Non o retirement visa accidentally got cancelled

[Terry2905]

Hi everyone. 

 

I fell ill and returned to the UK to try and get some help. 

 

I did have a non o retirement visa, but I totally forgot about getting a re entry stamp.

 

I was actually only in the UK for 3 days, because social services and the NHS refused to help me.

 

Upon my return, I was only given a 28 day voa. 

 

I immediately went to my visa agent, who told me that I need to apply again for a new non o retirement visa, so I paid them to do that.

 

Today they told me jomtien immigration have refused the non o retirement visa, and will only give me a 90 day extension. 

 

I don't really know or understand the next steps, so I am asking for advice. 

 

From what I understand, I  can get 2 more 90 day voa extensions, but what happens after that?

 

As I understand it, I would have to leave Thailand for 3 months, before returning on another voa?

 

And rinse and repeat for the rest of my life?

 

I will add that when I returned from the very short and expensive and frustrating and fruitless few days in the UK, I did not have the 800,000 baht in the bank. 

 

The visa agent did do the usual thing, deposited 800,000 baht and withdrew it the same day, which had worked in the past, but it seems that jomtien immigration have tightened up, and not allowing that visa agent bypass to work anymore. 

 

What I don't is if a visa bounce still works, for example, 3 extensions, followed by a 1 day border run, and rinse and repeat?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, because the stress is almost too much for me to deal with in my current state of health. 

 

Thanks 

[Tod Daniels]

I think you're confused about the process.

 

There is no such thing as a 90-day extension.

 

I think if you look carefully at your stamp you will see what your agent got you was a 90-day non-o Visa based on retirement.

 

And you will have to wait and then apply again for the year extension.

 

Most agents in Pattaya do what's called a 3 + 12, meaning they get you the initial 90 day non-o Visa, and then they get you the year extension after that. Giving you a total of 15 months.

 

So talk to whatever agent you used and look carefully at the stamp you have in your passport because I believe you do have a 90-day non-o Visa and will be able to get the year retirement extension after this runs down some

[scubascuba3]

I agree with the above post, 90 day extension sounds fishy, so probably incorrect. Check passport carefully, post on here photo if you can 

 

Agents usually get 90 day non imm O + 1 year extension so 15 months, it's not clear why that didn't work.

 

Op is you putting 800k in the bank possible?

[Tod Daniels]

I think what it is also, the fact that the agents can't get both stamps at the same time.

 

They get the 90-day Visa first and then a couple weeks later or a month later they get the year extension.

 

Most of those agencies hold passports for a month to 6 weeks to do the complete cycle of the 3 + 12..

[impulse]

Hoping the above posts answer your visa question, may I ask why the NHS and social services declined to help you? 

 

The details may be helpful for anyone using "go back home and get treated for free" as their preferred health insurance cover in Thailand.

 

[DrJack54]

3 hours ago, Terry2905 said:

 

Today they told me jomtien immigration have refused the non o retirement visa, and will only give me a 90 day extension. 

Post pic of your stamp that agent obtained.

Thinking it was a Non O based on retirement.

Ask agent why they could not obtain the 12 month extension (it's not a visa) 

Which agent did you use.

 

Jomtien currently requiring 2 months seasoning for the Non O.

I realize you used an agent but the 2 months indicates Jomtien currently throwing a hissy.

 

Suggest that you consult with a reputable agent such as Maneerat Soi 13/2 for advice. 

[Tod Daniels]

16 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Post pic of your stamp that agent obtained.

Thinking it was a Non O based on retirement.

Ask agent why they could not obtain the 12 month extension (it's not a visa) 

Which agent did you use.

 

Jomtien currently requiring 2 months seasoning for the Non O.

I realize you used an agent but the 2 months indicates Jomtien currently throwing a hissy.

 

Suggest that you consult with a reputable agent such as Maneerat Soi 13/2 for advice. 

None of the agents down there not Mots, TikTok or Maneerat can get BOTH the 90 day Non-O and the year extension stamp issued the same day.

Even when they bank the money for you and "grease the wheel" to avoid the seasoning. It takes about a month because Jomtien won't date the Non-O and the year extension the same day (Like Bangkok and other offices will).. 

