Should tell him? Or not?

[Harveyboy]

10 minutes ago, Harveyboy said:

hey Lou why the laughing face you on the grog again ..or perhaps it's the difficulty in understanding English ...I can always put it in capital letters in Crayon if you want 

my post was a reply in which you answered .it said never marry a thai with sons as they are trouble or something to that effect..my post was directed to this 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Harveyboy

[Harveyboy]

13 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You need to read the comment to which I responded properly,  I made no reference to my having "a bad experience".

sorry old pal this isn't the one I tried to reply to it was an op saying never marry a Thai who has a son that they are trouble..seems we had crossed lines.. ain't got no crayons anyway   ha have a good day H 

[bbbbooboo]

hmmmm... just let it happen. Its what they both want?

[473geo]

If a person stays in a relationship long enough to build a house, surely they most be getting some pleasures from their experience

So it goes wrong later, hard to believe it was wrong from day one 

Why can't these guys that failed be more honest and say they actually had a great time, until it wasn't and they moved on 

 

[4MyEgo]

5 hours ago, Goat said:

says the guy who married a bar girl.

Irony.

Happily married to a "bar girl", or is it the person who was working as a "bar girl", no irony there, but I won't try and explain the happiness, that I and other farangs who married "bar girls" have received.

 

Others falling by the way side, why, because they don't know women, or how to handle their finances, that applies to all guys with all women, not just "bar girls".

 

5 hours ago, Goat said:

something tells me you live in a small Issan village. Perhaps the only foreigner there, can not converse with the local population and as a result are quite socially isolated, probably have a bee in your bonnet about 'Thai men" who largely ignore you/dont include you, apart from your wife's relatives who drag you along to pay for everything?

Maybe not.

Actually, we do live in a good size isaan village, and there are other farangs who do live here and we do socialise at the local waterhole, not to far away, kind of a community club, Thai's mostly younger guys do converse and we all get along fine.

 

No bee under my bonnet about Thai men, they don't ignore me, they respect me, and like to know a lot about me, and where I come from and how life is on the other side, always have time for them, so you are very wrong about me and my very happy life here in the land of smiles.

 

Wife's relatives dragging me along to pay for everything, over my wife's and my body....LOL.

 

My wife spent a decade back in my country, she understands a lot more than most Thai women, and her family who live close by have never put their hands out or requested or expected money or anything else from me, they are happy that she ended up with a great and respectful guy, who causes them no problem and looks after their daughter, what else could they want...LOL

 

5 hours ago, Goat said:

This is what i will be warning our 'freind' about. 

 

Anyway, best of luck with it all.

You contradict yourself, you said he wasn't a friend, but you do business with him.

 

I don't need your luck, why because I know women and control my own finances and destiny, and am happily married to a "bar girl" who runs rings around ALL the western women I dated in my life time.

 

Sounds like to me that you need all the luck Chump.

[4MyEgo]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What's wrong with an electrical engineer? Try living in a world without them!

You sound like you went to uni and think tradespeople are inferior beings.

Nope, Electrical Engineers have no clue when it comes to women, that's all, e.g. not street wise, especially when it comes to "bar girls".

 

Don't take it personal, I did go to Uni, and I did receive two degree's, back to back, and have respect for tradies, well the good ones that is, and of course I don't see them as being inferior, actually I don't see anyone as being inferior, we are all born equal.

Edited February 8, 2023 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, Harveyboy said:

sorry but I think from a lot of my mates experience Goat is mostly right on this one ..I'm not a Thai basher..I have a Thai wife ..but have seena lot of my mates get scammed and F over by these girls ..just stating a point H

No need to be sorry for disagreeing, I have no idea if Goat is right or wrong, I don't know the girl, and I don't know the guy, I am not disagreeing with Goat either, this intending marriage sounds like it will go south for reasons I stated in my 1st reply to Goat.

 

The above said, there are also lots of married guys to "bar girls" who are happy as can be, in my opinion, the ones who hand over their money because they love the girl, are the ones who lose all the time, you can work the rest out.

