Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[Danderman123]

5 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Whatever you don't transfer before December 31, you must freeze in a separate bank account. 

What does "freeze" mean in this context?

 

[jerrymahoney]

24 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

That's for Inheritance Tax

2x now mea culpa. I was looking for info on the foreign-sourced gift tax and that popped up but I did not see it was under the Inheritance section.

 

But along the lines of the US foreign-sourced gift tax, if it said that the Thai domestic tax free maintenance gift was up to 20 million per year and the foreign sourced gift at 3 million baht per year, that would make more sense to me.

 

But it doesn't.

[Mike Teavee]

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

2x now mea culpa. I was looking for info on the foreign-sourced gift tax and that popped up but I did not see it was under the Inheritance section.

 

But along the lines of the US foreign-sourced gift tax, if it said that the Thai domestic tax free maintenance gift was up to 20 million per year and the foreign sourced gift at 3 million baht per year, that would make more sense to me.

 

But it doesn't.

No worries, I posted my reply before I saw @Yumthairesponse so Mea Culpa also :) 

 

I do think that the Gift Tax is a glaring loophole in the RD's plans to tax more incoming remittances from their main target (Thais with significant overseas incomes) so would be surprised if it didn't quickly come under a lot of scrutiny & get reduced to 1-2Million.

 

Seems US has a 3Million THB limit on Tax Free Gifts, IIRC it's £3,000 (PA) in the UK which is about 1.33Million THB.

[Ben Zioner]

16 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

What does "freeze" mean in this context?

 

Don't pollute it with new credits after 31 december. 

 

[jerrymahoney]

35 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

No worries, I posted my reply before I saw @Yumthairesponse so Mea Culpa also :) 

 

I do think that the Gift Tax is a glaring loophole in the RD's plans to tax more incoming remittances from their main target (Thais with significant overseas incomes) so would be surprised if it didn't quickly come under a lot of scrutiny & get reduced to 1-2Million.

 

Seems US has a 3Million THB limit on Tax Free Gifts, IIRC it's £3,000 (PA) in the UK which is about 1.33Million THB.

Yes and as I noted earlier, in the US, there are rigorous reporting requirements for foreign tax-free gifts due to anti-money laundering provisions.

 

US Form for reporting foreign gifts:

 

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3520.pdf

 

Annual Return To Report Transactions With
Foreign Trusts and Receipt of Certain Foreign Gifts

Edited December 14, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[jerrymahoney]

Late  note the above: The Gift Section is mainly page 6.

[beautifulthailand99]

19 hours ago, stat said:

Common knowledge how it works. It is also common knowledger that there is a good chanceit will put you on a nice list that the US immigration and the FBI will pull out next time you visit the US as for t... financing. I know a lot of foreign arabic guest workers uses it but I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole.

It appears that the couriers are Thai rumoured to be connected to Chinese mafia. Back to bringing wads of cash through Heathrow. I have seen folks pulled up but you are by law allowed 10k each as long as you can prove it was legitly earned. That said on the Thai side they will be doubly alert looking for wads to seize/tax. On this trip we brought 5oz of gold we had bought back in UK a year ago from the Royal Mint - sold them at 69k an oz on Yaoworat Raod this week for nearly 350k cash. Thanks to Hamas we made a tidy profit but the transaction costs on either end are prohibitive if we hadn't had the great uplift in post prices.

Edited December 14, 2023 by beautifulthailand99

[thesetat]

On 9/18/2023 at 10:21 AM, lordgrinz said:

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, I guess I could just stop sending anything over here, which is fine with me.

That might be fine with you. But what about those retirees having to send money monthly to meet income requirements for immigration to keep their Visas? 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, thesetat said:

That might be fine with you. But what about those retirees having to send money monthly to meet income requirements for immigration to keep their Visas? 

Read the thread, you are highly unlikely to have to pay tax at all on your pension. 

[stat]

8 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Are you suspecting they will look at every single visitor to Thailand and add up their days in country and then insist those exceeding 180 days, all get a tax ID and submit a form? It might be easier to reintroduce the tax paid certificate for those leaving the country that show up as having been in for a longer period. That won't get the Expats who never go out though. 

Immigration has it in their system that you are over 180 days in Thailand and thus a tax resident so there is no way to stay undecteted, period. If and how they will act upon it is another story time will tell.

[thesetat]

3 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

 

That's for Inheritance Tax... & what's interesting about it is that it seems Guys who are Permanent Residents could be subject to IHT. 

 

 

2.2.2 Persons with non-Thai nationality
All assets of individuals holding Thai residency pursuant to Thai immigration laws* are taxable. For any individual without residency in Thailand under Thai immigration laws, but receiving taxable assets in Thailand, these assets are taxable. Furthermore, the inherited assets situated in Thailand of foreign juristic persons receiving those assets situated are taxable.

