Russian tourist on Pha-ngan Island accused of kicking Thai pregnant woman

FritsSikkink · March 19

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Yet you have dichotomised the issue... as Media reports correct... anything else fiction.

When the CCTV footage is not being presented... and there is no evidence of the Russian kicking the Thai woman... how are you so firm in your belief or acceptance that the Social and Thai media version of events is not also fiction, exaggerated or stretched to the point of fabrication?

At the moment we have one photo take from CCTV footage of a woman in a shop with sandals on.

Until I see a footage or a picture of the Russian woman 'kicking out'... I'm going to view the social and Thai media comments with cynicism, and certainly not as fact.

You are right in this case. The NZ guys is a different story.

Tropicalevo · March 19

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

My opinion (for the moment) is that without CCTV footage of the full confrontation that the accusation is somewhat empty...

The CCTV footage has been presented to the police. Not to AN readers.

From the article in The Thaiger

Quote

Subsequently, the Russian woman left the shop without offering any apologies. Ploy then complained to Koh Pha Ngan Police Station, providing CCTV footage of the incident as evidence.

transam · March 19

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Exactly...

Given that CCTV is nearly always shown when available after an event has occurred... It strikes me as suspicious that the CCTV has not been circulated in this case when its clear CCTV footage exists (from the photos).

Either....

- The CCTV footage lacks coverage.

- The CCTV footage tells a different story.

I can't think of a single reason the CCTV footage would be held back if it shows the full events as they have been reported.

Perhaps the police have seen the CCTV footage and have issued the 2 photos from it to identify the assaulter, the police are probably very sorry it's not been issued for the AN budding Sherlock Holmes......😋........😂

brianthainess · March 19

I always look outside to see if shoes are there, it is only polite to remove them to stop all the crap off your shoes soiling there floor with dust ETC.

But that is the way I was brought up in the UK, we were never allowed to wear shoes in our house.

richard_smith237 · March 19

Just now, Tropicalevo said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

My opinion (for the moment) is that without CCTV footage of the full confrontation that the accusation is somewhat empty...

The CCTV footage has been presented to the police. Not to AN readers.

From the article in The Thaiger

Quote

Subsequently, the Russian woman left the shop without offering any apologies. Ploy then complained to Koh Pha Ngan Police Station, providing CCTV footage of the incident as evidence.

Yep... and 'usually' when CCTV footage is damning, its leaked very quickly and spreads through the media.

So.. why has the CCTV footage not been leaked ???

Could it be because it does not show anything damning ?

-------

Separate point: but both you and Liverpool Lou are taking the perspective of "why should the CCTV footage be released to the AN sleuths".... that is broken logic... This is nothing to do with AN other than we are discussion the issue on this forum, there are other discussions else where going on too.. Amongst Thai's on Thai forums, in Thai social medial, in western language Social medial across Thailand...

Thus: This question of "why has no CCTV footage been released?" is not specific to AN, but is a wider question that goes well beyond AN.

transam · March 19

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

Yep... and 'usually' when CCTV footage is damning, its leaked very quickly and spreads through the media.

So.. why has the CCTV footage not been leaked ???

Could it be because it does not show anything damning ?

-------

Separate point: but both you and Liverpool Lou are taking the perspective of "why should the CCTV footage be released to the AN sleuths".... that is broken logic... This is nothing to do with AN other than we are discussion the issue on this forum, there are other discussions else where going on too.. Amongst Thai's on Thai forums, in Thai social medial, in western language Social medial across Thailand...

Thus: This question of "why has no CCTV footage been released?" is not specific to AN, but is a wider question that goes well beyond AN.

Be patient, to most, the story is not that important...........😉

richard_smith237 · March 19

3 minutes ago, transam said:

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Exactly...

Given that CCTV is nearly always shown when available after an event has occurred... It strikes me as suspicious that the CCTV has not been circulated in this case when its clear CCTV footage exists (from the photos).

Either....

- The CCTV footage lacks coverage.

- The CCTV footage tells a different story.

I can't think of a single reason the CCTV footage would be held back if it shows the full events as they have been reported.

