Russian tourist on Pha-ngan Island accused of kicking Thai pregnant woman

[Liverpool Lou]

41 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You mentioned the 'Russian bird assaulter'....    There is no proof of assault... so your bias has shown through.

His giving credence to a published report that indicates nothing false about it does not show bias.

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Perhaps I'm am Bias, I am certainly cynical when reading such reports given the current 'anti-farang' climate in social media in Thailand. 

 

You mentioned the 'Russian bird assaulter'....    There is no proof of assault... so your bias has shown through.

 

We have one Thai lady who has made a claim of assault....   we have on photograph of the Russian lady standing in the shop. 

 

The story is one sided......   We don't even have any comment from the Russian's perspective... So yes, I am quite cynical about this story. 

 

 

You are correct, I don't have all the facts...     Why don't we have the whole CCTV video from the shop ???

 

 

What makes me most cynical is that an accusation like this is being reported on as fact without any proof and then people are believing the reports. 

 

 

My point its the story is very one sided so far...  With these issues there is a trigger point... and it would not surprise me that the 'trigger' point in this case is an unstable unhinged 'surly' Thai shop assistant going from zero to full on in an instant...  I've seen this happen a few times - so of course... my own personal story... or more correctly, my personal experience influences how I interpret the story when its missing facts. 

 

 

Thus: before passing judgement on the Russian or Thai lady...  we'd need to hear both sides of the story.

 

Where is the full CCTV footage... surely that would be widely available if it really did show the Russian woman kicking the pregnant Thai lady....

 

(*is the Thai lady even pregnant, or is that a further cry for victim sympathy ?).

 

 

 

Expand  

😂..............The thread is about a Russian bird assaulting a pregnant Thai shop owner.........Perhaps you should get onto who ever wrote the story for our attention.....😂

 

If we do it your way, nobody would post.......

 

Remember, TVF/AN is not a court of law, it is a place to chew over what is in front of us, you have

😉

 

100% agree...   TVF / AN is not a court of law... Which is why we have the luxury of discussion and opinion. 

 

My opinion (for the moment) is that without CCTV footage of the full confrontation that the accusation is somewhat empty...  

 

I do not buy into the story that the Thai lady politely asked the Russian to take off her shoes and the Russian refused and immediately became abusive and went into attack mode...     There's always more to these stories. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JemJem]

3 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

Another one

 

It is going from bad to worse. All these incidents will sadly surely make things difficult for us foreigners in some ways. 

[Liverpool Lou]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Where is the full CCTV footage... surely that would be widely available if it really did show the Russian woman kicking the pregnant Thai lady....

The world does not revolve around Asean Now, just because CCTV hasn't been made available to us gobsh!tes doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, AN is not a prosecutors office or a court.

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

17 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You mentioned the 'Russian bird assaulter'....    There is no proof of assault... so your bias has shown through.

Giving credence to a published report that indicates nothing false about it is not bias.

 

Fair enough... Your credence to the veracity of Thai and social media information is no different to my cynicism of it. 

 

We have information reported....  While I'm sure an 'incident occurred'...   I question the accuracy of the story and suspect that it has been presented with a degree of bias I am cynical of. 

 

 

The biggest hole I see in the story: 

- There is a photo from CCTV footage. 

- There is no video of the Russian attacking anyone.

 

IF there is CCTV footage, then why is the attack not show... earlier you posted an unintelligent comment that its not up to the victim to please the AN readership...   thats missing the point that whenever present... the CCTV footage is the first thing we usually see, so why not in this case.... this makes me even more cynical.

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

21 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Where is the full CCTV footage... surely that would be widely available if it really did show the Russian woman kicking the pregnant Thai lady....

The world does not revolve around Asean Now, just because CCTV hasn't been made available to us gobsh!tes doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, AN is not a prosecutors office or a court.

 

A bit silly that LL.......      Forget about Aseannow - you are thinking too small...   Why is CCTV not available for the media in general ????

 

Whenever CCTV is available, its nearly always the first thing we see as when full footage of an incident is shown it removes all doubt....   

 

 

 

IF there were CCTV footage showing the Russian kicking the Thai lady it would be all over the media by now...  I suspect is isn't because the CCTV shows a different story than the one we have been fed. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Do you really think its unreasonable to want to see evidence (CCTV footage) before passing judgement ?

Do you really think that you're in any position to be entitled to her CCTV footage, or to think that such expectation is reasonable, never mind be in a position to "pass judgement"?   

[Liverpool Lou]

17 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

but I just do not blindly believe the story presented by social media and Thai media when it is so absent of any fact.

"...it is so absent of any fact".

How do you know that?  That is just your opinion, and, just because it is your interpretation, that doesn't make it "absent of any fact"!

