Will Thailand’s new residency visa achieve results?

[webfact]

File photo for reference only

 

Author: Paul Green, University of Melbourne

 

On 1 September 2022, Thailand introduced a new Long-Term Resident (LTR) visa program. The program offers a 10-year renewable visa and a range of tax and non-tax benefits to four distinct categories of foreigners. These are wealthy global citizens, wealthy pensioners, work-from-Thailand professionals and highly skilled professionals.

Thailand’s Board of Investment reckons the LTR program will attract wealthy, ‘high-potential’ and talented individuals, who in turn will stimulate economic growth, through innovation, investment and domestic spending. Thailand’s government has set a target of attracting one million foreigners into the program over the next five years.

 

This target seems overly optimistic. The LTR visa enters a highly competitive global industry of long-term and second-home visa programs because of its focus on attracting wealthy global citizens. But it is difficult to envisage why applicants would invest at least US$500,000 in Thai property or low-yield Thai government bonds to be approved for this visa if they are expected to hold US$1 million in assets.

 

Neighbouring Malaysia demonstrates the potential of this new visa policy to entice wealthy pensioners to Thailand. Since 2002, Malaysia’s My Second Home (MM2H) program has provided foreign retirees with a 10-year renewable visa to build a life in Malaysia. It is viewed as a success story in a global market of lifestyle-related visa options. Even so, between 2002 and 2017 the program attracted an average of only 2433 approved applicants per year.

 

Political wrangling that fuelled recent changes to the MM2H program is likely to have undermined consumer confidence in long-term visa packages in the region. After a pause in applications during the COVID-19 pandemic and uncertainty over the status of existing visa holders, the program re-emerged in October 2021 with higher financial requirements and expectations. By August 2022, the newly revamped MM2H program had received just 267 applications, with a further 1461 withdrawals.

 

Though Thailand’s LTR visa aims to attract ‘high-potential’ foreign talent and technologies, the eligibility criteria is conservative and risk-adverse. Work-from-anywhere professionals, for example, are expected to work for a public company listed on the stock exchange or an established private company with a combined revenue of at least US$150 million over the previous three years.

 

Full story: https://www.eastasiaforum.org/2023/01/13/will-thailands-new-residency-visa-achieve-results/

 

-- © Copyright NNT 2023-01-14

 

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[lujanit]

I know a wealthy Yank who has purchased numerous properties here (2 x Condos as well as a house (under a Thai name)) who could easily meet the USD500k requirements and yet she choose to pay an agent for a retirement extension.  She said it was easier and less hassle.

[MRToMRT]

I understand that those applying in Bangkok don't have to go to CW ever again as its a BOI system.

 

That's gotta be a plus.

[ThailandRyan]

35 minutes ago, lujanit said:

I know a wealthy Yank who has purchased numerous properties here (2 x Condos as well as a house (under a Thai name)) who could easily meet the USD500k requirements and yet she choose to pay an agent for a retirement extension.  She said it was easier and less hassle.

Did she even look at the LTR Visa or contact BOI.

 

I applied for the LTRWP visa or LTR-P, and based upon just my pension and insurance I qualified. I applied September 2nd just after the program went into play, and was approved on the 28th of September. If I had not had the pension then I would have qualified on owning my house and condo and having money in the bank. It is pretty straightforward. 

[ThailandRyan]

15 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

I understand that those applying in Bangkok don't have to go to CW ever again as its a BOI system.

 

That's gotta be a plus.

Yes never to see CW again. The visa also has a 10 year ME re-entry permit attached and you don't need to keep 800k or 400k locked in a bank here. Once a tear residence report instead of 90 days as well and you can add up to 4 dependants, so your spouse and children if you want. 50k THB is the price for the 10 year visa.

[Will B Good]

There is an LTR holder (supposedly) in our village. He claims to be a web based IT whizz kid.  

 

He lives in a wooden shed, the type lived in by the poorest of the poor, with his Thai gf and her mother.

 

Can't see him boosting Thailand's GDP anytime soon.

[Adumbration]

I wonder how long it will be before agents in Patts will be offering these visas without the farang meeting the required financial criteria.

 

If anyone knows of an agency already doing this please provide me with their details and their pricing.

[lujanit]

6 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Did she even look at the LTR Visa or contact BOI.

I advised to go to the BOI, gave her all the details yet she said she couldn't be bothered.  She said it was far easier to pay an agent.

[Adumbration]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

There is an LTR holder (supposedly) in our village. He claims to be a web based IT whizz kid.  

 

He lives in a wooden shed, the type lived in by the poorest of the poor, with his Thai gf and her mother.

 

Can't see him boosting Thailand's GDP anytime soon.

A French friend of mine used to live here in very similar circumstances.  He worked online spinning up new servers for Phillip Morris.  He was on 250K USD per year and worked from a 500 baht table and plastic chair.  Be careful of your assumptions.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, Adumbration said:

A French friend of mine used to live here in very similar circumstances.  He worked online spinning up new servers for Phillip Morris.  He was on 250K USD per year and worked from a 500 baht table and plastic chair.  Be careful of your assumptions.