Expand

Perhaps the police have seen the CCTV footage and have issued the 2 photos from it to identify the assaulter, the police are probably very sorry it's not been issued for the AN budding Sherlock Holmes......😋........😂

Then why did they not issue a photo of the CCTV of a woman actually 'kicking out' ???

I can only assume that there is no such footage and existing CCTV does not show anything at all.

-------

I addressed point specific to AN in the post above - it surprises me that you are also taking this tactic and have not recongised the bigger picture that this question is bigger than specifically AseanNow readership... why has CCTV not been released / leaked to the public in general ???...

The answer is that it can't be, for legal reasons - but that has never stopped anyone before.

Or... the CCTV does not show anything because the accusation is fabricated.

Or... the CCTV is poorly positioned and doesn't show anything anyway.

NONG CHOK · March 19

3 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

Removing footwear is the norm in Thailand. Far from stupid - I think that it is a great idea. Beats walking dirt, dog poo, whatever all over the place.

Maybe the lady lives in a shophouse? We do not know. It could also be her home.

The victim is the owner of the shop. Forget your western approach of 'it's the law'. No work - no dosh.

Easily fixed just move to another shop where you're welcome shoes or not. I must say many of the current Russians in the Naklua area are easily the rudest people I've come across living in that area for the past 22 years.

NativeBob · March 19

cctv equipment is dirt cheap nowadays. Used to be some sort of luxury back in the beginning of this century, yet few funky hotel GM in Pattaya had them installed in rooms. Hidden, I don't know why. Perhaps for profit or personal entertainment? However:

it is impossible NOT TO HAVE CCTV in the tourist area shop. It is the very efficient evidence of any sort of shoplifting, damaging goods etc.

Andre0720 · March 19

4 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Well, I hear the Fa.. word all then time while I am not supposed to use the N. word? My conclusion is that no one is more racist than the Thais.

Ni**er is a very derogotary word. Farang is not...

kidneyw · March 19

4 hours ago, jvs said:

No she looks like a foreigner,probably the russian woman who assaulted the Thai lady.

Wearing shoes should give you a hint.

richard_smith237 · March 19

Just now, transam said:

Be patient, to most, the story is not that important...........😉

Its a discussion point thats...

But, the manner in which the temperature appears to be altering and the manner in which social media is taking over the punitive process is potentially worrying...

... Particularly as we seem to have some sort of "Stockholm syndrome' going on whereby any 'negative report or accusation' against a foreigner is even taken as fact with a strong 'hang em high' response even in light of a significant absense of balanced information from both sides...

A lot of the forum is siding with incomplete information and completely buying into the media rhetoric without critical thought.

For many, they're stupid, so that can be expected, but for others its surprising that they are buying these reports when clear facts are so thin on the ground and information which could be available is clearly missing.

Tropicalevo · March 19

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I can only assume that there is no such footage and existing CCTV does not show anything at all.

Assume makes and ASS out of U and ME

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

why has CCTV not been released / leaked to the public in general ???...

How do you know that it hasn't?

Have you checked the police sites?

Have you checked the victim's Fakebook and other social media sites?

transam · March 19

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

Then why did they not issue a photo of the CCTV of a woman actually 'kicking out' ???

I can only assume that there is no such footage and existing CCTV does not show anything at all.

-------

I addressed point specific to AN in the post above - it surprises me that you are also taking this tactic and have not recongised the bigger picture that this question is bigger than specifically AseanNow readership... why has CCTV not been released / leaked to the public in general ???...

The answer is that it can't be, for legal reasons - but that has never stopped anyone before.

Or... the CCTV does not show anything because the accusation is fabricated.

Or... the CCTV is poorly positioned and doesn't show anything anyway.

Sorry, but, you seem to be making a mountain out of a mole hill, let's wait and see what transpires, early days yet....🤗

Though it would seem you are pointing a finger at the complainant, as to making a false claim, because YOU haven't been shown the CCTV footage and should have been informed......I find that rather disappointing.........😏

Tropicalevo · March 19

1 minute ago, Andre0720 said:

Ni**er is a very derogotary word. Farang is not...

