Saying the quiet part out loud -- would success of the Move Forward Party agenda spell the end of the Golden Age for expats in Thailand?

[Will B Good]

2 hours ago, Will B Good said:

55555

Whoops...soz

[proton]

45 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

My mate got his annual Non-IMM O extension (finances facilitated by the Agent) at Jomtien last week. 
 

I was surprised not that he got it, but by the fact they were able to do it 90 days before it was due (normally 45 at Jomtien). 
 

Cost was 12,500b same as last year. 

Without the funds in the bank?

[Mike Teavee]

35 minutes ago, proton said:

Without the funds in the bank?

Yes
 

Agent doesn’t seem interested in doing it on a xfer >65K per month basis so it’s either you have the money in the bank (8,000b) or you don’t (12,500b). 
 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[Hugh Jarse]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Again look at this from an International perspective.

As a generality when countries get more successful they tend to raise the bar for retired expats if they have such programs at all.

Try retiring in Singapore.

As mentioned the requirements for Malaysia were massively increased resulting in a huge exodus and almost no new applications.

Malaysia does have a budget loophole in Sarawak.

News is the Philippines will soon kill their famous three years before a visa run scheme and change to 90 days. That will cause a mass exodus. There are examples like this globally.

The USA and uk are just 2 examples of countries losing their grip on immigration. Thailand has a fairly firm grip(except For Myanmar) on immigration. Thailand will still want those with sufficient money to stay longer term, particularly those who are educating their children here, employing local people and patronizing the private health care systems. Maybe

it will be very different for the low Enders with modest incomes.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Jarse said:

The USA and uk are just 2 examples of countries losing their grip on immigration. Thailand has a fairly firm grip(except For Myanmar) on immigration. Thailand will still want those with sufficient money to stay longer term, particularly those who are educating their children here, employing local people and patronizing the private health care systems. Maybe

it will be very different for the low Enders with modest incomes.

No retirement visa in either.

[Gecko123]

Not sure where the anti-foreigner fears are originating from.

 

Pita appears to be a technocrat, has been drumming up support on Western media, has moved towards more independence from China, is Western educated and recognizes the importance of educational reform, etc. All very progressive and positive moves.

 

If he is able to move Thailand forward educationally and economically he has my full support. If a by-product of his efforts is an increase in national pride and a marginalization of foreigners who use Thailand as a low-budget hedonistic playground, that's an added plus in my book.

 

With so much economic and educational ground to be made up, and so much of Thailand's future hanging in the balance, fretting about possible impacts to the ex-pat community gets a resounding pfffft from me.

 

Finally, I would add that worrying about the potential impact of the new government on the expat lifestyle when viewed against the backdrop of the US (and global) fiscal debt crisis and likely devaluation of the US dollar is a bit like worrying about the deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Gecko123

[Bday Prang]

4 hours ago, Dan O said:

You apparently didn't understand what I wrote, so you can read it again. I have no western agenda, just common sense from being here and seeing and living with the truth of thailand 

 

Your statements are canned comments typical of people that like to feel entitled while stayimg in another country. 

 

We will have to disagree andd that's OK. 

 

Have a great day

I read your post again and I'm pretty sure I got your drift correctly the first time.

I don't feel "entitled" at  all . I like this place the way it is,   any "canned comments" I made were  only intended to reflect that.

I don't feel required to agree with anybody but I am prepared to agree to disagree

I wish you no harm, but i really don't care if you have a great day or not to be honest

[soi3eddie]

3 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

My mate got his annual Non-IMM O extension (finances facilitated by the Agent) at Jomtien last week. 
 

I was surprised not that he got it, but by the fact they were able to do it 90 days before it was due (normally 45 at Jomtien). 
 

Cost was 12,500b same as last year. 

That is good to hear, however two Pattaya/Jomtien agents have separately told us that they can't help. Must have own money in bank to meet requirements. Last time the agent handled everything for the one year non-o first time. This year is extension. They cited the crackdown on visas for the Chinese as reason for this. Maybe things will ease up and our agent can help. Have now put money in own bank just to be safe anyway. Current extension expires end of August so there is time to season the funds.

