Fined 1600 baht for not reporting TM30 (same address)

[cardinalblue]

TM 30 enforcement is determined by individual immigration offices so it's your job to find out how they are handling it...

 

[steve187]

9 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Would this be another good reason to have a legit agent?

no

[proton]

9 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Would this be another good reason to have a legit agent?

There are no legit agents, none are regulated or need qualifications, anyone can call themselves an agent. There are no professional standards, procedures or avenues of complaint. 

[proton]

28 minutes ago, cardinalblue said:

TM 30 enforcement is determined by individual immigration offices so it's your job to find out how they are handling it...

 

 

No, it's their job to follow their own laws, not make them up

[Pattaya57]

16 minutes ago, proton said:

 

No, it's their job to follow their own laws, not make them up

Well in the case of the OP they did follow the laws. OP left Thailand and came back on a visa exempt entry, so is the same as a brand new tourist. New TM30 was required and he didn't get one, so was fined as per the law.

 

Edited July 19 by Pattaya57

[Maestro]

3 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

I'd say that was unlikely...

 

Why do say that it was unlikely?

 

Anyway, I'd still like to know the fact and it will be easy for @decline, to whom I addressed my question, to give this information. No need for guessing or speculation by other members.

 

[1FinickyOne]

4 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

Yes , if one is incapable

Incapable? Or maybe just doesn't want to be bothered and is willing to pay a price dor that service?

[1FinickyOne]

31 minutes ago, proton said:

There are no legit agents, none are regulated or need qualifications, anyone can call themselves an agent. There are no professional standards, procedures or avenues of complaint. 

All of what you say may be correct - - except for the fact that there are legit agents too... I have a great agent who has been filling out all paperwork for me for over a decade -  - terrific service for a reasonable price... 

[ujayujay]

10 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Would this be another good reason to have a legit agent?

In 17 years I saved about 500k Baht by avoiding agents. It is so easy to handle visa and other matters yourself

[NorthernRyland]

7 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Your IO is wrong.

The deeper question we all must ask ourselves, how can you be wrong or right in a country with no clear rules? I didn't file for many years and it only mattered when the IO decided it did. If they decide again it's not needed I'll stop filing. 

 

So the answer seems to be do nothing unless the IO says otherwise, and always do what they say regardless of the so-called "rules". TIT.

[Jumbo1968]

9 minutes ago, ujayujay said:

In 17 years I saved about 500k Baht by avoiding agents. It is so easy to handle visa and other matters yourself

If I had took the documents the owner gave me to Immigration I wouldn’t have got a TM30, the agent ‘smoothed’ it out for me well worth the 500 baht fee.

[Lorry]

13 hours ago, GypsyT said:

There's nothing confusing, just play the game;

 

When you arrive go to hotel for 1 nite and get a paper copy of TM30 (keep it in case they ask it later).

When you need extension go to same hotel for 1 nite and get a paper copy. No problems.

- That way it looks you've stayed there 30 days....

 

 

Then he can just pay 1600 fine.

Maybe a little bit more than 2 nights in a hotel,  but easier. 

[NoshowJones]

21 hours ago, decline said:

Is this a new rule?

 

Left the country to do a visa run and returned to the same address.

 

I didn’t think a new TM30 was needed. First time in 7 years this has happened.

Did you pay it? I wouldn't have. I asked the same question with my wife as a witness, you have just been unlucky with an IO making up it's own rules

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

In CNX I saw this type of "enforcement" a few times.  The worst case was an American Family of 4 who was renting a house owned by a foreinger.  Guess what?  TM-30 was not updated or even entered.  Anyway the foreign landlord never responded from the renters.  In order to extend the visa's of the 4 family members CNX Immigration fines had to be paid.  So the family had to pay 6400 Baht(yes 1600X 4) to immigration just to extend for 30 deys.  Based upon what i know TM-30 enforcement is supposed to be against the landlord and not the tenant.  But TIT: "somebody has to pay the fine".  

 

The one word I rarely see in play in LOS is: Consistentcy.  In the 1600 Baht is not a huge amount for most of foreigners so I guess one must pay it and move on. I am not surprised at what happened to decline. 

Don't be a member of the "scared of your own shadow" brigade. If you are 100% sure you are right stand your ground. I have done this on two occasions and the boss took my side both times.

[Expat68]

5 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

Did you pay it? I wouldn't have. I asked the same question with my wife as a witness, you have just been unlucky with an IO making up it's own rules

I went to Vietnam 8 years ago and had to fill in a new house notification form. Talking to a man yesterday, his visa application was rejected because he had not filled a new one in when he moved province

[moe666]

17 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

TM30 has to be done by householder/ landlord. It's not up to the tenant to do it.