 

All relationships need attention, effort also has to be put in from both sides, sorting cultural differences, understanding, etc, judging a book by it's cover isn't the way to go, knowing the character of the person your going to spend the rest of your life with is a must, and people change, hence the reason ones finances must remain separate, in other words, why on earth men hand over their money is beyond me, things don't always last forever, so if one invested heavily, e.g. all in, then they walk away with very little if anything, suffice to say, if one invested say between 10% and 20% they walk away with 80% to 90%, now that sounds much better to me and if the women, "bar girl" or other is needy or wants more, then show her the door as these are early warning signs, on the other hand, is she is content and knows your doing the right thing and have her interests at heart and you also have a will in place, a life insurance policy, and your taking care of "her" i.e. a better quality life than she had and she is looking after you and your interests, then all and good.

 

I could paint ALL women with the same brush, but I won't, if men just kept their finances separate i.e. had balls and understood what's at stake if things went pair shape, it saves a lot of future problems for them because once they are older, it gets harder to recoup the loss.

 

That's all.

 

I did suggest to Goat to warn his friend, but I also read in another post reply from him to someone else that he wasn't a friend but did business with him and didn't want to go to the weeding, so I believe it's a troll, or is about him.

[Robin]

it is (presumably) his money he is spending, and his life.  So he can do what he wants.  Ever thought that he might be enjoying what he is doing?

Possibly make sure he knows the law, and reality about owning property in Thailand.  i.e. You cannot and the house will always be his wife's.  Any money he puts into that stays with her

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/8/2023 at 6:39 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

Quite right, but, then, my comment was not referring to relationships!   Rationality should have a huge bearing on what is posted in a forum for rational discussion.

LOL. Reading some threads on this forum I doubt that rationality enters into it.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/8/2023 at 11:16 PM, 4MyEgo said:

Nope, Electrical Engineers have no clue when it comes to women, that's all, e.g. not street wise, especially when it comes to "bar girls".

Are you for real? IMO no guy has a clue when it comes to women, but some fool themselves they do.

Going to uni does not make any guy an expert on women, even if they are all randy as hamsters while they are there. They'll use guys and leave them bereft whether uni educated or not.

 

For example, the way attractive women go for bad men- completely illogical, as they could marry a nice guy that will look after them, but no, they throw themselves at rat bags and then complain when it inevitably goes wrong. There's no rationality to it at all.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/8/2023 at 11:13 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I don't need your luck, why because I know women

Enjoy your illusions while they last.

[4MyEgo]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you for real? IMO no guy has a clue when it comes to women, but some fool themselves they do.

Going to uni does not make any guy an expert on women, even if they are all randy as hamsters while they are there. They'll use guys and leave them bereft whether uni educated or not.

I never suggested going to Uni or having a decree makes a guy an expert on women, I said being street wise helps, in other words, being out and dating women, understanding how they tick, instead of looking at their exterior (weapon) which blinds most men, e.g. tits, rear ends etc.

 

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

For example, the way attractive women go for bad men- completely illogical, as they could marry a nice guy that will look after them, but no, they throw themselves at rat bags and then complain when it inevitably goes wrong. There's no rationality to it at all.

It's not about women going for bad men, it's all about them wanting a guy who can keep them interested, they don't want Hollywood, soft c's. I have never been a romantic, and I never tell a woman I love here over and over again, I do let her know that she is replaceable.

 

Ever heard the saying, treat them mean, keep them lean ? Well there is truth to that, not saying that you treat them like <deleted>, but I have found that if you hold onto the control vs giving it to them, it's like you saying to a child here, you take over, drive the car, I guarantee you it won't be long before the child crashes the car.

 

In other words, from my experience in life with women, they want someone that can lead them, and keep them in place, now defining that is not something you can teach someone, that said, try showing them little interest, or looking at other women when out with them, or even saying something about the other women, like who, she's pretty and watch their reaction vs being the romantic, no doubt they would like the romance in the beginning, but will eventually become bored. What I am saying is they would more than likely prefer the club from the caveman, women see love differently to the way we do.