 

[Kwasaki]

33 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

That is good to hear, however two Pattaya/Jomtien agents have separately told us that they can't help. Must have own money in bank to meet requirements. Last time the agent handled everything for the one year non-o first time. This year is extension. They cited the crackdown on visas for the Chinese as reason for this. Maybe things will ease up and our agent can help. Have now put money in own bank just to be safe anyway. Current extension expires end of August so there is time to season the funds.

 

To stay in Thailand you should have the money to do so.

[chalawaan]

16 hours ago, it is what it is said:

 

bigger fish to fry for sure, but tightened, enforced rules for expats would get my vote, too many expats flout rules to be here and this reflects badly on the rest of us.

Sentiment is in the right place, but think it through.

 

Why should all of us be subject to whatever fresh hell you might have in mind, just because a few expat idiots will always be idiots?

 

It's already authoritarian enough here just keeping to myself and doing the right thing!

 

The aggravating and endless limbo of annual extensions needs to end for married individuals Elite visa holders, work permit holders, business owners, corporate employees,  and retirees. Just why?

 

If they must, how about every five years, or upon passport renewal, they could even 5x the fee, it would be a huge improvement for us, and reduce their workload. 

 

All transgressors can already be dealt with by existing laws, so what do you think needs to be added here?

 

How about Interpol and all nations banning repeat felons from travelling anywhere at all? Now we're getting onto something.  

 

I'm amazed this did not happen worldwide years ago, and I'm all for it, two strikes and you're grounded for life.

 

But everyone other than career crims deserve one second chance.  Fair enough? 

 

Law abiding expats don't need even more laws! Especially given the vague, prejudicial  and draconian way justice is served in this country. Half your prison time off for pleading guilty? Would you want that for yourself if you were framed?

 

Isn't enforced 90 days reporting enough? Criminals just ignore it anyway!

 

What do you have in mind that would make overstayers think twice, and what existing rules do you see that need tightening? 

 

And no, harsher punishments are not a deterrent. But they do get scum off the streets for longer. But it's also open to abuse by dictatorships.  

 

But this is about overstayers, who already get deported, so what more do you propose?

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, soi3eddie said:

That is good to hear, however two Pattaya/Jomtien agents have separately told us that they can't help. Must have own money in bank to meet requirements. Last time the agent handled everything for the one year non-o first time. This year is extension. They cited the crackdown on visas for the Chinese as reason for this. Maybe things will ease up and our agent can help. Have now put money in own bank just to be safe anyway. Current extension expires end of August so there is time to season the funds.

 

Wow, that’s interesting to learn as obviously the Agent helping with finances has been the way people have been living here for decades so it would be a massive shock if they really did clamp down on it.
 

My mate did his Non-IMM O conversion with them last May & when he went in for them to do his latest 90 day report was told he could do his Extension 90 days early so he did it last Tuesday (23rd May). 
 

Again he doesn’t meet the 800K in the bank criteria

[soalbundy]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not suggesting a total purge, but I am suggesting a significant weeding out. We're not allowed to live here because of our pleasant smell. Obviously high value / special skills foreigners will alway be welcome. 

They already have many international companies since at least 2 decades producing in Thailand, doesn't seem to have taken them to the first world level. You live in Bangkok, that's almost a Thai enclave in a country called Thailand. Thailand is still basically rural and although even Isaan has improved by leaps and bounds from what it was 20 years ago but it is still rural, government offices lose almost half their staff in the harvest season where I am,  at the IO you can chat with the officers about the cost of hiring a combine harvester or the lousy price the government is paying for rice.

 

MFP isn't a new word for magic, they, like all other parties, are going to have to compromise to different group interests, coalition partners, the establishment (they have already backed off from meddling with the lese majesty laws) and traditional beliefs. What government in the world keeps to its manifesto promises? Opposition is easy, governing not so much. Give Pita a year and he will be just another Thai PM struggling to keep the status quo with a few tweaks here and there.

As Mark Twain once said, "If voting made any difference they wouldn't allow it"

[chalawaan]

59 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

To stay in Thailand you should have the money to do so.

In that case, no one should be allowed in without insurance no exceptions. 

 

Yet every second man and his dog here considers it a rip off! 

 

Other than that, if someone is law abiding their net wealth is immaterial. 