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Do you really think its unreasonable to want to see evidence (CCTV footage) before passing judgement ?

Do you really think that you're in any position to be entitled to her CCTV footage, or to think that such expectation is reasonable, never mind be in a position to "pass judgement"?   

 

Yes I do...      not from a personal perspective... But from the perspective of the general public. 

 

This is not a private accusation, but one which has been made very public.

 

It is not abnormal by any stretch for such information (CCTV) to be distributed throughout the media....  infact, the distrubution of CCTV footage is common in such examples, leading to the question of why is it held back in this situation ???

 

 

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Do you really think its unreasonable to doubt the accusation when there is no evidence yet CCTV was clearly running ?????

Yes.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"...it is so absent of any fact".

How do you know that?  That is just your opinion, and, just because it is your interpretation, that doesn't make it "absent of any fact"!

 

A media report and an accusation is not fact because its in writing...   you forget that.

 

This is just an accusation for now... nothing seems to back up that accusation at the moment. 

[n00dle]

3 hours ago, Dolf said:

Daily reports of farang dirtbags.

Its almost as if there were a concerted media campaign to stir up anti-foreign sentiment based on the activity of a few outliers. 

[Liverpool Lou]

25 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

31 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You know that they don't care, yes?

if they dont care why do they say remove shoes. cmon transam surely you can join forces with Lou for this one

It's that they don't care about your not shopping there, they don't need you!

[Liverpool Lou]

22 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

earlier you posted an unintelligent comment

That's just your, some would say, unintelligent opinion, it is not factual.  Why do you now have to resort to (unintelligent) insults?

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It's that they don't care about your not shopping there, they don't need you!

 

I'm not so confident of that either...    

 

In some cases, the surly nature of shop assistants is just that... there is an inner resentment towards foreigners and tourists in general. 

 

This was discussed in another thread about Phuket - a lot of examples of the Thai's in Phuket (and tourist hubs) being surly towards tourists (Thai and foreign tourists)...   

... this same 'trait' can be picked up in a lot of area's of high tourist footfall where the interaction between 'working Thais' and foreginers does match the polite, smiley, happy go lucky interaction we encounter elsewhere as the attitudes of people in those area's have been tainted by rude and impolite individuals who have trodden before us. 

 

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

21 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"...it is so absent of any fact".

How do you know that?  That is just your opinion, and, just because it is your interpretation, that doesn't make it "absent of any fact"!

 

A media report and an accusation is not fact because its in writing...   you forget that.

Neither is it untrue...don't forget that.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

28 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

earlier you posted an unintelligent comment

That's just your, some would say, unintelligent opinion, it is not factual.  Why do you now have to resort to (unintelligent) insults?

 

No, I haven't insulted you as being unintelligent, given our interaction and debate in the past, while we commonly disagree for various reasons, your intelligence is not brought into question. 

 

I was surprised to see you relying on a comment of flawed intelligence... thats all...

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

23 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"...it is so absent of any fact".

How do you know that?  That is just your opinion, and, just because it is your interpretation, that doesn't make it "absent of any fact"!

 

A media report and an accusation is not fact because its in writing...   you forget that.

Neither is it untrue...don't forget that.

 

100% agree...          the report could equally be completely factual and exactly as reported....

 

But, as I've mentioned, I am skeptical and the media reports 'seem' one sided....     

I am even more cynical when there is clearly a photo taken from a CCVT screen, but no CCVT video circulated. 

 

This leads me to suspect that the CCTV video would present information in a different light - thats just my cynicism, but I think that cynicism is fair in this example. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rimmer]

A flame has been removed

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

Frits...  You're a fool if you blindly believe every story you are reading now in Thai and social media.... 

 

 

It is often said... there are three sides to every story...   "What he said, What she said, and the truth"...    with all many of these 'farang behaving badly' stories circulating in the media right now, we are seeing very one sided reports....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't believe every story, am fully aware there are 2 sides to a story but don't have the need to read fiction.

[NativeBob]

May I add that generally locals at Phangan (and Samui as well) belong to some tribe called "Sea Gypsy" mixed with jungle people of Deep North. Quite explosive mixture, as my colleague told me - she run travel agency at Samui. She said they are very different from mainland Thais, very superstitious and "uber-thin skin" type.

Just accept the point that running papa-mama shop at Phangan requires certain toughness and you can imagine what happened when curious blond wondered into that shop. Obviously that woman dreamed about "shaking" some $ from dumb blond chick. Happens all the time )

PS: Hey, where is CCTV footage?

[Gottfrid]

4 hours ago, 2long said:

How do we know the language was abusive? Sometimes I listen to Chinese people (who maybe discussing what to have for lunch) and to me it sounds like they're about to kill each other.