 

Before you jump the gun, I am not saying you treat women disrespectfully or beat them, you just let them know that you come before them and that they are not the all being of life to you.

 

Works for me, every single time and I have landed some real stunners over the years and have escaped a lot of brain damage and financial losses, suffice to say it's all about controlling the heart and you money vs handing them both over for their exterior looks.

 

You have to look deep within the creature and understand what they are saying, women are planners, men are lookers.

[4MyEgo]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Enjoy your illusions while they last.

Your a funny guy, unfortunately another one who has been badly burnt by women, why, because you have never understood them and known how to handle the beasts.

 

No doubt you will come back and have another go at me because you won't want to admit it on a public forum.

 

Your probably single and broke now as well and still blame them all for your misfortunes in life.

 

I'm not having a go at you, just stating what I am reading about you.

 

Illusions, I like that, have a good day.

Edited February 9, 2023 by 4MyEgo

[save the frogs]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:58 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Sounds like a troll to me.

yeah, sounds to me like he's trolling.

describes the "friend" from UK as overweight ... ha ha. 

but he did manage to get a lot of emotional responses, so that's good. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by save the frogs

[n00dle]

On 2/6/2023 at 8:56 PM, 4MyEgo said:

the tattoos, just tells me she is, or should be street wise.

maybe in 1970, but the world has moved on. 

[BritManToo]

On 2/10/2023 at 6:27 AM, 4MyEgo said:

because you have never understood them and known how to handle the beasts.

You missed out an 'r' from your last word.

[BritManToo]

On 2/10/2023 at 6:00 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

For example, the way attractive women go for bad men- completely illogical, as they could marry a nice guy that will look after them, but no, they throw themselves at rat bags and then complain when it inevitably goes wrong. There's no rationality to it at all.

It's biological programming, pure and simple. In the 'good old days' the most violent men were the best hunters and providers, and that's who they are programmed to want. Yeah, you might take a few licks from the guy when he's in a bad mood, but at least you and your kids get to eat every day.

 

The guys that 'love and honour' all women get nothing, but like all wokes double down and still get nothing.

 

The average number of sexual partners for men in their lifetime in the west is FOUR!

Most of us have managed that (or more) in a week in Thailand.

Edited February 13, 2023 by BritManToo

[Captain Monday]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

It's biological programming, pure and simple. In the 'good old days' the most violent men were the best hunters and providers, and that's who they are programmed to want. Yeah, you might take a few licks from the guy when he's in a bad mood, but at least you and your kids get to eat every day.

 

The guys that 'love and honour' all women get nothing, but like all wokes double down and still get nothing.

 

The average number of sexual partners for men in their lifetime in the west is FOUR!

Most of us have managed that (or more) in a week in Thailand.

Not sure why I liked your post seems like many of the star athletes/violent bullies peak in  High school.  The hot chicks they pulled then are are as big as a house now and divorced cat ladies.

 

The smart gals with good careers are married to some loser they can control, or could never find anybody.  As for one guy I know who makes 400k USD plus per year now he married a college sweetheart.

 

Apart from some snogging in the dorms his body count ONE.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Captain Monday

[Harveyboy]

On 2/8/2023 at 5:30 PM, 4MyEgo said:

No need to be sorry for disagreeing, I have no idea if Goat is right or wrong, I don't know the girl, and I don't know the guy, I am not disagreeing with Goat either, this intending marriage sounds like it will go south for reasons I stated in my 1st reply to Goat.

 

The above said, there are also lots of married guys to "bar girls" who are happy as can be, in my opinion, the ones who hand over their money because they love the girl, are the ones who lose all the time, you can work the rest out.

 

All relationships need attention, effort also has to be put in from both sides, sorting cultural differences, understanding, etc, judging a book by it's cover isn't the way to go, knowing the character of the person your going to spend the rest of your life with is a must, and people change, hence the reason ones finances must remain separate, in other words, why on earth men hand over their money is beyond me, things don't always last forever, so if one invested heavily, e.g. all in, then they walk away with very little if anything, suffice to say, if one invested say between 10% and 20% they walk away with 80% to 90%, now that sounds much better to me and if the women, "bar girl" or other is needy or wants more, then show her the door as these are early warning signs, on the other hand, is she is content and knows your doing the right thing and have her interests at heart and you also have a will in place, a life insurance policy, and your taking care of "her" i.e. a better quality life than she had and she is looking after you and your interests, then all and good.

