Opinion Editorial: No, It Isn’t Time to Worry About RETIREMENT VISA Changes….Yet

[sambum]

20 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Depends what it is. A photo of a roof maybe, a required document, not so sure.

I see what you mean, and  "a required document" that appears on the requirements of the Police Order 654/2564 is probably essential, but you also have regional variations on "required documents" as you probably know - that is one of the main problems, and you often wonder why it is a requirement at all - what purpose does it serve?  

[jwest10]

4 hours ago, BusyB said:

I think partly xenophobia in certain quarters, sadly, though LOS is not unique in this respect.

 

And also perhaps envy. Both of our lifestyles and perceived riches. In comparison to them we are fabulously rich, and even most of the less well off among us  'live the dream' most Thais cannot even aspire to. I can remember the darkness and anger that befell the IO's face as she saw my pension statement as I went through the process. It's probably many times her (official) income as an Immi Captain.

 

And how they threw stones in my way and even asked outright for a 5 figure bribe to sort problems they themselves had raised. I skirted round it all and simply did the footwork that was obviously being required, even though it is nowhere stated in the requirements IB itself puts out.

 

If Hakporn is serious that's where he has to start. With his own. Or in my case at least it'll be good guy out, bad guys can stay. I'm neither on the run from my home country, nor am I addicted to sex with barely articulate rice farmers' daughters. I first came here 20 years ago and have been in love with and a friend of the country and some people here since then. 

 

But if he insists, then OK, I have a good life back home as well.

 

Many have nothing at home fmily houses and they are all here!!!!

[Kerryd]

Lol - like increasing the amount needed for a Retirement Visa/Extension to 1.2 mil will somehow deter "criminals" from entering the country or staying here. All it would do is make things harder for the honest people, which make up the majority of the expats in the country (despite what some barstool proppers like to pretend).

And consider how many of the criminals don't have visas or valid passports to begin with. And if an "agent" can somehow get around the 400k in the bank all year, then I suspect they'd be able to get around any other new requirement as well.

Changing the rules won't solve a thing. If anything, it will just mean that there'll be even more criminals as they won't care about the rules anyways but the ordinary, honest expats will be forced to leave.

[rocketboy2]

Bad immigration officers out, Good immigration officers in .

Would be the correct starting point.

Sort it out,  Mr Joke

 

[mokwit]

Just now, rocketboy2 said:

Bad immigration officers out, Good immigration officers in .

Would be the correct starting point.

Sort it out,  Mr Joke

 

Which is which? Is the bad one, the one who asks for everything to the letter and more or the nice IO who does your agency visa at no inconvenience to you? Confused.

[bizboi]

11 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Difficult for agents to differentiate between Olaf type criminals and retired pensioners.

 

Maybe time to get rid of people with tattoos

So lady retirees can look out as well?

[CartagenaWarlock]

8 hours ago, Emdog said:

How about a "crackdown" on the criminal agents who are able to make the deposit/income requirement disappear (fraud) and the enabling Thai immigration officers (collusion), and those who finance these crimes and lawlessness, the farangs who pay for the enterprise

I strongly believe this will never happen unless another crime is committed and it is case by case basis. The high officials all know that due no fault of IOs and agents they are not able to earn dollars and they need more compensation in cases where a person wants to avoid the money requirements. They may progressively make it difficult and more expensive, e.g. if an LTR type visa requirement is needed, agent fees may go as high as 100,000K for five year visa. 

[rocketboy2]

19 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Which is which? Is the bad one, the one who asks for everything to the letter and more or the nice IO who does your agency visa at no inconvenience to you? Confused.

I don't need or use an agent.

is that ok for you.

[mokwit]

15 hours ago, rocketboy2 said:

I don't need or use an agent.

is that ok for you.

Aah OK, got it. You have no need to use an agent. What you meant was:

Was speaking generally, not specific to you.

[BusyB]

59 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Many have nothing at home fmily houses and they are all here!!!!

Oh believe me I appreciate that some of us will feel the squeeze to the pips and maybe even HAVE to leave if Big Hakparn gets his way. I was just putting my position forward. In reality he'd be foolish to drive any of us out as long as we're law abiding and supportive of our Thai communities.

[Joe Mama]

Why are you picking on all of the 50 year old plus retiree's because of a couple of rogue motorcycle gangs?  I would guess that 99.9% of the retirement visa holders in Thailand have no affiliation or intentions of ever belonging to a criminal motorcycle gang enterprise!  That's a pretty weak excuse to punish  thousands of law abiding Thai Retirement Visa holders because of the actions of a handful of criminals!  Instead, how about implementing an outright ban on criminal motorcycle gangs within Thailand?  You seem to know who they all are already as many have been recently identified!