[peter zwart]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Higher level" countries don't rely on tourism as much

Their GDP is not for 22% relying on tourism.

[chalawaan]

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Thailand is actually highly conservative, although tolerant. Getting gay marriage legally recognized is on a par with legalizing prostitution, no offense meant by the comparison.

My GF is quite a safe driver, only because I have superimposed my own defensive driving training on the pitiful standard of Thai instruction. Perhaps you might consider doing the same with your BF.

I self deleted the first response because it went way off topic and onto road habits. 

I hope the MFP make a difference, but I doubt anything will truly change here without a full blown civil conflict, and those usually don't end well for anyone but the guy who replaces the old guard. 

Countless recent examples in our lifetimes, apart from the peaceful fall of the USSR, which was great for the occupied nations, but hasn't helped Russia lately. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by chalawaan
Topic drift.

[Dan O]

3 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

I read your post again and I'm pretty sure I got your drift correctly the first time.

I don't feel "entitled" at  all . I like this place the way it is,   any "canned comments" I made were  only intended to reflect that.

I don't feel required to agree with anybody but I am prepared to agree to disagree

I wish you no harm, but i really don't care if you have a great day or not to be hones

Sorry that you could not understand my post but it was to the OP not you.

 

  It's fine to disagree. I see by your last sentence the type of person you are so feel free to pass by my posts.  I was only being  courteous but also couldnt care one way or the other if you agree with me or not. 

[Bday Prang]

24 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Sorry that you could not understand my post but it was to the OP not you.

 

  It's fine to disagree. I see by your last sentence the type of person you are so feel free to pass by my posts.  I was only being  courteous but also couldnt care one way or the other if you agree with me or not. 

And what exactly can you tell from my last sentence ?    Perhaps  Sherlock Holmes might have deduced that:  I am a straight talking, no nonsense sort of a guy , from the Northwest of the UK, who, consequently does not waste time uttering totally hollow and insincere "Americanisms"   like   "have a nice day"   to people he does not know.  especially somebody who accused me of being "entitled" and of using "canned comments"

           I would not expect you to care whether I agree with you or not neither would I expect you to care whether I have a nice day or a terrible day

Edited May 27, 2023 by Bday Prang

[save the frogs]

18 hours ago, chalawaan said:

Malaysian "MM2H" retirement visa was always very pricey by comparison, and was recently massively increased, it's upper middle class territory (surgeons, judges, etc) 

One article I read claims Malaysia will be classified as a 1st world ie developed country by 2030. 

The retirement visa seems to coincide with this. 

[Dan O]

2 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

And what exactly can you tell from my last sentence ?    Perhaps  Sherlock Holmes might have deduced that:  I am a straight talking, no nonsense sort of a guy , from the Northwest of the UK, who, consequently does not waste time uttering totally hollow and insincere "Americanisms"   like   "have a nice day"   to people he does not know.  especially somebody who accused me of being "entitled" and of using "canned comments"

           I would not expect you to care whether I agree with you or not neither would I expect you to care whether I have a nice day or a terrible day

Straight talking no nosense guy that can't take someone being honest and straight back to you.   You can move on now as I am 

[BangkokReady]

I think the question itself is getting a little ahead of things.

 

We don't even know if Pita will be made PM yet, and, if he is allowed, we don't know if he will actually be able to make any meaningful changes in Thailand.  He may only be allowed to be PM if he agrees to certain "conditions".

 

Assuming he is allowed to be PM, and assuming he is then allowed to make significant changes, then we can think about answering your questions.

 

I suppose education, law and order and economics are the things that would lead to the kind of changes that might affect expats, this modernisation of Thailand.  I think, as others have said, these things are pretty firmly set within the culture of Thailand.  Many people complain about them as if they exist in complete isolation and are not a reflection of the culture and attitudes of the Thai nation as a whole, but I don't believe this to be the case.

 

If there were changes made to these areas, I think they are the kind of changes that would likely take decades to achieve.  not impossible, but very slow changes a little at a time.