 

*Individuals approved by the Immigration Commission who have received a certificate of residence are considered to have residency in Thailand for inheritance tax purposes (section 41 of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979)).

So, In short, if you have gotten a certificate of residency to get a vehicle in your name or a drivers permit or to make a condo purchase in your name. Then you are now considered a taxable resident. Is this only for inheritance tax? Or will it be considered taxable income from profits abroad or income from abroad? Everything I read only leaves more questions to ask. If it is this difficult for a foreigner to know then I can not imagine how difficult it will be for the tax office to interpret. It might be best to plan all money sent to Thailand will be considered taxable until proven otherwise. This is going to be a nightmare.. 

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, thesetat said:

So, In short, if you have gotten a certificate of residency to get a vehicle in your name or a drivers permit or to make a condo purchase in your name. Then you are now considered a taxable resident. Is this only for inheritance tax? Or will it be considered taxable income from profits abroad or income from abroad? Everything I read only leaves more questions to ask. If it is this difficult for a foreigner to know then I can not imagine how difficult it will be for the tax office to interpret. It might be best to plan all money sent to Thailand will be considered taxable until proven otherwise. This is going to be a nightmare.. 

You can ONLY be Thai tax resident by spending a minimum of 180 days in Thailand, in the tax year.

[Mike Teavee]

10 minutes ago, thesetat said:

So, In short, if you have gotten a certificate of residency to get a vehicle in your name or a drivers permit or to make a condo purchase in your name. Then you are now considered a taxable resident. Is this only for inheritance tax? Or will it be considered taxable income from profits abroad or income from abroad? Everything I read only leaves more questions to ask. If it is this difficult for a foreigner to know then I can not imagine how difficult it will be for the tax office to interpret. It might be best to plan all money sent to Thailand will be considered taxable until proven otherwise. This is going to be a nightmare.. 

 

It does read that way BUT I think they're referring to Permanent Residents as even guys on a 30 day Visa Exempt can (or at least used to be able to, some offices won't do them now) get a Certificate of Residency for opening bank accounts etc... 

 

 

 

[metisdead]

A post with a link to a disallowed source in violation of the Forum Rules has been removed:

 

16. The Bangkok Post, Khaosod, Pattaya Mail and the Phuket News do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on ASEAN NOW. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to the Bangkok Post, Khaosod, Pattaya Mail and the Phuket News publications will be deleted from the forum. These restrictions are put in place by the above publications, not by ASEAN NOW. In rare cases, forum administrators or the news team may use these sources under special permission.

[RupertIII]

1 hour ago, thesetat said:

So, In short, if you have gotten a certificate of residency to get a vehicle in your name or a drivers permit or to make a condo purchase in your name. Then you are now considered a taxable resident. Is this only for inheritance tax? Or will it be considered taxable income from profits abroad or income from abroad? Everything I read only leaves more questions to ask. If it is this difficult for a foreigner to know then I can not imagine how difficult it will be for the tax office to interpret. It might be best to plan all money sent to Thailand will be considered taxable until proven otherwise. This is going to be a nightmare.. 

To avoid confusion this could be referred to as a certificate of residential address. Nothing to do with permanent Thai Residency.

[The Cyclist]

37 minutes ago, RupertIII said:

To avoid confusion this could be referred to as a certificate of residential address. Nothing to do with permanent Thai Residency.

 

Which will also cause confusiion.

 

Permanent Thai Residency = PR, which is different from a  Resident for Tax purposes.

Edited December 14, 2023 by The Cyclist

[topt]

4 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

IIRC it's £3,000 (PA) in the UK which is about 1.33Million THB.

Apologies but do you need new batteries for the calculator.... -or have I missed something?

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, metisdead said:

A post with a link to a disallowed source in violation of the Forum Rules has been removed:

 

16. The Bangkok Post, Khaosod, Pattaya Mail and the Phuket News do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on ASEAN NOW. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to the Bangkok Post, Khaosod, Pattaya Mail and the Phuket News publications will be deleted from the forum. These restrictions are put in place by the above publications, not by ASEAN NOW. In rare cases, forum administrators or the news team may use these sources under special permission.

Apologies, I know better than to post links to Bangkok Post but hadn't realised that the others weren't allowed. 

 

Hopefully it's ok to suggest people Google "Myths about Thai expats and those income tax changes starting very soon" as it was an interesting article. 

 

[Mike Teavee]

30 minutes ago, topt said:

Apologies but do you need new batteries for the calculator.... -or have I missed something?

Lol, I certainly do need new batteries for my brain!

 

That should have been £3,000 = approx 133,000B (Only out by a factor of 10 :) ) 

 

[kennypowers]

Save yourself the hassle of speculation and read this: https://www.thethailandlife.com/expat-tax-thailand It has the facts and latest updates. Thank me later :)

 

[topt]

17 minutes ago, kennypowers said:

Save yourself the hassle of speculation and read this: https://www.thethailandlife.com/expat-tax-thailand It has the facts and latest updates. Thank me later :)

 

For what - nothing new there. Doesn't mention Gift Tax........

