2 hours ago, Celsius said:

This is really great news everyone wins especially Steven Seagal

 

What's he got to do with it.

 

They would do better to monitor peoples bank accounts then, because when someone says they make less than 150,000 baht, but have millions flowing through their account(s) and drive around in a brand new BMW, there might be an issue. There are tons of these people out there playing the system.

The article only refers to Thai "citizens"; I wonder how long it will be before it is extended to Thai "tax residents", 2030 at the latest?

This is tied to "negative income tax", i.e. the poorest people will receive a handout from the government, contingent upon their having made a tax return.  That is quite an incentive to submit a return.  It's also quite an incentive for poor people to vote for Pheu Thai.   (And also an incentive to underdeclare one's income.)  Pheu Thai - the party that keeps on giving.

I just wonder if (as they almost certainly intend) to apply the requirement to make a tax return to non-Thai tax residents, will poor foreigners be able to get a handout, too? I doubt it in the extreme.

I am a farang, cannot be a Thai citizen ! , I have to have a visa to stay. just like a tourist. So cannot see that this applies to me . My Thai wife does not work so unsure if this will affect her

This is going to be fun to watch, assuming it ever gets off the ground (it will but may be more like 10 or 20 years down the track) ...

 

Examples in my Khmer family:

- MIL age approx 81 or 82 (noone knows, least of all her - serfs weren't registered in the day). No education, signs with a thumb print. Income: c52000฿, source: rich Falang SIL

- FIL, age 78, ditto ditto but can sign his name ("Taught by the monks")

- BIL, age 45, totally illiterate but has literate wife who will do the work as necessary

- My b/f age 36, functionally illiterate in Thai. Income: 1-2 million ฿ annually, source: imported by rich Falang b/f.

16 hours ago, JoePai said:

This will go down like a lead balloon 

So my Win-taxi friend will declare all his daily cash transactions and pay his taxes... not a hope in hell..

16 hours ago, motdaeng said:

if this really gets implemented by 2027, then the many retired foreigners living in thailand who knowingly don’t follow the new tax laws (2024) can no longer use the excuse "but most thais also don’t pay taxes ..." and also the saying "the tax authorities will have to come personally to my door before i pay a single baht in taxes ..." maybe won't work anymore ....  

 

 

 

I assume you are one of those mugs who has already declared? 

1 hour ago, lordgrinz said:

They would do better to monitor peoples bank accounts then, because when someone says they make less than 150,000 baht, but have millions flowing through their account(s) and drive around in a brand new BMW, there might be an issue. There are tons of these people out there playing the system.

The Thai government joined the international Common Reporting Standard so all banking information is shared with the government and internationally.  Also Thai banks are required to report accounts that receive over 3000 incoming deposits or over 400 if the total amount is over 2 million baht on an annual basis.  They can very easily see what is happening.  Will they follow up or do they even have enough resources to follow up is another question.

It will be interesting to see if this gets implemented and how it is enforced if it gets implemented.  I know several Thais that do a strictly cash business renting out properties but never file a tax return.  As in the US, I think many of these cash businesses will under report their income.

This is a new low for Thailand. Really sad to see them going down this route after so many of relative freedom. This needs to fail and fail hard.

2 hours ago, thesetat said:

How could this possibly be implemented effectively or even honestly? Most of Thailand is using a cash in hand for their income. Vendors, sex workers, farmers, as well as businesses collect and pay out or get paid using cash in hand. Can you imagine the average sex workers claiming income tax on money made from her working on her back? Or the vendor being honest about their profit selling noodles? I really do not see how this will make any changes except removing those from welfare who do not make enough money to file taxes or those too old to understand what they need to properly fill out their taxes. 

That's the point of moving to cashless society, right? Mobile payments can be tracked.

2 hours ago, thesetat said:

How could this possibly be implemented effectively or even honestly? Most of Thailand is using a cash in hand for their income.

 

They trying to put an end that too with the digital currency. Even some corporations are not accepting cash now. First step to implementing a tax regime in a lawless country like Thailand is making money trackable so that's what they're working on. 

