admires global dictators (like Putin) while consistently insulting long time democratic allies. 

[NorthernRyland]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

All the evidence says mass postal voter fraud is virtually impossible, due to the amount of attention ballots get from officials and party scrutineers..

 

No way, are you kidding? How do you even verify the person filled out the ballot? All they have is a signature and what are they comparing this against? There is no national database of signatures and there's not enough man power to carry this out. You could just print up the ballot and fill one out for another person then deliver it to the counters in the morning after you counted up the ballots needed to win.

 

[pomchop]

7 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

US is not there YET but it's getting very close now. The US regime in Washington is now arresting their political adversaries. We're always crying about little laws politicians break but they never seem to be punished until it's a figure like Trump. What do non-Americans think of the last election where the outcome completely changed in the morning after un counted ballots came in after polls closed and people were sleeping? All of this sounds like some 3rd world country to me. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if some kind of coup happens in one of the following elections.

god here we go again with the election results got changed when uncounted ballots came in while asleep...this has been explained and debunked over and over again through 60 court cases as well as numerous recounts and investigations done mostly by republicans and yet the BIG LIE goes on and on and on...give me a freaking break...either put up the EVIDENCE that nobody seems to have or shut up and stop spreading the same old BS..

[Credo]

21 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

No way, are you kidding? How do you even verify the person filled out the ballot? All they have is a signature and what are they comparing this against? There is no national database of signatures and there's not enough man power to carry this out. You could just print up the ballot and fill one out for another person then deliver it to the counters in the morning after you counted up the ballots needed to win.

 

Nonsense.  Mail in voting is secure.  It's very common in Arizona, which is a conservative leaning state and it's used heavily by people in more remotes part of the state.  If you are registered for early or mail-in voting, your signature is on file with the DMV and/or on your voter registration form.   

 

There are two systems for verifying the signature, the first is some computer program which scans the on-file signature against the envelope with the ballot.  The second is a scan by an actual person.   If there is any question about the validity of the signature, there is a phone number and address.  Before a ballot is discarded, they will contact the registered voter to determine if it actually their signature and ballot.   

 

So, just to recap, ballots are only sent out to a registered voter on the active voting list and who have requested either early voting or mail in.  When the ballot is received, the signature is verified and the ballot is entered into the system to be counted at the appropriate time.   

 

Please show me how any significant fraud that could affect the outcome of an election can occur.

[pomchop]

45 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

No way, are you kidding? How do you even verify the person filled out the ballot? All they have is a signature and what are they comparing this against? There is no national database of signatures and there's not enough man power to carry this out. You could just print up the ballot and fill one out for another person then deliver it to the counters in the morning after you counted up the ballots needed to win.

 

the election was almost two years ago and in spite of various plots, schemes, dreams, hopes, wishes, and theories, ballot inspections, vote recounts, court cases etc NOBODY has shown any EVIDENCE that there was ANY significant voter fraud.  PERIOD. 
But you have somehow figured it all out.  Get real. 

[heybruce]

13 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

You really are clueless aren't you? I believe if a democrat ex-pres had done this there would be no investigation and that this will be drawn out till mid-terms in a desperate attempt to salvage the tarnished image of biden. You think folks who post proTrump posts are automatically MAGA guys. Me I really don't want Trump to run again.

 

The sloppiness of the White house's record keeping is certainly in question. 

 

Oh yeah, it's entertaining reading all the over the top anti Trump comments. Such insane hatred  ????

 

 

Since no Democratic President, or any other politician I am aware of, was ever stupid enough to do what Trump did, we may never know.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

US is not there YET but it's getting very close now. The US regime in Washington is now arresting their political adversaries. We're always crying about little laws politicians break but they never seem to be punished until it's a figure like Trump. What do non-Americans think of the last election where the outcome completely changed in the morning after un counted ballots came in after polls closed and people were sleeping? All of this sounds like some 3rd world country to me. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if some kind of coup happens in one of the following elections.