Good point...well made......but just to clarify, I have met this guy a few times and he left me in doubt that he is a complete  .............!!!

[ThailandRyan]

15 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

I wonder how long it will be before agents in Patts will be offering these visas without the farang meeting the required financial criteria.

 

If anyone knows of an agency already doing this please provide me with their details and their pricing.

Not going to happen as it's being done through the BOI. The Financials are pretty rigid. There will be agents eventually but the will be like the Thai Elite Visa agents. 

 

This from another OP running regarding the LTR.

 

"The latest LTR program numbers from a BoI LTR presentation yesterday":

 

To date:

*2,120 applications

* 745 approved

* 1,168 in process

* 207 rejected (but it was noted that about half of these apparently returned for more information or translations, so not fully rejected)

 

Top 5 nationalities applying:

* USA 386

* China 247

* Russia 182

* UK 168

* Germany 121

 

Breakdown of LTR visas approved:

* Wealthy Global Citizens 41

* Wealthy Pensioners 254

* Work from Thailand Professionals 216

* Highly Skilled Professionals 75

* Dependents 159

[ThailandRyan]

16 minutes ago, lujanit said:

I advised to go to the BOI, gave her all the details yet she said she couldn't be bothered.  She said it was far easier to pay an agent.

Then she has more money than common sense it would appear, or she just doesn't care.  For the next 10 years and then 10 years after that and so on, as long as the program doesn't sunset, I am in a good position and never need to be concerned with traveling in and out and neither will my GF soon to be spouse as her visa will be like mine.

[Adumbration]

10 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Not going to happen as it's being done through the BOI. The Financials are pretty rigid. There will be agents eventually but the will be like the Thai Elite Visa agents. 

 

This from another OP running regarding the LTR.

 

"The latest LTR program numbers from a BoI LTR presentation yesterday":

 

To date:

*2,120 applications

* 745 approved

* 1,168 in process

* 207 rejected (but it was noted that about half of these apparently returned for more information or translations, so not fully rejected)

 

Top 5 nationalities applying:

* USA 386

* China 247

* Russia 182

* UK 168

* Germany 121

 

Breakdown of LTR visas approved:

* Wealthy Global Citizens 41

* Wealthy Pensioners 254

* Work from Thailand Professionals 216

* Highly Skilled Professionals 75

* Dependents 159

Oh it will happen alright.  If there is one thing you can rely wholeheartedly upon here in Thailand...it is corruption.  Already previous track record of corruption in BOI as well.  If agents are allowed into process "special fees" will follow shortly thereafter.

 

If you learn of any agents handling these visa applications please post their details.

[Boomer6969]

IMHO the Thai LTR retirement visa is beats the M2H in its new form by miles. The requirements are very reasonable targeting retired professionals, while the BOI people processing the applications focus on substance and much lesson form, unlike Thai immigration. 

[Misty]

1 hour ago, MRToMRT said:

I understand that those applying in Bangkok don't have to go to CW ever again as its a BOI system.

 

That's gotta be a plus.

Yes that is a huge plus.  BoI is professional and courtesy.  Other pluses: the 5 year x 2 = 10 year work permit it comes with.  Also the no need for 4 Thai employees per LTR work permit....

[connda]

1 hour ago, lujanit said:

I know a wealthy Yank who has purchased numerous properties here (2 x Condos as well as a house (under a Thai name)) who could easily meet the USD500k requirements and yet she choose to pay an agent for a retirement extension.  She said it was easier and less hassle.

Exactly.

[riverhigh]

Wake me up when they start talking about "Permanent Residence" for pensioners. At the end of the day it's still a visa with few rights, if any, attachrd to it. You still have to bow down to immigrtion who can terminate it on a whim's notice.

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Work-from-anywhere professionals

I do that now, no need for any additional costing visa, it costs me 1,900 baht per year to renew my annual extension.

 

I invest my own funds overseas and reap the tax free rewards, to my overseas accounts, why on earth would I want to put my money down here on owning a property, or investing in Thai bonds.

 

I built a huge house for the wife and kids for 2 million baht 7 years ago (it's theirs), if things don't work out in the future, I will look at it as such a small loss.

 

 

 

Some people can come up with crazy ideas in government positions, it just goes to show how out of touch they really are with reality in my opinion.

Edited January 14, 2023 by 4MyEgo

[Denim]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Even so, between 2002 and 2017 the program attracted an average of only 2433 approved applicants per year.

 

Proving what we already know , that there are a lot more poor people in the world than rich people.????

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

To date:

*2,120 applications

If they keep getting applications at this rate, my calculations come to under 30,000 applications lodged in 5 years, a major embarrassment to the 500,000 application they expect.

 

Wonder why ?

[Sheryl]

There are plenty of advantages to having this and if I qualified I would certainly apply.