 

I could paint ALL women with the same brush, but I won't, if men just kept their finances separate i.e. had balls and understood what's at stake if things went pair shape, it saves a lot of future problems for them because once they are older, it gets harder to recoup the loss.

 

That's all.

 

I did suggest to Goat to warn his friend, but I also read in another post reply from him to someone else that he wasn't a friend but did business with him and didn't want to go to the weeding, so I believe it's a troll, or is about him.

Ok mate tks for the reply  H

[Harveyboy]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

It's biological programming, pure and simple. In the 'good old days' the most violent men were the best hunters and providers, and that's who they are programmed to want. Yeah, you might take a few licks from the guy when he's in a bad mood, but at least you and your kids get to eat every day.

 

The guys that 'love and honour' all women get nothing, but like all wokes double down and still get nothing.

 

The average number of sexual partners for men in their lifetime in the west is FOUR!

Most of us have managed that (or more) in a week in Thailand.

Or even a weekend ..when the pound was strong eh ..ha

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/10/2023 at 12:23 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I never suggested going to Uni or having a decree makes a guy an expert on women, I said being street wise helps, in other words, being out and dating women, understanding how they tick, instead of looking at their exterior (weapon) which blinds most men, e.g. tits, rear ends etc.

 

It's not about women going for bad men, it's all about them wanting a guy who can keep them interested, they don't want Hollywood, soft c's. I have never been a romantic, and I never tell a woman I love here over and over again, I do let her know that she is replaceable.

 

Ever heard the saying, treat them mean, keep them lean ? Well there is truth to that, not saying that you treat them like <deleted>, but I have found that if you hold onto the control vs giving it to them, it's like you saying to a child here, you take over, drive the car, I guarantee you it won't be long before the child crashes the car.

 

In other words, from my experience in life with women, they want someone that can lead them, and keep them in place, now defining that is not something you can teach someone, that said, try showing them little interest, or looking at other women when out with them, or even saying something about the other women, like who, she's pretty and watch their reaction vs being the romantic, no doubt they would like the romance in the beginning, but will eventually become bored. What I am saying is they would more than likely prefer the club from the caveman, women see love differently to the way we do.

 

Before you jump the gun, I am not saying you treat women disrespectfully or beat them, you just let them know that you come before them and that they are not the all being of life to you.

 

Works for me, every single time and I have landed some real stunners over the years and have escaped a lot of brain damage and financial losses, suffice to say it's all about controlling the heart and you money vs handing them both over for their exterior looks.

 

You have to look deep within the creature and understand what they are saying, women are planners, men are lookers.

You like to play games with women, I don't.

I never had any interest in playing that sort of game, and either a woman liked me for myself or they didn't.

Every western woman I knew was only out for herself, so I gave up on them.

I blame western culture and anti male indoctrination, but that's the way it is, so bar girls were the way to go, and Thailand was the place to go to for that. Only went wrong because I thought Thai women were different and married one- they ain't.

Some guys will get lucky and find a jewel among the dross, but I was never that lucky.

 

I guess I took the black pill.

Edited February 13, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/8/2023 at 7:15 PM, 473geo said:

If a person stays in a relationship long enough to build a house, surely they most be getting some pleasures from their experience

So it goes wrong later, hard to believe it was wrong from day one 

Why can't these guys that failed be more honest and say they actually had a great time, until it wasn't and they moved on 

 

I always said that.

My marriage was the best thing that ever happened to me till it wasn't.

I used to wonder why my mother married my step father, but when I saw her photos after she died I saw that they had a good time together, till they didn't.

I used to think my father treated my mother badly and wondered why she stayed with him, but after she died a letter she left showed me that he gave her what she had dreamed of all her young life, till he didn't.