To the O/P this is what an in country 90 day Non-O VISA looks like (This is from Phuket).
Look at the stamp in your passport and see if that's what you have.. If it is you're FINE and you should talk to what ever agent got it for you so you can have them get you the year extension in another month or so. 

[flexomike]

13 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Post pic of your stamp that agent obtained.

Thinking it was a Non O based on retirement.

Ask agent why they could not obtain the 12 month extension (it's not a visa) 

Which agent did you use.

 

Jomtien currently requiring 2 months seasoning for the Non O.

I realize you used an agent but the 2 months indicates Jomtien currently throwing a hissy.

 

Suggest that you consult with a reputable agent such as Maneerat Soi 13/2 for advice. 

no such thing as a 12 month extension of a visa exempt entry, have to get the 90 day visa and then get that extended for one year

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, flexomike said:

no such thing as a 12 month extension of a visa exempt entry, have to get the 90 day visa and then get that extended for one year

Obviously.

He entered visa exempt and via agent obtained a Non O giving him 90 days.

Think OP is confused.

Hopefully the agent can obtain the 12 month extension in due course.

The post by @Tod Daniels above covers the situation at Jomtien..

[Tod Daniels]

And while OFF TOPIC: just to give a pointer to people
 

Here's how you can tell AGENT gotten Non-O and year extension stamps from SOME offices
 

Look at the dates on the stamps the Non-O, the year extension and the re-entry permit were issued ALL in one day. Oct 6, 2022

There is no way for a "normal" person to walk in and get that done..

You have to apply for the Non-O, WAIT the under review period, go back get it inked in WAIT until you have so many days left on your stamp, go back and apply for the extension. The dates will be spread out over a period of a couple months..

Now don't think these aren't real stamps by real officers at real offices, because they are.

All I'm doing is pointing out how you can tell agent gotten stamps, and if I can spot them imagine how good immigration officers are at it ???? ???? ????

[FritsSikkink]

When will these topics on how to bribe an immigration officer cease to exit? 

[Ginkas]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

Hoping the above posts answer your visa question, may I ask why the NHS and social services declined to help you? 

 

The details may be helpful for anyone using "go back home and get treated for free" as their preferred health insurance cover in Thailand.

 

The rules on NHS cover for people returning from abroad changed some years ago.

If you've been living abroad for more than a certain amount of time you are no longer entitled to free NHS treatment.

In fact, they will charge you 150% of their costs!

 

To become eligible again you have to prove that you are now resident in the UK -Council tax, utility bills, etc.,

this can take up to 6 months.

They will, however, always treat an emergency without question, it's just any follow up treatment that may be charged.

[VocalNeal]

Sadly the moral of the story is don't forget your re-entry permit when leaving.

[CanadaSam]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Think OP is confused.

More than confused, dangerously incompetent at navigating life, IMO.

 

He leaves on a retirement visa without getting a re-entry stamp.

 

He spends 3 days in the UK without solving his medical problems, instead of researching the same and avoiding the unnecessary trip.

 

Now, he is not aware of his visa status and options (easily obtained from the agent who got him his present visa).

[Lemsta69]

1 hour ago, CanadaSam said:

More than confused, dangerously incompetent at navigating life, IMO.

 

He leaves on a retirement visa without getting a re-entry stamp.

 

He spends 3 days in the UK without solving his medical problems, instead of researching the same and avoiding the unnecessary trip.

 

Now, he is not aware of his visa status and options (easily obtained from the agent who got him his present visa).

That's a bit rich coming from a guy who eats 69 baht steaks instead of A5 Wagyu.

 

Also doesn't help the OP one hot.

[impulse]

2 hours ago, Ginkas said:

The rules on NHS cover for people returning from abroad changed some years ago.

If you've been living abroad for more than a certain amount of time you are no longer entitled to free NHS treatment.

In fact, they will charge you 150% of their costs!

 

To become eligible again you have to prove that you are now resident in the UK -Council tax, utility bills, etc.,

this can take up to 6 months.

They will, however, always treat an emergency without question, it's just any follow up treatment that may be charged.

Good info.  Thanks.  Just out of curiosity, does anyone tuned in here know the exact amount of time abroad before you're vulnerable?