 

Unfortunately I do not (short of investing my entire life savings in Thailand which I am not about to do). Neither do the vast majority of people. And those who do, in most instances would have no reason to want to move to Thailand unless already here. with family ties or the like.

 

Hence doomed to fail to attract any significant numbers.  They have aimed way too high in terms of financials.

 

People with say 35 - 50 k USD a year in retirement income would do plenty to boost the economy,  still having reason to come here since their standard of living would be much higher, and are not so few in number.  Retirees with 80k a year are far and few between...and can live quite comfortably in their home countries.

[Jonathan Swift]

3 hours ago, lujanit said:

I know a wealthy Yank who has purchased numerous properties here (2 x Condos as well as a house (under a Thai name)) who could easily meet the USD500k requirements and yet she choose to pay an agent for a retirement extension.  She said it was easier and less hassle.

Doing it without an agent is pretty easy once you know the ropes. I don't like the idea of placing such important matters in anyone else's hands, plus the money saved is significant, around a few hundred dollars. But that's just me and my way, not everyone has equal skills with bureaucratic systems. 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Adumbration said:

I wonder how long it will be before agents in Patts will be offering these visas without the farang meeting the required financial criteria.

 

If anyone knows of an agency already doing this please provide me with their details and their pricing.

The application process for an LTR is pretty much all done "online"....all required docs submitted to the Thailand Board of Investment (BOI) based in Bangkok vs a paper-based application to any Immigration Office.  The BOI  does do some coordination with a few other Thai agencies like immigration to insure you are not on some bad-boy list, but it's basically the BOI that approves or rejects a person's LTR application.  If approved the BOI not immigration, issues an approval letter which is like a golden ticket.

 

Then the person can take the final administrative step of paying the 10 year LTR visa fee and either having it issued at the Immigration office colocated with BOI at Chamchuri Square in Bangkok "or" by a Thai Embassy/Consulate via the online evisa system.  Currently, only the BOI Immigration Office (vs any immigration office) can issue the actual visa within Thailand.  

 

Currently there are no Certified Agents authorized by BOI....and the BOI warns of such on their LTR website. But the BOI has issued a formal request for interested parties to become Certified Agents...that request closes 31 Jan 2023.  Then the BOI will evaluate and hopefully approve some Certified Agents which will basically be under contract to the Thai govt to assist applicants (for a fee) in applying to BOI for an LTR visa.

 

There are already a few visa agencies who offer LTR visa assistance but none of them are authorized by the BOI...and even with  visa agency assistance the individual will still be the one required to provide income proof,  insurance proof, etc.  All any visa agency will be able to do is hand-walk a person thru submitting the required docs online.

 

 

[Jonathan Swift]

24 minutes ago, Denim said:

Proving what we already know , that there are a lot more poor people in the world than rich people.????

Rich people tend to be notoriously stingy and tight with their wealth, so does it make more sense to get $10 from each lower income person or try to get $100 from each wealthy person, if there are 10,000 low income people for every single wealthy person? I'm just making up numbers for the sake of illustration. By low income I mean anyone who's not rich. This is basic common business sense across the board, but these people seem to just endlessly speculate without being connected to the real world or knowing much about human behavior and the cultures whose money they seek. 

[Wombo1]

I applied as I met all the conditions for work from Thailand professional.... But I was rejected.

 

Essentially I work for a large multinational (top 100 Japanese companies). I am legally employed by our small Singapore entity in a global role.

I was rejected as they only look at the direct revenue of the entity you work for... Not the total global business.

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

I understand that those applying in Bangkok don't have to go to CW ever again as its a BOI system.

 

That's gotta be a plus.

BOI is located on the 18th floor of the Chumchuri Square Bldg. Across the hall from Immigration. Check in with BOI and an agent will escort you to necessary Immigration stations, one if which is dedicated solely to LTR Visas.

First floor is Starbucks and several banks/ATMs.

Square lies at the Sam Yan MRT station.

Got my LTR Visa in November 2022 and must report in person for residence November 2023.

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand’s Board of Investment reckons the LTR program will attract wealthy, ‘high-potential’ and talented individuals, who in turn will stimulate economic growth, through innovation, investment and domestic spending. Thailand’s government has set a target of attracting one million foreigners into the program over the next five years.

Dreamers...

[Jackbenimble]

The idea itself is a great idea but..........the financial constraints they've attached to it make it unworkable. 

I can only assume the government have taken the position that Thailand is a 1st World country and that the desire to be here is such that foreigners will pay whatever is necessary in order to live here.

Unfortunately that isn't the case.

A rethink will make this a very viable option but as it is it wont wash. 

[brucegoniners]

What are they smoking when they come up with these proposals?

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

and you don't need to keep 800k or 400k locked in a bank here.

"...you don't need to keep [THB]800k or 400k locked in a bank..."

It's not as though there are no financial requirements, applicants have to keep USD500k here in property or government bonds instead of less than USD25k!

Edited January 14, 2023 by Liverpool Lou