[blackcab]

8 hours ago, KannikaP said:

And if your passport shows that you have not been out of Thailand so unable to 'add to' your, hopefully non-existent home country criminal record?

 

People can be convicted in their absence, in which case they would probably be on the run or a fugitive from justice.

 

Exactly the sort of person a criminal record check would be designed to catch.

[Dogmatix]

2 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Yes but also note the word "consecutively" (click on image)

Yes, that was introduced in about 2002 which meant those continuously on retirement extensions for about 6 years were grandfathered in at the old lump sum of 200k.  You have to keep on getting consecutive extensions to maintain it or you get bumped up to the 800k. 

[Dogmatix]

2 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

These posts are like Chinese whispers, there really is no point speculating. The truth of the matter is "Joke" isn't very funny and gets moved on when he makes too many waves. Thailand has no logic so it is just a guessing game. It is a balencing act, scare off new retirees and kick out the old ones? What will TAT say? What about all the abandoned families?

How about the RTP does a job on the Biker Gangs and kicks them out? No, that's too much like work so is never going to happen is it.

 

Of course they don't want to kick out the biker gangs that are involved in serious crime like selling property with fraudulent title deeds in Samui, extorting farang businesses, drugs and even murder but those ones cultivate good relationships with local cops and pay them off.

[Bundooman]

13 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Difficult for agents to differentiate between Olaf type criminals and retired pensioners.

 

Maybe time to get rid of people with tattoos

Meaning that I, who have a couple of tattoos - curtesy of my younger days in the Royal Navy, am destined to be liquidated?

[Gknrd]

Welcome To Thailand... Top retirement destination in the world.

 

[JensenZ]

If this editorial was meant to be a relief to retired expats, it did a lousy job by adding at the end:

 

Quote

"For now, however, breathe a bit…any changes are at least six months off and more likely a year, in my opinion"

OK, so don't worry about it today, you can start worrying in 6 months.

[blackcab]

3 hours ago, BE88 said:

Why should it be done every year?

It would be necessary to have it before coming to Thailand, it doesn't seem possible that a normal person after the age of 50 can suddenly become a criminal in Thailand if he has no previous criminal contributions.

 

As I mentioned above, you could be convicted in your absence.

 

Some people are convicted in their absence of serious, historic crimes that they committed many years ago.

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

Yes, that was introduced in about 2002 which meant those continuously on retirement extensions for about 6 years were grandfathered in at the old lump sum of 200k.  You have to keep on getting consecutive extensions to maintain it or you get bumped up to the 800k. 

 

So those guys would be something like a minimum of 77 years old now, with at least 27 consecutive years of extensions in Thailand.

 

I am sure there are some, but there can't be many, and their number will be decreasing every year.

[Lite Beer]

18 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

So those guys would be something like a minimum of 77 years old now, with at least 27 consecutive years of extensions in Thailand.

 

I am sure there are some, but there can't be many, and their number will be decreasing every year.

An alien entering the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom
for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria :
(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with a deposit maintained in a bank account
for the past three months of no less than 200,000 baht or have a monthly income of no less than 20,000 baht.
(b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, an alien must have an annual fixed income
with a deposit maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than 500,000 baht
or have a monthly income of no less than 50,000 baht.

[blackcab]

@Lite Beer Thank you. So the retirees applying under this section would now be a minimum of 80 years old for the 50,000/500,000 route, or 85 years old for the 20,000/200,000 route, with a minimum consecutive stay in Thailand of 25 years.

 

This must be a small subset of retirees.

[redwood1]

Well what really sucks big time for retired expats is they only have so many years left on earth, which should be spent in peace instead of worring about their visas being made harder and harder all the time.....Its evil really...

 

I bet many expats have ZERO to go back to....

[humbug]

9 hours ago, mokwit said:

What kind of check and with who is this? I seem to remember it is for Thailand/Interpol notices not for criminal record from your home country? I don't think they get the non criminal record confirmation from an applicants country.

 

It will be up to us to get hard copy of this, not for the IB to get it.

Hold on, if someone been living here for 5-10 years, then the criminal record will be done in Thailand, they have 2 sections for records, one office for working here, the other office for going overseas or for immigration, even on here marriage visa holders state they had to get a local record check, so it will drpend, where you have been living, which will then be your record check

[soalbundy]

Why get your knickers in a twist about something that probably won't happen. Hakparn had a bad hair day about some criminal elements which reflected badly on him and made some remarks about being stricter with the laws, so now you extrapolate from that that he will lead a crusade against retirees who have been here for years, I don't think so, Thailand has a record of 'clamping down', it lasts all of 3 days. I've been here nearly 20 years without ever leaving and have never had a problem with visa extensions, I am on the 65k/month route, maybe eventually they will bump it up but I doubt it will be exaggerated. Have you ever considered that the IO needs us as a justification for their existence, (hence the 90 day nonsense) a mass exodus is not what they want.