 

No sane person gets married if they don't enjoy being with the person they married. It just doesn't always last.

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You like to play games with women, I don't.

I never had any interest in playing that sort of game, and either a woman liked me for myself or they didn't.

I wouldn't call it games, I would say it's more like studying and researching what I am getting into.

 

Women will like a guy for his exterior, but like I said before, they are planners, e.g. guys, well most, don't give a rats what a girl has got financially, whereas the girls, mostly, will be wanting to know what the guy has, as for liking you for who you are, well, ah, good luck with that, i.e. unless you have some finances, or coming into some or your well hung, and yes it does help if your both.

 

 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Every western woman I knew was only out for herself, so I gave up on them.

I blame western culture and anti male indoctrination, but that's the way it is,

It's not just western woman, it's the breed.

 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Only went wrong because I thought Thai women were different and married one- they ain't.

It's not about the race, again, it's about the breed, and understanding the individual and of course your own character, i.e. if you don't understand what your dealing with and how to handle it, then you lose, yes, call it a game, a real live one, knowing how to play is key. 50% of marriages fail, i.e. if not higher, will mine last past 16 years, I think so, however, if it fails, then it wasn't because I didn't play the game right, it's because the other side changed, but if walking away with 80%-90% of my finances is considered a loss, then I wasn't playing the game right, suffice to say, finances are part of the game, e.g. you walk away with 80%-90%, now that's a win, heart will mend, but losing your finances, wow, that will not, especially when your older.

 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Some guys will get lucky and find a jewel among the dross, but I was never that lucky.

It's not about luck, it's not about playing a lottery, it's as I said above, but if you want to call it luck, up to you, I don't consider myself lucky, albeit they broke the mold when they made this one, that said, it's knowing what I was dealing with and keeping my finances separate, to me finances are the total power/control of the game.

 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I guess I took the black pill.

I think you just made a bad decision, happens to the best of us, been there, done that many decades ago, but I learned how to play this game of love, and it's worked ever since, for how long, well I can't look to far into the future, but as long as I am in control of my finances/assets, and things went south, I win, but will have a broken heart, which will mend while I sort my self out with, y finances which would help me, as opposed to being in the street struggling.

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You like to play games with women, I don't.

I never had any interest in playing that sort of game, and either a woman liked me for myself or they didn't.

Me neither,

Either a woman wanted the money I was offering, or she didn't.

If I'd waited for a woman that 'liked me for myself', I'd still be waiting.

Edited February 14, 2023 by BritManToo

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I wouldn't call it games, I would say it's more like studying and researching what I am getting into.

 

Women will like a guy for his exterior, but like I said before, they are planners, e.g. guys, well most, don't give a rats what a girl has got financially, whereas the girls, mostly, will be wanting to know what the guy has, as for liking you for who you are, well, ah, good luck with that, i.e. unless you have some finances, or coming into some or your well hung, and yes it does help if your both.

 

 

It's not just western woman, it's the breed.

 

It's not about the race, again, it's about the breed, and understanding the individual and of course your own character, i.e. if you don't understand what your dealing with and how to handle it, then you lose, yes, call it a game, a real live one, knowing how to play is key. 50% of marriages fail, i.e. if not higher, will mine last past 16 years, I think so, however, if it fails, then it wasn't because I didn't play the game right, it's because the other side changed, but if walking away with 80%-90% of my finances is considered a loss, then I wasn't playing the game right, suffice to say, finances are part of the game, e.g. you walk away with 80%-90%, now that's a win, heart will mend, but losing your finances, wow, that will not, especially when your older.

 

It's not about luck, it's not about playing a lottery, it's as I said above, but if you want to call it luck, up to you, I don't consider myself lucky, albeit they broke the mold when they made this one, that said, it's knowing what I was dealing with and keeping my finances separate, to me finances are the total power/control of the game.

 

I think you just made a bad decision, happens to the best of us, been there, done that many decades ago, but I learned how to play this game of love, and it's worked ever since, for how long, well I can't look to far into the future, but as long as I am in control of my finances/assets, and things went south, I win, but will have a broken heart, which will mend while I sort my self out with, y finances which would help me, as opposed to being in the street struggling.