[roo860]

4 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

And while OFF TOPIC: just to give a pointer to people
 

Here's how you can tell AGENT gotten Non-O and year extension stamps from SOME offices
 

Look at the dates on the stamps the Non-O, the year extension and the re-entry permit were issued ALL in one day. Oct 6, 2022

There is no way for a "normal" person to walk in and get that done..

You have to apply for the Non-O, WAIT the under review period, go back get it inked in WAIT until you have so many days left on your stamp, go back and apply for the extension. The dates will be spread out over a period of a couple months..

Now don't think these aren't real stamps by real officers at real offices, because they are.

All I'm doing is pointing out how you can tell agent gotten stamps, and if I can spot them imagine how good immigration officers are at it ???? ???? ????

Excellent Tod, nice to see someone with good experience and imput on the forum!????????????

[Eff1n2ret]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

Good info.  Thanks.  Just out of curiosity, does anyone tuned in here know the exact amount of time abroad before you're vulnerable?

I think it depends on when or if your GP knocks you off their records, and then your National Health number gets deleted. I left the UK in late 2009. In 2016 I had an acute bout of asthma when I was back there, Saturday morning, the surgery was closed so I presented myself at A & E. I gave the receptionist my name and dob, and she immediately said, "Oh that's XX, YZ Road?", my former address. So, nearly 7 years later I was still on the system. More recently I've searched for my record on the NHS website (I can't remember my NH number) and I've become a non-person. Treatment by a GP, if you can get an appointment, or at A&E is free even if you're a non-resident, the 'cost + 50%' applies to in-patient treatment.

[Zapitapi]

7 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

I think you're confused about the process.

 

There is no such thing as a 90-day extension.

 

I think if you look carefully at your stamp you will see what your agent got you was a 90-day non-o Visa based on retirement.

 

And you will have to wait and then apply again for the year extension.

 

Most agents in Pattaya do what's called a 3 + 12, meaning they get you the initial 90 day non-o Visa, and then they get you the year extension after that. Giving you a total of 15 months.

 

So talk to whatever agent you used and look carefully at the stamp you have in your passport because I believe you do have a 90-day non-o Visa and will be able to get the year retirement extension after this runs down some

seems about right!

[Andrew Dwyer]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

When will these topics on how to bribe an immigration officer cease to exit? 

Who is bribing an immigration officer ?

 

What I see is someone who went to the U.K., forgot to get a re-entry permit and has now returned visa exempt, the agent has got him a 90 day non imm O visa ( which he could have got himself ) and he will get an extension, to his permission to stay, based on retirement.

 

Other than confusion over the terminology used I don’t see anything untoward here.

[khunPer]

8 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

I think you're confused about the process.

 

There is no such thing as a 90-day extension.

 

I think if you look carefully at your stamp you will see what your agent got you was a 90-day non-o Visa based on retirement.

 

And you will have to wait and then apply again for the year extension.

 

Most agents in Pattaya do what's called a 3 + 12, meaning they get you the initial 90 day non-o Visa, and then they get you the year extension after that. Giving you a total of 15 months.

 

So talk to whatever agent you used and look carefully at the stamp you have in your passport because I believe you do have a 90-day non-o Visa and will be able to get the year retirement extension after this runs down some

Agree...????

[howerde]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

Good info.  Thanks.  Just out of curiosity, does anyone tuned in here know the exact amount of time abroad before you're vulnerable?

There is no minimum/ maximum time abroad(once you move abroad and are no longer resident you lose your right to free NHS treatment getting it back is quite simple see below 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-nhs-when-you-return-to-live-in-the-uk#:~:text=Complete a GMS1 form to,are eligible for free healthcare.

 

for what it is worth if you are still registered with your gp you would be covered unless you tell them you live abroad, i hear some people use a relatives house to still show an address in UK(they get themselves on the council tax bill, but as you know the GP where you are registered must be in the area where your 'new address' is

[Jumbo1968]

5 minutes ago, howerde said:

There is no minimum/ maximum time abroad(once you move abroad and are no longer resident you lose your right to free NHS treatment getting it back is quite simple see below 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-nhs-when-you-return-to-live-in-the-uk#:~:text=Complete a GMS1 form to,are eligible for free healthcare.