[humbug]

My take on this is that it was planned for years, but the virus suspended the plans, until now or the near future, even a new government won't be that new, and will be influenced from the old regime

 

So changing the immigration act, will be for many reasons, not just the over 50 visa, but maybe how extensions are obtained, changing the laws around citizenship to push for more Chinese land and business owners, which would be maybe underneath all the recent 'special' agreements between Thailand and China, and increase requirements for everybody else to deter many more, and keep less of non-Chinese

 

who knows if it will all succeed, but they clearly have been planning, and big joke is just a mouthpiece, and you also never know, if this old regime will lose its way in the next 5-10 years, and the new fairer regime will become the new way of society, who might have much better ideas for immigration, it's a tough one to try and see too much into the future, but nothing wrong in trying to evaluate things 

 

But last weeks comments werent just for the audience of foreigners, it was probably telegraphing to embassies, that even if the excuse of biker gangs is fake and weak, it's still a good enough eccuse to use as a pretext to try and change many things regarding immigration, which would limit any strong reactions from embassies, and yes its clear many embassies don't give a damn, but this regime still will make sure they can deter any reactions

[Jonathan Swift]

14 hours ago, Gknrd said:

10-1 it will be increased. My guess 2 million, criminal check. The only question is how it will be implemented. Again just a guess, but same as last time .  One year extension on old rules then your next extension will have to comply or out you go. My guess is the agents will have to be pretty well tied into immigration to help, and the fees will double or triple.

Wonder of existing expats will be allowed to keep their present limits grandfathered in, I think they did that with earlier retirees

[Scouse123]

6 hours ago, BE88 said:

Why should it be done every year?

It would be necessary to have it before coming to Thailand, it doesn't seem possible that a normal person after the age of 50 can suddenly become a criminal in Thailand if he has no previous criminal contributions.

That was my point, they were not clear about those of us on Non O visas since, forever! who have been in this country a long bloody time.

 

Do we now start all over again from scratch?

 

These are the dangers of some of the daft ideas suggested by some on here.

 

In another post on here I pointed out the problems from retirees and people married to Thais causing problems or making mischief would be minuscule to the RTP.

 

There is much more chance at those coming in on VOA who have decided not to return home then turn to crime here to support themselves living here.

 

In my Pattaya days I used to see a group of young Nigerians over towards the Dark side who had been there a couple of years, this was just one example of Pattaya.

 

They were far too young for retirement visas and they weren't on marriage visas and they were shooting pool every day, so they weren't working and no way were they on holiday that length of time.

 

 

 

 

 

[david555]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

@Lite Beer Thank you. So the retirees applying under this section would now be a minimum of 80 years old for the 50,000/500,000 route, or 85 years old for the 20,000/200,000 route, with a minimum consecutive stay in Thailand of 25 years.

 

This must be a small subset of retirees.

Also have to consider that those 800 K is already a very long time same amount ....

 

while in all those years our pensions are became higher year by year ( at least mine did so) ....so it would not be a surprise if a moderate  augmentation could becoming considered.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

Also have to consider that those 800 K is already a very long time same amount ....

 

while in all those years our pensions are became higher year by year ( at least mine did so) ....so it would not be a surprise if a moderate  augmentation could becoming considered.

Yet 800K is not particularly low from a global perspective.

 

Citing a number of countries with retirement visas where the number is considerably lower (not an inclusive list of all such countries).

 

Cambodia

Philippines

Malaysia (Sarawak province only) (income method)

Portugal (first world country)

Ecuador

Colombia

Peru

Chile (first world country)

Nicaragua

Costa Rica

Panama 

Dominican Republic

Uruguay 

Argentina

Mauritius 

 

To add, the current average U.S. government retirement pension is 59K baht.

That is UNDER the current 65K income requirement here,

 

Raise from 800K?

 

Really?

Why? 

 

(Perhaps of academic interest -- the requirement for South Africa is slightly higher than Thailand and like Thailand allows a combination of income and banked money to qualify.)

[redwood1]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

Also have to consider that those 800 K is already a very long time same amount ....

 

while in all those years our pensions are became higher year by year ( at least mine did so) ....so it would not be a surprise if a moderate  augmentation could becoming considered.

What does it matter how long 800k has been the required amout......800k is already a tidy sum of money....I sure dont see pension raising that much in the last 20 years or incomes unless maybe you work with computers...

 

800k should absolutly not be raised ...