Obviously I don't know you so can only go by what you write, but IMO you play with shallow women that go for glister and not for substance. The real question is "are there any women out there that go for substance over glister that I'd want to know"?

I'm sure there are, and I worked with a couple in my life, but both married already when I met them. IMO the good ones get snapped up by good guys early on, and the ones left are in it for the goodies.

Even the "jewel" I helped out after her divorce from an unsuitable man ( he only married her because she wan a local beauty competition, so attractive ) turned out to be a pig in the end.

 

The problem is that even the small insight we men can get into the psychology of women takes many years and many bad experiences to acquire. We can read books ( men are from Mars etc was good as far as it went ), but we never know what any women will be like a year or 10 from when we meet them.

Eg, taking a jewel Thai woman to live in woke western country likely turns her woke.

I thought my wife was a jewel when I married her, but she changed- why I'll never know for sure because she refused to discuss the problem.

 

I disagree with your opinion that men can understand women, fundamentally. IMO men will never understand them and the best we can do is to bribe them to hang around as long as possible.

 

 

I'll leave you with wise words from someone that's been there

 

Secret Garden by the Boss ( Springsteen )

 

She'll let you in her house
If you come knockin' late at night
She'll let you in her mouth
If the words you say are right

If you pay the price
She'll let you deep inside
But there's a secret garden she hides

She'll let you in her car
To go drivin' round
She'll let you into the parts of herself
That'll bring you down

She'll let you in herheart
If you got a hammer and a vise
But into her secret garden, don't think twice

You've gone a million miles
How far'd you get
To that place where You can't remember
And you can't forget

She'll lead you down a path
There'll be tenderness in the air
She'll let you come just far enough
So you know she's really there
She'll look at you and smile
And her eyes will say
She's got a secret garden
Where everything you want
Where everything you need
Will always stay
A million miles away

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Me neither,

Either a woman wanted the money I was offering, or she didn't.

If I'd waited for a woman that 'liked me for myself', I'd still be waiting.

LOL. Not having money enough to offer ( if I did I'd never have left Thailand ), I can't bribe a woman to be with me and I'm still waiting for one that likes me enough for myself. I guess I'll never be waking up with one in what remains of this life.

 

Hurrah for the internet.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

The smart gals with good careers are married to some loser they can control, or could never find anybody.  As for one guy I know who makes 400k USD plus per year now he married a college sweetheart.

 

Apart from some snogging in the dorms his body count ONE.

He'd better keep making the loot or have some good investments for when he doesn't, or IMO he'll be joining us single sad sacks when it runs out.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

It's not about luck, it's not about playing a lottery, it's as I said above, but if you want to call it luck, up to you,

I'll give you a real example as why I say men will never understand women.

Intelligent western woman I know married a really nice man of her own age with a good job, I liked him personally. She actually pursued him to get him interested. A few years later, she up and left him because he was "boring". Not because he was bad to her or became penniless. 

Then she married a man she met after she left first husband. Not only did I not like him, as he was a wide boy in a nice suit ( I saw through him straight away ), but he lived off her, took her for everything he could and in the end even she came to her senses and left him.

Nothing about that could be "learned", she wasn't stupid, but left a good man for a ratbag, and it ended up badly for her.

The only character in that story that I sympathize with is her first husband, a good guy that got fooled.

Like I say, no man will ever understand a woman, though they may think they do.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/8/2023 at 11:13 PM, 4MyEgo said:

Others falling by the way side, why, because they don't know women,

You make them sound like dogs, or other domesticated animals  that can be controlled. IMO if we are comparing them to animals it would be cats, which can't be controlled, though they will hang around if they get fed and have a nice place to live in.

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The only character in that story that I sympathize with is her first husband, a good guy that got fooled.

No woman wants a 'good guy' when she can get 'a real piece of work'.

 

If you want women you have two choices.

1. Become a violent thug (they like them).

2. Earn enough money to pay them (they also like money).

Edited February 14, 2023 by BritManToo