 

Is this the next episode of the anti-farang agenda?

 

But if true, this is disgusting behaviour.

It never occurred to you, that the Russian women maybe has been yelling in English?

[richard_smith237]

39 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

I don't believe every story, am fully aware there are 2 sides to a story but don't have the need to read fiction.

 

Yet you have dichotomised the issue...    as Media reports correct... anything else fiction. 

 

When the CCTV footage is not being presented... and there is no evidence of the Russian kicking the Thai woman...   how are you so firm in your belief or acceptance that the Social and Thai media version of events is not also fiction, exaggerated or stretched to the point of fabrication?

 

 

At the moment we have one photo take from CCTV footage of a woman in a shop with sandals on. 

 

Until I see a footage or a picture of the Russian woman 'kicking out'... I'm going to view the social and Thai media comments with cynicism, and certainly not as fact. 

 

 

 

 

 

[NativeBob]

1 minute ago, Gottfrid said:

It never occurred to you, that the Russian women maybe has been yelling in English?

>>> also in Hebrew, Malay and Swahili.
What if thai "lady" was a former student of Moscow State University's faculty of Russian Literature and she used to read "War and Peace" in original?

No limits for imagination indeed.
It's getting entertaining )

[Ben Zioner]

3 hours ago, Goat said:

How woke you are.

Farang isnt a racist term. As the word Caucasian isnt racist. Only to the sensitive woke types.

And considering your user name it is a bit rich for you to be claiming that.

Well dunno who you are, or what your education level is. But I am an Ashkenazi Jew, just like Einstein and many most of the western great minds were was, hence Caucasian. Stating flatly that "Farang"  coming from a Thai isn't racist while "N..." would be is just plain idiocy. End of story.

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

It never occurred to you, that the Russian women maybe has been yelling in English?

 

As most 'communication' is non-verbal....  I think its pretty easy to identify when someone is being verbally abusive in any language. 

 

In this case, I wonder how abuse the Thai woman was and how abusive the Russian woman was in response ?

 

 

i.e.

- Did the Thai shopkeeper politely ask the Russian to remove her sandals and the Russian went ballistic.. (really ????)

- Did the Thai shopkeeper rudely tell Russian to remove her sandals and the Russian returned the abuse and the Russian got physical ?

- Did the Thai shopkeeper rudely tell Russian to remove her sandals and the Russian returned the abuse and the Thai lady got physical and the Russian retaliated ?

- Did the Thai shopkeeper simply tell Russian to get out of her shop and thee Russian got physical ?

- Did the Thai shopkeeper tell Russian to get out, became abusive and physical and the Russian retaliated ?

 

 

There are a lot of potential scenarios based on the original story...     the CCTV would clear up a lot of things. 

 

 

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

100% agree...   TVF / AN is not a court of law... Which is why we have the luxury of discussion and opinion. 

 

My opinion (for the moment) is that without CCTV footage of the full confrontation that the accusation is somewhat empty...  

 

I do not buy into the story that the Thai lady politely asked the Russian to take off her shoes and the Russian refused and immediately became abusive and went into attack mode...     There's always more to these stories. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So far, the Swiss doctor kicker story looks to have been accurate. So, too, the Swiss grocery store assaulter.  Now, we have the two New Zealanders and the Russian woman. At least as things stand, the Thai media record is pretty much accurate and intact. The spitting motorcyclist/skateboarder/would be assaulter is the only one I haven't seen an update on.

[richard_smith237]

30 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

PS: Hey, where is CCTV footage?

 

Exactly...

 

Given that CCTV is nearly always shown when available after an event has occurred... It strikes me as suspicious that the CCTV has not been circulated in this case when its clear CCTV footage exists (from the photos).

 

Either....

- The CCTV footage lacks coverage. 

- The CCTV footage tells a different story.

 

I can't think of a single reason the CCTV footage would be held back if it shows the full events as they have been reported. 

[brianthainess]

4 hours ago, jvs said:

No she looks like a foreigner,probably the russian woman who assaulted the Thai lady.

 

Yes wearing shoes would be a good lead on who it is. init.

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

So far, the Swiss doctor kicker story looks to have been accurate. So, too, the Swiss grocery store assaulter.  Now, we have the two New Zealanders and the Russian woman. At least as things stand, the Thai media record is pretty much accurate and intact. The spitting motorcyclist/skateboarder/would be assaulter is the only one I haven't seen an update on.

 

The Swiss steps and Swiss Store assaulter were more clear cut... 

 

There is potentially 'more to the story' in the case of the NZ Guys and Russian woman...   

It seems more evident that we are not getting the full story here.