Note the word apparently"" in the below quote from the article you link. 

Quote

In addition, let's say you transfer 5 million Baht (earned in the previous year) into Thailand to buy a condo. Under the current law that money would not be subject to taxation. However, under the new law it apparently would.

Speculation.......

[Guavaman]

Regarding the tax exempt status of gifts of income from abroad:

 

According to the Q&A that the Revenue Department published on its website (translated by Mazars), income from abroad will not be subject to tax, if such income is eligible for tax exemption under the general rules.

 

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Tax/Q-A-published-on-foreign-sourced-income

 

Following the issuance of the Revenue Departmental instruction number Paw. 161/2566 ("DI. Paw. 161") in September 2023, the Revenue Department published on its website this month a Q&A concerning the concept, conditions and clarification of tax treatments on foreign-sourced income under the Revenue Code.

 

Q1: What kind of income shall be taxed upon bringing into Thailand, according to Section 41 and DI. Paw. 161?  

A: Foreign-sourced income subject to Thai personal income tax upon bringing into Thailand is an assessable income under Section 40(1) to (8) of the Thai Revenue Code.  

Assessable income under Section 40 of the Revenue Code: 

    1. Employment 

    2. Independent personal services 

    3. Goodwill, copyright and other (intangible) rights 

    4. Interest income, dividends and capital gains 

    5. Rental from property 

    6. Professional services 

    7. Hire of work (i.e., services contracts) 

    8. Business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport, etc. 

 

However, if the income is eligible for tax exemption under the general rules, such income from abroad will not be subject to tax under DI. Paw. 161. For example, income regarded as a gift from parents, descendants, or spouses in an amount not over Baht 20 million per annum is exempt from personal income tax. 

[UKresonant]

11 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Here you go, Thailand Tax Clearance Certificate.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html

Excluded for requirement if not exceeding 90days 

 

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

Excluded for requirement if not exceeding 90days 

 

Sure, but easy enough to adapt.

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

 

That's for Inheritance Tax... & what's interesting about it is that it seems Guys who are Permanent Residents could be subject to IHT. 

 

 

2.2.2 Persons with non-Thai nationality
All assets of individuals holding Thai residency pursuant to Thai immigration laws* are taxable. For any individual without residency in Thailand under Thai immigration laws, but receiving taxable assets in Thailand, these assets are taxable. Furthermore, the inherited assets situated in Thailand of foreign juristic persons receiving those assets situated are taxable.

 

*Individuals approved by the Immigration Commission who have received a certificate of residence are considered to have residency in Thailand for inheritance tax purposes (section 41 of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979)).

How much is Inheritance tax in Thailand? Would a dual national have the option to pay in Thailand or the UK?

[lordgrinz]

5 hours ago, thesetat said:

That might be fine with you. But what about those retirees having to send money monthly to meet income requirements for immigration to keep their Visas? 

 

Everyone has their problems to deal with, I am going with not sending a dime over next year (2024). The plan is to see what the rest of you go thru first, let the guinea pigs work out the kinks first, then I can decided to bring in more money in 2025 and deal with taxes in 2026, or just move back to the states. 

[PingRoundTheWorld]

19 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

There is no way the "income earned before Jan 1" ground rule could be implemented, in actual reality.

 

A billionaire could transfer millions of dollars for many years tax free under that concept.

 

I might transfer $50,000 into Thailand in 2026, and show that I had $50,000 in tbe bank in 2023. Is it the same $50,000? How can RD say no?

Bingo. This whole system is unrealistic and relies on people coming forward and declaring that the source of the money is income from the same year. Very few will actually do it, and anyone who can will avoid (not evade) it.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Bingo. This whole system is unrealistic and relies on people coming forward and declaring that the source of the money is income from the same year. Very few will actually do it, and anyone who can will avoid (not evade) it.

Every tax system is based on people being truthful and declaring their income that isn't taxed at source, if you don't declare it, you pay a penalty which could be very costly. And since the banks tell the RD that you've received funds from overseas anyway, you better declare it because they already know! Your choice.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

35 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Every tax system is based on people being truthful and declaring their income that isn't taxed at source, if you don't declare it, you pay a penalty which could be very costly. And since the banks tell the RD that you've received funds from overseas anyway, you better declare it because they already know! Your choice.

By not declaring I mean declaring it as sourced from savings, gift, or other source that isn't income. Assuming we'll actually be required to file tax returns if we don't have taxable income - that remains to be seen.

[quake]

6 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Everyone has their problems to deal with, I am going with not sending a dime over next year (2024). The plan is to see what the rest of you go thru first, let the guinea pigs work out the kinks first, then I can decided to bring in more money in 2025 and deal with taxes in 2026, or just move back to the states. 

 

Same here.