Biden speech denouncing Trump, 'MAGA ideology' sparks threats, calls for violence

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Yes, hatred of white supremacists and KKK types, as evidenced in my quotes. 

Hate of anyone who doesn't support him, which includes many of his former inner circle.

[LosLobo]

12 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Irrelevant. Stop trying to muddy the waters. 

 

We were talking about Biden and his false accusation. Are you willing to concede that Joe was wrong to accuse Trump of calling neo nazis "fine people"? That Trump has in fact heartily condemned racists and their ilk on numerous occasions?

"Muddy the waters" That is Trump's playbook!

 

Trump's always covers his ****, by firstly clearly promoting his hate rhetoric, then days later walking it back. This gives approval to the supremacists then the walk back provides cover for his apologists and general confusion. Propagandist's main objective is to create confusion, so no-one believes the truth anymore. It seems to have worked on 73 million.

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by LosLobo

[Hanaguma]

17 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

"Muddy the waters" That is Trump's playbook!

 

Trump's always covers his ****, by firstly clearly promoting his hate rhetoric, then days later walking it back. This gives approval to the supremacists then the walk back provides cover for his apologists and general confusion. Propagandist's main objective is to create confusion, so no-one believes the truth anymore. It seems to have worked on 73 million.

 

Is it possible, just maybe, for a political discussion to not devolve into a Trump-based whingefest?  Bad enough that the current occupant of the White House does it, no need for everyone else to as well. 

 

The former President isn't on the ballot this fall. The current administration IS, at least in policy form. That is why I found it rather discomfiting that President Biden said nothing at all about the issues that Americans care about in his speech. Inflation, gas and energy policy, immigration, none were even given a word.  Which is a sad testament to the current administration. They see their only path to victory is in trying to re-win the past election and hope people don't notice.

[heybruce]

33 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Is it possible, just maybe, for a political discussion to not devolve into a Trump-based whingefest?  Bad enough that the current occupant of the White House does it, no need for everyone else to as well. 

 

The former President isn't on the ballot this fall. The current administration IS, at least in policy form. That is why I found it rather discomfiting that President Biden said nothing at all about the issues that Americans care about in his speech. Inflation, gas and energy policy, immigration, none were even given a word.  Which is a sad testament to the current administration. They see their only path to victory is in trying to re-win the past election and hope people don't notice.

"The former President isn't on the ballot this fall."

 

Really?  Tell that to all the candidates he endorsed, and all the candidates that feared to speak truthfully about his attempts to overthrow the election.  Tell that to McConnell, who will not become Speaker of the Senate because Trump's endorsement resulted in primary victories for candidates that will lose in November.

[Berkshire]

38 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Is it possible, just maybe, for a political discussion to not devolve into a Trump-based whingefest?  Bad enough that the current occupant of the White House does it, no need for everyone else to as well. 

 

The former President isn't on the ballot this fall. The current administration IS, at least in policy form. That is why I found it rather discomfiting that President Biden said nothing at all about the issues that Americans care about in his speech. Inflation, gas and energy policy, immigration, none were even given a word.  Which is a sad testament to the current administration. They see their only path to victory is in trying to re-win the past election and hope people don't notice.

The US economy is doing well, gas and energy prices going down. inflation stabilizing/going down, unemployment at record lows.  Immigration issues are the same as it always has been, including under Trump.  So there's to the issues you think Americans care about.  As for issues Americans really care about, yes democracy is under threat because of Trump and his acolytes and American women don't appreciate having the rights to their own bodies being taken away by the government.  And yes, MAGA morons are a threat to the American way of life.

[placeholder]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:27 PM, Hanaguma said:

Is it possible, just maybe, for a political discussion to not devolve into a Trump-based whingefest?  Bad enough that the current occupant of the White House does it, no need for everyone else to as well. 

 

The former President isn't on the ballot this fall. The current administration IS, at least in policy form. That is why I found it rather discomfiting that President Biden said nothing at all about the issues that Americans care about in his speech. Inflation, gas and energy policy, immigration, none were even given a word.  Which is a sad testament to the current administration. They see their only path to victory is in trying to re-win the past election and hope people don't notice.

I've got some news for you. The subject is "Biden speech denouncing Trump, 'MAGA ideology' sparks threats, calls for violence"

Not every speech has to address every issue. Especially when American democracy is under serious threat. Are you contending that Americans aren't worried about the threat posed by Trump to democracy? A majority of Americans agree with Biden about Trump.