What do I think of the election in which Democrats voted by absentee ballots in far greater numbers than Republicans and where that changed the outcome of close elections when those ballots were counted?  I think it unfolded just as everyone who was paying attention predicted.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

all I know is that Trump was winning when I went to bed and when I woke up the election had swung. If I saw that pattern in another country I would assume it was fraud but there's this sense in the US that "it can't happen here, that's what happens in 3rd world countries" etc... I wouldn't put it past the regime in Washington of course.

 

Personally I don't see the point in voting with mail in ballots. You should get to vote during open hours while on video and when the polls close that's it. Count all the votes before everyone goes home and call it a day.

 

As it is now boxes of ballots can show up in the middle of the night, or whenever and we have to take their word they are valid. Americans don't trust the system enough at this point to conduct elections this way.

"Personally I don't see the point in voting with mail in ballots. You should get to vote during open hours while on video and when the polls close that's it."

 

I see.  You want to disenfranchise senior citizens who have limited mobility, military people stationed outside their home state, snowbirds who are registered to vote in northern states but winter in the sunbelt, etc.

 

You want to disenfranchise a lot of Republican voters.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

No way, are you kidding? How do you even verify the person filled out the ballot? All they have is a signature and what are they comparing this against? There is no national database of signatures and there's not enough man power to carry this out. You could just print up the ballot and fill one out for another person then deliver it to the counters in the morning after you counted up the ballots needed to win.

 

Absentee ballots are only sent to, and accepted from, registered voters.  How would the people fraudulently filling out ballots know that the legitimate voters won't also vote?  Why aren't there stories of massive numbers of double vote attempts leading to investigations of the fraudulent absentee votes?  And why would people commit this crime and face the stiff penalties filling out fraudulent absentee ballots that will probably not affect the outcome of the election?

 

People who are willing to risk prison time to commit fraud usually want to commit a fraud that will pay well.  Voter fraud doesn't do that.

[Thailand]

Oh no, not more bad news!

 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/pence-says-he-would-consider-testifying-jan-6-capitol-riot-panel-2022-08-17/?taid=62fd6ac26c26260001920824&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

[xylophone]

14 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Oh yeah, it's entertaining reading all the over the top anti Trump comments. Such insane hatred  

I don't know that the so-called "hatred" of trump is "insane", but then again I could say, "what's not to hate?".

 

The man is a proven crook, a liar, a cheat and is absolutely two-faced when it comes to making sure that he benefits from anything he gets into – –this for example: – "A judge orders President Donald Trump to pay $2 million to settle a suit by New York’s attorney general alleging he misused his Trump Foundation charity to help his 2016 presidential campaign".

 

And so much more that it is difficult to understand how rational folk can support this conman.

[EVENKEEL]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

I don't know that the so-called "hatred" of trump is "insane", but then again I could say, "what's not to hate?".

 

The man is a proven crook, a liar, a cheat and is absolutely two-faced when it comes to making sure that he benefits from anything he gets into – –this for example: – "A judge orders President Donald Trump to pay $2 million to settle a suit by New York’s attorney general alleging he misused his Trump Foundation charity to help his 2016 presidential campaign".

 

And so much more that it is difficult to understand how rational folk can support this conman.

Keep the people focused on Trump is a good strategy by the dems. Keeps the spotlight off our president as he bungles along. Good business for the media as well.

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

Keep the people focused on Trump is a good strategy by the dems. Keeps the spotlight off our president as he bungles along. Good business for the media as well.

But there is plenty of news being reported on Biden and the Government, it is split 50/50 and not all one sided on Trumps issues, of course the Trump brigade believes that it is one sided, because they do not look or when they do they just post meme's like Biden falling from his bike etc....

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Trump is like Thaksin who got too close to the seat of power in Thailand. The American regime simply will not accept unapproved candidates who are outside the Washington clique of Republicans and Democrats (aka the Uni-party).

Sure. This is the guy who gave massive tax breaks to the rich. And appointed supreme Court Justice is who favored corporations and the welfare. He promised to give Medicare the power to negotiate drug prices with big pharma and reneged. Some threat!