It is not up to the tenant tell that to immigration when your landlord doesn't do it

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

I went to Vietnam 8 years ago and had to fill in a new house notification form. Talking to a man yesterday, his visa application was rejected because he had not filled a new one in when he moved province

The rules pertaining to TM30 requirements changed in 2020.

If you change your address (as per your friend) you are required to file a TM30. 

[1FinickyOne]

10 hours ago, ujayujay said:

In 17 years I saved about 500k Baht by avoiding agents. It is so easy to handle visa and other matters yourself

in 17 years I would be under 100k baht... though I haven't used them that long - they just do my paperwork, they do not put up money in the bank for me... just legit stuff. I did my own for many years and am happy not to have more paperwork... they make my life easy. 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The rules pertaining to TM30 requirements changed in 2020.

If you change your address (as per your friend) you are required to file a TM30. 

I thought that was TM28.

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I thought that was TM28.

Replaced by TM30 for change of address 

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, ujayujay said:

In 17 years I saved about 500k Baht by avoiding agents. It is so easy to handle visa and other matters yourself

In Chiang Mai I had to arrive at 4 am to be sure of getting in the q, and then the rules kept changing every year. An agent made the process painless- well worth the money.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Replaced by TM30 for change of address 

Thanks for that. I once tried to do a TM 28 change of address, but the IO didn't know what one was. I ended up not bothering.

[IvorBiggun2]

13 minutes ago, moe666 said:

It is not up to the tenant tell that to immigration when your landlord doesn't do it

The IO knows darn well that trying to get a Thai to pay a fine, or come into an IO to pay the fine, is nigh on impossible. Hence why they started collecting the fine from farangs about 5 years ago. In all IO they have their rule book. Ask to see the part where it says 'farangs responsibility to pay'.

Edited July 20 by IvorBiggun2

[JimTripper]

19 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

My house owner refused to do a TM30, I asked him for documentation so I could do it myself, he gave me the wrong documentation. I asked for the correct ones and he gave me 2 months to leave, I didn’t pay the rent for the last 2 months as that was my deposit, he never questioned that.

obvioulsy there was a reason why he didn’t want to do a TM30 even if it meant losing a good tenant of 3 years.

Yeah, I think there is more to it then landlord laziness. If they always get the passport info and contracts just right, why not do a TM30 as well?

 

I know a guesthouse owner who only does them when asked. I think it puts the landlord at risk of scrutiny when they are done. Like in the computer system they can check and see where they were missed in the past for other people and issue a back fine for each one. For a guesthouse owner that could be catastrophic. Anyhow, this guy is me·tic·u·lous and he does not want to do them unless asked.

Edited July 20 by JimTripper

[Pattaya57]

56 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

Did you pay it? I wouldn't have. I asked the same question with my wife as a witness, you have just been unlucky with an IO making up it's own rules

OP was fined because he entered on visa exempt and didn't do a TM30 so what valid reason do you think he didn't have to pay the fine?

 

Also if you don't pay the fine you don't get the service requested, in this case I guess he was looking for an extension to his visa exempt, so he'd have to leave the country if he chose not to pay

 

Edited July 20 by Pattaya57

[Jumbo1968]

39 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

The IO knows darn well that trying to get a Thai to pay a fine, or come into an IO to pay the fine, is nigh on impossible. Hence why they started collecting the fine from farangs about 5 years ago. In all IO they have their rule book. Ask to see the part where it says 'farangs responsibility to pay'.

The TM30 notification and its underlying laws are about the obligation of a landlord (housemaster, possessor, or manager) to report the stay of a foreigner (non-Thai national) in his/her property.

[JimTripper]

32 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

OP was fined because he entered on visa exempt and didn't do a TM30 so what valid reason do you think he didn't have to pay the fine?

That's easy. They could not get the documents needed from the landlord.

[DrJack54]

57 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

That's easy. They could not get the documents needed from the landlord.

As has been stated MANY times in various threads.... always check with owner that a TM30 will be provided prior to renting. 

 

Note: this is from your post early this year in relation to TM30.

"Get copies of everything before you sign a lease. If it's not provided, go elsewhere."

[IvorBiggun2]

 

Quote

 

 TM30 Online

Dear All,

Please be informed that the Notification of residence for foreigners (TM30) will undergo maintenance and will undergo maintenance and will be temporarily unavailable for foreigners to report residence from July 21, 2024, 09:00 AM (GMT+7) to July 22, 2024 09:00 AM (GMT+7).

During this period, you can report your residence by:
1. Self-declaration at the local Immigration Bureau office during business hours.
2. Reporting by registered mail at the Post Office.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused.

 

https://tm30.immigration.go.th/tm30api/loginExternal.jsp?value=EXT&id=a427d014f79344ed0ad3eb2d54e8fcf9&fl=N

---

[GypsyT]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

In all IO they have their rule book. Ask to see the part where it says 'farangs responsibility to pay'.

Can I come with you?

I need entertainment....