" According to a new poll, a majority of Americans agree.

The findings came in a Reuters/Ipsos poll, published on Thursday.

In the survey, 58 per cent of Americans agreed with the statement that Donald Trump and his ongoing efforts to cast doubt on the results of the 2020 election are dangerous and a threat to the rule of law."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/biden-trump-poll-democracy-threat-b2163261.html

 

Who are you to decide what's a legitimate electoral issue and what isn't? 

You also left the Supreme Court's decision on abortion off your list of legitimate electoral issues. As recent actual elections show, lots of Americans disagree with you as do virtually all polls.

 

And Americans overwhelmingly support govt programs to promote clean energy

Survey Finds Majority of Voters Support Initiatives to Fight Climate Change

A survey carried out after the November election found that 66 percent of respondents said that developing sources of clean energy should be a high or very high priority.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/15/climate/climate-change-survey.html

 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by metisdead
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[Hanaguma]

26 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

The US economy is doing well, gas and energy prices going down. inflation stabilizing/going down, unemployment at record lows.  Immigration issues are the same as it always has been, including under Trump.  So there's to the issues you think Americans care about.  As for issues Americans really care about, yes democracy is under threat because of Trump and his acolytes and American women don't appreciate having the rights to their own bodies being taken away by the government.  And yes, MAGA morons are a threat to the American way of life.

According to Pew Research, these are the top 10 issues in order of importance: economy, gun policy, violent crime, health care, voting policy, education, Supreme Court, abortion, energy policy, immigration.  How many of these issues did Biden address in his speech? How many do Democrats want to talk about at all?

 

I don't see "democracy under threat" on that list. Gas prices? $2.28 a gallon in December 2020, stlil averaging $4.00 now, hardly a win for Biden.   Inflation? 1.4% in December 2020, nearly 8% today. As for the abortion issue, it is pretty much 50/50. Most Americans favor some limits on abortion availability. Few are extreme- either wanting it banned or wanting it legal until the moment of birth. 

 

So what has Joe done to be proud of exactly?  He would surely be campaigning on his record if he had one to tout. Not trying to drum up old divisions and fears.

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Is it possible, just maybe, for a political discussion to not devolve into a Trump-based whingefest?  Bad enough that the current occupant of the White House does it, no need for everyone else to as well. 

 

The former President isn't on the ballot this fall. The current administration IS, at least in policy form. That is why I found it rather discomfiting that President Biden said nothing at all about the issues that Americans care about in his speech. Inflation, gas and energy policy, immigration, none were even given a word.  Which is a sad testament to the current administration. They see their only path to victory is in trying to re-win the past election and hope people don't notice.

They don't need to re-win the past election they already won it!

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

They don't need to re-win the past election they already won it!

Exactly, so why keep re-fighting it?  Seems a bit of an insecurity complex at work. I can understand the mass media doing it. I mean, Trump was GREAT for business and they are pining for the ratings he used to draw. But normal people?  Need to get over it and stop letting the Bad Orange Man dominate their days. He lost, he's just private citizen Trump now, stop the obsession. Otherwise, you are just giving him what he craves- attention. 

[Berkshire]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

So what has Joe done to be proud of exactly?  He would surely be campaigning on his record if he had one to tout. Not trying to drum up old divisions and fears.

President Biden has had more legislative victories in less than two years than almost any President in recent memory.  But nevermind that.  I know Republicans are getting desperate because what looked like a typical mid-term cruise to victory for the party not in power is looking rather grim.  You sound a lot like them folks.   

[Eric Loh]

10 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

don't see "democracy under threat"

See it now?

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/03/1069764164/american-democracy-poll-jan-6

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

See it now?

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/03/1069764164/american-democracy-poll-jan-6

Any article that uses the heinous anti-semitic slur "Big Lie" as part of its story is not worth reading. Also note that this article is 8 months old.  The actual research done by Pew that I cited is within the past month.  Please refer to it and comment.

[Hanaguma]

12 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

President Biden has had more legislative victories in less than two years than almost any President in recent memory.  But nevermind that.  I know Republicans are getting desperate because what looked like a typical mid-term cruise to victory for the party not in power is looking rather grim.  You sound a lot like them folks.   

Could you perhaps be a bit more specific?   All I see are big government spending projects that made inflation worse and feathered the beds of politically connected people.  Plus an elderly man who should not be in charge of a nation. Joe should be thanked for his service and retired. I mean, he already IS half retired if you look at how much time he spends away from the White House. 