 

I suppose the two main things that would affect expats would be related to the economy.  One in that costs would increase to a level where expats could no longer afford to live in Thailand, which is possible and fairly simple, but, again, this would likely take decades.  The other thing is that Thailand would no longer offer the same kinds of visas to foreigners.  This again could happen, but isn't it likely that if the country develops to levels closer to developed countries, they would then offer more options when it came to citizenship?  Work in Thailand or live with your spouse for 3-5 years then easily get permanent residency which then leads to citizenship?

 

One thing that you might not have considered when it comes to economics, is that foreigners are a fairly strong source of income for single mothers in the provinces.  I know it's a little cliched, but if you were going to make those foreigners unneeded, you would need to have a welfare system capable of taking care of their children.

 

One of the biggest questions, though, is how would Thailand become a modern and wealthy country?  Where would the money come from?  How would these reforms take place?

[JensenZ]

23 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

In Pattaya/Jomtien it is already shut down. Anyone who got one in last 6 weeks please prove me wrong.

 

A number of members have already proven you wrong. Why couldn't you get your extension?

[soi3eddie]

1 hour ago, JensenZ said:

A number of members have already proven you wrong. Why couldn't you get your extension?

Agent last year said now have to have own money in bank. Another said impossible for them now. Have now put money in bank anyway.

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by soi3eddie

[JensenZ]

9 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

To stay in Thailand you should have the money to do so.

What a brilliant deduction. People need money to live on whether they use agents or not.

[Dogmatix]

There are a lot of privileged Thais who also worry their golden age will come to end. Some of them are called senators

[quake]

Nothing major will change for us.

We are not even on there radar.

They have a zillion things to sort out first.

( 50 years worth I think )

Get over it, you are not important at all here.

Do you know who I am, ?  yes a nobody in Thailand.

Coffee time. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by quake

[JoseThailand]

On 5/26/2023 at 10:37 PM, Jingthing said:

"Higher level" countries don't rely on tourism as much, don't have scads of flexible visa options, including Buy a Visa plans such as the Elite Card, and indeed most countries don't even have ANY retirement visa program. Of course a "higher level" country will generally have higher costs and a stronger currency, pricing out many even if they can qualify for whatever visa options are left.

More and more previously "closed" countries are opening up, offering various kinds of visas for digital nomads, retirees etc. It's a global trend.

[JoseThailand]

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

There are a lot of privileged Thais who also worry their golden age will come to end. Some of them are called senators

I wish the golden age for military crooks came to an end.

[Jingthing]

22 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

As an aside, There is a Visa Agent in Pattaya (Soi Post Office / Soi 13/2) that has a sign in their window saying something like “Visa for Man with Man” (it’s been a while so don’t quote me on that). 
 

Agency is a few doors down from Maneerat as you’re walking to the beach. 

 

Back to OP: I don’t think the Government per se will pose a danger to us retired Expats, but the general cost of living increases (which have been quite severe for the past couple of years) will… Especially for Brits living on frozen state pensions 

 

Obviously government policy can/will influence the rate of increase but any government that causes it to rise too high too fast won’t last very long here. 
 

 

There is no way there is a service to get a Thai visa based on a same sex relationship! Hopefully eventually but not now.

I reckon the advert you saw was about visas for Thais that want to marry their foreign same sex partners in more advanced countries where that is legal.

 

Next 

 

...

[Artisi]

On 5/27/2023 at 2:25 AM, stoner said:

how long does an entire cultural change take ? generations. 

 

education alone is a monumental task. one single gov't will barely make a dent in what is truly needed. 

 

police.. military.. save face.. entitlement.. etc.

 

good luck. i do have faith in the younger ones but most my generation or older are hopeless. i first came here 20 years ago. for 1 example. the driving habits are almost identical now vs back then. 

 

 

But 3- 4 times the number of cars and bikes all trying to keep the population down ????

[Kwasaki]

17 hours ago, chalawaan said:

In that case, no one should be allowed in without insurance no exceptions. 

 

Yet every second man and his dog here considers it a rip off! 

 

Other than that, if someone is law abiding their net wealth is immaterial. 

Agree travel insurance for tourists yes, no matter whose in charge of governing Thailand.

For those living here health insurance at usually 70 + many cannot get.

Taking care of your health as best you can is what's needed.

My local government hospital where I pay for regular check ups is excellent.