Not to Thais. Neither are.

richard_smith237 · March 19

1 minute ago, transam said:

Sorry, but, you seem to be making a mountain out of a mole hill, let's wait and see what transpires, early days yet....🤗

I disagree... I'm stating that there may not be any mountain at all...

1 minute ago, transam said:

Though it would seem you are pointing a finger at the complainant, as to making a false claim, because YOU haven't been shown the CCTV footage and should have been informed......I find that rather disappointing.........😏

No.. my cynicism has nothing to do with me personally not being shown CCTV footage, you are projecting and making this personal - its not about what I have or haven't seen...

.... its about what information is being made available to the public in general.

The public (all of us) have been fed a horrible story of a Russian Woman attacking a pregnant Thai woman... Just one photo taken from CCTV exists, and that photo does not show anything damning...

I am of the opinion that IF there were damning CCTV evidence, we'd have seen it and thus, with the absense of anything solid, this is just an angry woman making an accusation... and that I point my cynicism at.

I find it rather disappointing that so many people are ready to take any side at all..... there needs to be better evidence before any of us can pass judgement against the Thai or Russian woman.

transam · March 19

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

I disagree... I'm stating that there may not be any mountain at all...

No.. my cynicism has nothing to do with me personally not being shown CCTV footage, you are projecting and making this personal - its not about what I have or haven't seen...

.... its about what information is being made available to the public in general.

The public (all of us) have been fed a horrible story of a Russian Woman attacking a pregnant Thai woman... Just one photo taken from CCTV exists, and that photo does not show anything damning...

I am of the opinion that IF there were damning CCTV evidence, we'd have seen it and thus, with the absense of anything solid, this is just an angry woman making an accusation... and that I point my cynicism at.

I find it rather disappointing that so many people are ready to take any side at all..... there needs to be better evidence before any of us can pass judgement against the Thai or Russian woman.

I never saw "Horrible" mentioned..............Hmmmm...🙄

And you seem to think you should be given all the info NOW, instead of waiting for the next bit of PUBLIC info..... :whistling:

Liverpool Lou · March 19

43 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

just like Einstein and many most of the western great minds were was,

Looks as though you're over-flattering yourself with that categorising!... "many most" ... were was"?

2long · March 19

55 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

It never occurred to you, that the Russian women maybe has been yelling in English?

All I'm saying is, that neither of the people in the incident are native English speakers (or listeners) and none of us here on this forum were there at the time. Therefore, there's no proof about which words were said and in which context.

Don't get me wrong, I'm confident that the Russian is at fault, as would anyone kicking a clearly-pregnant woman. I'm just trying to point out some potential flaws in the story.

richard_smith237 · March 19

13 minutes ago, transam said:

I never saw "Horrible" mentioned..............Hmmmm...🙄

And you seem to think you should be given all the info NOW, instead of waiting for the next bit of PUBLIC info.....

I wrote that this is a 'horrible story'.... its not a nice story is it ??? its a horrible story... someone kicking a pregnant woman.

You are letting your foot off the clutch too early and stalling as you are missing the comprehension of my underlying points Trans, as just highlighed above.

We cannot be making any judgement until we have more information... but, a lot of people have already passed judgement and condemned the Russian woman.

We've been fed partial information, its also clear where information is missing..... thats where my cynicism exists.

richard_smith237 · March 19

22 minutes ago, 2long said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm confident that the Russian is at fault, as would anyone kicking a clearly-pregnant woman.

Where did you see the Russian woman 'clearly kicking a pregnant woman' ???

I'm confident there was a confrontation.... that confrontation potentially became physical.

I'm not so confident one party is solely to blame while the other is a picture of innocence.

22 minutes ago, 2long said:

I'm just trying to point out some potential flaws in the story.

Agree with this... At the moment there is only the accusation and nothing more really.

transam · March 19

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

I wrote that this is a 'horrible story'.... its not a nice story is it ??? its a horrible story... someone kicking a pregnant woman.

You are letting your foot off the clutch too early and stalling as you are missing the comprehension of my underlying points Trans, as just highlighed above.

We cannot be making any judgement until we have more information... but, a lot of people have already passed judgement and condemned the Russian woman.

We've been fed partial information, its also clear where information is missing..... thats where my cynicism exists.