[Eric Loh]

11 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Any article that uses the heinous anti-semitic slur "Big Lie" as part of its story is not worth reading. Also note that this article is 8 months old.  The actual research done by Pew that I cited is within the past month.  Please refer to it and comment.

You said you haven’t seen any survey on democracy under threat and I gave you one. So now you shift the goal post and make your ignorance conditional. You are wasting my time. 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Could you perhaps be a bit more specific?   All I see are big government spending projects that made inflation worse and feathered the beds of politically connected people.  Plus an elderly man who should not be in charge of a nation. Joe should be thanked for his service and retired. I mean, he already IS half retired if you look at how much time he spends away from the White House. 

Misdirection much?. Whether you agree with them or not, they are legislative victories.

 

How many hours does Biden spend lounging in a nightgown watching Foxnews? How many hours does he block for something unspecfied that his predecessor called "Executive Time". And the ultimate criterion of how effective an executive is not how much time he spends away from the office but  how much business actually gets done. Biden wins.

[Bkk Brian]

54 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Any article that uses the heinous anti-semitic slur "Big Lie" as part of its story is not worth reading. Also note that this article is 8 months old.  The actual research done by Pew that I cited is within the past month.  Please refer to it and comment.

Would you like some more up to dates ones as well? They don't even contain the "Big Lie" in the headlines but I'm sure you'll find something to discard them:

 

1st Sept 2022 Americans Are Increasingly Fearful That Democracy Will Collapse

More Americans are concerned that democracy in the U.S. is in danger of collapse, according to a new poll from Quinnipiac University.

The poll's findings, which were published on Wednesday, come ahead of President Joe Biden's scheduled prime-time address to the nation on Thursday night. Biden is expected to address threat to democracy during the speech.

 

1st Sept 2022 Americans continue to feel U.S. democracy is under threat

Americans continue to believe democracy and the rule of law are under threat — a view that's remained high over the last year and is at 72% today — though they believe that for an assortment of reasons. The influence of money in politics tops the list of reasons, among those who feel it is threatened. The potential for political violence concerns most across party lines. Two-thirds cite people trying to overturn elections as a major threat. Just under half of Americans believe a major threat comes from people voting illegally, but this view is held by a majority of Republicans .

 

[Hanaguma]

54 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You said you haven’t seen any survey on democracy under threat and I gave you one. So now you shift the goal post and make your ignorance conditional. You are wasting my time. 

No, I didn't. I said that it didn't figure in the latest Pew research. You gave me an 8 month old article.  I am sure that some people care about it, but according to Pew there are many other issues that are seen as more pressing. 

[Hanaguma]

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Would you like some more up to dates ones as well? They don't even contain the "Big Lie" in the headlines but I'm sure you'll find something to discard them:

 

1st Sept 2022 Americans Are Increasingly Fearful That Democracy Will Collapse

More Americans are concerned that democracy in the U.S. is in danger of collapse, according to a new poll from Quinnipiac University.

The poll's findings, which were published on Wednesday, come ahead of President Joe Biden's scheduled prime-time address to the nation on Thursday night. Biden is expected to address threat to democracy during the speech.

 

1st Sept 2022 Americans continue to feel U.S. democracy is under threat

Americans continue to believe democracy and the rule of law are under threat — a view that's remained high over the last year and is at 72% today — though they believe that for an assortment of reasons. The influence of money in politics tops the list of reasons, among those who feel it is threatened. The potential for political violence concerns most across party lines. Two-thirds cite people trying to overturn elections as a major threat. Just under half of Americans believe a major threat comes from people voting illegally, but this view is held by a majority of Republicans .

 

The Newsweek article resorted to "the Big Lie", so it is tainted. 

 

The CBS results were interesting, but again does not put "threats to democracy" in context of other issues that are on the minds of voters.  Pew does.  Also showed that money and violence were the two biggest threats.

 

These are sadly bipartisan problems, if anything more prevalent on the left.  I mean, you see the Democrats actively funding MAGA candidates in primaries these days- all in the hopes of getting GOP candidates they think are beatable. How cynical is that? 

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The Newsweek article resorted to "the Big Lie", so it is tainted. 

 

The CBS results were interesting, but again does not put "threats to democracy" in context of other issues that are on the minds of voters.  Pew does.  Also showed that money and violence were the two biggest threats.