1 hour ago, lordgrinz said:

They would do better to monitor peoples bank accounts then, because when someone says they make less than 150,000 baht, but have millions flowing through their account(s) and drive around in a brand new BMW, there might be an issue. There are tons of these people out there playing the system.

They do have access and I assume monitor that Information already.

Just now, NorthernRyland said:

This is a new low for Thailand. Really sad to see them going down this route after so many of relative freedom. This needs to fail and fail hard.

 

Between this and my personal pet peeve "property taxes", Thailand is heading down a pretty horrible rabbit hole. Property taxes being the worst, as it allows governments to force people off their own property, usually handing it over to the Elite.

1 minute ago, gravity101 said:

They do have access and I assume monitor that Information already.

 

Based on several people I know here, they aren't quite at the enforcement stage yet.

2 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

They would do better to monitor peoples bank accounts then, because when someone says they make less than 150,000 baht, but have millions flowing through their account(s) and drive around in a brand new BMW, there might be an issue. There are tons of these people out there playing the system.

I'm sure you have an idea why screening, without discrimination, everyone bank accounts (incoming transactions) has never been enforced.

16 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Impossible to do, as many people are not registered in the place and address where they live... In my house there are 2 persons registered than doesn't live here, how will they be able to fill in the form?? I don't know where they live so I can't send it to them... First as I wrote several times already must everybody register in the place and address they really live in, before you can do things like this. Besides that there should be a decent register of who owns which property and cars...The idea is good to let everybody fill in a tax form, and it will be a good tool to find corruption, but  as long as there is no decent registration things will fail

I think you'll find that the "data lake" will be filled with information from all the Thai government agencies - including car registration and driving licences -  banks, mobile phone companies and possibly retailers too ( I've just had to give everything short of a DNA sample to Lazada to get a refund).

No data protection laws here.  

13 hours ago, SpaceKadet said:

I'll be OK, I'm not a citizen of this country.

 

Just look at your visa.....It says right on the visa that farangs are NON IMMIGRANTS......We are not Thai citizens....

 

Except for the .0001% of farangs that have Thai citizenship..

Morning news 

Dumb gets even more Dumb🤑!

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Integrity Legal says the plan would include tax resident foreigners as well. (Groan.)

 

This whole tax thing for farangs has already been discussed on countless tax threads here....

 

And all discussions lead back to DTAs which are vastly complicated and they are all different and open to interpretation, hell even the experts cant agree..The Thai tax people have no chance....

 

Also we would be back to seeing investment in Thailand by farangs  falling off a cliff due to being taxed......Good bye home, condo and auto sales.....

 

Any one with half a brain could see taxing farangs would cost Thailand enormous amounts of money for a tea cup full of income taxes....

13 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

every Thai is on a blue book indeed, but doesn't live there actually, Not every Thai is able to use the online forms as many can't even decently read, so impossible to to implement.. If I don't know where the 2 people who are registered in our blue blook live or are, how can the Thai Government know it??? I know people who have 10 or 12 people in their blue book registered and have the same problem. Some only show up when they need an ID card and some never show up like the ones in our.. We know they don't have an ID as they lost it several times...Easy to think that Thais will do everything as they have to... Sorry than you don't know them

Of course they can implement it. 

 

People not resident at the address of their bluebook can be tracked (RD and SocialSecurity both have officers who investigate). They will likely be on a relatives blue book (we have two of my wife's relatives on our blue book that don't live here); RD can pay a visit. They will likely have a phone account, bank account, social security number, etc. There may be some that slip through the gaps, but the majority will be in RD's net. 

 

How will the illiterate do a tax return (online or paper form version)? Same way my mother-in-law and brother-in-law deal with bureaucracy; they go see the phu yai baan in the village for help, or they could go to the local RD in the district for help.

 

Will the thais all do a tax return. That depends on the individual and how the RD will police it. Some in my wife's family would probably do a tax return if they thought they must, others I know wouldn't.

 

I don't know thais you say. In my 4th decade here, married to a thai for 3 decades, familiar with her family in bkk and the rice farmers relatives in their isaan village, I employ thais, i do tax returns and have been to RD office many times. 

 

 

37 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

This whole tax thing for farangs has already been discussed on countless tax threads here....