[pomchop]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

"Personally I don't see the point in voting with mail in ballots. You should get to vote during open hours while on video and when the polls close that's it."

 

I see.  You want to disenfranchise senior citizens who have limited mobility, military people stationed outside their home state, snowbirds who are registered to vote in northern states but winter in the sunbelt, etc.

 

You want to disenfranchise a lot of Republican voters.

but hey when he went to sleep trump was winning and when he woke up he was not....that sure looks like hard core solid evidence of massive voter fraud to anyone who gulps kool aide....pathetic.

[JonnyF]

12 hours ago, billd766 said:

There is that word again

 

IF   

 

IF I get the numbers right I can win the lottery.

 

IF I get a full nights sleep I will be happy.

 

IF  is really whataboutery, and until it proceeds further, IF is a waste of time.

Correct. Let's keep an open mind to both possibilities.

 

They could have found highly incriminating evidence and are keeping their powder dry. They could have found something extremely minor and are deciding whether it is worth it to indict. They could have found absolutely nothing and are considering what to do next.

 

An FBI raid is not proof that a crime has been committed, especially in this somewhat dubious political context. Let's not lock anyone up and throw away the key just yet. 

[Excel]

3 minutes ago, pomchop said:

but hey when he went to sleep trump was winning and when he woke up he was not....that sure looks like hard core solid evidence of massive voter fraud to anyone who gulps kool aide....pathetic.

Perhaps you should stay awake more instead of laying their dreaming ????

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, pomchop said:

either put up the EVIDENCE that nobody seems to have or shut up and stop spreading the same old BS..

All anyone keeps saying is that it has been debunked. I didn't watch hours of court cases, how does this work? Tell me how can verify the signature and whether the ballot was actually sent before polls closed. There are millions of them to be accounted for and limited personal counting. 

 

And another thing if you can vote and have the election results changed overnight while you're sleeping this is disqualifying by itself. I'm not gonna waste time voting (I didn't vote in 2020 btw) if boxes of ballots can just  appear and I'm told to shut up for questioning where all these came from. Every election could be rigged going forward and we'll be told the question was settled in 2020 so shut and accept the results.

 

OK I've ranted enough. Mail in ballots are just one more reason you're a sucker for voting in US elections.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

No way, are you kidding? How do you even verify the person filled out the ballot? All they have is a signature and what are they comparing this against? There is no national database of signatures and there's not enough man power to carry this out. You could just print up the ballot and fill one out for another person then deliver it to the counters in the morning after you counted up the ballots needed to win.

 

Other posters have answered your post,  much better than I could because they have  knowledge of the mail-in process. I'm just going by the statement in Wikipedia no-one has ever found mail-in ballots to be a source of election fraud. Trump and his lawyers were trying their absolute best to find evidence otherwise, and they got thrown out by every court in the land, some with Republican judges.

 

I do understand conspiracy theorists will clutch at the flimsiest straw if it supports their irrational beliefs.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

All anyone keeps saying is that it has been debunked. I didn't watch hours of court cases, how does this work? Tell me how can verify the signature and whether the ballot was actually sent before polls closed. There are millions of them to be accounted for and limited personal counting. 

 

And another thing if you can vote and have the election results changed overnight while you're sleeping this is disqualifying by itself. I'm not gonna waste time voting (I didn't vote in 2020 btw) if boxes of ballots can just  appear and I'm told to shut up for questioning where all these came from. Every election could be rigged going forward and we'll be told the question was settled in 2020 so shut and accept the results.

 

OK I've ranted enough. Mail in ballots are just one more reason you're a sucker for voting in US elections.

Got it, so because you fell asleep and then woke up to a result you were not expecting its rigged.

[newnative]

7 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

all I know is that Trump was winning when I went to bed and when I woke up the election had swung. If I saw that pattern in another country I would assume it was fraud but there's this sense in the US that "it can't happen here, that's what happens in 3rd world countries" etc... I wouldn't put it past the regime in Washington of course.