 

These are sadly bipartisan problems, if anything more prevalent on the left.  I mean, you see the Democrats actively funding MAGA candidates in primaries these days- all in the hopes of getting GOP candidates they think are beatable. How cynical is that? 

The Newsweek article is a poll from Quinnipiac University ????

 

Biden's Approval Rating Surges After Hitting Low Mark In July, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Half Of Americans Say Trump Should Be Prosecuted On Criminal Charges Over His Handling Of Classified Documents

Americans 67 - 29 percent think the nation's democracy is in danger of collapse. This is a 9-point increase from Quinnipiac University's January 12, 2022 poll when it was 58 - 37 percent.

https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3854

 

CBS poll speaks for itself:

 

 

[Berkshire]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The Newsweek article resorted to "the Big Lie", so it is tainted. 

 

The CBS results were interesting, but again does not put "threats to democracy" in context of other issues that are on the minds of voters.  Pew does.  Also showed that money and violence were the two biggest threats.

 

These are sadly bipartisan problems, if anything more prevalent on the left.  I mean, you see the Democrats actively funding MAGA candidates in primaries these days- all in the hopes of getting GOP candidates they think are beatable. How cynical is that? 

Man, you're just jumping all over the place.  Firstly, the Big Lie is understood by everyone that it's Trump's fake claim of election fraud in 2020.  It's "big" and it's a "lie," pretty accurate.  The only people who would claim that the term is "tainted" are those who believe Trump won the election.  Who cares what those people think.

 

As for Dem's supporting MAGA candidates, Trump was no different.  He was pushing for Bernie Sanders to get the Democratic nomination prior to the 2020 election because he knew Sanders was more beatable.

 

[President Trump has stepped up his efforts to boost Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign and to sow doubts among Sanders’ supporters about the fairness of the nomination process, an update of the disruptive strategy he believes helped him win the White House four years ago.]

[Many of Trump’s allies see Sanders as the most beatable Democrat in November, although there is growing debate over whether they are underestimating Sanders’ ability to galvanize a hidden bloc of disgruntled voters, as Trump did in 2016.]

 

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-02-28/trump-seeks-to-boost-sanders-and-foment-discord-among-democrats

[Hanaguma]

28 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Man, you're just jumping all over the place.  Firstly, the Big Lie is understood by everyone that it's Trump's fake claim of election fraud in 2020.  It's "big" and it's a "lie," pretty accurate.  The only people who would claim that the term is "tainted" are those who believe Trump won the election.  Who cares what those people think.

 

As for Dem's supporting MAGA candidates, Trump was no different.  He was pushing for Bernie Sanders to get the Democratic nomination prior to the 2020 election because he knew Sanders was more beatable.

 

[President Trump has stepped up his efforts to boost Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign and to sow doubts among Sanders’ supporters about the fairness of the nomination process, an update of the disruptive strategy he believes helped him win the White House four years ago.]

[Many of Trump’s allies see Sanders as the most beatable Democrat in November, although there is growing debate over whether they are underestimating Sanders’ ability to galvanize a hidden bloc of disgruntled voters, as Trump did in 2016.]

 

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-02-28/trump-seeks-to-boost-sanders-and-foment-discord-among-democrats

"The Big Lie" was an anti-semitic trope used by Hitler and the Nazis to falsely smear their Jewish compatriots.  It is gaining traction lately in an attempt to link the GOP to Hitler's goons. But it really comes across as hysterical and not appropriate and has no place in modern politics.

 

"But Trump did it" is a pretty poor excuse for the Democrats' strategy. Are your standards really that low? Plus at the time the GOP wasn't pushing a narrative that Democrats were threatening the foundations of the Republic. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. IF "MAGA people" are actually a serious and unique threat to the country, it is the height of cynicism and hypocrisy to spend even one thin dime to get them nominated.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

"The Big Lie" was an anti-semitic trope used by Hitler and the Nazis to falsely smear their Jewish compatriots.  It is gaining traction lately in an attempt to link the GOP to Hitler's goons. But it really comes across as hysterical and not appropriate and has no place in modern politics.

 

"But Trump did it" is a pretty poor excuse for the Democrats' strategy. Are your standards really that low? Plus at the time the GOP wasn't pushing a narrative that Democrats were threatening the foundations of the Republic. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. IF "MAGA people" are actually a serious and unique threat to the country, it is the height of cynicism and hypocrisy to spend even one thin dime to get them nominated.

Would you prefer they referred to it as "The Big Election Lie"? both mean the same thing but send in suggestions on a postcard.