Don't blame your "horrible" on me, chum, you escalated to horrible for us to read..........🤗

I haven't passed any judgement because we have not been given enough info, but the fact remains, a police investigation has started for the plaintive, fact....

Your posts have been implying its a set-up, the only reason you are getting replies from me is, I think you are jumping the gun.

I look forward to watching YouTube tonight, usually has the latest on naughty farangy's....😉

Mr Meeseeks · March 19

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Are we getting to the stage where any altercation or negative interaction between a foreigner and a Thai is going to lead to an exaggerated accusation and subsequent social media which-hunt ???

We're already there.

Rampant Rabbit · March 19

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It's that they don't care about your not shopping there, they don't need you!

you make it too easy for me🤣

Mr Meeseeks · March 19

54 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its a discussion point thats...

But, the manner in which the temperature appears to be altering and the manner in which social media is taking over the punitive process is potentially worrying...

... Particularly as we seem to have some sort of "Stockholm syndrome' going on whereby any 'negative report or accusation' against a foreigner is even taken as fact with a strong 'hang em high' response even in light of a significant absense of balanced information from both sides...

A lot of the forum is siding with incomplete information and completely buying into the media rhetoric without critical thought.

For many, they're stupid, so that can be expected, but for others its surprising that they are buying these reports when clear facts are so thin on the ground and information which could be available is clearly missing.

Great post.

Just as I have been saying since Swissman David was being made an example of and was rounded on by many on here.

richard_smith237 · March 19

7 minutes ago, transam said:

Don't blame your "horrible" on me, chum, you escalated to horrible for us to read..........🤗

Erm.... ok... its not a positive story.... happy with that ?

7 minutes ago, transam said:

I haven't passed any judgement because we have not been given enough info, but the fact remains, a police investigation has started for the plaintive, fact....

Agreed... Do you think we be seeing any further result of this 'investigation' ???

7 minutes ago, transam said:

Your posts have been implying its a set-up, the only reason you are getting replies from me is, I think you are jumping the gun.

I look forward to watching YouTube tonight, usually has the latest on naughty farangy's....😉

You've misunderstood again... I haven't implied its a set-up... I have implied that there are multiple possible scenarios, one of which is that the story is a fabrication....

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

- Did the Thai shopkeeper politely ask the Russian to remove her sandals and the Russian went ballistic.. (really ????)

- Did the Thai shopkeeper rudely tell Russian to remove her sandals and the Russian returned the abuse and the Russian got physical ?

- Did the Thai shopkeeper rudely tell Russian to remove her sandals and the Russian returned the abuse and the Thai lady got physical and the Russian retaliated ?

- Did the Thai shopkeeper simply tell Russian to get out of her shop and thee Russian got physical ?

- Did the Thai shopkeeper tell Russian to get out, became abusive and physical and the Russian retaliated ?

There are a lot of potential scenarios based on the original story... the CCTV would clear up a lot of things.

NoDisplayName · March 19

From the Thaiger:

Quote

The Thai victim, known only as Ploy, shared pictures of the Russian woman with blonde hair on a Facebook group called Facebook Koh Pha Ngan

Later, Ploy discovered the Russian woman’s Instagram account and shared it in the group.

Maybe not such a clever Ploy!

Now the abused Russian victim can sue the shopowner for defamation.

transam · March 19

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Erm.... ok... its not a positive story.... happy with that ?

Agreed... Do you think we be seeing any further result of this 'investigation' ???

You've misunderstood again... I haven't implied its a set-up... I have implied that there are multiple possible scenarios, one of which is that the story is a fabrication....

If I find out anything new tonight, I will let you know tomorrow................😋

Though I hope the plaintiff lady doesn't read here..............😂

transam · March 19

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

From the Thaiger:

Maybe not such a clever Ploy!

Now the abused Russian victim can sue the shopowner for defamation.

Doubt it........ :coffee1:

NoDisplayName · March 19

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Doubt it........

Section 326. Defamation

Whoever, imputes anything to the other person before a third person in a manner likely to impair the reputation of such other person or to expose such other person to be hated or scorned, is said to commit defamation, and shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year or fined not exceeding twenty thousand Baht, or both.

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