 

Personally I don't see the point in voting with mail in ballots. You should get to vote during open hours while on video and when the polls close that's it. Count all the votes before everyone goes home and call it a day.

 

As it is now boxes of ballots can show up in the middle of the night, or whenever and we have to take their word they are valid. Americans don't trust the system enough at this point to conduct elections this way.

   Surely you should know this by now but the reason Trump was leading on election night when you went to bed was that thousands and thousands of mailed-in ballots had either not been counted yet or added to the vote tallies.  Some had not even arrived yet to be counted as some states allow mail-in ballots to be postmarked on election day.  Pennsylvania law in 2020 did not even allow the mail-in ballots to start to be counted until after the polls closed.  Obviously, mail-in ballots take much longer to tabulate than automated voting machines.

     In the run-up to the 2020 election as part of his Big Lie, Trump, at every opportunity, spread the falsehood that mail-in voting was fraudulent and could cost him the election.  He urged his voters to shun mail-in voting and vote on election day--which they did.  Trump won more election day votes in many states--he even almost won more election day votes in Delaware, Biden's home state.  That gave a false sense of him winning the election because the mail-in votes in many cases had not been added to the vote totals on election night.  When they eventually were, Biden took the lead.

     Trump suspected he might lose and the Big Lie plan was put in place well before the election.  If he lost, he had already done the ground work with his mail-in ballot lies.  When he did lose, he could immediately claim the election was 'stolen' from him--by fraudulent mail-in ballots. 

    So, the plan was, spout the Big Lie loud and at every opportunity that the election was 'stolen', the Biden electors illegal, and send the election to the Supreme Court to decide, as it had done in the 2000 election.  Didn't quite work out but, to this day, as evidenced on this thread, there are still the gullible who believe the Big Lie, despite overwhelming evidence that Biden won fair and square.  Funnily, most of the few instances of voter fraud I have seen uncovered have been by Republicans, not Democrats.  But, nothing that would have altered the outcome of the election.

    To use one of Trump's favorite words, the 'beautiful' irony is that Trump could have actually won the election if he had believed in himself and played fair instead of using his usual idiotic scheming and lies.  Instead of spending so much time and effort spreading lies about mail-in voting, he should have embraced it wholeheartedly.   He should have, like Biden, urged his voters to get registered and vote early by mail, while encouraging their friends to do the same.  

     I'll never understand why he allowed Biden to get so far ahead in the race with early mail-in voting while he urged his voters to not get into the race until election day.  Biden had months to get his voters out, Trump the few election day hours.   Wouldn't you do a better job of something with months rather than a few, frantic hours?

     By election day, Biden's lead was too much to overcome.  I can't find the article now but I remember reading at the time the number of voters who intended to vote on election day but didn't actually vote.  Something came up.  Baby sick, had to work over-time, bad weather, unexpectedly called out of town, had to pick up the kid at band practice, couldn't remember where to vote, car wouldn't start, having a bad hair day, whatever.   They certainly had every good intention to vote, but . . .   Since Biden got 58% of his votes by mail-in and Trump just 32%, it's likely Trump left more potential voters uncounted than Biden.

     Biden would have still won the popular vote by 7 million or so but, had Trump gotten out his voters early with a big, splashy push for them to vote by mail, he might have gotten just enough extra votes to win the required 270 Electoral College votes, and the Presidency, in the states that he lost by only a few thousand votes.  After all, he had managed to win the Electoral College in 2016 even though Clinton easily won the popular vote.  Instead, he made the crucial error of going with the Big Lie and trashing mail-in voting.   A Grateful Nation Thanks You, Donald, for being such an idiot. 

     

[placeholder]

34 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

OK I've ranted enough. Mail in ballots are just one more reason you're a sucker for voting in US elections.

I just hope lots of Trump fans take your advice. Trump was credited with getting 2 Democratic senators elected in Georgia by attacking the electoral system there. This discouraged his supporters from turning out. Keep up the good work!