 

However Trump prefers the term "The Big Lie"

 

Former President Donald Trump on Monday announced he’ll begin to use the term “the big lie” – commonly used by his critics to describe his baseless election fraud claims – to refer to the 2020 election results, a sign he has no plans to tone down his rhetoric as one social media platform adjudicates his suspension.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/05/03/trump-says-hell-appropriate-the-big-lie-to-refer-to-his-election-loss/?sh=147e1eb95584

[LosLobo]

23 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

"The Big Lie" was an anti-semitic trope used by Hitler and the Nazis to falsely smear their Jewish compatriots.  It is gaining traction lately in an attempt to link the GOP to Hitler's goons. But it really comes across as hysterical and not appropriate and has no place in modern politics.

 

"But Trump did it" is a pretty poor excuse for the Democrats' strategy. Are your standards really that low? Plus at the time the GOP wasn't pushing a narrative that Democrats were threatening the foundations of the Republic. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. IF "MAGA people" are actually a serious and unique threat to the country, it is the height of cynicism and hypocrisy to spend even one thin dime to get them nominated.

Chancellor Hitler, Franz von Papen and National Catholic Party.

Trump's admiration for Hitler.

President Trump, GOP and Federalist Society.

Join the dots!

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

No, I didn't. I said that it didn't figure in the latest Pew research. You gave me an 8 month old article.  I am sure that some people care about it, but according to Pew there are many other issues that are seen as more pressing. 

You said that according to PEW research there are many other issues that are more pressing than threat to democracy. What about providing PEW research showing the threat to democracy is not a pressing issue compare to the list you provided. You are making assumption not backed up by real data to suit your narrative with malefide intention. 

[Hanaguma]

5 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You said that according to PEW research there are many other issues that are more pressing than threat to democracy. What about providing PEW research showing the threat to democracy is not a pressing issue compare to the list you provided. You are making assumption not backed up by real data to suit your narrative with malefide intention. 

?

 

Sorry I don't get what you want.  I provided a "top 10" list of issues that voters think are very important. The "threat to democracy" did not make the list. Neither did environmental concerns, interestingly.   So I am not sure what you want.  

[Hanaguma]

29 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Chancellor Hitler, Franz von Papen and National Catholic Party.

Trump's admiration for Hitler.

President Trump, GOP and Federalist Society.

Join the dots!

Please, you need to step away from the conspiracy theories.  There are no dots to join. Trump is an ex president and is feeding off the fear of uninformed and easily panicked people.  He really isn't that important, you need to stop paying attention to him. Better to concentrate on the current administration and how THEIR policies are influencing your life. Trump has no influence, other than what you choose to give him.

[Hanaguma]

44 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Would you prefer they referred to it as "The Big Election Lie"? both mean the same thing but send in suggestions on a postcard.

 

However Trump prefers the term "The Big Lie"

 

Former President Donald Trump on Monday announced he’ll begin to use the term “the big lie” – commonly used by his critics to describe his baseless election fraud claims – to refer to the 2020 election results, a sign he has no plans to tone down his rhetoric as one social media platform adjudicates his suspension.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/05/03/trump-says-hell-appropriate-the-big-lie-to-refer-to-his-election-loss/?sh=147e1eb95584

Trump is equally at fault for using it. No one covered in glory here. 

 

Probably the best thing to do is not refer to it at all. It is history and has no bearing on the current situation. Trump lost, he was butt-hurt, but he'll get over it. But he will get over it a lot slower if you keep him in your dreams.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Trump is equally at fault for using it. No one covered in glory here. 

 

Probably the best thing to do is not refer to it at all. It is history and has no bearing on the current situation. Trump lost, he was butt-hurt, but he'll get over it. But he will get over it a lot slower if you keep him in your dreams.

Probably the best thing to do is for you not to use it as a deflection for poll results in articles

[LosLobo]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Please, you need to step away from the conspiracy theories.  

"Please, you need to step away from the conspiracy theories."

 

Possibly you and all Trump supporters need some reflection on your statement!

[Eric Loh]

7 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

?

 

Sorry I don't get what you want.  I provided a "top 10" list of issues that voters think are very important. The "threat to democracy" did not make the list. Neither did environmental concerns, interestingly.   So I am not sure what you want.  

Have you glean the bottom of the research paper and check the questions used for this research? The 10 issues are the categories that were provided to the participants. And you asked why there was no threat to democracy. LOL.