 

for what it is worth if you are still registered with your gp you would be covered unless you tell them you live abroad, i hear some people use a relatives house to still show an address in UK(they get themselves on the council tax bill, but as you know the GP where you are registered must be in the area where your 'new address' is

He probably didn’t own property in the U.K. so couldn’t provide the required documentation.

[NextG]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

When will these topics on how to bribe an immigration officer cease to exit? 

When you stop reading them, they will cease to exist, for you. 

[Terry2905]

I have read all of your replies. 

 

My passport is still with immigration.

 

The agent that I use phoned me yesterday telling me that I have to go back to the bank with them on Tuesday, and something about getting my passport back on Thursday with a 90 day extension of my voa. They didn't mention the non o retirement visa. 

 

And no, I am not inept. I was sick and in a wheelchair, and I simply forgot about getting a re entry stamp. 

 

What Dr Jack 54 has said may be true, and my agent will get me a 90 day extension, followed later with a non o retirement visa stamp for 1 year. I hope!

 

When I got my original retirement visa it was all done in 1 go (90 day extension and a retirement visa stamp, basically 15 months, followed by annual extensions after that).

 

I will answer canadasam. I have extensively researched my current health issues, and the medication to treat my condition is NOT available in Thailand. That is why I went back to the UK. The NHS refused to help me in Manchester, because I was registered with my previous address in Blackpool. I went to Blackpool, but was told by the city council that there was no accommodation available, and I simply couldn't afford to pay for a hotel and taxi fares to go and see my previous gp or hospital. That is why I returned immediately back to Thailand. 

 

I will not say what my health problem is, so don't ask.

 

I will wait and see what the visa agent says when I see them on Tuesday. 

 

All they have said so far is that there is a problem in jomtien immigration and it is something to do with the bank, and I have to go back to the bank again on Tuesday, and that I will get my passport back on Thursday, with only a 90 day extension of my voa. No mention of later getting a non o visa, but that may be just because they have not told me much?

 

Thank you all for some of the positive replies. 

 

I will post an update when I know more. 

[DrJack54]

22 minutes ago, Terry2905 said:

What Dr Jack 54 has said may be true, and my agent will get me a 90 day extension, followed later with a non o retirement visa stamp for 1 year. I hope

You are confused.

There is a pathway from visa exempt entry to Non O (retirement). It's a visa that provides a 90 day permission of stay stamp (it's not an extension) 

In the last 30 days of that permit you apply for a 12 month extension (it's not a retirement visa stamp).

 

It's unclear if you are using agent to bypass the financial requirements or just an organizer and you actually do have the required funds in bank account. 

 

These threads explain the process that you are currently doing 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1282251-visa-exempt-to-non-o-retirement-dates/ 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1301615-converting-visa-on-arrival-to-non-o-retirement-based-in-nan-province/

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Who is bribing an immigration officer ?

 

What I see is someone who went to the U.K., forgot to get a re-entry permit and has now returned visa exempt, the agent has got him a 90 day non imm O visa ( which he could have got himself ) and he will get an extension, to his permission to stay, based on retirement.

 

Other than confusion over the terminology used I don’t see anything untoward here.

He doesn't meet the financial requirements and needs to pay an agent to get permission to stay without a legal basis. If you pay somebody to commit a crime to acquire something, you can't get by legal means, you are committing a crime yourself too. 

This post will for sure get replies from people who deny this is the case, but they are wrong.

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

I think what it is also, the fact that the agents can't get both stamps at the same time.

 

They get the 90-day Visa first and then a couple weeks later or a month later they get the year extension.

 

Most of those agencies hold passports for a month to 6 weeks to do the complete cycle of the 3 + 12..

that's not how it usually works, usually you get the passport back with 15 months in it

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

When will these topics on how to bribe an immigration officer cease to exit? 

worried you might get caught?

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Obviously.

He entered visa exempt and via agent obtained a Non O giving him 90 days.

Think OP is confused.

Hopefully the agent can obtain the 12 month extension in due course.

The post by @Tod Daniels above covers the situation at Jomtien..

Agents usually do both together