 

And all discussions lead back to DTAs which are vastly complicated and they are all different and open to interpretation, hell even the experts cant agree..The Thai tax people have no chance....

 

Also we would be back to seeing investment in Thailand by farangs  falling off a cliff due to being taxed......Good bye home, condo and auto sales.....

 

Any one with half a brain could see taxing farangs would cost Thailand enormous amounts of money for a tea cup full of income taxes....

You misunderstand.

The issue of this news is about the requirement of all to file.

Totally separate to whether tax is due or not.

17 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

Yeah, people with a sixth grade education (maybe) are going to file their taxes online. Sure.

They manage to get into welfare programs.

18 hours ago, connda said:

And everyone who rides a motorcycle are required to wear a helmet.  

 

😂😂😂

54 minutes ago, Bredbury Blue said:

Of course they can implement it. 

 

People not resident at the address of their bluebook can be tracked (RD and SocialSecurity both have officers who investigate). They will likely be on a relatives blue book (we have two of my wife's relatives on our blue book that don't live here); RD can pay a visit. They will likely have a phone account, bank account, social security number, etc. There may be some that slip through the gaps, but the majority will be in RD's net. 

 

How will the illiterate do a tax return (online or paper form version)? Same way my mother-in-law and brother-in-law deal with bureaucracy; they go see the phu yai baan in the village for help, or they could go to the local RD in the district for help.

 

Will the thais all do a tax return. That depends on the individual and how the RD will police it. Some in my wife's family would probably do a tax return if they thought they must, others I know wouldn't.

 

I don't know thais you say. In my 4th decade here, married to a thai for 3 decades, familiar with her family in bkk and the rice farmers relatives in their isaan village, I employ thais, i do tax returns and have been to RD office many times. 

 

 

They can implement everything... but enforcing it is another story...I know several people with no ID cards, as it is obliged to have one. I know also people who don't have a bankaccount and only a prepaid telephone with a changing number almost every month. and I know many people with no Social Security numbers... I know a lot of people who drive like crazy, or have blacksmoke fuming car, or not wearing helmets...I know kids driving motorcycles without drivers licenses and helmets as they are only 13 yrs old and nor the parents, the phu yai  baan, or the police or other people have a problem with it and don't do anything, so I just wait when something will happen with them..

Thailand is country that has laws, and many are outdated such as the blue book..People must be registered on the address in the place they are living, why is that so difficult? The people in our blue book are not family but were our foster kids... They had to go to the army but did not want it and so they are unfindable even for us, with no ID, address, bankaccount, or telephonenumber...We have heard they are involved in drugs too, and maybe these are the few that slips through the gaps, but I know others too..As long as there is no decent registration of who is living where and doing what it is impossible to enforce this plan.. People want to have money indeed, but the 2 kids in our blue book, did not apply for the 10k too, as no ID available.. and we could all read that not everybody applied for the 10k for unknown reasons so there are probably more...I live in Thailand for 20 years and as far as I know nothing has updated..I too go every year to the tax department and pay my taxes, We too go to the Phu yai baan for assistance... but the ' normal people will never cause problems, but the ones who slip the gaps... and there for the gaps must be closed first as the gaps are too big 

"According to the National Economic and Social Development Council, only 10.7 million of the 19 million registered workers in 2022 filed tax returns, with a mere 4.2 million earning enough to owe income tax."

 

So a little less than half of the workers are completing Tax Returns and of those about 40% need to pay  tax ?  That could be a substantial amount of money ?

 

I think the Tax Departments biggest headache will be "How do we process 9 million additional tax returns ?"

 

And based on the info published above, 60% will not need to pay?

20 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

According to the National Economic and Social Development Council, only 10.7 million of the 19 million registered workers in 2022 filed tax returns, with a mere 4.2 million earning enough to owe income tax. Concurrently, over 13 million Thais possess state welfare cards, many earning above the eligibility threshold.

Impressive stats on a failed system 

Introduction is one thing, enforcement another. The system cannot enforce the payment of traffic fines so what is the plan to enforce mandatory tax returns let alone the actual payment of taxes due?

In a way it's both fair and about time...